Welcome to Indian Aviation Thread - April 2020. Please continue to add your comments below

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Sharing a slightly hark to the past article https://prime.economictimes.indiatimes. ... ld-assets-

I wonder how any new airports will be done, funded etc. once the dust settles. I don't see any movement happening for the rest of the year. With officially GDP growth being declared at 2.5% and real being 0% I fail to see any huge comeback for the aviation industry this year. May take 2-3 years to get things to now normal or more. It all depends on how long the existing situation lasts and the fallouts that follow.

Can someone please send me the March sattelite Image of LKO ? or a link where I can access it from ?

LKO. hardly any visible changes noticed on 29/03/2020. But here it is anyways.....

sand26391 wrote:

BOM as of 28/03/20, SAT image is not clear due to a little cloud formation and possible dust in the air(Smog).

When looking at the aerial pics of BOM, it's always sad to see the "broken" (half-built) pier of T2. If built fully to completion, would have looked lovely, just like in the master plan, and would have served its purpose better.
But thanks to the corrupt Maharashtra politicians (Shiv Sena) and their vote-bank politics, they prefer the illegal slums in the vicinity more. Sigh.

avier wrote:

When looking at the aerial pics of BOM, it's always sad to see the "broken" (half-built) pier of T2. If built fully to completion, would have looked lovely, just like in the master plan, and would have served its purpose better.
But thanks to the corrupt Maharashtra politicians (Shiv Sena) and their vote-bank politics, they prefer the illegal slums in the vicinity more. Sigh.

You left out the likes of Sunil Dutt and Kripa Shankar Singh.

What is more sad is the AI colony to the south side of the hangars. If that area got cleared out, the 2nd parallel runway could be built. While it may be too close for simultaneous take-off/landings, it could work for a simultaneous take-off/landing. Several airports, notably Newark, operate with the same constraints.

Would be lot cheaper than NMIA plus building all the infrastructure that will be required. Corrupt Maharashtra politicians???

sand26391 wrote:

LKO. hardly any visible changes noticed on 29/03/2020. But here it is anyways.....

Where is it bro ?? I dont sse the LKO ..I think you Took the shot of Bakshi Ka Talab Air force Base and not the civil airport...Please can you take a shot of LKO International Airport.

I went on this Sentinel Hub website and somehow got a blurred shot of my base and I could see 9 Narrow bodies which I assume are IndiGo 320s as per Fr24 data also I could make out the new apron like somethin being built towards RWY 27 and possibly they are making taxiway towards 27 side.

I hope the chinese virus issue ends soon so I could once again see SV 333s and other birds

avier wrote:

sand26391 wrote:

BOM as of 28/03/20, SAT image is not clear due to a little cloud formation and possible dust in the air(Smog).

When looking at the aerial pics of BOM, it's always sad to see the "broken" (half-built) pier of T2. If built fully to completion, would have looked lovely, just like in the master plan, and would have served its purpose better.
But thanks to the corrupt Maharashtra politicians (Shiv Sena) and their vote-bank politics, they prefer the illegal slums in the vicinity more. Sigh.

But isn't this issue very old? Why single Shiv Sena out? Isn't Congress and BJP equally complicit? I genuinely would like to know what you meant. Not trying to support any political party, I hate all of them.

airboss787 wrote:

But isn't this issue very old? Why single Shiv Sena out? Isn't Congress and BJP equally complicit? I genuinely would like to know what you meant. Not trying to support any political party, I hate all of them.

Good question. Irrespective of the two major political parties, Shiv Sena has been in direct control of the BMC (Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation) since 1985 ! Thats their major strength, taking control of the richest civic body in the country. BMC is responsible for land acquisition and slum rehabilitation. They however have played their usual vote-bank politics in slum rehabilitation since forever. Hence, slums all over Mumbai. They will pick any rival parties to side with, as long as they reign control over BMC (and Mumbai in general).
Hence, T2 is incomplete and BOM airport cannot expand with a possible parallel runway, as @vadodara mentioned.

vadodara wrote:

What is more sad is the AI colony to the south side of the hangars. If that area got cleared out, the 2nd parallel runway could be built. While it may be too close for simultaneous take-off/landings, it could work for a simultaneous take-off/landing. Several airports, notably Newark, operate with the same constraints.

Exactly. Also, there is the old 9W hangar, and the general aviation area . All needs to be moved away. Looks almost impossible though. AI housing colonies in Santacruz (E)Kalina are in control of AI employee unions, and they demand that even after privatisation , they'd like to retain those hosing facilities. I doubt that's ever going to move.

avier wrote:

vadodara wrote:

What is more sad is the AI colony to the south side of the hangars. If that area got cleared out, the 2nd parallel runway could be built. While it may be too close for simultaneous take-off/landings, it could work for a simultaneous take-off/landing. Several airports, notably Newark, operate with the same constraints.

Exactly. Also, there is the old 9W hangar, and the general aviation area . All needs to be moved away. Looks almost impossible though. AI housing colonies in Santacruz (E)Kalina are in control of AI employee unions, and they demand that even after privatisation , they'd like to retain those hosing facilities. I doubt that's ever going to move.

The original masterplan had included a full length parallel taxiway for the main runway on the south side, to complement the existing one on the north side. I suppose that would have been achieved by moving the entire General Aviation /Air India Engineering aprons to some other location on the airfield. But, like the incomplete T2 piers, this plan too seems to be shelved.

Apart from the political interference you correctly mention, I believe this decision (to diverge from the masterplan) was also influenced by the LCCs refusing to shift completely to T2, meaning that MIAL could not go ahead with the original plan of converting the Terminal 1 area into a dedicated cargo complex, resulting in lesser remote bays for T2. Last I heard, MIAL had plans of building a tunnel under the secondary runway to connect the T1 aprons with T2 to make up for this issue.

I think MIAL will find it cheaper and convenient to focus on developing Navi Mumbai airport now, rather than trying to make major airside layout changes at BOM.

Here's a relatively recent article regarding the Air India and Indian Airlines staff housing colonies you mention. I think MIAL may use the AI colony land for non-aeronautical purposes, given its proximity to the Bandra Kurla Complex, which is a major business precinct.

“AI used to pay a rent of Rs 14 crore a year to AAI, which was increased to Rs 24 crore in 2007 when GVK took over. AI has given a commitment to hand the land over to GVK in a phase-wise manner. In turn, GVK was to construct a multi-storey building to house these residents who currently live in colonies spread across 50 acres. But with Air India being privatised, it remains to be seen what happens to the agreement"

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 659727.cms

trinidadeG wrote:

avier wrote:

vadodara wrote:

What is more sad is the AI colony to the south side of the hangars. If that area got cleared out, the 2nd parallel runway could be built. While it may be too close for simultaneous take-off/landings, it could work for a simultaneous take-off/landing. Several airports, notably Newark, operate with the same constraints.

Exactly. Also, there is the old 9W hangar, and the general aviation area . All needs to be moved away. Looks almost impossible though. AI housing colonies in Santacruz (E)Kalina are in control of AI employee unions, and they demand that even after privatisation , they'd like to retain those hosing facilities. I doubt that's ever going to move.

The original masterplan had included a full length parallel taxiway for the main runway on the south side, to complement the existing one on the north side. I suppose that would have been achieved by moving the entire General Aviation /Air India Engineering aprons to some other location on the airfield. But, like the incomplete T2 piers, this plan too seems to be shelved.

Apart from the political interference you correctly mention, I believe this decision (to diverge from the masterplan) was also influenced by the LCCs refusing to shift completely to T2, meaning that MIAL could not go ahead with the original plan of converting the Terminal 1 area into a dedicated cargo complex, resulting in lesser remote bays for T2. Last I heard, MIAL had plans of building a tunnel under the secondary runway to connect the T1 aprons with T2 to make up for this issue.

I think MIAL will find it cheaper and convenient to focus on developing Navi Mumbai airport now, rather than trying to make major airside layout changes at BOM.

Here's a relatively recent article regarding the Air India and Indian Airlines staff housing colonies you mention. I think MIAL may use the AI colony land for non-aeronautical purposes, given its proximity to the Bandra Kurla Complex, which is a major business precinct.

“AI used to pay a rent of Rs 14 crore a year to AAI, which was increased to Rs 24 crore in 2007 when GVK took over. AI has given a commitment to hand the land over to GVK in a phase-wise manner. In turn, GVK was to construct a multi-storey building to house these residents who currently live in colonies spread across 50 acres. But with Air India being privatised, it remains to be seen what happens to the agreement"

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 659727.cms

Why can't Air India Engineering (and the hangars) be shifted to Nagpur where AI Engineering already has a facility? That would create more space at Mumbai airport for air operations.

VTORD wrote:

Sorry that was my bad on HYD. Don't know why I thought they were 4x for whatever reason. Apologies. Most likely looks like a typo then (28 in place of 24)?

It IS a typo, BLR was never 28 weekly.

As I had tweeted, the swap of capacity from TRV to BLR happened from IATA W19 wherein TRV was reduced from 11 weekly to 7 weekly and BLR increased from 21 weekly to 24 weekly. From a frequency perspective, no other station has been touched.

P.S Sorry to quote from the previous thread.

The French government is organizing a flight to repatriate 300 French citizens from Chennai to Paris. Airline that will operate is unknown.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 928842.cms

edealinfo wrote:

trinidadeG wrote:

I think MIAL will find it cheaper and convenient to focus on developing Navi Mumbai airport now, rather than trying to make major airside layout changes at BOM.

Why can't Air India Engineering (and the hangars) be shifted to Nagpur where AI Engineering already has a facility? That would create more space at Mumbai airport for air operations.

I've quoted the specific section of my post where Ive mentioned my opinion on the topic. If you have a source that says MIAL wants the space currently occupied by AIESL hangars for 'air operations', please do enlighten us all.

Delta Airlines has begun repatriation flights to bring back US Citizens from India. Currently operating the first such on Atlanta- Mumbai as DL8836 on a 77L.

avier wrote:

Delta Airlines has begun repatriation flights to bring back US Citizens from India. Currently operating the first such on Atlanta- Mumbai as DL8836 on a 77L.

Any idea if they are carrying any cargo / Indian repatriations back? I read a tweet somewhere that 10 Indian students in NY have tested positive and there are 4 deaths as well. Sad.

I wonder how the staffing works for this kind of operation on a ULH flight. Will they carry 4 sets of crew?

ojas wrote:

It IS a typo, BLR was never 28 weekly.

As I had tweeted, the swap of capacity from TRV to BLR happened from IATA W19 wherein TRV was reduced from 11 weekly to 7 weekly and BLR increased from 21 weekly to 24 weekly. From a frequency perspective, no other station has been touched.

P.S Sorry to quote from the previous thread.

Thanks! Again sorry I didn't do a very good job of relating the two tweets until much later.

avier wrote:

Exactly. Also, there is the old 9W hangar, and the general aviation area . All needs to be moved away. Looks almost impossible though. AI housing colonies in Santacruz (E)Kalina are in control of AI employee unions, and they demand that even after privatisation , they'd like to retain those hosing facilities. I doubt that's ever going to move.

Looks like they don't have any problem with wading through 2 feet deep water during monsoon !

HDFC Trustee Co picks 5.45% stake in SpiceJet

What does HDFC know that we don't?

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ma ... 884418.cms?

edealinfo wrote:

HDFC Trustee Co picks 5.45% stake in SpiceJet

What does HDFC know that we don't?

How to go down in style.

edealinfo wrote:

HDFC Trustee Co picks 5.45% stake in SpiceJet

What does HDFC know that we don't?

"The shares were bought from the open market." per article.

VTORD wrote:

avier wrote:

Delta Airlines has begun repatriation flights to bring back US Citizens from India. Currently operating the first such on Atlanta- Mumbai as DL8836 on a 77L.

Any idea if they are carrying any cargo / Indian repatriations back? I read a tweet somewhere that 10 Indian students in NY have tested positive and there are 4 deaths as well. Sad.

I wonder how the staffing works for this kind of operation on a ULH flight. Will they carry 4 sets of crew?

"Any incoming flights to bring Indians back home will have to await the lifting of the lockdown." per Hardeep Singh Puri.
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/tr ... 950024.cms

Regarding staffing, have no clue how DL has planned it. Per FDTL should be 4 sets of cockpit crew, sets of cabin crew could be lesser as it's (mostly) a ferry flight from Atlanta to Mumbai. There could be more such flights by DL, so not sure if crew will on layover in BOM or be deadheading back.

UAE special flights to Kochi, Thiruvananthapuram for stranded expats
In total 14 services have been scheduled to different cities of the world. Apart from Kochi and Thiruvananthapuram, flights will be operated to Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad and Bengaluru in India. The special services will begin from April 6


LINK: https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/nr ... -1.4661987

avier wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

HDFC Trustee Co picks 5.45% stake in SpiceJet

What does HDFC know that we don't?

"The shares were bought from the open market." per article.

That's an operational point of how the shares were procured that unfortunately, doesn't throw light on their reasoning for the purchase.

edealinfo wrote:

avier wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

HDFC Trustee Co picks 5.45% stake in SpiceJet

What does HDFC know that we don't?

"The shares were bought from the open market." per article.

That's an operational point of how the shares were procured that unfortunately, doesn't throw light on their reasoning for the purchase.

HDFC is a very conservative bank. Much lesser NPA...
Did not give much money to Vijay Mallya, Nirav Modi, Anil Ambani, Naresh Goyal etc...
HDFC must know something that we don't... A bailout package coming out

I need to buy SpiceJet shares...

Is anyone here a Pilot of a 773ER ?

I wanted to ask about the operational info of this particular bird pertaining my base for I just watched a video of a 777 most likely 772 Alitalia landing and taking off at Princess Juliana Intl Airport which has a RWY of about 7500 FT and it intrigued me to wonder if such short runway can accomodate a 772 then would my base be able accomodate a 773ER with a RWY size of 8990 FT about 2.74KMs though it daily gets SV 333s (Untill Lockdown) and I have seen the 744s and 788s here as well but never a 777 300ER so Im eager to know if theres any chance of me seeing the mighty 773ER ever here even be it an emergency landing or is the RWY too short to accomodate the long 773ER and if its short then what is the minimum required length of a Runway to operate a 773ER ?

Thanks

zionite wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

avier wrote:

"The shares were bought from the open market." per article.

That's an operational point of how the shares were procured that unfortunately, doesn't throw light on their reasoning for the purchase.

HDFC is a very conservative bank. Much lesser NPA...
Did not give much money to Vijay Mallya, Nirav Modi, Anil Ambani, Naresh Goyal etc...
HDFC must know something that we don't... A bailout package coming out

I need to buy SpiceJet shares...

A reasonable perspective.

zionite wrote:

HDFC must know something that we don't... A bailout package coming out

I need to buy SpiceJet shares...

Maybe they got a call from PMO. That is the only plausible reason to depart from their longstanding conservative approach because they don't have a choice to say NO.

Like I said a couple of weeks back, SpiceJet will never fold under this government. Bhagavan(God) always helps Bhakths(Devotees).

ojas wrote:

sand26391 wrote:

UAE special flights to Kochi, Thiruvananthapuram for stranded expats
In total 14 services have been scheduled to different cities of the world. Apart from Kochi and Thiruvananthapuram, flights will be operated to Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad and Bengaluru in India. The special services will begin from April 6


LINK: https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/nr ... -1.4661987

This information is completely false.

Damm, Ii thought so. IF it wud have been true, then you other GCC airlines wud have also asked GoI to allow flights from their resp countries.

dtw2hyd wrote:

zionite wrote:

HDFC must know something that we don't... A bailout package coming out

I need to buy SpiceJet shares...

Maybe they got a call from PMO. That is the only plausible reason to depart from their longstanding conservative approach because they don't have a choice to say NO.

Like I said a couple of weeks back, SpiceJet will never fold under this government. Bhagavan(God) always helps Bhakths(Devotees).

Also, a reasonable conclusion.

edealinfo wrote:

avier wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

HDFC Trustee Co picks 5.45% stake in SpiceJet

What does HDFC know that we don't?

"The shares were bought from the open market." per article.

That's an operational point of how the shares were procured that unfortunately, doesn't throw light on their reasoning for the purchase.

What I was highlighting was it's not (as of yet) suggesting any kind of major stake sale or control of the airline by such financial entities.
But then that could change if that's part of a bailout package for the airline.
Otherwise, isn't it normal for such financial institutions to pick up small stakes? Oil price is very low, and might be for a while. And maybe they are optimistic of the airline post the lockdown (?) Possible reasons.

How are India - Europe routes expected to fare after the crisis. I'm sure routes to major cities like LHR, FRA and even CDG will bounce back fairly quickly. But what about secondary markets like MUC, ZRH, AMS? - Do you expect them to return during the months following the end of the pandemic?

American Airlines DELAYS Bangalore-Seattle flight to 2021. No month of launch given,most likely a summer 2021 launch possble

AA has decided to postpone the launch of SEA - BLR to 2021.

https://skift.com/2020/04/02/what-this- ... l-recover/

As part of Thursday’s schedule changes, American said it no longer plans new service in October from Seattle to Bangalore. American announced the route to great fanfare in February, betting it could tap into demand between two tech-focused cities. The flight now will begin operating in 2021.

edealinfo wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

zionite wrote:

HDFC must know something that we don't... A bailout package coming out

I need to buy SpiceJet shares...

Maybe they got a call from PMO. That is the only plausible reason to depart from their longstanding conservative approach because they don't have a choice to say NO.

Like I said a couple of weeks back, SpiceJet will never fold under this government. Bhagavan(God) always helps Bhakths(Devotees).

Also, a reasonable conclusion.

If Warren Buffet buys shares of American, Delta and United in open market, dtw will credit Narendra Modi for that as well.

BTW, this is how Warren Buffet makes his purchases.

sand26391 wrote:

American Airlines DELAYS Bangalore-Seattle flight to 2021. No month of launch given,most likely a summer 2021 launch possble

Press release says it will start in October 2021, probably onset of W21.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

A friend from AA told me that IF the demand improves and the COVID19 issue is done with, there is a likely chance of AA starting the flight in SS. As long as they DO NOT cancel the flight, thats good. By WS'21 even T2 will be ready along with either OW or SA lounge(s). So I guess its a win win...

avier wrote:

Delta Airlines has begun repatriation flights to bring back US Citizens from India. Currently operating the first such on Atlanta- Mumbai as DL8836 on a 77L.

The second DL ATL-BOM is now enroute, also as DL8836.

vadodara wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Maybe they got a call from PMO. That is the only plausible reason to depart from their longstanding conservative approach because they don't have a choice to say NO.

Like I said a couple of weeks back, SpiceJet will never fold under this government. Bhagavan(God) always helps Bhakths(Devotees).

Also, a reasonable conclusion.

If Warren Buffet buys shares of American, Delta and United in open market, dtw will credit Narendra Modi for that as well.

BTW, this is how Warren Buffet makes his purchases.

I haven't yet forgotten the "Saffron on the ground, Red in the Sky" advertisement by SpiceJet when Narendra Modi was re-elected.

avier wrote:

Is it the end for Jet? One airline is particularly gleeful about today's awesome outcome.

HDFC might simply be betting on the horse that currently is the government's favourite.

Sadly, favouritism didn't die with the Congress rule, as some would want the world to believe.

vadodara wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Maybe they got a call from PMO. That is the only plausible reason to depart from their longstanding conservative approach because they don't have a choice to say NO.

Like I said a couple of weeks back, SpiceJet will never fold under this government. Bhagavan(God) always helps Bhakths(Devotees).

Also, a reasonable conclusion.

If Warren Buffet buys shares of American, Delta and United in open market, dtw will credit Narendra Modi for that as well.

BTW, this is how Warren Buffet makes his purchases.

July applying Occam's razor principle. When a hen goes missing in an Indian village, usually local moorgi choor(hen thief) is the suspect, not some international criminal gang.

Air India closes booking window until April 30

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/coron ... 620951.htm

*wink wink*

avier wrote:

avier wrote:

Delta Airlines has begun repatriation flights to bring back US Citizens from India. Currently operating the first such on Atlanta- Mumbai as DL8836 on a 77L.

The second DL ATL-BOM is now enroute, also as DL8836.

After Delta Airlines, now United Airlines to have repatriation flights from April 5, operating DEL-SFO, to bring back stranded US citizens in India.

https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll ... ay/1790471
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/us- ... 31209.html

dtw2hyd wrote:

vadodara wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Also, a reasonable conclusion.

If Warren Buffet buys shares of American, Delta and United in open market, dtw will credit Narendra Modi for that as well.

BTW, this is how Warren Buffet makes his purchases.

July applying Occam's razor principle. When a hen goes missing in an Indian village, usually local moorgi choor(hen thief) is the suspect, not some international criminal gang.

You are applying principle on what basis? Air India, Jet Airways or Satyam? Unless someone tapped the call and you have access to transcripts!

In any case buying depressed stock when markets crash is not exactly ‘theft’ let alone international conspiracy!

trinidadeG wrote:

HDFC might simply be betting on the horse that currently is the government's favourite.

Sadly, favouritism didn't die with the Congress rule, as some would want the world to believe.

Perhaps but HDFC would have bought Air India if it were freely traded!

vadodara wrote:

You are applying principle on what basis? Air India, Jet Airways or Satyam? Unless someone tapped the call and you have access to transcripts!

How do you transcribe an eye-roll?

Ajay Singh didn't fix SpiceJet finances, he just spread the losses as tax write-offs. Compare SpiceJet taxes to other Indian carriers.

Modi cannot keep helping ModiLuft and ask every to pretend nothing nefarious going on here.

Why didn't HDFC invest in Jet Airways.

There is a lawsuit by Dash-8 maker for defaulted payment, what would HDFC gain in investing in a sinking ship.

If HDFC doesn't invest CBI/ED/IT will raid their offices allover India, attach their board members assets. You invest and if you go down, SBI will come to the rescue, just like YES bank.

All these are dirty politics masqueraded as Civil Aviation. If we call it out, it is offensive.

I don’t subscribe to cynicism. This is not to say that politics and corruption can be separated.

Having said that, list of well run carriers seeking bailouts is quiet long:
SQ
LH
DL
Even Southwest is falling under this camp.

Having said that, SpiceJet is a small fry in this. One week of a mismanaged Air India costs more to Indian tax payer.

dtw2hyd wrote:

vadodara wrote:

You are applying principle on what basis? Air India, Jet Airways or Satyam? Unless someone tapped the call and you have access to transcripts!

How do you transcribe an eye-roll?

Ajay Singh didn't fix SpiceJet finances, he just spread the losses as tax write-offs. Compare SpiceJet taxes to other Indian carriers.

Modi cannot keep helping ModiLuft and ask every to pretend nothing nefarious going on here.

Why didn't HDFC invest in Jet Airways.

There is a lawsuit by Dash-8 maker for defaulted payment, what would HDFC gain in investing in a sinking ship.

If HDFC doesn't invest CBI/ED/IT will raid their offices allover India, attach their board members assets. You invest and if you go down, SBI will come to the rescue, just like YES bank.

All these are dirty politics masqueraded as Civil Aviation. If we call it out, it is offensive.

You hit the nail on the head.

however, There are many on this forum who will just refuse to a ccept the reality as they simple don’t see it.