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Dutchy
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Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:01 pm

Just saw a youtube clip about the Ryanair's 2011's MoU C919 for a 200 seat variant. Some interesting points raised.

Link to youtube clip

Image

Link to picture

Link to press release, 2011 Paris airshow


I think the Chinese option will be good in the future, I don't think the C919 will be it. And we will never see the C919 in Ryanai's colors. Although it is an intriguing thought that Ryanair would operate a Chinese plane. With such an order, the Chinese might be able to have a proper maintenance facility and supply chain in place to keep these plains in the sky at the same rate as an Airbus or a Boeing.

So what do you all think, a third comparator will be good for the industry as a whole, will Ryanair actually place an order?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:14 pm

I don't see Ryanair ordering it in its current variant. Too small, only seats up to 168.

That said, if the A320 and 737 families are any indication, this is a 50+ year project that will see numerous minor and major updates along the way to keep it relevant. It is only a matter of time before they stretch it. For now the Chinese are content with just establishing it in production and service with Chinese carriers. They already forced over a thousand of these on local carriers, financiers and leasing companies. By the time these have been delivered and entered service, the product and aftermarket support will have matured and improved.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:15 pm

Ryanair has signed the MoU with the 200 seat variant in mind, not this variant indeed.

So you say in 5 or ten years after it has established regular service? Interesting thought.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
DUSZRH
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:21 pm

Read the press release: it’s an MoU to discuss future developments of the C919. Whatever that means. No indication of an order.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:45 pm

Dutchy wrote:
So you say in 5 or ten years after it has established regular service? Interesting thought.


It's going to take at least 5 years to develop a stretch anyway.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:01 pm

DUSZRH wrote:
Read the press release: it’s an MoU to discuss future developments of the C919. Whatever that means. No indication of an order.

That is all, all promise to answer the phone.
If the C919 meets performance promises, including utilization and dispatch reliability, then FR will negotiate.

I wouldn't expect any serious discussion until 5+ years after EIS.

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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:08 pm

After Ryanair found themselves ghosted by Airbus, they needed someone else to keep Boeing honest. However remote the chances are of FR ever taking delivery of this, or any other Chinese model, it probably serves the intended purpose.
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Dutchy
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:23 pm

B777LRF wrote:
After Ryanair found themselves ghosted by Airbus, they needed someone else to keep Boeing honest. However remote the chances are of FR ever taking delivery of this, or any other Chinese model, it probably serves the intended purpose.


That's what I found interesting. They already have many MAX's on order, and yet Michael O’Leary, just this month, still has shown interest in this.
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Dutchy
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:24 pm

lightsaber wrote:
DUSZRH wrote:
Read the press release: it’s an MoU to discuss future developments of the C919. Whatever that means. No indication of an order.

That is all, all promise to answer the phone.


According the press release, they were going to do a bit more than to just answer the phone:

“Ryanair is pleased to sign this MOU with COMAC, and to work closely with them to develop a 200 seat C919 aircraft. We are pleased that there is now a real alternative to Boeing and Airbus, and we are seriously interested in the development of a 200 seat variant of the C919 aircraft, and we look forward to its introduction into commercial service from 2018 onwards.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tu204
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:07 pm

Dutchy wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
DUSZRH wrote:
Read the press release: it’s an MoU to discuss future developments of the C919. Whatever that means. No indication of an order.

That is all, all promise to answer the phone.


According the press release, they were going to do a bit more than to just answer the phone:

“Ryanair is pleased to sign this MOU with COMAC, and to work closely with them to develop a 200 seat C919 aircraft. We are pleased that there is now a real alternative to Boeing and Airbus, and we are seriously interested in the development of a 200 seat variant of the C919 aircraft, and we look forward to its introduction into commercial service from 2018 onwards.


Introduction from 2018 onwards? How old is this information?
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Dutchy
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:17 pm

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
That is all, all promise to answer the phone.


According the press release, they were going to do a bit more than to just answer the phone:

“Ryanair is pleased to sign this MOU with COMAC, and to work closely with them to develop a 200 seat C919 aircraft. We are pleased that there is now a real alternative to Boeing and Airbus, and we are seriously interested in the development of a 200 seat variant of the C919 aircraft, and we look forward to its introduction into commercial service from 2018 onwards.


Introduction from 2018 onwards? How old is this information?


As said in the first post: 2011, that's why I was quite interested that Micheal O'Leary says he is/will engage with COMAC and this isn't dismissed.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
petertenthije
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:34 pm

You’re a day early for april fools.
Attamottamotta!
 
Sokes
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:03 am

I assume Western suppliers are allowed to make deals, but only until it starts selling?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
IrishLessor
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:49 am

I think Ryanair are unlikely to actually buy this plane for its own operation, but with the fleet of Airbus still relatively small (Lauda), what's to say that at an eye watering price with a 100 guarantees put in place that it wouldn't be used to equip say Lauda. It certainly would strengthen their hand opposite Boeing. All that said the fall out from CV could change their plans. Boeing clearly isn't in a position to trade on 737s, so no mega discount going to happen there.....
 
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Antaras
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:19 am

Probably an imaginary deal to "scare" and "encourage" Boeing to make a better deal for Ryan?
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lightsaber
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:43 am

Dutchy wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
DUSZRH wrote:
Read the press release: it’s an MoU to discuss future developments of the C919. Whatever that means. No indication of an order.

That is all, all promise to answer the phone.


According the press release, they were going to do a bit more than to just answer the phone:

“Ryanair is pleased to sign this MOU with COMAC, and to work closely with them to develop a 200 seat C919 aircraft. We are pleased that there is now a real alternative to Boeing and Airbus, and we are seriously interested in the development of a 200 seat variant of the C919 aircraft, and we look forward to its introduction into commercial service from 2018 onwards.

Please explain how an announcement two years past due is a bit more than answering the phone. MoL is a brash negotiator.

Aircraft purchase is only about 12% to 15% of the cost of flying. Until the C919 demonstrates high dispatch reliability at high utilization, FR could be setting itself up for bankruptcy.

It will take the C919 proving itself in service for 5+ years before FR could order. Considering how EIS keeps slipping:

Initial plan was a 2016 EIS (see Leeham link below,)

Earlier 2018 EIS:
https://www.aeronewstv.com/en/industry/ ... iffer.html

A year ago planned 2021
https://leehamnews.com/2019/01/04/2019- ... -progress/

In my opinion, testing has not been on track for a 2021 EIS. Like the ARJ-21, there will be many delays. I truly wonder if their will be a late production certificate and super slow production too.

None of the MA-60 made it through the first HMV. The MA-600 was supposed to be the fix. Now at MA-700 being the fix.

Reliable aircraft support is hard. See Su100. Embraer and Bombardier did well, but it has been worked.

After the C919 demonstrates FR levels of utilization at 99.3%+ dispatch reliability, let's talk about FR being serious.


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Vasu
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:23 am

Guys... this is just an April fools joke!
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Ryanair and the C919 Memorandum of Understanding

Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:23 pm

petertenthije wrote:
You’re a day early for april fools.


it's Five O'Clock somewhere...

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