DobboDobbo wrote:tphuang wrote:DobboDobbo wrote:
Therein lies the fault in your argument.
VS has traded for 36 years through 9/11, SARS, MERS and the 2008 crash surviving each of those. The correct start point is therefore that VS is demonstrably viable absent Covid.
If you want to argue that VS is unviable because of Covid, then I’d say every airline under the sun is not viable.
No one is pretending that all will go back to normal when this is over - or course it won’t. The point is to give airlines the space to restructure to face this new normal going forward.
Why does it matter how viable vs was 20 years ago? The fact is that their two most recently reported years had negative margins. And now the market is heading to its worst crisis in possibly its entire history. What justification is there to keep around the weakest airline that has neither cash nor assets to back the loans. At some point, the loan would have to make sense commercially.
When other airlines get support, they normally have positive cash flow and assets to secure the loans.
I’m not saying the relevant issue is whether it was viable it was 20 years ago - the relevant issue is whether it was viable prior to Covid-19 and in any sensible measure it was. If you are forming your view having (once again) ignored VS’s financial structure - in particular how VS returns value to its shareholders - that is for you but it undermines your opinion.
If you keep ignoring the relevant facts, it doesn’t assist your argument it undermines it.
The wider benefits to the U.K. taxpayer and society from VS have been explained at length in this thread and I won’t repeat them here.
It was losing money for 2 years before this. Unless you think it can stop paying Virgin group for royalty or money to DL for a JV partnership that clearly benefits DL more, then it's clearly stuck with what it has. And this current brand of business was not profitable when other airlines are generating all time high margins. VS needs to show it can change its business brand.
Why doesn't VS find a business model that can stop paying DL and Virgin group so much money and doesn't compete against BA's core business as much rather than complaining all day? As I said, lanes have been cleared for it to become more of a LH leisure/VFR carrier. Maybe it should try to do that instead of just taking orders from DL.
No, please keep explaining the other benefits. Because those arguments do not have validity. People keep making the argument that # of jobs is dependent on having one more airline around, when the reality is that the number of jobs is dependent on capacity level of the airlines. It's actually better for public if one of the airlines is not giving any minimal money it makes as royalty payment to virgin group or to its masters in America.