avier wrote:

avier wrote:

Delta Airlines has begun repatriation flights to bring back US Citizens from India. Currently operating the first such on Atlanta- Mumbai as DL8836 on a 77L.

The second DL ATL-BOM is now enroute, also as DL8836.

It seems there are 2 DL 777s in BOM. Why hasnt the first one left yet?

airboss787 wrote:

avier wrote:

The second DL ATL-BOM is now enroute, also as DL8836.

It seems there are 2 DL 777s in BOM. Why hasnt the first one left yet?

They're scheduled to leave at 10pm as DL8875 on April 4th & 5th.

Seems like the crew that operated from US are on their "rest period" and will themselves operate it back to US, hence a/c on ground at BOM for two days. So probably no dead heading of crew and likely just two sets of crew for each a/c.

vadodara wrote:

I don’t subscribe to cynicism. This is not to say that politics and corruption can be separated.

Having said that, list of well run carriers seeking bailouts is quiet long:
SQ
LH
DL
Even Southwest is falling under this camp.

Having said that, SpiceJet is a small fry in this. One week of a mismanaged Air India costs more to Indian tax payer.

That again brings up the question of whether the govt. , with their now judicious use of their financial reserves, would want help Air-India or SpiceJet . (?)

During this lockdown and downtime, AI would be burning through far more cash on a per day basis compared to Spice.

“Tata Sons is stuck with AirAsia Berhad in a jinxed alliance. A watertight agreement is preventing Tata Sons from exiting AirAsia India“

This teaser is on the Business Standard newspaper. Does someone who has a subscription to the paper throw more light?

I spotted UA 789 today over my base heading to SFO prolly evacuation flight of American citizens also a while ago spotted an AI 773 VT - ALJ Star alliance livery at 39K FT heading to PVG the reasons of ths flight are not known does anyone here know why this AI is heading to PVG is it some sort of Evacuation of Indians because Ind Gov already said in press brief tht there wont be any Evacuation flights no more for Indians abroad.

On a sidenote its actually a heavenly time for a plane spotter like me to get clear blue skies with great visibility..My P1000 has never been this happier

FligtReporter wrote:

I spotted UA 789 today over my base heading to SFO prolly evacuation flight of American citizens also a while ago spotted an AI 773 VT - ALJ Star alliance livery at 39K FT heading to PVG the reasons of ths flight are not known does anyone here know why this AI is heading to PVG is it some sort of Evacuation of Indians because Ind Gov already said in press brief tht there wont be any Evacuation flights no more for Indians abroad.

On a sidenote its actually a heavenly time for a plane spotter like me to get clear blue skies with great visibility..My P1000 has never been this happier

Maybe bringing in medical supplies and also some people? Although seems like China’s epidemic has calmed down now

Bringing in medical kits from China:
https://twitter.com/swachhbharat/status ... 34050?s=20

The a/c in the pic is VT-ALN. VT-ALJ is currently on it's way back from PVG and is scheduled to make another hop there on the 7th per FlightAware. Looks like after unloading part of the cargo in DEL, the a/c continue on to BOM for the rest of the shipment.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

I spotted UA 789 today over my base heading to SFO prolly evacuation flight of American citizens also a while ago spotted an AI 773 VT - ALJ Star alliance livery at 39K FT heading to PVG the reasons of ths flight are not known does anyone here know why this AI is heading to PVG is it some sort of Evacuation of Indians because Ind Gov already said in press brief tht there wont be any Evacuation flights no more for Indians abroad.

On a sidenote its actually a heavenly time for a plane spotter like me to get clear blue skies with great visibility..My P1000 has never been this happier

Maybe bringing in medical supplies and also some people? Although seems like China’s epidemic has calmed down now

These are cargo flights to bring home medical supplies.. Check AI FB Page for details

CaliguyNYC wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

I spotted UA 789 today over my base heading to SFO prolly evacuation flight of American citizens also a while ago spotted an AI 773 VT - ALJ Star alliance livery at 39K FT heading to PVG the reasons of ths flight are not known does anyone here know why this AI is heading to PVG is it some sort of Evacuation of Indians because Ind Gov already said in press brief tht there wont be any Evacuation flights no more for Indians abroad.

On a sidenote its actually a heavenly time for a plane spotter like me to get clear blue skies with great visibility..My P1000 has never been this happier

Maybe bringing in medical supplies and also some people? Although seems like China’s epidemic has calmed down now

Yeah I think your right..Thanks bruh !

unnayan wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

I spotted UA 789 today over my base heading to SFO prolly evacuation flight of American citizens also a while ago spotted an AI 773 VT - ALJ Star alliance livery at 39K FT heading to PVG the reasons of ths flight are not known does anyone here know why this AI is heading to PVG is it some sort of Evacuation of Indians because Ind Gov already said in press brief tht there wont be any Evacuation flights no more for Indians abroad.

On a sidenote its actually a heavenly time for a plane spotter like me to get clear blue skies with great visibility..My P1000 has never been this happier

Maybe bringing in medical supplies and also some people? Although seems like China’s epidemic has calmed down now

These are cargo flights to bring home medical supplies.. Check AI FB Page for details

Actually I have never used Facebook so I dont know how it works...but thanks for your answer bro !

Air Deccan is first Indian casualty of coronavirus......

https://www.ndtv.com/business/coronavir ... ay-2206529?

Air India commences Delhi-Shanghai cargo flight operations

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/air-i ... 624611.htm

SpiceJet spends more than $20 million a month on its lease of 100 aircraft.

https://simpleflying.com/grounded-planes-costs/

edealinfo wrote:

Air Deccan is first Indian casualty of coronavirus......

https://www.ndtv.com/business/coronavir ... ay-2206529?

Regional airlines in India never lasted long in the past so the virus is not the main issue in that case .
They just cannot absorb the losses due to high cost of fuel and ATF tax for a decade or two like the general private carriers .

binayak wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Air Deccan is first Indian casualty of coronavirus......

https://www.ndtv.com/business/coronavir ... ay-2206529?

Regional airlines in India never lasted long in the past so the virus is not the main issue in that case .
They just cannot absorb the losses due to high cost of fuel and ATF tax for a decade or two like the general private carriers .

I am sorry of I am argumentative but Fuel (i.e.)ATF prices have never been lower so the reasoning is not sound. Assuming all other factors are constant (your assumption, including that the virus is not a factor for this airline), why would the airline fold now when fuel have never been lower (in the airline's existence), and not when it was the highest?

Almost all airlines in India will get a bailout of some sort. Not just Spice Jet. So HDFC investing in Spice Jet only is a bit peculiar, may be they know something we don't or it could be some kind of an internal deal.

edealinfo wrote:

“Tata Sons is stuck with AirAsia Berhad in a jinxed alliance. A watertight agreement is preventing Tata Sons from exiting AirAsia India“

This teaser is on the Business Standard newspaper. Does someone who has a subscription to the paper throw more light?

This means Tata is acknowledging that investing in Air Asia India was a mistake. If they can exit Air Asia India now, the airline could fold, and a good riddance anyway.

hohd wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

If they can exit Air Asia India now, the airline could fold, and a good riddance anyway.

Good riddance? Why? Why do you consider it differently from SpiceJet or Air India?

edealinfo wrote:

Good riddance? Why? Why do you consider it differently from SpiceJet or Air India?

What men! You still dont get how things work on Airliners.net/Twitter/Facebook?

Indigo is the rich and villainous sethji in every Bollywood movie who can buy influence and support by throwing freebies to av bloggers! Air India is the "ghar ki murgi" - always around to take the blame for everything that goes wrong! Like Uday Chopra in every B movie! You hate it but it will be always be around! SpiceJet is owned by Dear Leader's dearest friend! And Dear Leader's friends are OUR friends! NEVER FORGET!

Air Asia India and Vistara OTOH are the poor orphan boys who should be thankful for any crumbs that fall at their feet!

Do you get it now?

India's av blogger community used to "LOUVE" Mr.Kapoor - for obvious reasons! So support for an airline on forums like these and on social media followed Mr.Kapoor into whichever rinky-dinky airline he joined.

Where is the "charismatic" Mr.Kapoor these days? Anyone know?

As per info frm Canadian High Com Tomorrow is yet another blessing is disguise for BLR and any plane spotter who lives in spottable range of BLR as Air Canada,for the first time will operate to BLR direct from Canada on 8th April which will be an evacuation flight for Canadian Nationals..though Im based in LKO and I think its highly unlikely for the bird to fly anywhere near my spotting range but having spotted AC 789 already Im fine with it but definitely good for plane spotters at BLR and its flight path if there are any...Also it would be great if anyone could confirm this !

BawliBooch wrote:

India's av blogger community used to "LOUVE" Mr.Kapoor - for obvious reasons! So support for an airline on forums like these and on social media followed Mr.Kapoor into whichever rinky-dinky airline he joined.

Where is the "charismatic" Mr.Kapoor these days? Anyone know?

He has joined Go Air as an advisor .

BawliBooch wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Good riddance? Why? Why do you consider it differently from SpiceJet or Air India?

What men! You still dont get how things work on Airliners.net/Twitter/Facebook?

Indigo is the rich and villainous sethji in every Bollywood movie who can buy influence and support by throwing freebies to av bloggers! Air India is the "ghar ki murgi" - always around to take the blame for everything that goes wrong! Like Uday Chopra in every B movie! You hate it but it will be always be around! SpiceJet is owned by Dear Leader's dearest friend! And Dear Leader's friends are OUR friends! NEVER FORGET!

Air Asia India and Vistara OTOH are the poor orphan boys who should be thankful for any crumbs that fall at their feet!

Do you get it now?

Thanks.

A Wamos Air A332 is on its way from Bali to Madrin with total flight time of about 15 Hours which leads me to believe a 332 can very easily be used by an airline between Toronto and Delhi...Aah but then All of it is only possible when the Chinese Virus is gone.

FligtReporter wrote:

A Wamos Air A332 is on its way from Bali to Madrin with total flight time of about 15 Hours which leads me to believe a 332 can very easily be used by an airline between Toronto and Delhi...Aah but then All of it is only possible when the Chinese Virus is gone.

AC was already flying a B789 on the route and AI a B777... Why do you want a sub standard A332?

FligtReporter wrote:

A Wamos Air A332 is on its way from Bali to Madrin with total flight time of about 15 Hours which leads me to believe a 332 can very easily be used by an airline between Toronto and Delhi...Aah but then All of it is only possible when the Chinese Virus is gone.

The weight of the a/c is a key factor in determining its range .
Back in 1987 , Qantas flew an empty 747 from Sydney to London . That didn't guarantee non stop 747 ops from Australia to Europe ever.

unnayan wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

A Wamos Air A332 is on its way from Bali to Madrin with total flight time of about 15 Hours which leads me to believe a 332 can very easily be used by an airline between Toronto and Delhi...Aah but then All of it is only possible when the Chinese Virus is gone.

AC was already flying a B789 on the route and AI a B777... Why do you want a sub standard A332?

Well i meant for those airlines who cant afford a 789 or 777 then they can probably get a 339 ro 332 to fly this routr may be IndiGo etc..but I guess after the chinese virus issue is solved the Air Travel will be changed forever so I dunno if anything I may wish for or think should be done will ever be true...At the moment all we can do is wait for the Chinese Virus to go away !

binayak wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

A Wamos Air A332 is on its way from Bali to Madrin with total flight time of about 15 Hours which leads me to believe a 332 can very easily be used by an airline between Toronto and Delhi...Aah but then All of it is only possible when the Chinese Virus is gone.

The weight of the a/c is a key factor in determining its range .
Back in 1987 , Qantas flew an empty 747 from Sydney to London . That didn't guarantee non stop 747 ops from Australia to Europe ever.

Yeah thts also right !

All sorts of interesting traffic on flightradar24 at the moment.... repatriation flights

A Swiss A333 is doing BOM-DEL whereas an SQ A359 is doing DEL-BOM

binayak wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

A Wamos Air A332 is on its way from Bali to Madrin with total flight time of about 15 Hours which leads me to believe a 332 can very easily be used by an airline between Toronto and Delhi...Aah but then All of it is only possible when the Chinese Virus is gone.

The weight of the a/c is a key factor in determining its range .
Back in 1987 , Qantas flew an empty 747 from Sydney to London . That didn't guarantee non stop 747 ops from Australia to Europe ever.

With modification: The fuel carrying capacity over the aircraft weight.

Qantas did experimental non-stop flights, NY to Sydney, with extra fuel and reduced weight.

avier wrote:

That again brings up the question of whether the govt. , with their now judicious use of their financial reserves, would want help Air-India or SpiceJet . (?)

During this lockdown and downtime, AI would be burning through far more cash on a per day basis compared to Spice.

I hope the govt. doesnt pick winners and loosers; instead let the market decide.

The problem with Air India is that of employees; if bulk of the employees can be retired, then the problem becomes somewhat easier to resolve.

vadodara wrote:

I hope the govt. doesn't pick winners and losers; instead let the market decide.

C'mon. What kind of a statement is that? How do you think Air India survived for the last decade?

JAL 789 is making landing at BLR dunnk if its a relief flight or rrpatriation one

edealinfo wrote:

I am sorry of I am argumentative but Fuel (i.e.)ATF prices have never been lower so the reasoning is not sound. Assuming all other factors are constant (your assumption, including that the virus is not a factor for this airline), why would the airline fold now when fuel have never been lower (in the airline's existence), and not when it was the highest?

I think partially the answer is the history that it has and the promoter behind it. In its earliest avatar it was known as Air Deccan which it was known as Simplifly Deccan was the original low-cost air carrier for India. It's owner and pioneer G.Gopinath had identified low-cost city to city both for work and leisure as something that Indians can dream on. He is known to be a man of repute, honesty and integrity which can't be said of many of the promoters in the airline industry. You can read some of its old history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplifly_Deccan . I had the pleasure of using its services once or twice and found both the staff and meals more than adequate. The idea was to keep it simple, plain and not noisy. If Kingfisher didn't do the things it did, we probably would have had a brand name we could all be proud of.

In this sort of atmosphere I don't see more than two operators surviving. I don't see either leisure or business travel to start at least for 6 months. I dunno how companies are going to survive that long, especially private carriers who have all those leases to pay as well as taxes, fuel as shared by another gentleman on the same thread. Air India will be around, maybe Indigo, but I'm doubtful for others, perhaps Vistara (IIRC, most of the aircraft were bought by the Tatas, not leased, correct me if I'm wrong.), of course that means capital costs and interest costs as well. Long days ahead for the airline industry. Maybe Airports will add some sort of visitor's lounge for e.g. Lohegaon Airport where people can see military aircraft take on and off, maybe some sort of science museum which will attract childrean and people, something on the lines of Singapore Airport but yeah space needs to be there. Next 6-8 months will surely see lot of job losses not just from airline industry but associated industries as well, all those who supply the needs of the aircraft. airline industry. Logistics is another thing which will take a long time to come and probably will have more local stuff rather than from around the world i.e. local manufacturing. This is at least what I hope comes out of this, we would have to wait and watch to see what actually happens.

binayak wrote:

Air Deccan is first Indian casualty of coronavirus......
https://www.ndtv.com/business/coronavir ... ay-2206529?

Regional airlines in India never lasted long in the past so the virus is not the main issue in that case .
They just cannot absorb the losses due to high cost of fuel and ATF tax for a decade or two like the general private carriers .

Correct. These 'UDAN dependent' small carriers don't need the virus to knock them out. The structure of the UDAN scheme is such that small operators face headwinds such as (relatively) higher costs. Something that the press has pointed out in the past, when reporting in the UDAN scheme.

UDAN doesn't soar for regional airlines, three out of four close to shutting down

Industry experts had warned against small airlines operating flights on these routes.
"Regional routes can be sustainable if operated on a large scale. If you don’t have economies of scale, it is very tough to do this business," said an executive from the industry.
"Your costs are different in running a five-aircraft operation, vis-a-vis a 50-aircraft operation, the smaller the plane, the more expensive it is on a per-seat basis. The cost of the pilot, crew — everything remains the same," added the executive.

UDAN sees bumpy trajectory as 8 regional airlines suspend operations in two years: report

"The RCS scheme isn't viable by itself (especially for regional airlines) unless you change the high cost structure that's associated with airlines business, and improve infrastructure," aviation consultant Mark Martin, chief executive officer of Martin Consulting LLC, told the daily.

the article also quoted CAPA India's "Indian Aviation Outlook for FY2019"

the chances of failure of regional airlines operating older aircraft, dispersed across multiple stations without rigorous demand assessment and in the absence of a maintenance ecosystem, is significant.
"There is little or no business case for small, independent operators without scale," said the report said, adding, "RCS needs to be restructured to make it viable."

how do people see this playing out - India talking to U.S. over visa sanctions . I think it will make messier the situation that already we are in.

pune wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

I am sorry of I am argumentative but Fuel (i.e.)ATF prices have never been lower so the reasoning is not sound. Assuming all other factors are constant (your assumption, including that the virus is not a factor for this airline), why would the airline fold now when fuel have never been lower (in the airline's existence), and not when it was the highest?

I think partially the answer is the history that it has and the promoter behind it. In its earliest avatar it was known as Air Deccan which it was known as Simplifly Deccan was the original low-cost air carrier for India. It's owner and pioneer G.Gopinath had identified low-cost city to city both for work and leisure as something that Indians can dream on. He is known to be a man of repute, honesty and integrity which can't be said of many of the promoters in the airline industry. You can read some of its old history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplifly_Deccan . I had the pleasure of using its services once or twice and found both the staff and meals more than adequate. The idea was to keep it simple, plain and not noisy. If Kingfisher didn't do the things it did, we probably would have had a brand name we could all be proud of.

In this sort of atmosphere I don't see more than two operators surviving. I don't see either leisure or business travel to start at least for 6 months. I dunno how companies are going to survive that long, especially private carriers who have all those leases to pay as well as taxes, fuel as shared by another gentleman on the same thread. Air India will be around, maybe Indigo, but I'm doubtful for others, perhaps Vistara (IIRC, most of the aircraft were bought by the Tatas, not leased, correct me if I'm wrong.), of course that means capital costs and interest costs as well. Long days ahead for the airline industry. Maybe Airports will add some sort of visitor's lounge for e.g. Lohegaon Airport where people can see military aircraft take on and off, maybe some sort of science museum which will attract childrean and people, something on the lines of Singapore Airport but yeah space needs to be there. Next 6-8 months will surely see lot of job losses not just from airline industry but associated industries as well, all those who supply the needs of the aircraft. airline industry. Logistics is another thing which will take a long time to come and probably will have more local stuff rather than from around the world i.e. local manufacturing. This is at least what I hope comes out of this, we would have to wait and watch to see what actually happens.

Thanks.

pune wrote:

how do people see this playing out - India talking to U.S. over visa sanctions . I think it will make messier the situation that already we are in.

I am not surprised that Trump is p**sed. Per the link, there were 470,000 Indians who entered illegally, in one year alone (2015), and India just took back 150. Regardless of one's political affiliations, India should know those numbers don't look good.


"According to the Department of Homeland Security’s 2018 survey, Indians constitute one of the largest groups of illegal aliens in the U.S., numbering an estimated 4,70,000 who had entered by 2015.

However, the Trump administration has pushed for India to tighten its controls on emigration, and accept more deportations in the past few years. In October and November 2019, India brought back 150 citizens who had entered the U.S. illegally"

One 6E employee succumbs to COVID-19 in Chennai...

https://pragativadi.com/indigo-employee ... n-chennai/

pune wrote:

how do people see this playing out - India talking to U.S. over visa sanctions . I think it will make messier the situation that already we are in.

Messy messy! With the embassies and consulates closed there isn't much DHS can do in terms of "sanctions". The easiest will be even more scrutiny on Indian H1-B / L1 amendments and extensions. Expect a spike in RFEs and denials. The real messy part is that denial cases have to leave the US within a certain period but if there are no flights operating to India, what are those people going to do?

From the article:
an estimated 4,70,000 who had entered by 2015 does not mean in one year alone (as interpreted in a post above). It means as of 2015 there were 470,000 Indians in the US who had entered illegally. Nearly 0.5 million illegals from India in a single year is simply preposterous.

https://www.flightradar24.com/AIC162/245b5610

LHR-DEL Repat?

readytotaxi wrote:

https://www.flightradar24.com/AIC162/245b5610

LHR-DEL Repat?

I think more of a return flight after flying English citizens home

edealinfo wrote:

hohd wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

If they can exit Air Asia India now, the airline could fold, and a good riddance anyway.

Good riddance? Why? Why do you consider it differently from SpiceJet or Air India?

Indigo, SpiceJet, Go Air, Air India, TruJet are 100% owned and controlled by entities in India. Air AsiaIndia is not. Its parent's CEO is mired in corruption allegations not just in India, but also in Malaysia. If Air Asia Malaysia sells its stake to have an Indian entity in full control of Air AsiaIndia, then there are no issues. Vistara I believe is controlled by Tata which is based in India. I have no particular issues with Indigo, Air India, Spice Jet, Go Air, TruJet or Vistara and have flown all of them.

See news below, the chairman failed to show up for the corruption probe. If they are taking India lightly, then its subsidiary does not need to be in India. See the second article regarding multiple scandals involving Air Asia in Malaysia.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... tion-probe
AirAsia CEO Tony Fernandes has failed to turn up for questioning in India before the country’s Directorate of Enforcement to address allegations of the Malaysian LCC’s attempt to manipulate government policies in contravention of the Prevention of Money Laundering and the Foreign Exchange Management Act.

The directorate filed criminal money laundering charges against several AirAsia officials in May 2018 for allegedly for trying to manipulate government policies to get an international flight license for its AirAsia India venture.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/economic ... laysia-let
The budget airline last week faced bribery allegations that came to light after planemaker Airbus settled a corruption investigation into employee conduct by Britain’s Serious Fraud Office by paying US$4 billion in fines.

unnayan wrote:

readytotaxi wrote:

https://www.flightradar24.com/AIC162/245b5610

LHR-DEL Repat?

I think more of a return flight after flying English citizens home

It probably carried fresh produce from India to the UK along with stranded passengers both ways.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/covid-1 ... rs-2210221

dtw2hyd wrote:

unnayan wrote:

readytotaxi wrote:

https://www.flightradar24.com/AIC162/245b5610

LHR-DEL Repat?

I think more of a return flight after flying English citizens home

It probably carried fresh produce from India to the UK along with stranded passengers both ways.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/covid-1 ... rs-2210221

I don't think India is letting even citizens come back anymore at this point. And BA is running their own flights for British citizens. I thought I read somewhere that AI dropped Canadians off at LHR outside of whatever repat flights AC operated. Don't know if it's carrying any cargo on the way back though.

VTORD wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

unnayan wrote:

I think more of a return flight after flying English citizens home

It probably carried fresh produce from India to the UK along with stranded passengers both ways.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/covid-1 ... rs-2210221

I don't think India is letting even citizens come back anymore at this point. And BA is running their own flights for British citizens. I thought I read somewhere that AI dropped Canadians off at LHR outside of whatever repat flights AC operated. Don't know if it's carrying any cargo on the way back though.

AI allegedly signed contracts with Canada, Germany, France and Ireland. AI also operating domestic feeder flights like HYD-BOM to feed Delta's BOM-ATL. Interestingly their fair weather code-share/interline partners are MIA.

hohd wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

hohd wrote:

Indigo, SpiceJet, Go Air, Air India, TruJet are 100% owned and controlled by entities in India. Air AsiaIndia is not. Its parent's CEO is mired in corruption allegations not just in India, but also in Malaysia. If Air Asia Malaysia sells its stake to have an Indian entity in full control of Air AsiaIndia, then there are no issues. Vistara I believe is controlled by Tata which is based in India. I have no particular issues with Indigo, Air India, Spice Jet, Go Air, TruJet or Vistara and have flown all of them.

See news below, the chairman failed to show up for the corruption probe. If they are taking India lightly, then its subsidiary does not need to be in India. See the second article regarding multiple scandals involving Air Asia in Malaysia.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... tion-probe
AirAsia CEO Tony Fernandes has failed to turn up for questioning in India before the country’s Directorate of Enforcement to address allegations of the Malaysian LCC’s attempt to manipulate government policies in contravention of the Prevention of Money Laundering and the Foreign Exchange Management Act.

The directorate filed criminal money laundering charges against several AirAsia officials in May 2018 for allegedly for trying to manipulate government policies to get an international flight license for its AirAsia India venture.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/economic ... laysia-let
The budget airline last week faced bribery allegations that came to light after planemaker Airbus settled a corruption investigation into employee conduct by Britain’s Serious Fraud Office by paying US$4 billion in fines.

1. So, you are fine with Vistara not being 100% owned by an Indian entity but you strenuously oppose Air Asia India even though the Tata's ("India's" in your words) holding in both the airlines are an identical 51%. Go figure!

2. You have failed to clarify that Tony Fernandes was cleared in the Airbus probe. You have already assumed he is completely guilty ignoring the basics of law which is the presumption of innocence.

3. Tony will never get a fair trial in India which is why he hasn't bothered to go there. You may recall that Rajan Pillai, the former CEO of Britannia (who I believe was a Singapore citizen or resident) even died in police custody. Only a fool will rely on India's police or legal system and Tony is no fool.

4. It is funny that you bring up corruption as though India has the highest standards. You got to be kidding!

5. "Manipulate government policies"? Everyone was advocating and lobbying against the Government's stupid-rule that one had to have 20 aircraft and had to be in existence for 5 years, before being allowed to fly international. What's wrong in lobbying against stupid policies? As an analogy, if there is a rule that you are allowed to drive your car out-of-state only if you have 20 cars and it is 5 years since you first owned any of those cars, would you not vehemently lobby against such foolishness? I would even argue that it would be stupid to keep one's mouth shut and not lobby against such rules.

5. Didn't the Government review and approve the license before it is approved? If anyone is to be charged, it is those in Government that approved something, if they weren't supposed to approve it, not the applicant. Further, you have not provided "evidence" indicating that Air Asia wan't eligible for the license. What you are rehashing is Subramanium Swamy's preposterous theory that when the government allowed 49% foreign airline investment in India airline companies, it was only for "existing" airlines and not for "new" airlines.

1. Vistara is controlled by an Indian entity, Tatas and there was no doubt about Indian entity management control. Why is the Tata group desperately trying to exit Air Asia India (according to your post). Tata group only recently took the stake up to 51% in Air Asia India and that too only because of management control allegations.
2. Tony is not a paragon of virtue, everyone knows that he is corrupt, including the Malyasian Government. IF he is not guilty why is he avoiding the Indian regulators.
3. If Tony does not want to come to India, that is his prerogative, if he is not there to answer any allegations, then it could be assumed that he is guilty and actions could be taken against his subsidiary airline.
4. Yes India is corrupt, so what, just allow more corruption ?

5. Yes some government policies are stupid and I have not advocated not lobbying against it. Anyway 20 aircraft was there to protect AI and Jet and I did not recall any airline in India - Indigo or Spice jet or GoAir lobbying against it. Instead they accepted and proceeded with acquiring 20 aircraft and waited 5 years. Air Asia India lobbied against it (by attempting to or bribing officials) and got caught in the controversy.
6. Yes government did approve, but govt can change the rules any time after getting input from the industry. Technically Air Asia India was eligible, but the way they have operated (until mid 2019) makes it clear that airline was effectively controlled by a foreign entity. It takes time to change rules. And importantly, all airlines in India - Indigo, Spice, AI, Go Air, Jet Airways were against Air Asia India with the way they are operating. They could have selfish reasons, one less competitor to worry,

Before you go further, I don't support Modi blindly, I have no particular agenda, and I wish AI was privatized long time ago and have no particular love for Spice Jet either.

hohd wrote:

1. Vistara is controlled by an Indian entity, Tatas and there was no doubt about Indian entity management control. Why is the Tata group desperately trying to exit Air Asia India (according to your post). Tata group only recently took the stake up to 51% in Air Asia India and that too only because of management control allegations.
2. Tony is not a paragon of virtue, everyone knows that he is corrupt, including the Malyasian Government. IF he is not guilty why is he avoiding the Indian regulators.
3. If Tony does not want to come to India, that is his prerogative, if he is not there to answer any allegations, then it could be assumed that he is guilty and actions could be taken against his subsidiary airline.
4. Yes India is corrupt, so what, just allow more corruption ?

5. Yes some government policies are stupid and I have not advocated not lobbying against it. Anyway 20 aircraft was there to protect AI and Jet and I did not recall any airline in India - Indigo or Spice jet or GoAir lobbying against it. Instead they accepted and proceeded with acquiring 20 aircraft and waited 5 years. Air Asia India lobbied against it (by attempting to or bribing officials) and got caught in the controversy.
6. Yes government did approve, but govt can change the rules any time after getting input from the industry. Technically Air Asia India was eligible, but the way they have operated (until mid 2019) makes it clear that airline was effectively controlled by a foreign entity. It takes time to change rules. And importantly, all airlines in India - Indigo, Spice, AI, Go Air, Jet Airways were against Air Asia India with the way they are operating. They could have selfish reasons, one less competitor to worry,

Before you go further, I don't support Modi blindly, I have no particular agenda, and I wish AI was privatized long time ago and have no particular love for Spice Jet either.

>>>>Tata group only recently took the stake up to 51% in Air Asia India and that too only because of management control allegations.
It was always effectively controlled by the Tatas. They previously directly held 48%, and 3% was held by senior Tata directors. There was an agreement that the Tatas would hold the Chairman position and Air Asia would hold the CEO position, just as it is with Vistara. Just because Air Asia has a licensing agreement doesn't mean it has effective control. Licensing agreements are used widely in the business world and come in various forms. Nothing strange about the agreement Air Asia had. It is Subramanium Swamy (SS) who made up stories about effective control of Air Asia to play the game that he is good at -- free publicity. Just so you are aware, SS is using Air Asia as a proxy to get to his real target Vistara. You have inadvertently become a pawn in promoting SS's agenda not realizing that you are indirectly taking a stab at Vistara.

>>>>Before you go further, I don't support Modi blindly
What has this conversation about AirAsia India or Vistara got to do with the PM? I don't get it.

>>>>Why is the Tata group desperately trying to exit Air Asia India (according to your post).
Because they would rather lose money on one company rather than two (they have now figured that running an airline is a losing proposition).

>>>IF he is not guilty why is he avoiding the Indian regulators.
He was not called in by "regulators" but some Indian investigative agency, which cannot be trusted.

>>> if he is not there to answer any allegations, then it could be assumed that he is guilty and actions could be taken against his subsidiary airline.
This logic is erroneous and won't hold legally if a country is truly democratic, has a free press (i.e., without retribution if one takes a position opposite that of the Government), and the judiciary is independent.

>>Yes government did approve, but govt can change the rules any time .
Again, faulty logic. This is almost as foolish as retrospective taxation......oh, wait a minute, didn't that happen in India?

Please can we change the name of this thread to "Vistara discussions"? Thanks.