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ddaly241
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Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:25 pm

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas with Newark Airport's future. We know that the new terminal 1 is being currently built, and plans for a new airtrain and new terminal 2. I was wondering if there are plans for a new terminal 3 in the future to replace terminal C.
 
stlgph
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:44 pm

Of course there will be. As long as you can sucker some politicians into believing you can do it for $150 million and then come in billing 3 or 4 $billion -- you're set!

It's the New York way.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:06 pm

I honestly don’t think there would be any benefit for them to just do T 1 and 2 and leave C there.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:18 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I honestly don’t think there would be any benefit for them to just do T 1 and 2 and leave C there.


You're right, I don't think there would be any benefit, I wonder where they would build terminal 3 to replace terminal c.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:39 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I honestly don’t think there would be any benefit for them to just do T 1 and 2 and leave C there.


You're right, I don't think there would be any benefit, I wonder where they would build terminal 3 to replace terminal c.


I’d assume pretty close to where the current terminal C sits. Now my question is if the new Terminal 2 would be somewhat to scale as the renderings show.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:44 pm

IMO, the priority right now should go to replacing the AirTrain. It's horribly slow and inefficient, especially if you are coming from the Rail Link station. I don't know when the Path extension is supposed to open but I would hope that the PANYNJ would prioritize the AirTrain first, given how ridership on the system will likely explode once the Path opens.
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FSDan
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:44 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas with Newark Airport's future.


I heard PANYNJ wants to close down EWR and move all ops to JFK. They're going to build a pedestrian footbridge from the EWR Amtrak station to the new JFK T6 so passengers can still easily get there from metro Philly and Northern NJ.
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ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:49 pm

FSDan wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas with Newark Airport's future.


I heard PANYNJ wants to close down EWR and move all ops to JFK. They're going to build a pedestrian footbridge from the EWR Amtrak station to the new JFK T6 so passengers can still easily get there from metro Philly and Northern NJ.


Is there a link for EWR closing down?
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:53 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas with Newark Airport's future.


I heard PANYNJ wants to close down EWR and move all ops to JFK. They're going to build a pedestrian footbridge from the EWR Amtrak station to the new JFK T6 so passengers can still easily get there from metro Philly and Northern NJ.


Is there a link for EWR closing down?


Yes, it's on the AA website. Apparently, American is opening a 700+ flight a day hub at JFK and buying out UA.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:53 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
Just wondering if anyone has any ideas with Newark Airport's future.


I heard PANYNJ wants to close down EWR and move all ops to JFK. They're going to build a pedestrian footbridge from the EWR Amtrak station to the new JFK T6 so passengers can still easily get there from metro Philly and Northern NJ.


Is there a link for EWR closing down?

Yes, it's at aprilfoolsdayjoke.com
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:56 pm

Bricktop wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I heard PANYNJ wants to close down EWR and move all ops to JFK. They're going to build a pedestrian footbridge from the EWR Amtrak station to the new JFK T6 so passengers can still easily get there from metro Philly and Northern NJ.


Is there a link for EWR closing down?

Yes, it's at aprilfoolsdayjoke.com


lol
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:58 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I heard PANYNJ wants to close down EWR and move all ops to JFK. They're going to build a pedestrian footbridge from the EWR Amtrak station to the new JFK T6 so passengers can still easily get there from metro Philly and Northern NJ.


Is there a link for EWR closing down?


Yes, it's on the AA website. Apparently, American is opening a 700+ flight a day hub at JFK and buying out UA.


Wait are you being serious, or is this a joke. lol
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:59 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
They will close Newark port, build new cargo facilities and 3rd & 4th runways
Then close Weequahic and build 5/6th runways
The area between central and west runways will build a new centralised terminal
A new high speed railways system will connect airport with Boston and DC


Where did you find this? Is there a link?
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:34 pm

Any other ideas, that you guys have?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:54 pm

I think everything is on indefinite hold

Unlike JFK, the EWR rebuilding is heavily reliant on government funding via the Port Authority. The only Terminal with an airline willing to invest several billion in a new facility is Terminal C.

The Port Authority and its respective states will be very cash strapped going forward.

Terminal 1 will finish. Everything else will be delayed or scaled back
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:06 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I think everything is on indefinite hold

Unlike JFK, the EWR rebuilding is heavily reliant on government funding via the Port Authority. The only Terminal with an airline willing to invest several billion in a new facility is Terminal C.

The Port Authority and its respective states will be very cash strapped going forward.

Terminal 1 will finish. Everything else will be delayed or scaled back


If United invest into the new terminal C, EWR may be the biggest United hub if they expand and get more additional gates into a new facility in the new terminal C.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:07 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
I think everything is on indefinite hold

Unlike JFK, the EWR rebuilding is heavily reliant on government funding via the Port Authority. The only Terminal with an airline willing to invest several billion in a new facility is Terminal C.

The Port Authority and its respective states will be very cash strapped going forward.

Terminal 1 will finish. Everything else will be delayed or scaled back


If United invest into the new terminal C, EWR may be the biggest United hub if they expand and get more additional gates into a new facility in the new terminal C.


Also, people have been saying that if terminal C had a new facitliy, then they would have to expand it over runway 29/11.
 
JFKIceman
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:10 am

from my understanding and what ive seen. terminal 2 will be built where terminal A stands now then they are supposed to erect parking garages and place terminal 3 in the short term parking lot. Then space out the 4's/22's so they they can operate simultaneously. ( if im not mistaken they have to be a mile apart for them to operate simultaneously) As of right now the arrivals and departures need to be staggered
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:40 am

JFKIceman wrote:
...Then space out the 4's/22's so they they can operate simultaneously. ( if im not mistaken they have to be a mile apart for them to operate simultaneously) As of right now the arrivals and departures need to be staggered


There is no FAA separation requirement to operate arrivals versus departures on the 4s in VFR conditions unless there is a local procedure that prohibits it. LAX runs each complex simultaneously all day or night long. Only restriction in rolling departures is IFR weather or if arrival is not visible to tower controller...not totally sure on the actual ruling on that and if it needs to be one or both. Without visual separation the departure cannot roll if the arrival on the parallel is within 2 miles of the threshold.

For EWR to run non-PRM (precision radar monitoring), simultaneous IFR arrivals to the 4s, the centerlines would need to be at least 4,300 feet apart. With PRM monitoring there would need to be a minimum of a 2,000' NTZ (non-transgression zone) between runways. I don't see EWR ever getting that kind of space. For the 4s to run simultaneous, VFR arrivals, the centerlines would need to be 2,500' apart otherwise they would need to apply wake turbulence separation standards.

I worked FAA and ICAO airports so I might a few of the different rules mixed up a bit but bottom line, I don't think EWR could ever move a runway far enough to make any difference.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:42 am

ddaly241 wrote:
If United invest into the new terminal C, EWR may be the biggest United hub if they expand and get more additional gates into a new facility in the new terminal C.


By flight count last summer, EWR was a long, long way behind ORD - and IAH and DEN. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420611
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:48 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
If United invest into the new terminal C, EWR may be the biggest United hub if they expand and get more additional gates into a new facility in the new terminal C.


By flight count last summer, EWR was a long, long way behind ORD - and IAH and DEN. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420611


Right now, EWR is a long way behind those airports, but probably in the future probably before 2030, they might be the biggest United hub if they invest in a new terminal C and that new terminal would definitely have additional gates since United is very corrupt in the current terminal C that they use.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:49 am

I found this on the Path Extension and creating a EWR City

https://bloustein.rutgers.edu/wp-conten ... ng2018.pdf
 
FSDan
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:41 am

ddaly241 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
By flight count last summer, EWR was a long, long way behind ORD - and IAH and DEN. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420611


Right now, EWR is a long way behind those airports, but probably in the future probably before 2030, they might be the biggest United hub if they invest in a new terminal C and that new terminal would definitely have additional gates since United is very corrupt in the current terminal C that they use.


Don't get your hopes up. EWR doesn't have the runway capacity to come close to matching what ORD, DEN, or IAH can offer operationally. EWR has 2 roughly north-south parallel runways plus 1 east-west runway. IAH has 3 parallel east-west runways plus 2 parallel north-south(ish) runways, DEN has 4 parallel north-south plus 2 parallel east-west runways, and ORD has 5 (soon 6) parallel east-west runways.

A reasonable hope for EWR is that UA keeps their departure count in the 420-440 range long term and continues to upgauge flights as demand comes back after the crisis. The new terminal will vastly improve the passenger experience through the airport, but it won't do anything to grow the runway or airspace capacity which are the true limiting factors at EWR.
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ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:49 am

FSDan wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
By flight count last summer, EWR was a long, long way behind ORD - and IAH and DEN. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420611


Right now, EWR is a long way behind those airports, but probably in the future probably before 2030, they might be the biggest United hub if they invest in a new terminal C and that new terminal would definitely have additional gates since United is very corrupt in the current terminal C that they use.


Don't get your hopes up. EWR doesn't have the runway capacity to come close to matching what ORD, DEN, or IAH can offer operationally. EWR has 2 roughly north-south parallel runways plus 1 east-west runway. IAH has 3 parallel east-west runways plus 2 parallel north-south(ish) runways, DEN has 4 parallel north-south plus 2 parallel east-west runways, and ORD has 5 (soon 6) parallel east-west runways.

A reasonable hope for EWR is that UA keeps their departure count in the 420-440 range long term and continues to upgauge flights as demand comes back after the crisis. The new terminal will vastly improve the passenger experience through the airport, but it won't do anything to grow the runway or airspace capacity which are the true limiting factors at EWR.


If EWR had new additional runways, where would they be located?
 
cpl22586
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:08 am

ddaly241 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:

Right now, EWR is a long way behind those airports, but probably in the future probably before 2030, they might be the biggest United hub if they invest in a new terminal C and that new terminal would definitely have additional gates since United is very corrupt in the current terminal C that they use.


Don't get your hopes up. EWR doesn't have the runway capacity to come close to matching what ORD, DEN, or IAH can offer operationally. EWR has 2 roughly north-south parallel runways plus 1 east-west runway. IAH has 3 parallel east-west runways plus 2 parallel north-south(ish) runways, DEN has 4 parallel north-south plus 2 parallel east-west runways, and ORD has 5 (soon 6) parallel east-west runways.

A reasonable hope for EWR is that UA keeps their departure count in the 420-440 range long term and continues to upgauge flights as demand comes back after the crisis. The new terminal will vastly improve the passenger experience through the airport, but it won't do anything to grow the runway or airspace capacity which are the true limiting factors at EWR.


If EWR had new additional runways, where would they be located?


EWR adding another runway would be highly unlikely but the only place I could think of that they would be able to add one would be over the New Jersey Turnpike but the cost would probably be astronomical.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:17 am

ddaly241 wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
They will close Newark port, build new cargo facilities and 3rd & 4th runways
Then close Weequahic and build 5/6th runways
The area between central and west runways will build a new centralised terminal
A new high speed railways system will connect airport with Boston and DC


Where did you find this? Is there a link?


According to chunhimlai, EWR could build runways when closing Newark port and weequahic
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:21 am

Airtran is a disaster in winter. That should have been there top priority imho.

I can't even count the number of times the airtran has ruined my nights in winter. PANYNJ Get a monorail that can handle cold weather!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:24 am

PS people. If you read some massive crazy sounding plan on April fool's day on a.net it's someone thinking they are funny.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:28 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
PS people. If you read some massive crazy sounding plan on April fool's day on a.net it's someone thinking they are funny.


facts
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:28 am

what if EWR build a new runway west of runways 4/22 and shift all the terminals west just like they are doing to the new terminal 1.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:32 am

ddaly241 wrote:
what if EWR build a new runway west of runways 4/22 and shift all the terminals west just like they are doing to the new terminal 1.


https://www.google.com/search?q=newark+ ... nTuD3jYTKM
 
United857
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:36 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
JFKIceman wrote:
...Then space out the 4's/22's so they they can operate simultaneously. ( if im not mistaken they have to be a mile apart for them to operate simultaneously) As of right now the arrivals and departures need to be staggered


There is no FAA separation requirement to operate arrivals versus departures on the 4s in VFR conditions unless there is a local procedure that prohibits it. LAX runs each complex simultaneously all day or night long. Only restriction in rolling departures is IFR weather or if arrival is not visible to tower controller...not totally sure on the actual ruling on that and if it needs to be one or both. Without visual separation the departure cannot roll if the arrival on the parallel is within 2 miles of the threshold.

For EWR to run non-PRM (precision radar monitoring), simultaneous IFR arrivals to the 4s, the centerlines would need to be at least 4,300 feet apart. With PRM monitoring there would need to be a minimum of a 2,000' NTZ (non-transgression zone) between runways. I don't see EWR ever getting that kind of space. For the 4s to run simultaneous, VFR arrivals, the centerlines would need to be 2,500' apart otherwise they would need to apply wake turbulence separation standards.

I worked FAA and ICAO airports so I might a few of the different rules mixed up a bit but bottom line, I don't think EWR could ever move a runway far enough to make any difference.

Even if you get the 4,300 ft separation between centerlines, you still have the issue of routing traffic on and off 4R/22L under simultaneous operations with 4L/22R. The problem is that the airspace immediately to the east of the airport over the bay and Hudson is occupied with LGA arrivals coming in from the south at just 4000-6000 ft, and immedately east of that is JFK departure/arrival traffic. This means that getting a separate 2nd traffic pattern to the east for 4L/22R is not possible. I don't think the FAA is going to allow simultaneous departures if aircraft from both runways need to turn left after takeoff, and it's not going to be possible to get 2 aircraft into position at the same time for simultaneous arrivals from a single approach path. By the same token, these airspace constraints mean a 3rd parallel runway will not be usable to its full capacity without compromising aircraft movements on existing runways due to the lack of airspace to allow them to operate independently.
A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A346 A388 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748 B752 B764 B772 B77L B77W B788 B789 CRJ2 E145 E75S E75L E190 MD88 MD90
AA AC B6 CA CX CZ DL EK FM HU JL KA LH LX MU NH NK TK UA US
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:42 am

United857 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
JFKIceman wrote:
...Then space out the 4's/22's so they they can operate simultaneously. ( if im not mistaken they have to be a mile apart for them to operate simultaneously) As of right now the arrivals and departures need to be staggered


There is no FAA separation requirement to operate arrivals versus departures on the 4s in VFR conditions unless there is a local procedure that prohibits it. LAX runs each complex simultaneously all day or night long. Only restriction in rolling departures is IFR weather or if arrival is not visible to tower controller...not totally sure on the actual ruling on that and if it needs to be one or both. Without visual separation the departure cannot roll if the arrival on the parallel is within 2 miles of the threshold.

For EWR to run non-PRM (precision radar monitoring), simultaneous IFR arrivals to the 4s, the centerlines would need to be at least 4,300 feet apart. With PRM monitoring there would need to be a minimum of a 2,000' NTZ (non-transgression zone) between runways. I don't see EWR ever getting that kind of space. For the 4s to run simultaneous, VFR arrivals, the centerlines would need to be 2,500' apart otherwise they would need to apply wake turbulence separation standards.

I worked FAA and ICAO airports so I might a few of the different rules mixed up a bit but bottom line, I don't think EWR could ever move a runway far enough to make any difference.

Even if you get the 4,300 ft separation between centerlines, you still have the issue of routing traffic on and off 4R/22L under simultaneous operations with 4L/22R. The problem is that the airspace immediately to the east of the airport over the bay and Hudson is occupied with LGA arrivals coming in from the south at just 4000-6000 ft, and immedately east of that is JFK departure/arrival traffic. This means that getting a separate 2nd traffic pattern to the east for 4L/22R is not possible. I don't think the FAA is going to allow simultaneous departures if aircraft from both runways need to turn left after takeoff, and it's not going to be possible to get 2 aircraft into position at the same time for simultaneous arrivals from a single approach path. By the same token, these airspace constraints mean a 3rd parallel runway will not be usable to its full capacity without compromising aircraft movements on existing runways due to the lack of airspace.


So how is EWR going to get another runway with lack of airspace? Should they build another runway east/west.
 
deltairlines
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:44 am

A new AirTrain would be much appreciated. I took NJ Transit to EWR on March 16 (right when Social Distancing was coming in) and we had 8 people in our little monorail pod...I was definitely aware of it.

Fortunately security was empty at TSA/Clear and Terminal C was empty that day as I had a beer before my flight.
 
wn676
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:35 am

ddaly241 wrote:
United857 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:

There is no FAA separation requirement to operate arrivals versus departures on the 4s in VFR conditions unless there is a local procedure that prohibits it. LAX runs each complex simultaneously all day or night long. Only restriction in rolling departures is IFR weather or if arrival is not visible to tower controller...not totally sure on the actual ruling on that and if it needs to be one or both. Without visual separation the departure cannot roll if the arrival on the parallel is within 2 miles of the threshold.

For EWR to run non-PRM (precision radar monitoring), simultaneous IFR arrivals to the 4s, the centerlines would need to be at least 4,300 feet apart. With PRM monitoring there would need to be a minimum of a 2,000' NTZ (non-transgression zone) between runways. I don't see EWR ever getting that kind of space. For the 4s to run simultaneous, VFR arrivals, the centerlines would need to be 2,500' apart otherwise they would need to apply wake turbulence separation standards.

I worked FAA and ICAO airports so I might a few of the different rules mixed up a bit but bottom line, I don't think EWR could ever move a runway far enough to make any difference.

Even if you get the 4,300 ft separation between centerlines, you still have the issue of routing traffic on and off 4R/22L under simultaneous operations with 4L/22R. The problem is that the airspace immediately to the east of the airport over the bay and Hudson is occupied with LGA arrivals coming in from the south at just 4000-6000 ft, and immedately east of that is JFK departure/arrival traffic. This means that getting a separate 2nd traffic pattern to the east for 4L/22R is not possible. I don't think the FAA is going to allow simultaneous departures if aircraft from both runways need to turn left after takeoff, and it's not going to be possible to get 2 aircraft into position at the same time for simultaneous arrivals from a single approach path. By the same token, these airspace constraints mean a 3rd parallel runway will not be usable to its full capacity without compromising aircraft movements on existing runways due to the lack of airspace.


So how is EWR going to get another runway with lack of airspace? Should they build another runway east/west.


Newark doesn’t need another runway. The only thing worth salvaging from that plan are the end-around taxiways. Beyond that, the focus should be on replacing the AirTrain and rebuilding the terminal core and roadway network.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:40 pm

Overall from what I'm hearing, the focus for EWR is to first complete construction of the new terminal 1, and also start planning on the new terminal 2. Yes, a new airtrain is needed, and plans have been discussed by the port authority and was approved and construction will start in 2021, and will be complete by 2024 or 2025.
 
codc10
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:49 pm

There were draft plans and preliminary discussions with the PANYNJ for additional gates at C (call it a C-4) but with UAL emerging a ~20% smaller carrier, I doubt this will happen. The gates would not be to add flights, but to allow additional mainline parking positions, as the operation is upgauged and overall number of gates, but not flights, is reduced. It will take UAL at least 5 years to get back to 2019 level, and by then a Terminal C replacement could be in the cards.

An all-new runway at EWR (e.g., not incrementally wider separation of the existing parallels) is unlikely, and if it ever happens, would be 20-25 years into the future. Despite A.net pipe dreams, Port Newark isn't going anywhere, nor can the infrastructure to the east simply be "paved over" or "tunneled below". A runway to the west is marginally more realistic, but falls directly in line of residential areas along the extended centerline in both directions. I don't see that as terribly realistic, either.

If there are any changes to EWR, it will be a closing of 11/29, which would create an operational challenge for about 4 months out of the year, when 29 is regularly used for arrivals due to winds out of the west.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:05 pm

codc10 wrote:
There were draft plans and preliminary discussions with the PANYNJ for additional gates at C (call it a C-4) but with UAL emerging a ~20% smaller carrier, I doubt this will happen. The gates would not be to add flights, but to allow additional mainline parking positions, as the operation is upgauged and overall number of gates, but not flights, is reduced. It will take UAL at least 5 years to get back to 2019 level, and by then a Terminal C replacement could be in the cards.

An all-new runway at EWR (e.g., not incrementally wider separation of the existing parallels) is unlikely, and if it ever happens, would be 20-25 years into the future. Despite A.net pipe dreams, Port Newark isn't going anywhere, nor can the infrastructure to the east simply be "paved over" or "tunneled below". A runway to the west is marginally more realistic, but falls directly in line of residential areas along the extended centerline in both directions. I don't see that as terribly realistic, either.

If there are any changes to EWR, it will be a closing of 11/29, which would create an operational challenge for about 4 months out of the year, when 29 is regularly used for arrivals due to winds out of the west.


If there was a new terminal C to replace the current terminal C, how many gates would it have?
 
T5towbar
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:10 pm

codc10 wrote:
There were draft plans and preliminary discussions with the PANYNJ for additional gates at C (call it a C-4) but with UAL emerging a ~20% smaller carrier, I doubt this will happen. The gates would not be to add flights, but to allow additional mainline parking positions, as the operation is upgauged and overall number of gates, but not flights, is reduced. It will take UAL at least 5 years to get back to 2019 level, and by then a Terminal C replacement could be in the cards.

An all-new runway at EWR (e.g., not incrementally wider separation of the existing parallels) is unlikely, and if it ever happens, would be 20-25 years into the future. Despite A.net pipe dreams, Port Newark isn't going anywhere, nor can the infrastructure to the east simply be "paved over" or "tunneled below". A runway to the west is marginally more realistic, but falls directly in line of residential areas along the extended centerline in both directions. I don't see that as terribly realistic, either.

If there are any changes to EWR, it will be a closing of 11/29, which would create an operational challenge for about 4 months out of the year, when 29 is regularly used for arrivals due to winds out of the west.



Technically, there has always been a "C-4". It's called the Hardstand. Express ops (since the ATR days) have been in that area. There is the training building there, but since Terminal A (A-2) has no more flight activity, and is just for mainline parking only, and from what I understand, E145's will still run out of the hardstand (130V thru Z) depending on flight activity.

This situation has changed a lot of plans. Will UA have enough flight activity to warrant a return to Terminal A. Or will UA get any gates in the new Terminal One?
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
codc10
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:23 pm

T5towbar wrote:
Technically, there has always been a "C-4". It's called the Hardstand. Express ops (since the ATR days) have been in that area. There is the training building there, but since Terminal A (A-2) has no more flight activity, and is just for mainline parking only, and from what I understand, E145's will still run out of the hardstand (130V thru Z) depending on flight activity.

This situation has changed a lot of plans. Will UA have enough flight activity to warrant a return to Terminal A. Or will UA get any gates in the new Terminal One?


The preliminary draft for a new "C-4" (I am very familiar with the existing building that housed the COEX operation in the 90s) would have a structure built over an undeveloped area and drainage ditch to allow for parking of 3-4 WB or 4-6 NB aircraft in that area, which would be connected to the Terminal C FIS. Who knows if that will ever come to fruition...

UA's April schedule is off by about 50% of EWR departures, with virtually no longhaul widebody flying, and for that reason, the operation fits into Terminal C. Once things ramp back up, even to a 75% schedule, UA will need more space and operations at Terminal A will resume. UA is not looking to cede its position in the NYC region and so it will move ahead with long term strategic plans which have it as the largest tenant at Terminal One. You can take that to the bank. Even if the company goes into bankruptcy, the EWR position is of tremendous value.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:08 pm

My guess, if this is way off, is that if United had a new terminal C, the new terminal C would have about 90 gates.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:30 pm

 
ltbewr
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:08 pm

For the foreseeable future, current construction at EWR will be shut down and with the sharp decline of revenues, work will be slowed down, delayed and any new projects delayed for at least 1-2 years.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:38 pm

A new runway should be built to the west or to the southeast where the shopping centers, wetlands and massive parking slots sit.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:03 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
A new runway should be built to the west or to the southeast where the shopping centers, wetlands and massive parking slots sit.


I agree
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:04 pm

ltbewr wrote:
For the foreseeable future, current construction at EWR will be shut down and with the sharp decline of revenues, work will be slowed down, delayed and any new projects delayed for at least 1-2 years.


They seem to be making really good progress with construction on the new terminal 1. Are they delaying the it due to coronavirus?
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:10 pm

The RPA has done a pretty detailed study on rebuilding the airport, and they found that there's space for an independent parallel on the west side of the airport. Unfortunately, the new terminal is in precisely the wrong place.

http://library.rpa.org/pdf/RPA-Upgrading-to-World-Class-Revisited.pdf
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:31 am

YYZLGA wrote:
The RPA has done a pretty detailed study on rebuilding the airport, and they found that there's space for an independent parallel on the west side of the airport. Unfortunately, the new terminal is in precisely the wrong place.

http://library.rpa.org/pdf/RPA-Upgrading-to-World-Class-Revisited.pdf


I don't see the new terminal in this plan
 
KFTG
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:38 am

People are saying it will be bulldozed.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:11 am

KFTG wrote:
People are saying it will be bulldozed.


Wait what's going to be bulldozed?

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