Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 11
 
CRJ5000
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:44 pm

tphuang wrote:
at this point, I can see at least a couple of ULCCs just not taking the grants and furloughing people.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/11/flight- ... ffers.html
So the question is do you take the "free money" that's 30% less than what you initially thought you were going to get in exchange for flying a bunch of routes that you don't want to fly (see the 26 city waiver that NK asked for or the 37 city waiver that F9 asked for) and start furloughing now.

Huge punch in the gut for airline workers imo


Curious why you’d think 30% loans instead of direct grants hurts ULCC’s worse than other carriers and that the ULCC’s are so much more likely to furlough when the legacies have all said they’ll be smaller carriers when this is done -therefore needing less employees.
ULCCs are still running new hire pilot classes... just a guess but their management team probably knows more about their financial prospects than anyone on here. Just because they have a low cost structure doesn’t mean they don’t have a solid management team. They’ve had some of the highest profit margins in the industry over the past decade.

Fairly certain B6 asked for exemption to stop serving 19 airports, as well.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:19 pm

CRJ5000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
at this point, I can see at least a couple of ULCCs just not taking the grants and furloughing people.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/11/flight- ... ffers.html
So the question is do you take the "free money" that's 30% less than what you initially thought you were going to get in exchange for flying a bunch of routes that you don't want to fly (see the 26 city waiver that NK asked for or the 37 city waiver that F9 asked for) and start furloughing now.

Huge punch in the gut for airline workers imo


Curious why you’d think 30% loans instead of direct grants hurts ULCC’s worse than other carriers and that the ULCC’s are so much more likely to furlough when the legacies have all said they’ll be smaller carriers when this is done -therefore needing less employees.
ULCCs are still running new hire pilot classes... just a guess but their management team probably knows more about their financial prospects than anyone on here. Just because they have a low cost structure doesn’t mean they don’t have a solid management team. They’ve had some of the highest profit margins in the industry over the past decade.

Fairly certain B6 asked for exemption to stop serving 19 airports, as well.


So we know that the grant amount is based on the salary obligations for Q2/Q3 of 2019. If you look up cost, you will see that salary obligtions make up a larger portion of legacy expense than ULCC.

Let's compare DL/B6/NK for Q3 off last year.
DL is 2.88 billion out of total expense of 10.49 billion -> 27.5% Keep in mind, it's actually higher than because they spent $900 million on regional carrier expenses also.
if we remove regional expenses.
2.88 billion out of 9.59 -> 30%
B6 is 580 million out of total expense of 1839 million -> 31.5%
NK is 224 million out of total expense of 867 million -> 25.8%

So you can see this grant naturally helps out ULCCs less than other airlines

On top of that, we know that NK scheduled in 90% reduction and F9 scheduled in 95% reduction to their schedule while asking for exemptions. Whereas non-ULCCs have made smaller reductions and it would be less costly for them if the exemptions are not granted.

take a look at this chart
https://twitter.com/WandrMe/status/1248 ... 29/photo/2
you can see the minimum flight obligations for both G4/F9 are higher than B6 despite B6 being a much larger airline and will get more grant money.
NK's minimum flight obligation is not far from B6.

So the minimum schedule requirement hurts ULCCs, especially G4/F9 more than anyone else.

And they already get less grant as proportion of their overall cost.

So the grant will become less appealing to ULCCs before other airlines.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:28 pm

AR operating a repatriation flight from Quito UIO to Buenos Aires EZE. First time AR has landed in an Ecuador airport since 1990.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ARG1911/245a14af

https://twitter.com/ELMICKID/status/1249419084506300417
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
CRJ5000
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
So we know that the grant amount is based on the salary obligations for Q2/Q3 of 2019. If you look up cost, you will see that salary obligtions make up a larger portion of legacy expense than ULCC.

Let's compare DL/B6/NK for Q3 off last year.
DL is 2.88 billion out of total expense of 10.49 billion -> 27.5% Keep in mind, it's actually higher than because they spent $900 million on regional carrier expenses also.
if we remove regional expenses.
2.88 billion out of 9.59 -> 30%
B6 is 580 million out of total expense of 1839 million -> 31.5%
NK is 224 million out of total expense of 867 million -> 25.8%

So you can see this grant naturally helps out ULCCs less than other airlines

On top of that, we know that NK scheduled in 90% reduction and F9 scheduled in 95% reduction to their schedule while asking for exemptions. Whereas non-ULCCs have made smaller reductions and it would be less costly for them if the exemptions are not granted.

take a look at this chart
https://twitter.com/WandrMe/status/1248 ... 29/photo/2
you can see the minimum flight obligations for both G4/F9 are higher than B6 despite B6 being a much larger airline and will get more grant money.
NK's minimum flight obligation is not far from B6.

So the minimum schedule requirement hurts ULCCs, especially G4/F9 more than anyone else.

And they already get less grant as proportion of their overall cost.

So the grant will become less appealing to ULCCs before other airlines.


Well of course the larger airlines are getting more money as they have far higher payrolls. By principle, the CARES act itself negates most of that advantage, as they are obligated to pay them if accepting the money. Yes, they can try voluntary reductions in hours or LOAs, but still the majority of that money will have to go straight to covering payroll. Government has already worked with the ULCCs in changing parts of the cares act, which tells me they will likely be somewhat flexible on exemptions as well. I expect many, but not all of the exemptions to be granted. For the rest, airlines will adjust schedules to comply. I guess we'll probably find out this week.

Since we are in an economic crisis, I think it's fair to look at the 2008 financial crisis/recession as some historical data. In the 5 years after (2007-2012), here is how the industry grew/shrank...
G4 +130%
NK +49
B6 +23
F9 +3
WN +2
SY -7
AA -14
UA -15
AS -15
US -16
FL -16
DL -18

Sourced from DOT review on aviation industry performance...
https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/f ... -24-12.pdf

LCCS/ULCCs thrived and grew. By 2014 NK/G6 had the highest margins in the industry. I'd imagine F9 was there as well, but data isn't available as they are private.

Quote below from another old aviation article put out about 5 years after the last recession -

"The ULCC business model is gaining traction in the US in part because it is proving to be a superior profit generator. Spirit and Allegiant were the two most profitable US airlines in 2014 in terms of operating margins — 19.2% and 17.6%, respectively.

The ULCC model has also proved to be highly recession-resistant. Both Spirit and Allegiant maintained relatively stable unit revenues and profitability through the tough industry years of 2008 and 2009."


Obviously this is a much different scenario than last recession, but its the best comparison we have in the recent past. Like a cockroach after a nuclear holocaust, ULCCs seem to survive these crisis.
This is all speculation, but I wouldn't be quick to assume they are in more dire shape than the rest of the industry.
 
AZa346
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:15 pm

dcajet wrote:
AR operating a repatriation flight from Quito UIO to Buenos Aires EZE. First time AR has landed in an Ecuador airport since 1990.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ARG1911/245a14af

https://twitter.com/ELMICKID/status/1249419084506300417

Why didn't Aerolineas Argentinas serve Quito?? This seems like a big gap in their network!
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:22 pm

AZa346 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
AR operating a repatriation flight from Quito UIO to Buenos Aires EZE. First time AR has landed in an Ecuador airport since 1990.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ARG1911/245a14af

https://twitter.com/ELMICKID/status/1249419084506300417

Why didn't Aerolineas Argentinas serve Quito?? This seems like a big gap in their network!


Did AR serve GYE before all of this? GYE is at sea level, while UIO is high, likely requiring a 73G or a wide-body.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3872
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:44 pm

deltacto wrote:
Question about these repatriation flights: Does the host country require the foreign nationals to leave? or does the home country require their foreign nationals return?

For example ... with all the Germans in New Zealand ... did the New Zealand government announce the Germans must depart? Or did the German government announce that everybody must return to Germany? In other words, if a German can legally reside in New Zealand, can they stay if they want?


Different counties have different rules currently, New Zealand hasn’t kicked foreigners out just they must obey all current restrictions while the country is in Level 4 restrictions (lockdown).

Most airlines stopped there flights at short notice, New Zealand was one the first counties to bring string restrictions in on travel. Leaving up to 40,000 people stuck here without an way home.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:47 pm

AZa346 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
AR operating a repatriation flight from Quito UIO to Buenos Aires EZE. First time AR has landed in an Ecuador airport since 1990.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ARG1911/245a14af

https://twitter.com/ELMICKID/status/1249419084506300417

Why didn't Aerolineas Argentinas serve Quito?? This seems like a big gap in their network!


AR never served UIO, it served GYE for years, with the 707 first and the 727 later, but GYE (and PTY) were dropped in 1990. Ecuatoriana, TAME and LATAM Ecuador have served EZE at different times over the years but AR has never expressed an interest in returning to Ecuador. Demand is not high and not particularly high yielding. I believe LATAM Ecuador operated until recently a daily service from UIO with an enroute stop in LIM, with an A319.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
mandargb
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 8:00 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:02 pm

KirkSeattle wrote:
DL is running SLC PPG (Pago Pago). On a B767-300ER

https://www.flightradar24.com/DAL8835/2459eb46


Is this some ferry flight to bring people / supplies.
Now it is diverted too HNL.
Was is going to be non-stop with 763ER ?
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:15 pm

mandargb wrote:
KirkSeattle wrote:
DL is running SLC PPG (Pago Pago). On a B767-300ER

https://www.flightradar24.com/DAL8835/2459eb46


Is this some ferry flight to bring people / supplies.
Now it is diverted too HNL.
Was is going to be non-stop with 763ER ?


Most, if not all, of these international flights from/to SLC have been to bring home Mormon missionaries stranded overseas during their church-mandated missions.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:20 pm

CRJ5000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
So we know that the grant amount is based on the salary obligations for Q2/Q3 of 2019. If you look up cost, you will see that salary obligtions make up a larger portion of legacy expense than ULCC.

Let's compare DL/B6/NK for Q3 off last year.
DL is 2.88 billion out of total expense of 10.49 billion -> 27.5% Keep in mind, it's actually higher than because they spent $900 million on regional carrier expenses also.
if we remove regional expenses.
2.88 billion out of 9.59 -> 30%
B6 is 580 million out of total expense of 1839 million -> 31.5%
NK is 224 million out of total expense of 867 million -> 25.8%

So you can see this grant naturally helps out ULCCs less than other airlines

On top of that, we know that NK scheduled in 90% reduction and F9 scheduled in 95% reduction to their schedule while asking for exemptions. Whereas non-ULCCs have made smaller reductions and it would be less costly for them if the exemptions are not granted.

take a look at this chart
https://twitter.com/WandrMe/status/1248 ... 29/photo/2
you can see the minimum flight obligations for both G4/F9 are higher than B6 despite B6 being a much larger airline and will get more grant money.
NK's minimum flight obligation is not far from B6.

So the minimum schedule requirement hurts ULCCs, especially G4/F9 more than anyone else.

And they already get less grant as proportion of their overall cost.

So the grant will become less appealing to ULCCs before other airlines.


Well of course the larger airlines are getting more money as they have far higher payrolls. By principle, the CARES act itself negates most of that advantage, as they are obligated to pay them if accepting the money. Yes, they can try voluntary reductions in hours or LOAs, but still the majority of that money will have to go straight to covering payroll. Government has already worked with the ULCCs in changing parts of the cares act, which tells me they will likely be somewhat flexible on exemptions as well. I expect many, but not all of the exemptions to be granted. For the rest, airlines will adjust schedules to comply. I guess we'll probably find out this week.

Since we are in an economic crisis, I think it's fair to look at the 2008 financial crisis/recession as some historical data. In the 5 years after (2007-2012), here is how the industry grew/shrank...
G4 +130%
NK +49
B6 +23
F9 +3
WN +2
SY -7
AA -14
UA -15
AS -15
US -16
FL -16
DL -18

Sourced from DOT review on aviation industry performance...
https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/f ... -24-12.pdf

LCCS/ULCCs thrived and grew. By 2014 NK/G6 had the highest margins in the industry. I'd imagine F9 was there as well, but data isn't available as they are private.

Quote below from another old aviation article put out about 5 years after the last recession -

"The ULCC business model is gaining traction in the US in part because it is proving to be a superior profit generator. Spirit and Allegiant were the two most profitable US airlines in 2014 in terms of operating margins — 19.2% and 17.6%, respectively.

The ULCC model has also proved to be highly recession-resistant. Both Spirit and Allegiant maintained relatively stable unit revenues and profitability through the tough industry years of 2008 and 2009."


Obviously this is a much different scenario than last recession, but its the best comparison we have in the recent past. Like a cockroach after a nuclear holocaust, ULCCs seem to survive these crisis.
This is all speculation, but I wouldn't be quick to assume they are in more dire shape than the rest of the industry.


I'm simply saying that based on the way that CARES are structured, the grant allocated to ULCC would be a smaller % of their overall cost than other carriers. I'm not talking about absolute amount here. And in terms of the strings attached, they are also the most burdensome for ULCCs, especially F9/G4. So at a certain point (as the ratio of grant to loan decrease), this might become easy for ULCCs to pass on. I do still expect every non-ULCCs to swallow the pill and take the free money, even if it's 30% less than before.

Now in terms of who will come out better, that's a different question. I've been on the record in saying that G4 and WN will do the best coming out of this. And I will maintain that position. I think whoever has the most money when airlines become cash positive again will come out the best. G4 will always be profitable since they only fly when there is money to be made and are not concerned about market shares. WN due to their great cash flow, great margins before this and large presence in parts of the country less affected by the virus and small international presence will probably achieve cash positive first among the larger airlines. We will see.

Also, to me the legacies are going to have the hardest time out of this. Someone like AA might have to take both grant and loans to not have to find themselves in the court. Long term, it's not a great scenario to have gov't control a large portion of your company, but AA might not have a choice when they become low on money. Or maybe one or two of these airlines will decide to just furlough right away and end up in the court and wait for courts to screw over the unions.

Also generally when economy is doing well, that helps legacies, since they can make the revenue premium with their corporate contracts. When economy is doing poorly, that helps ULCC since there is just less corporate dollar around and people travelers are hunting for lowest price.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11125
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:30 pm

Virgin Atlantic 789 repatriation flight to JNB

Image

https://twitter.com/ben73438/status/124 ... 31072?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11125
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:32 pm

Virgin Australia 77W VH-VPD arriving in CDG after ferrying French nationals BNE-AKL-HKG-CDG

Image

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/GroupeADP/status/12 ... 66594?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11125
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:36 pm

South African also did a repatriation flight to MIA, video below of aircraft arriving in MIA

https://twitter.com/breakingavnews/stat ... 70752?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4246
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:40 pm

Vaccines (or easy cheap treatment) seem to me as the essential before aviation, or the cruise industry, can get back to normal. The death rate starts spiking for those over 50. If we are lucky that will be a year from now. Testing can ease up some of the pressure, but sane 50+ persons are not going to want to spend hours flying packed at two people per sq. meter, or even one per 2 sq. meters for hours per day. Nor at 2-5 thousand per ship for days on end. The question becomes what sort of short term business model results in survival for 12-18 months under these conditions.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
tax1k
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:02 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:30 pm

The air­line has been dis­in­fect­ing cab­ins more of­ten, among other mea­sures; now, part of its task is mak­ing sure cus­tomers know what Amer­i­can is do­ing, said Kurt Stache, Amer­i­can’s se­nior vice pres­i­dent of cus­tomer ex­pe­ri­ence. It is also look­ing at how to limit con­tact be­tween trav­el­ers dur­ing board­ing and in flight.

The above is a paragraph from a WSJ story today about post pandemic business operations. It discusses many businesses, including airlines and restaurants, and I’m guessing it’s just a coincidence that they mention AA.

All that said, how in blazes do you limit contact between travelers during boarding and in flight? Take out half the seats?
 
MRYapproach
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:10 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:35 pm

This is an interesting article about preparing planes for storage.
https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/04/12/pre ... r-storage/
I've always wondered how the very high temperatures common at places like VCV or Marana affect planes, but I'm skeptical that they would just open the doors. Way too much dust, and frankly not much cooler than the air inside.
 
KirkSeattle
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:32 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:36 pm

dcajet wrote:
mandargb wrote:
KirkSeattle wrote:
DL is running SLC PPG (Pago Pago). On a B767-300ER

https://www.flightradar24.com/DAL8835/2459eb46


Is this some ferry flight to bring people / supplies.
Now it is diverted too HNL.
Was is going to be non-stop with 763ER ?


Most, if not all, of these international flights from/to SLC have been to bring home Mormon missionaries stranded overseas during their church-mandated missions.


Looks like she is just about an hour out from landing. On FR24 looks like she is off to PPT from PPG (DL8874) then off to HNL and presumable SLC. Pit stop!
 
TropicalSky
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 1:37 pm

Reuters-% Govt & Airlines get in bailout agreement

Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:19 pm

Interesting that American is gonna owe the govt more than the others....

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN21V1VO
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3024
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:20 am

Updating consolidated list to include additional requests (bold)

Several US airlines have petitioned for exceptions of service obligation strings which come along with federal support dollars. Some of these are referenced in other threads but not all (or not always easy to find) plus I think it's notable enough to view the bigger picture.

Delta is requesting exception primarily for DL/DL* seasonal markets, US Virgin Islands due to travel ban, plus Cedar City (runway construction)
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0057

Cody, WY (COD)
Juneau, AK (JNU)
Ketchikan, AK (KTN)
Martha's Vineyard, MA (MVY)
Nantucket, MA (ACK)
Sitka, AK (SIT)
West Yellowstone, MT (WYS)
Christiansted, VI (STX)
Charlotte Amalie, VI (STT)
Cedar City, UT (CDC)


Frontier is requesting exception from 26 cities based on loads
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0055

Albany, NY (ALB)
Billings, MT (BIL)
Bloomington, IL (BMI)
Boston, MA Metropolitan Region (BOS/PVD)
Burlington, VT (BTV)
Buffalo, NY (BUF)
Bozeman, MT (BZN)
Cedar Rapids, IA (CID)
Charlotte, NC (CLT)
Columbus, OH (CMH)
Colorado Springs, CO (COS)
Detroit, MI (DTW)
El Paso, TX (ELP)
Fargo, ND (FAR)
Sioux Falls, SD (FSD)
Spokane, WA (GEG)
Green Bay, WI (GRB)
Grand Rapids, MI (GRR)
Greenville/Spartanburg, SC (GSP)
Harlingen, TX (HRL)
Huntsville, AL (HSV)
Wichita, KS (ICT)
Jacksonville, FL (JAX)
Madison, WI (MSN)
Norfolk, VA (ORF)
West Palm Beach, FL (PBI)
Pittsburgh, PA (PIT)
Palm Springs, CA (PSP)
Portland, ME (PWM)
Raleigh/Durham, NC (RDU)
Louisville, KY (SDF)
Syracuse, NY (SYR)
Tyler, TX (TYR)
Knoxville, TN (TYS)


Jetblue wants to terminate some based on multi-airport metro areas, others based just on loads
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0048

BWI - Baltimore/Washington International Airport, nearby still serving DCA
BUR - Hollywood Burbank Airport nearby still serving LAX and LGB
HPN - Westchester County Airport nearby still serving JFK and EWR
LGA - LaGuardia Airport nearby still serving JFK and EWR
ONT - Ontario International Airport nearby still serving LAX and LGB
PVD - T. F. Green International Airport nearby still serving BOS
SJC - San Jose Mineta International Airport nearby still serving SFO
SWF - New York Stewart International Airport nearby still serving JFK, EWR and ALB

ABQ – Albuquerque International Sunport
BQN – Aguadilla / Rafael Hernández International Airport
BZN – Bozeman Yellowstone International Airport
DFW – Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport
IAH – Houston George Bush Intercontinental Airport
MSP – Minneapolis−Saint Paul International Airport
ORH – Worcester Regional Airport
PDX – Portland International Airport
PSE – Mercedita / Ponce International Airport
RNO – Reno-Tahoe International Airport
SMF – Sacramento International Airport


Hawaiian requests exemptions for based on loads, mostly mainline airports. (LAX/SFO remain but that may be it -- I think they are separately cutting co-terminus stations like OAK in favor of SFO/LAX)
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0052

Boston
Las Vegas
New York
Phoenix
Portland
Sacramento
San Diego
Seattle
Lahaina


Spirit requests exemption based on a variety of reasons including heavy use of contract workers and the CARES act does not sufficiently/properly distribute financial support regarding contractors.
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0049

Aguadilla BQN
Asheville AVL
Austin AUS
Charleston CRW
St Thomas STT
Charlotte CLT
St Croix STX
Akron CAK
Cleveland CLE
Columbus CMH
Greensboro GSO
Hartford BDL
Indianapolis IND
Jacksonville JAX
Kansas City MCI
Latrobe LBE
Minneapolis MSP
Myrtle Beach MYR
Newark EWR
LaGuarda LGA
Niagara Falls IAG
Pittsburgh PIT
Plattsburgh PBG
Portland PDX
Raleigh RDU
Richmond RIC
Sacramento SMF
Oakland OAK


United requests exemption based on a variety of reasons below
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0060

Seasonal markets they want to delay at least until July 7, except ACK skip entirely for 2020
Myrtle Beach MYR
Fairbanks FAI
Sun Valley SUN
Hilton Head HHH
Nantucket ACK

Virtually zero leisure demand / travel restrictions to tropical islands
San Juan SJU
Aguadilla BQN
St Thomas STT
Hilo ITO
Kona KOA
Kahului OGG
Saipan SPN

Other UA airports are close to please let us cut our losses somewhere...
Green Bay GRB, only 25 miles from Appleton
Gunnison GUC, only 48 miles from Aspen
Ithaca ITH, only 46 miles from Syracuse
Kalamazoo AZO only 45 miles from Grand Rapids
Santa Fe SAF only 29 miles from Albuquerque
Eglin AFB/Valparaiso VPS only 22 miles from Pensacola[


Allegiant requests exemption for these airports, making the point that with big aircraft, no hubs, no international routes (which can be dropped at will) and few markets more than 4x/week they would have to maintain far more of their network to comply than most other carriers.
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0063

ABQ: Albuquerque, New Mexico
BLI: Bellingham, Washington
CKB: Clarksburg, West Virginia
DAY: Dayton, Ohio
ELP: El Paso, Texas
GFK: Grand Forks, North Dakota
LIT: Little Rock, Arkansas
MFE: McAllen-Mission, Texas
MJT: Montrose, Colorado
MLI: Moline-Quad Cities, Illinois
OGD: Ogden, Utah
OGS: Ogdensburg, New York
OWB: Owensboro, Kentucky
PSP: Palm Springs, California
ROC: Rochester, New York
RDU: Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina
SAT: San Antonio, Texas
SJU: San Juan, Puerto Rico
SPI: Springfield, Illinois
STC: St. Cloud, Minnesota
TUS: Tucson, Arizona

Allegiant also states that they are using this past winter (2019-2020) schedule as baseline, so the following Allegiant destinations served in 2019 are not not included in Allegiant's 2020 obligation:
ANC Anchorage
DEN Denver
MKE Milwaukee
MYR Myrtle Beach
SAN San Diego


Alaksa requests just three exemptions
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0061

Sun Valley SUN
Kona KOA
Lihue LIH
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2105
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Airlines and US Treasury reach tentative deal

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:56 pm

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/14/coronav ... n-aid.html


U.S. airlines and the Treasury Department have reached an agreement in principle on billions in government aid aimed at softening the blow from the coronavirus, sources told CNBC.

Details to be out later
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2846
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Airlines and US Treasury reach tentative deal

Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:16 pm

 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8060
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:45 pm

AA gets a grant and a loan totaling $5.8 Billion.

American Airlines Group Inc. (NASDAQ: AAL) announced today that the U.S. Department of the Treasury has approved $5.8 billion in financial assistance from the Payroll Support Program (PSP) created through the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act. The funds, which are targeted to support team member salaries and benefits, will come in two forms: a direct grant of $4.1 billion, and a low-interest rate loan of $1.7 billion.

In addition to the $5.8 billion, American expects to separately apply for a loan from the U.S. Treasury of approximately $4.75 billion.


http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... PS-DIS-04/
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1398
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:50 pm

Southwest seems to add some more detail in theirs.

"The Company's expected disbursements under the program total more than $3.2 billion, consisting of more than $2.3 billion in direct payroll support and a nearly $1 billion unsecured term loan ("loan"). The loan is expected to have a 10-year term with low interest rates and may be repaid at any time prior to maturity at par. The loan is expected to include approximately 2.6 million warrants issued to the U.S. Department of Treasury. The program includes certain conditions, such as: prohibitions against involuntary furloughs and reductions in employee pay rates and benefits through September 30, 2020; the elimination of share repurchases and dividends until September 30, 2021; and limits on executive compensation until March 24, 2022."

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... -cares-act
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:27 pm

Add OGG to the Alaska list of requested exemptions.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:49 pm

Looks like NK is the only airline not taking the bailout money. I thought F9/G4 was more likely to give the fingers to Mnuchin, but looks like I'm wrong.

I'd imagine large scale furloughing is coming very soon for NK.

The interesting part is that AA is the only one so far to publicly admit that they will also apply for the loan. Since Treasury is basically acting like the lender of last resort, i'm assuming that no commercial entities are willing to lend to AA at this point at a reasonable interest rate.

Edit: looks like sun country is also not participating here.
Last edited by tphuang on Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
United1
Posts: 4164
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:50 pm

knope2001 wrote:

[b]
United requests exemption based on a variety of reasons below
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0060

Seasonal markets they want to delay at least until July 7, except ACK skip entirely for 2020
Myrtle Beach MYR
Fairbanks FAI
Sun Valley SUN
Hilton Head HHH
Nantucket ACK

Virtually zero leisure demand / travel restrictions to tropical islands
San Juan SJU
Aguadilla BQN
St Thomas STT
Hilo ITO
Kona KOA
Kahului OGG
Saipan SPN

Other UA airports are close to please let us cut our losses somewhere...
Green Bay GRB, only 25 miles from Appleton
Gunnison GUC, only 48 miles from Aspen
Ithaca ITH, only 46 miles from Syracuse
Kalamazoo AZO only 45 miles from Grand Rapids
Santa Fe SAF only 29 miles from Albuquerque
Eglin AFB/Valparaiso VPS only 22 miles from Pensacola[


I posted this in the UA Fleet/Network thread but...

Some of the exemptions UA asked for are temporary....ie we need to stop service now but will either restart or look at restarting in a few weeks/months.

Fairbanks (FAI) - Resumes July 6th
Hilton Head (HHH) - Resumes July 6th
Myrtle Beach (MYR) - Resumes July 6th
Sun Valley (SUN) - Resumes July 6th
San Juan (SJU) - Resumes May 6th
Aguadilla (BQN) - Resumes July 6th
Saint Thomas (STT) - Resumes July 6th
Hilo (ITO) - Suspended - Passengers will be reaccommodated on intra-Hawaii flights
Kona (KOA) - Suspended - Passengers will be reaccommodated on intra-Hawaii flights
Lihue (LIH) - Suspended - Passengers will be reaccommodated on intra-Hawaii flights
Kahului (OGG) - Suspended - Passengers will be reaccommodated on intra-Hawaii flights
Saipan (SPN) - Will look at resuming service after May 2nd
Green Bay(GRB) - Will look at resuming service after July 6th
Gunnison(GUC) - Will look at resuming service after July 6th
Ithaca (ITH) - Will look at resuming service after July 6th
Kalamazoo (AZO) - Will look at resuming service after July 6th
Santa Fe (SAF) - Will look at resuming service after July 6th
Valparaiso (VPS) - Will look at resuming service after July 6th
Nantucket(ACK) - Suspended for this season

Regarding SJU the exemption is only until May 6th when UA planned on restarting service. Otherwise UA would have to restart service prior to that date (whenever it accepted the terms of the grant from the US Government.) May 6th is in line with the rest of the Caribbean service they announced.

SPN service was shut down due to a specific and direct request from the Governor of that US Commonwealth. UA plans on restoring service on May 2nd barring another request. Again without making the request UA would have to restart service immediately..something the island and UA do not want.

Service to Hawaii outside of HNL is being suspended until September for a couple of reasons. One is holiday traffic has follow off a cliff edge and the flights would be mostly empty. Second is the Governor of Hawaii is actively suppressing tourism right now until the Pandemic is over or at least under control. The suspension of service is supported by him and the state until the 14 day quarantine period imposed on anyone coming to or traveling around the islands has been removed. UA could restart service prior to September but like everything right now flexibility is key.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2846
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:52 pm

Delta to receive $5.4 billion; government will take 1% stake in Delta.

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/12 ... 0420301829
 
tphuang
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:57 pm

Alright Jetblue's comment on this.
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=68176
everyone got about 76% of their payroll from Q2/Q3 of last year.
For JetBlue, that is
JetBlue payroll in Q2 – Q3 2019 equated to $1.23 billion.

Every airlines gets about 76% of that payroll amount.

For JetBlue that’s $935.8 million.

CARES Act Allocation: $935.8 million

Direct Support: $685.1 million
Low-Interest Loan: $250.7 million
 
CRJ5000
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:21 pm

tphuang wrote:
Looks like NK is the only airline not taking the bailout money. I thought F9/G4 was more likely to give the fingers to Mnuchin, but looks like I'm wrong.

I'd imagine large scale furloughing is coming very soon for NK.

The interesting part is that AA is the only one so far to publicly admit that they will also apply for the loan. Since Treasury is basically acting like the lender of last resort, i'm assuming that no commercial entities are willing to lend to AA at this point at a reasonable interest rate.

Edit: looks like sun country is also not participating here.


They’re taking the grant too. Just haven’t agreed to final terms yet. Other aviation message boards indicated this from a memo from CEO.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7273
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:43 pm

CRJ5000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Looks like NK is the only airline not taking the bailout money. I thought F9/G4 was more likely to give the fingers to Mnuchin, but looks like I'm wrong.

I'd imagine large scale furloughing is coming very soon for NK.

The interesting part is that AA is the only one so far to publicly admit that they will also apply for the loan. Since Treasury is basically acting like the lender of last resort, i'm assuming that no commercial entities are willing to lend to AA at this point at a reasonable interest rate.

Edit: looks like sun country is also not participating here.


They’re taking the grant too. Just haven’t agreed to final terms yet. Other aviation message boards indicated this from a memo from CEO.

Bingo, in the memo to employees it clearly states they are still negotiating the terms and they expect to reach an agreement soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
tphuang
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:53 pm

CRJ5000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Looks like NK is the only airline not taking the bailout money. I thought F9/G4 was more likely to give the fingers to Mnuchin, but looks like I'm wrong.

I'd imagine large scale furloughing is coming very soon for NK.

The interesting part is that AA is the only one so far to publicly admit that they will also apply for the loan. Since Treasury is basically acting like the lender of last resort, i'm assuming that no commercial entities are willing to lend to AA at this point at a reasonable interest rate.

Edit: looks like sun country is also not participating here.


They’re taking the grant too. Just haven’t agreed to final terms yet. Other aviation message boards indicated this from a memo from CEO.


Good for the workers then. Although I'm not sure how much better their terms are going to get if F9/G4 already agreed to it.
 
CRJ5000
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:39 am

tphuang wrote:
Good for the workers then. Although I'm not sure how much better their terms are going to get if F9/G4 already agreed to it.


Yeah, I'd agree it'll probably be in line with what the others agreed to and not much better.
 
ZazuPIT
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:58 pm

Hopefully this won't get deleted, my last post from this site was...in part it states "The number of passengers at US airports has fallen to less than 100,000 a day – a drop of 96 per cent from last year and on a par with levels last seen in 1954." That is a staggering figure. Full story https://thewofa.com/2020/04/us-air-traf ... lybulletin
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 7426
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:35 pm

A rare bird at LHR. China Southern Airlines A380 just arriving, cargo perhaps?

https://www.flightradar24.com/CSN303/245c4f7d
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2846
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:38 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
A rare bird at LHR. China Southern Airlines A380 just arriving, cargo perhaps?

https://www.flightradar24.com/CSN303/245c4f7d


I think it’s pax? CZ303 looks to be operating every Wednesday so it follows the new once-weekly flight rule China started.

Last week it was a 777-300ER.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:56 pm

The details of Alaska air's agreement on this
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 40655.html
They got $992 million in total between themselves and Horizon. Sounds about right.

This part was a little surprising to me
The program will provide Alaska and Horizon with a total of $992 million, to be used exclusively for the cost of employee payroll and benefits. The funding is expected to cover about 70% of budgeted costs through Sept. 30, 2020, and was based on similar costs reported by the airlines for the period of April through September 2019.

According to JetBlue, everyone got 76% of their cost from 2019 Q2/Q3. Did Alaska air's payroll and benefits go up 8.5% YoY? Or did AS get a little less than everyone else?

Also of interest is that AS is the second airline (other being AA) to signal that they will also apply for additional loan from treasury.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:34 pm

tphuang wrote:
According to JetBlue, everyone got 76% of their cost from 2019 Q2/Q3. Did Alaska air's payroll and benefits go up 8.5% YoY? Or did AS get a little less than everyone else?

Also of interest is that AS is the second airline (other being AA) to signal that they will also apply for additional loan from treasury.


AS had a lot of growth between last year and this year and had not reduced any department staffing going into 2020. Another factor might have been a new pilot contract with increased wages. Cost of health care is always going up as well. Maybe between it all it added up to 8.5%?

Loved your earlier post, tphuang...I don't see things turning around until late spring 2021 at the earliest. I feel bad for the more junior hires at all airlines. Come October 1st I think there will be tens of thousands of furloughs and layoffs in the US airline industry.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24620
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:57 pm

CARES Act provided $10bil in grants to U.S. airports.

Below link of the awarded amount per each airport (pdf file)
https://www.faa.gov/airports/cares_act/ ... mounts.pdf
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6171
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:19 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
tphuang wrote:
According to JetBlue, everyone got 76% of their cost from 2019 Q2/Q3. Did Alaska air's payroll and benefits go up 8.5% YoY? Or did AS get a little less than everyone else?

Also of interest is that AS is the second airline (other being AA) to signal that they will also apply for additional loan from treasury.


AS had a lot of growth between last year and this year and had not reduced any department staffing going into 2020. Another factor might have been a new pilot contract with increased wages. Cost of health care is always going up as well. Maybe between it all it added up to 8.5%?

Loved your earlier post, tphuang...I don't see things turning around until late spring 2021 at the earliest. I feel bad for the more junior hires at all airlines. Come October 1st I think there will be tens of thousands of furloughs and layoffs in the US airline industry.


Depends on you definition of “turned around”. I would say it would be being at 80% of 2019 levels.

Based on that it depends on when treatment (not a vaccine) becomes widely available. If it does at the beginning of summer, domestic should rebound quickly, followed by Latin America. I agree long haul international probably will be spring 2021 though.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
CRJ5000
Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:53 pm

I thought it was rather funny (and maybe infuriating) watching an interview with Doug Parker on CNBC today that when speaking about the loans and grants and their stipulations, he said "Its fair to say that until you've paid off the loans...that you don't have stock buybacks, dividends, that the money doesn't flow to executives, and that you have restrictions on executive compensation. We're going to find out ways around them."
Rather bold and blatant to state that they'll find ways around the stipulations such as buybacks and executive compensation.
Interview is linked below. The part about AA finding ways around the stipulations comes just after 14:30.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/04/15/w ... arker.html
 
tphuang
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:40 pm

TPG article on this
https://thepointsguy.com/news/us-airlin ... -5-things/

and here is the kicker
Still, airline layoffs are coming

“Unfortunately, we simply don’t see any way for most U.S. airlines to avoid massive layoffs unless the industry-specific payroll protection grants/loans are extended,” wrote Baker.

Carriers are free to involuntarily furlough or lay off staff after Sept. 30, under the rules governing the payroll assistance.

This increasingly appears inevitable as analyst estimates on the future size of the industry continue to trend downward. While two weeks ago the consensus was 2021 passenger numbers in the U.S. would be roughly 20% to 25% below 2019 levels, now the consensus is they will be at least 30% lower.

In an April 13 report, Cowen analyst Helane Becker estimated that airlines could furlough or lay off as many as 125,000 employees if they reduce their fleets by 30%. This would translate to a reduction of more than 35,000 staff at American, 25,000 at Delta, 18,000 at Southwest and 27,000 at United.


That's not to say airline capacity as a whole will be down 30%. I do expect LF to be down. I do expect fares to take a couple of years to recover.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:09 pm

This Friday (17/4) LATAM will operate a SYD-EZE repatriation flight for Argentinian citizens stranded in Australia. The flight will be operated by LATAM Chile with a 787-9; initially it was going to include a stop in SCL but it will now fly directly between SYD and EZE, a distance of 7.326 miles.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4689
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:39 pm

dcajet wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Aerolineas Argentinas will operate 2 freight flights to/from Shanghai via Auckland with the A332. This is the first time, I believe, that an A332 is deployed over the Southern Seas route. AR is no stranger to the route, being the airline that pioneered these flights in 1979. FFirst one will be flight AR1070/1,on 15/4, bringing respirators from China.

https://twitter.com/AvionesenEzeiza/sta ... 3726988289


This is the EZE-AKL route that the first flight plans to take. A most northerly track; suspect it is the lack of ETOPS 330 rating for the A332.

Image


Flight plan for the first leg of the flight (EZE-AKL, with CHC as the alternate) due to depart EZE this evening. Aircraft has been changed to LV-GIF.

Image
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8060
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:41 pm

U.S. CARES Act loan applications due April 30 may reveal intent on employment levels for 4Q20. The air carrier grant portion requires stable levels to 30 Sept. Of course, WARN Act notice is due 60 days before any intended action.

On the loan application due by April 30, airlines must describe any changes they expect to make in employment levels through the end of the year. Under the terms of the payroll aid, airlines must keep their workforce until Sept. 30.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN21X2X4
 
MRYapproach
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:10 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:31 pm

ZazuPIT wrote:
Hopefully this won't get deleted, my last post from this site was...in part it states "The number of passengers at US airports has fallen to less than 100,000 a day – a drop of 96 per cent from last year and on a par with levels last seen in 1954." That is a staggering figure. Full story https://thewofa.com/2020/04/us-air-traf ... lybulletin


I'm kind of impressed that in 1954 the US airlines were carrying 100k pax per day.
 
mga707
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:17 am

MRYapproach wrote:
ZazuPIT wrote:
Hopefully this won't get deleted, my last post from this site was...in part it states "The number of passengers at US airports has fallen to less than 100,000 a day – a drop of 96 per cent from last year and on a par with levels last seen in 1954." That is a staggering figure. Full story https://thewofa.com/2020/04/us-air-traf ... lybulletin


I'm kind of impressed that in 1954 the US airlines were carrying 100k pax per day.


I'm not. The 'kids' on here too often seem to think that there was NO airline industry before the jets came along. Then then 'big 4' US trunk lines (AA, EA, TW, UA) had impressive fleets and operations even back in the 'stone age' of 1954.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:53 am

For those who didn’t see - UA sent another publicly released memo today. I think the honesty is a stark indicator of what’s to come Oct 1, the writing is on the wall industry wide. Have to admire UA for at least being up front about it, it’s not fun for anybody to have to think about, but better than leading folks on for 6 months only to let them go come Oct 1.

Also interesting to finally hear a carrier acknowledge that this isn’t just going to “pick back up” even to a half-recovered state come June 1. Sounds like for now they’re going to trim thru June and likely even beyond. DL and WN have only really trimmed their schedules thru May at this point.

https://hub.united.com/2020-04-15-a-mes ... 29257.html
 
LJ
Posts: 5334
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:51 am

Posted this in the BeNeLux thread as well, but the impact on AMS and BRU is considerable. Especially if you consider that both airport had a "normal" month till mid-March.

Traffic figures were bad in the BeNeLux in March 2020 (comparison March 2019)

AMS
Passengers: 2,476,412 (-/- 56.1%)
Cargo: 121,648t (-/- 16.98%)
Movements: 25,155 (-/- 36.8%)

BRU
Passengers: 796,743 (-/- 60.15%)
Cargo: 52,520t (-/- 14.62%)
Movements: 10,894 (-/- 39.90%)

OST
Passengers: 11,588 (-/-53.24%)
Cargo: 3,157t ( + 89.72%)


Needless to say, April wil be much worse.....
 
alasizon
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:45 am

LAXintl wrote:
CARES Act provided $10bil in grants to U.S. airports.

Below link of the awarded amount per each airport (pdf file)
https://www.faa.gov/airports/cares_act/ ... mounts.pdf


Any idea how the funding was determined? It isn't by enplanement total and some of the airports (i.e. MCE and its $19M or ABY and its $18M) seem way out of proportion compared to normal levels based on enplanements and movements.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 11

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A320B737NGCapt, A350OZ, Acer, Allee, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], CWL757, deltacle, HALtheAI, klm617, Noshow, RyanairGuru, tsra, usflyer msp and 336 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos