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ytib
Posts: 551
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:28 am

ddaly241 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
People are saying it will be bulldozed.


Wait what's going to be bulldozed?


The link provided was a suggested plan from an outside group (regional transportation think tank). In that "plan" everything would be bulldozed, including the new terminal 1, and they would do a midfield build.
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ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:53 pm

ytib wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
People are saying it will be bulldozed.


Wait what's going to be bulldozed?


The link provided was a suggested plan from an outside group (regional transportation think tank). In that "plan" everything would be bulldozed, including the new terminal 1, and they would do a midfield build.


I don't think the midfield build will work, it's a good suggestion, but I don't think they should bulldoze the new terminal 1. Also the PANYNJ have design plans for a new terminal 2.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:13 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
ytib wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:

Wait what's going to be bulldozed?


The link provided was a suggested plan from an outside group (regional transportation think tank). In that "plan" everything would be bulldozed, including the new terminal 1, and they would do a midfield build.


I don't think the midfield build will work, it's a good suggestion, but I don't think they should bulldoze the new terminal 1. Also the PANYNJ have design plans for a new terminal 2.


The new terminal 1 is already too small for what it is going to serve. I believe the gate layout will be something like this;
AA- 6 (+1)
AC- 2
AS- 3 (-1)
B6- 6 (-1)
DL- 6 (+1)
NK- 2 (+2)
UA- 8 (16 regional) (-2)

() Indicate possibility’s to change

The facility already can’t accommodate SY, G4, and F9 while still limiting airlines like NK and B6 with the ability to grow. Terminal 1 should have had 45 gate which is what the larger option proposed.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:27 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
ytib wrote:

The link provided was a suggested plan from an outside group (regional transportation think tank). In that "plan" everything would be bulldozed, including the new terminal 1, and they would do a midfield build.


I don't think the midfield build will work, it's a good suggestion, but I don't think they should bulldoze the new terminal 1. Also the PANYNJ have design plans for a new terminal 2.


The new terminal 1 is already too small for what it is going to serve. I believe the gate layout will be something like this;
AA- 6 (+1)
AC- 2
AS- 3 (-1)
B6- 6 (-1)
DL- 6 (+1)
NK- 2 (+2)
UA- 8 (16 regional) (-2)

() Indicate possibility’s to change

The facility already can’t accommodate SY, G4, and F9 while still limiting airlines like NK and B6 with the ability to grow. Terminal 1 should have had 45 gate which is what the larger option proposed.


I would not be surprised if the port authority immedietly grow the new terminal into a 45 gate terminal, because EWR is just going to get more busier while the next few years pass, and once they reach the 50M pax mark, then they would have to expand the new terminal 1 to 45 gates.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:47 pm

I've heard rumors that United Express operations will move to terminal B after when terminal 1 is completed.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:00 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
I've heard rumors that United Express operations will move to terminal B after when terminal 1 is completed.


I heard those too and I hope so. I think it is more likely we see F9 and NK consolidate ops to B1
 
N649DL
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:35 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
ytib wrote:

The link provided was a suggested plan from an outside group (regional transportation think tank). In that "plan" everything would be bulldozed, including the new terminal 1, and they would do a midfield build.


I don't think the midfield build will work, it's a good suggestion, but I don't think they should bulldoze the new terminal 1. Also the PANYNJ have design plans for a new terminal 2.


The new terminal 1 is already too small for what it is going to serve. I believe the gate layout will be something like this;
AA- 6 (+1)
AC- 2
AS- 3 (-1)
B6- 6 (-1)
DL- 6 (+1)
NK- 2 (+2)
UA- 8 (16 regional) (-2)

() Indicate possibility’s to change

The facility already can’t accommodate SY, G4, and F9 while still limiting airlines like NK and B6 with the ability to grow. Terminal 1 should have had 45 gate which is what the larger option proposed.


I agree it's too small of a terminal but it's only a matter of time before they expand it up to 45 gates. And with the fallout from COVID-19, there could be a lot of network changes in the coming years. For instance, UA is apparently consolidating to Terminal C from Terminal A right now. So it's possible they could forfeit any plans for Terminal 1 (frankly, I don't think they should have a role there anyway.) DL has been settled into B-1 for well over a decade (back to when DL and NW combined) and just refreshed it's Sky Club. So I don't see much of a reason for them to leave either, compared to say AA which will have to be in Terminal 1 as their gates will be wiped out.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:40 pm

N649DL wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:

I don't think the midfield build will work, it's a good suggestion, but I don't think they should bulldoze the new terminal 1. Also the PANYNJ have design plans for a new terminal 2.


The new terminal 1 is already too small for what it is going to serve. I believe the gate layout will be something like this;
AA- 6 (+1)
AC- 2
AS- 3 (-1)
B6- 6 (-1)
DL- 6 (+1)
NK- 2 (+2)
UA- 8 (16 regional) (-2)

() Indicate possibility’s to change

The facility already can’t accommodate SY, G4, and F9 while still limiting airlines like NK and B6 with the ability to grow. Terminal 1 should have had 45 gate which is what the larger option proposed.


I agree it's too small of a terminal but it's only a matter of time before they expand it up to 45 gates. And with the fallout from COVID-19, there could be a lot of network changes in the coming years. For instance, UA is apparently consolidating to Terminal C from Terminal A right now. So it's possible they could forfeit any plans for Terminal 1 (frankly, I don't think they should have a role there anyway.) DL has been settled into B-1 for well over a decade (back to when DL and NW combined) and just refreshed it's Sky Club. So I don't see much of a reason for them to leave either, compared to say AA which will have to be in Terminal 1 as their gates will be wiped out.


I never have really thought DL fit into B. Where would the T1 expansion go?
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:58 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

The new terminal 1 is already too small for what it is going to serve. I believe the gate layout will be something like this;
AA- 6 (+1)
AC- 2
AS- 3 (-1)
B6- 6 (-1)
DL- 6 (+1)
NK- 2 (+2)
UA- 8 (16 regional) (-2)

() Indicate possibility’s to change

The facility already can’t accommodate SY, G4, and F9 while still limiting airlines like NK and B6 with the ability to grow. Terminal 1 should have had 45 gate which is what the larger option proposed.


I agree it's too small of a terminal but it's only a matter of time before they expand it up to 45 gates. And with the fallout from COVID-19, there could be a lot of network changes in the coming years. For instance, UA is apparently consolidating to Terminal C from Terminal A right now. So it's possible they could forfeit any plans for Terminal 1 (frankly, I don't think they should have a role there anyway.) DL has been settled into B-1 for well over a decade (back to when DL and NW combined) and just refreshed it's Sky Club. So I don't see much of a reason for them to leave either, compared to say AA which will have to be in Terminal 1 as their gates will be wiped out.


I never have really thought DL fit into B. Where would the T1 expansion go?


I think the terminal expansion would go towards the old terminal A headhouse, but that's where they might build the terminal 2, so I'm not really sure. Unless if they knock down some of the cargo facilities and expand the terminal 1 towards the cargo facilities. That's just my assumption, what do you guys think?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:43 pm

If I knew how to post a picture in here I definitely would of what I’d most likely going to happen.
 
N649DL
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:47 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

The new terminal 1 is already too small for what it is going to serve. I believe the gate layout will be something like this;
AA- 6 (+1)
AC- 2
AS- 3 (-1)
B6- 6 (-1)
DL- 6 (+1)
NK- 2 (+2)
UA- 8 (16 regional) (-2)

() Indicate possibility’s to change

The facility already can’t accommodate SY, G4, and F9 while still limiting airlines like NK and B6 with the ability to grow. Terminal 1 should have had 45 gate which is what the larger option proposed.


I agree it's too small of a terminal but it's only a matter of time before they expand it up to 45 gates. And with the fallout from COVID-19, there could be a lot of network changes in the coming years. For instance, UA is apparently consolidating to Terminal C from Terminal A right now. So it's possible they could forfeit any plans for Terminal 1 (frankly, I don't think they should have a role there anyway.) DL has been settled into B-1 for well over a decade (back to when DL and NW combined) and just refreshed it's Sky Club. So I don't see much of a reason for them to leave either, compared to say AA which will have to be in Terminal 1 as their gates will be wiped out.


I never have really thought DL fit into B. Where would the T1 expansion go?


DL (including NW in the same Satellite) been in Terminal B at EWR since at least 1990. I have a photo of me looking at a DL 757 at Gate 46 when I was 3 years old (in 1990) with an EA 757 in B-2 in the background. Plus they have a new security area, ticketing areas, and Sky Club and have been making enhancements in the Terminal (EG: newly branded gates and whatnot). However, like how they vacated Terminal 5 at LAX in favor of 2 & 3, it's always possible they could go to Terminal 1 as well at EWR. That said, they seem pretty comfortable in Terminal B.
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:17 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
People are saying it will be bulldozed.


Wait what's going to be bulldozed?


In order to build out the additional runway as per the RPA's plan, they will have to bulldoze the new terminal. Long-term planning at its finest!
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:28 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
People are saying it will be bulldozed.


Wait what's going to be bulldozed?


In order to build out the additional runway as per the RPA's plan, they will have to bulldoze the new terminal. Long-term planning at its finest!


Is there a way of how to build an additional runway without bulldozing the new terminal 1?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:53 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
YYZLGA wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:

Wait what's going to be bulldozed?


In order to build out the additional runway as per the RPA's plan, they will have to bulldoze the new terminal. Long-term planning at its finest!


Is there a way of how to build an additional runway without bulldozing the new terminal 1?


No
 
codc10
Posts: 2834
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:03 pm

United's Express operation at Terminal A-2 is optimized for 50-seaters. As those are retired and replaced with other types with wider spans, United will need more physical space to accommodate the number of flights they plan to operate. The same issue is encountered at Terminal C, where, over time, the number of gates has decreased as UA has increased span (737/757/767 with winglets, more widebodies, larger gauge), thus requiring the inactivation of certain gates. This will be substantially the role of Terminal 1, where, like it or not, UA will be the "anchor" tenant. Even if UA eventually occupies part of B-1, it'll still have a significant presence at the new terminal. Those agreements have already been reached.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:09 pm

codc10 wrote:
United's Express operation at Terminal A-2 is optimized for 50-seaters. As those are retired and replaced with other types with wider spans, United will need more physical space to accommodate the number of flights they plan to operate. The same issue is encountered at Terminal C, where, over time, the number of gates has decreased as UA has increased span (737/757/767 with winglets, more widebodies, larger gauge), thus requiring the inactivation of certain gates. This will be substantially the role of Terminal 1, where, like it or not, UA will be the "anchor" tenant. Even if UA eventually occupies part of B-1, it'll still have a significant presence at the new terminal. Those agreements have already been reached.


I do agree, because combining all United operations into terminal c is going to be a disaster. United would definitely need another terminal to operate some of their operations. They would definitely need most of the gates in the new terminal 1, since they have most of the gates in terminal A.
 
codc10
Posts: 2834
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: Newark Airport Future

Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:58 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
codc10 wrote:
United's Express operation at Terminal A-2 is optimized for 50-seaters. As those are retired and replaced with other types with wider spans, United will need more physical space to accommodate the number of flights they plan to operate. The same issue is encountered at Terminal C, where, over time, the number of gates has decreased as UA has increased span (737/757/767 with winglets, more widebodies, larger gauge), thus requiring the inactivation of certain gates. This will be substantially the role of Terminal 1, where, like it or not, UA will be the "anchor" tenant. Even if UA eventually occupies part of B-1, it'll still have a significant presence at the new terminal. Those agreements have already been reached.


I do agree, because combining all United operations into terminal c is going to be a disaster. United would definitely need another terminal to operate some of their operations. They would definitely need most of the gates in the new terminal 1, since they have most of the gates in terminal A.


There is no plan to consolidate operations at Terminal C for the long term, unless the 70%+ schedule reductions continue, and at that point, the entire industry is in danger of collapse.

The consolidation is temporary to reduce operating costs while total departures are down by about 50% and capacity cut even more.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:27 pm

By any chance, would any one know when they the port authority would start making plans to expand terminal 1 to 45 gates?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15107
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:58 pm

Perhaps what EWR needs to do is move all parking, car rentals,and some ancillary services to outside the current footprint of the airport. The PA controls the seaport areas to the east of the NJ Turnpike with undeveloped areas adjacent to the IKEA as well as 2 closed retail sites (Toys R Us, a long closed electronics store) that could be repurposed. There are un and under-developed areas to west of US 1-9, south in Elizabeth, and to the north and northwest in the City of Newark itself that could be used.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:00 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Perhaps what EWR needs to do is move all parking, car rentals,and some ancillary services to outside the current footprint of the airport. The PA controls the seaport areas to the east of the NJ Turnpike with undeveloped areas adjacent to the IKEA as well as 2 closed retail sites (Toys R Us, a long closed electronics store) that could be repurposed. There are un and under-developed areas to west of US 1-9, south in Elizabeth, and to the north and northwest in the City of Newark itself that could be used.


I would agree, they definitely need to sort out the airport.
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:16 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Perhaps what EWR needs to do is move all parking, car rentals,and some ancillary services to outside the current footprint of the airport. The PA controls the seaport areas to the east of the NJ Turnpike with undeveloped areas adjacent to the IKEA as well as 2 closed retail sites (Toys R Us, a long closed electronics store) that could be repurposed. There are un and under-developed areas to west of US 1-9, south in Elizabeth, and to the north and northwest in the City of Newark itself that could be used.


I think the RPA's plan is pretty close to ideal:
  • build a single terminal head house between the Northeast Corridor and US-1, with direct highway and rail access (would make the PATH extension much easier, too);
  • connect it by people mover Denver-style to midfield concourses;
  • build an additional runway on the western side of the field just east of US-1 (which is far enough west to function as an independent parallel runway).

The result would be a huge increase in runway capacity, and a single-terminal airport that would function far better as a hub for United. It's a real shame that the PA didn't consider this type of long-term plan before deciding to build the new terminal. Piecemeal approaches to expansion at NYC area airports have caused a lot of problems over the years.

The RPA's design is on page 43 of the pdf.
 
codc10
Posts: 2834
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:05 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Perhaps what EWR needs to do is move all parking, car rentals,and some ancillary services to outside the current footprint of the airport. The PA controls the seaport areas to the east of the NJ Turnpike with undeveloped areas adjacent to the IKEA as well as 2 closed retail sites (Toys R Us, a long closed electronics store) that could be repurposed. There are un and under-developed areas to west of US 1-9, south in Elizabeth, and to the north and northwest in the City of Newark itself that could be used.


Rental car operations at EWR will be moved to a CONRAC (consolidated rent-a-car) facility under construction across from the new T1 (part of the public parking garage). I think individual operators will retain lots elsewhere for maintenance and storage, but they might be off-site.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:05 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Perhaps what EWR needs to do is move all parking, car rentals,and some ancillary services to outside the current footprint of the airport. The PA controls the seaport areas to the east of the NJ Turnpike with undeveloped areas adjacent to the IKEA as well as 2 closed retail sites (Toys R Us, a long closed electronics store) that could be repurposed. There are un and under-developed areas to west of US 1-9, south in Elizabeth, and to the north and northwest in the City of Newark itself that could be used.


I think the RPA's plan is pretty close to ideal:
  • build a single terminal head house between the Northeast Corridor and US-1, with direct highway and rail access (would make the PATH extension much easier, too);
  • connect it by people mover Denver-style to midfield concourses;
  • build an additional runway on the western side of the field just east of US-1 (which is far enough west to function as an independent parallel runway).

The result would be a huge increase in runway capacity, and a single-terminal airport that would function far better as a hub for United. It's a real shame that the PA didn't consider this type of long-term plan before deciding to build the new terminal. Piecemeal approaches to expansion at NYC area airports have caused a lot of problems over the years.

The RPA's design is on page 43 of the pdf.


They can still make the single terminal new headhouse, it would just have to include terminal 1 in it.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:12 pm

I'm thinking this, what if EWR can make a new terminal headhouse, they can still have terminal 1, but with no check in/ security system, they can still make a new runway over route 1 and 9, but they would have to build a tunnel under the new runway. What do you all think?

Any additions to this, please tell me.
 
T5towbar
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:27 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
By any chance, would any one know when they the port authority would start making plans to expand terminal 1 to 45 gates?



Terminal 1 is designed to be expandable if you include the UAX operation. All of the gates are designed to be mainline (737/320-1) type gates. If you include the UAX operation (145/175/550) and or mainline, that would add up to more gates in total than the 33 that is designed for. Only AC and AA has Express ops as well. At present, 80% of UAX can fit into a 8 to 10 gate mainline footprint. (unless you run a "normal" summer schedule where hardstand ops may be added as a supplement, and some 175 type AC will always be a Terminal C where there are smaller gates (84; 115; 114; etc)
UAX is now scattered thru the 3 concourses, but mostly on one side of C-2 (101 thru 115 odd number gates). If and when flight activity warrants it, we should be back to A till the new terminal will be built.

When the planning is complete for Terminal Two, no one knows what will happen, but the musical chairs will play out again since you will have to have a home for DL. By then the 50 seaters maybe will either be gone or sent elsewhere, and bigger gauge (175 / 550) will be the UAX fleet for EWR. But all this will depend on how construction will phase out, and how disruptive it will be. This project is to be much bigger in scale than Terminal One, since you are actually starting the project near the FAA Control Tower. And replacing the existing Marriott hotel with two hotels in front of the new terminal and starting the terminal project from the short term lots in front of the terminal all the way to the present terminals in a "U" type pattern. I'm thinking this won't be complete till about 2026-27. (The planning stage will take about a year at least) And you have to reroute the existing service road as well to connect with Terminal Two and Terminal C. (I haven't seen any of the plans in describing how that will work. That is why the AirTrain project has to be constructed in conjunction with Terminal Two. I've seen some designs that AirTrain will end at Terminal One, and pax will be connected to Two via walkway/skyway. But what about C?

I would not speculate anything till opening day happens next year. Hopefully all will be back to some normalcy, and the moving will begin. Everyone knows that in normal times, the whole UA operation cannot fit into Terminal C. UA has large investments in EWR, and we will definitely be accommodated in any plans the PA has. My preference is to go to B, but as previous posters have mentioned that DL has invested in B-1, and the former use of Gate 40 - 41 no longer happening, and they were not in the original moving plans. I don't see us moving to Terminal B-1, unless the new terminal happens and everybody else including DL will be at Terminal One. And we will have gates in one part of the new Terminal Two. In a idea world, that what should happen till UA designs and builds a new Terminal Three in the next decade. Then and only then will UA will be in one terminal.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:44 pm

I think I’m ideal world we see 4 terminals with 6 concourses.

UA can have terminals ‘1’ and ‘2’ with 56 gates for domestic departures and another 20-28 international gates.

Foreign carriers could use terminal ‘3’ with 20 gates and United would be kept out of this terminal.

Domestic carriers could finally all Consolidate to one terminal (‘4’) with 56 gates. United would also operate an express operation from out of here.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:01 am

People have been saying this

Terminal One completion - 2021/2022
Airtrain completion - 2024
Path train extension - 2025
Terminal Two - 2026
Terminal Three - 2027?
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:27 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think I’m ideal world we see 4 terminals with 6 concourses.

UA can have terminals ‘1’ and ‘2’ with 56 gates for domestic departures and another 20-28 international gates.

Foreign carriers could use terminal ‘3’ with 20 gates and United would be kept out of this terminal.

Domestic carriers could finally all Consolidate to one terminal (‘4’) with 56 gates. United would also operate an express operation from out of here.



By any chance, do you know where would terminal 4 go?
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:30 am

T5towbar wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
By any chance, would any one know when they the port authority would start making plans to expand terminal 1 to 45 gates?



Terminal 1 is designed to be expandable if you include the UAX operation. All of the gates are designed to be mainline (737/320-1) type gates. If you include the UAX operation (145/175/550) and or mainline, that would add up to more gates in total than the 33 that is designed for. Only AC and AA has Express ops as well. At present, 80% of UAX can fit into a 8 to 10 gate mainline footprint. (unless you run a "normal" summer schedule where hardstand ops may be added as a supplement, and some 175 type AC will always be a Terminal C where there are smaller gates (84; 115; 114; etc)
UAX is now scattered thru the 3 concourses, but mostly on one side of C-2 (101 thru 115 odd number gates). If and when flight activity warrants it, we should be back to A till the new terminal will be built.

When the planning is complete for Terminal Two, no one knows what will happen, but the musical chairs will play out again since you will have to have a home for DL. By then the 50 seaters maybe will either be gone or sent elsewhere, and bigger gauge (175 / 550) will be the UAX fleet for EWR. But all this will depend on how construction will phase out, and how disruptive it will be. This project is to be much bigger in scale than Terminal One, since you are actually starting the project near the FAA Control Tower. And replacing the existing Marriott hotel with two hotels in front of the new terminal and starting the terminal project from the short term lots in front of the terminal all the way to the present terminals in a "U" type pattern. I'm thinking this won't be complete till about 2026-27. (The planning stage will take about a year at least) And you have to reroute the existing service road as well to connect with Terminal Two and Terminal C. (I haven't seen any of the plans in describing how that will work. That is why the AirTrain project has to be constructed in conjunction with Terminal Two. I've seen some designs that AirTrain will end at Terminal One, and pax will be connected to Two via walkway/skyway. But what about C?

I would not speculate anything till opening day happens next year. Hopefully all will be back to some normalcy, and the moving will begin. Everyone knows that in normal times, the whole UA operation cannot fit into Terminal C. UA has large investments in EWR, and we will definitely be accommodated in any plans the PA has. My preference is to go to B, but as previous posters have mentioned that DL has invested in B-1, and the former use of Gate 40 - 41 no longer happening, and they were not in the original moving plans. I don't see us moving to Terminal B-1, unless the new terminal happens and everybody else including DL will be at Terminal One. And we will have gates in one part of the new Terminal Two. In a idea world, that what should happen till UA designs and builds a new Terminal Three in the next decade. Then and only then will UA will be in one terminal.


If UAX had a terminal built, how many gates would you think it could have?
 
N649DL
Posts: 922
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:01 am

ddaly241 wrote:
codc10 wrote:
United's Express operation at Terminal A-2 is optimized for 50-seaters. As those are retired and replaced with other types with wider spans, United will need more physical space to accommodate the number of flights they plan to operate. The same issue is encountered at Terminal C, where, over time, the number of gates has decreased as UA has increased span (737/757/767 with winglets, more widebodies, larger gauge), thus requiring the inactivation of certain gates. This will be substantially the role of Terminal 1, where, like it or not, UA will be the "anchor" tenant. Even if UA eventually occupies part of B-1, it'll still have a significant presence at the new terminal. Those agreements have already been reached.


I do agree, because combining all United operations into terminal c is going to be a disaster. United would definitely need another terminal to operate some of their operations. They would definitely need most of the gates in the new terminal 1, since they have most of the gates in terminal A.


If you recall, Terminal A-2 was NOT used by CO in the 1990s for Express operations. They actually had 737s on mainline ops to business destinations to places like DFW, ATL etc. and then converted it. A-2 is not at all optimal for anything other than perhaps USAir using it as a focus city in the early 1990s. It's not optimized at all for 50 seat aircraft at all.

T5towbar wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:

I would not speculate anything till opening day happens next year. Hopefully all will be back to some normalcy, and the moving will begin. Everyone knows that in normal times, the whole UA operation cannot fit into Terminal C. UA has large investments in EWR, and we will definitely be accommodated in any plans the PA has. My preference is to go to B, but as previous posters have mentioned that DL has invested in B-1, and the former use of Gate 40 - 41 no longer happening, and they were not in the original moving plans. I don't see us moving to Terminal B-1, unless the new terminal happens and everybody else including DL will be at Terminal One. And we will have gates in one part of the new Terminal Two. In a idea world, that what should happen till UA designs and builds a new Terminal Three in the next decade. Then and only then will UA will be in one terminal.


Well, it's happening (apparently) as UA is moving all ops from A to C. So yes, UAL is ultimately going to be downsized and will likely stay there. Their use of DL's B-1 terminal was beyond dumb and obnoxious for travelers anyway.
 
codc10
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:05 am

N649DL wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
codc10 wrote:
United's Express operation at Terminal A-2 is optimized for 50-seaters. As those are retired and replaced with other types with wider spans, United will need more physical space to accommodate the number of flights they plan to operate. The same issue is encountered at Terminal C, where, over time, the number of gates has decreased as UA has increased span (737/757/767 with winglets, more widebodies, larger gauge), thus requiring the inactivation of certain gates. This will be substantially the role of Terminal 1, where, like it or not, UA will be the "anchor" tenant. Even if UA eventually occupies part of B-1, it'll still have a significant presence at the new terminal. Those agreements have already been reached.


I do agree, because combining all United operations into terminal c is going to be a disaster. United would definitely need another terminal to operate some of their operations. They would definitely need most of the gates in the new terminal 1, since they have most of the gates in terminal A.


If you recall, Terminal A-2 was NOT used by CO in the 1990s for Express operations. They actually had 737s on mainline ops to business destinations to places like DFW, ATL etc. and then converted it. A-2 is not at all optimal for anything other than perhaps USAir using it as a focus city in the early 1990s. It's not optimized at all for 50 seat aircraft at all.


You correctly note that A-2 was “converted”... it was in fact converted to optimize handling of 50-seat aircraft, specifically the ERJ-145. All but the former JetBlue gates are marked for that category. Larger spans won’t fit in the existing layout without blocking adjacent gates, which would, naturally, be suboptimal.
 
T5towbar
Posts: 489
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:09 am

ddaly241 wrote:
T5towbar wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
By any chance, would any one know when they the port authority would start making plans to expand terminal 1 to 45 gates?



Terminal 1 is designed to be expandable if you include the UAX operation. All of the gates are designed to be mainline (737/320-1) type gates. If you include the UAX operation (145/175/550) and or mainline, that would add up to more gates in total than the 33 that is designed for. Only AC and AA has Express ops as well. At present, 80% of UAX can fit into a 8 to 10 gate mainline footprint. (unless you run a "normal" summer schedule where hardstand ops may be added as a supplement, and some 175 type AC will always be a Terminal C where there are smaller gates (84; 115; 114; etc)
UAX is now scattered thru the 3 concourses, but mostly on one side of C-2 (101 thru 115 odd number gates). If and when flight activity warrants it, we should be back to A till the new terminal will be built.

When the planning is complete for Terminal Two, no one knows what will happen, but the musical chairs will play out again since you will have to have a home for DL. By then the 50 seaters maybe will either be gone or sent elsewhere, and bigger gauge (175 / 550) will be the UAX fleet for EWR. But all this will depend on how construction will phase out, and how disruptive it will be. This project is to be much bigger in scale than Terminal One, since you are actually starting the project near the FAA Control Tower. And replacing the existing Marriott hotel with two hotels in front of the new terminal and starting the terminal project from the short term lots in front of the terminal all the way to the present terminals in a "U" type pattern. I'm thinking this won't be complete till about 2026-27. (The planning stage will take about a year at least) And you have to reroute the existing service road as well to connect with Terminal Two and Terminal C. (I haven't seen any of the plans in describing how that will work. That is why the AirTrain project has to be constructed in conjunction with Terminal Two. I've seen some designs that AirTrain will end at Terminal One, and pax will be connected to Two via walkway/skyway. But what about C?

I would not speculate anything till opening day happens next year. Hopefully all will be back to some normalcy, and the moving will begin. Everyone knows that in normal times, the whole UA operation cannot fit into Terminal C. UA has large investments in EWR, and we will definitely be accommodated in any plans the PA has. My preference is to go to B, but as previous posters have mentioned that DL has invested in B-1, and the former use of Gate 40 - 41 no longer happening, and they were not in the original moving plans. I don't see us moving to Terminal B-1, unless the new terminal happens and everybody else including DL will be at Terminal One. And we will have gates in one part of the new Terminal Two. In a idea world, that what should happen till UA designs and builds a new Terminal Three in the next decade. Then and only then will UA will be in one terminal.


If UAX had a terminal built, how many gates would you think it could have?


Not including the E175 type gates at Terminal C, which are a about 6 or 7, (that also get the E145 YQB flight that has to arrive in customs at B or C), and if you ran a summer peak schedule, UAX was a 21 gate operation for E145 type jets (16 gates at Term A; 5 hardstand gates at C) Out of those 16 Gates at A, 6 could be used for E175 type aircraft without shutting down a adjacent gate. If needed and UAX was shut down due to weather, Terminal A could handle 5 or 6 737/320 type aircraft, by shutting down adjacent gates. Which has been done before when UAX was shut down and mainline needed gates for arrivals. A couple of those gates could also handle a 757 as well. I'm quite sure that any new gates needed would be a mix of mainline and express. I think that C5 was in the process of a small build up since ExpressJet was supposed to fly the E175, but that was changed, and those aforementioned carriers was to team up to fly those planes. Republic and GoJet would fly the larger aircraft. 16 E145 gates that can also handle 6 E170/C550 without any gate closure would fit into a 10 gate mainline footprint. That is what A-2 is/was at present. Now everything is in C for the foreseeable future.

Oh, and that fiasco with Gate 40-41 was IIRC, had something to do with the leaving of JFK, and DL received the slots which let UA use those two gates. Someone with more knowledge of the deal, help me out. It lasted for 1 summer, and DL took back the gates.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:19 am

ddaly241 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
People are saying it will be bulldozed.


Wait what's going to be bulldozed?


The new terminal A?
Delta Gold Medallion
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:49 am

T5towbar wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
T5towbar wrote:


Terminal 1 is designed to be expandable if you include the UAX operation. All of the gates are designed to be mainline (737/320-1) type gates. If you include the UAX operation (145/175/550) and or mainline, that would add up to more gates in total than the 33 that is designed for. Only AC and AA has Express ops as well. At present, 80% of UAX can fit into a 8 to 10 gate mainline footprint. (unless you run a "normal" summer schedule where hardstand ops may be added as a supplement, and some 175 type AC will always be a Terminal C where there are smaller gates (84; 115; 114; etc)
UAX is now scattered thru the 3 concourses, but mostly on one side of C-2 (101 thru 115 odd number gates). If and when flight activity warrants it, we should be back to A till the new terminal will be built.

When the planning is complete for Terminal Two, no one knows what will happen, but the musical chairs will play out again since you will have to have a home for DL. By then the 50 seaters maybe will either be gone or sent elsewhere, and bigger gauge (175 / 550) will be the UAX fleet for EWR. But all this will depend on how construction will phase out, and how disruptive it will be. This project is to be much bigger in scale than Terminal One, since you are actually starting the project near the FAA Control Tower. And replacing the existing Marriott hotel with two hotels in front of the new terminal and starting the terminal project from the short term lots in front of the terminal all the way to the present terminals in a "U" type pattern. I'm thinking this won't be complete till about 2026-27. (The planning stage will take about a year at least) And you have to reroute the existing service road as well to connect with Terminal Two and Terminal C. (I haven't seen any of the plans in describing how that will work. That is why the AirTrain project has to be constructed in conjunction with Terminal Two. I've seen some designs that AirTrain will end at Terminal One, and pax will be connected to Two via walkway/skyway. But what about C?

I would not speculate anything till opening day happens next year. Hopefully all will be back to some normalcy, and the moving will begin. Everyone knows that in normal times, the whole UA operation cannot fit into Terminal C. UA has large investments in EWR, and we will definitely be accommodated in any plans the PA has. My preference is to go to B, but as previous posters have mentioned that DL has invested in B-1, and the former use of Gate 40 - 41 no longer happening, and they were not in the original moving plans. I don't see us moving to Terminal B-1, unless the new terminal happens and everybody else including DL will be at Terminal One. And we will have gates in one part of the new Terminal Two. In a idea world, that what should happen till UA designs and builds a new Terminal Three in the next decade. Then and only then will UA will be in one terminal.


If UAX had a terminal built, how many gates would you think it could have?


Not including the E175 type gates at Terminal C, which are a about 6 or 7, (that also get the E145 YQB flight that has to arrive in customs at B or C), and if you ran a summer peak schedule, UAX was a 21 gate operation for E145 type jets (16 gates at Term A; 5 hardstand gates at C) Out of those 16 Gates at A, 6 could be used for E175 type aircraft without shutting down a adjacent gate. If needed and UAX was shut down due to weather, Terminal A could handle 5 or 6 737/320 type aircraft, by shutting down adjacent gates. Which has been done before when UAX was shut down and mainline needed gates for arrivals. A couple of those gates could also handle a 757 as well. I'm quite sure that any new gates needed would be a mix of mainline and express. I think that C5 was in the process of a small build up since ExpressJet was supposed to fly the E175, but that was changed, and those aforementioned carriers was to team up to fly those planes. Republic and GoJet would fly the larger aircraft. 16 E145 gates that can also handle 6 E170/C550 without any gate closure would fit into a 10 gate mainline footprint. That is what A-2 is/was at present. Now everything is in C for the foreseeable future.

Oh, and that fiasco with Gate 40-41 was IIRC, had something to do with the leaving of JFK, and DL received the slots which let UA use those two gates. Someone with more knowledge of the deal, help me out. It lasted for 1 summer, and DL took back the gates.


Spirit is the primary user of those gates now but DL definitely does use those gates on occasion. Will UA ever return to Terminals A and B following this fiasco or make a better use of C (if possible)?
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:55 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think I’m ideal world we see 4 terminals with 6 concourses.

UA can have terminals ‘1’ and ‘2’ with 56 gates for domestic departures and another 20-28 international gates.

Foreign carriers could use terminal ‘3’ with 20 gates and United would be kept out of this terminal.

Domestic carriers could finally all Consolidate to one terminal (‘4’) with 56 gates. United would also operate an express operation from out of here.


From this link, it looks like the new terminal two has about 40 gates.

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf
 
codc10
Posts: 2834
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:49 am

T5towbar wrote:
Oh, and that fiasco with Gate 40-41 was IIRC, had something to do with the leaving of JFK, and DL received the slots which let UA use those two gates. Someone with more knowledge of the deal, help me out. It lasted for 1 summer, and DL took back the gates.


40/41 are PANYNJ common use gates. NW historically had them on a preferential basis, which Delta “inherited”. After a while, Delta usage fell below thresholds to keep preferential status and United lobbied to use them, mostly as a way to gate-squat and keep NK out. NK received gates anyway, and the UA ceded its access once gate reshuffling began to accommodate T1 construction.

It ended up an operational headache for UA.
EWR pax were confused by which terminal to use for landside services, connecting pax didn’t know how to get to their gates, and UA didn’t want to permanently staff ticket counters and bag service for a handful of daily flights. Even when the gates were used for high O&D flights (Florida) with predominantly local pax, aircraft turns were extended, and the location of the gates, tucked into a tow-in position in an alley, was troublesome.

Overall, a complicated setup that proved too difficult to manage without any real operational benefit, and Spirit got in anyway.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:32 pm

question for you all, Will UA ever expand their operations out of EWR once the new terminal 1 and possibly terminal 2 are complete?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:41 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think I’m ideal world we see 4 terminals with 6 concourses.

UA can have terminals ‘1’ and ‘2’ with 56 gates for domestic departures and another 20-28 international gates.

Foreign carriers could use terminal ‘3’ with 20 gates and United would be kept out of this terminal.

Domestic carriers could finally all Consolidate to one terminal (‘4’) with 56 gates. United would also operate an express operation from out of here.


From this link, it looks like the new terminal two has about 40 gates.

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


Yes but I believe what we see in the renderings is a long way down the future unfortunately. I also think if they don’t move ahead with terminal 3 plans shortly UA will almost take over terminal 2.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:51 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think I’m ideal world we see 4 terminals with 6 concourses.

UA can have terminals ‘1’ and ‘2’ with 56 gates for domestic departures and another 20-28 international gates.

Foreign carriers could use terminal ‘3’ with 20 gates and United would be kept out of this terminal.

Domestic carriers could finally all Consolidate to one terminal (‘4’) with 56 gates. United would also operate an express operation from out of here.


From this link, it looks like the new terminal two has about 40 gates.

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploa ... ession.pdf


Yes but I believe what we see in the renderings is a long way down the future unfortunately. I also think if they don’t move ahead with terminal 3 plans shortly UA will almost take over terminal 2.


I would say UA would get about 20 gates or more from terminal 2.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:37 pm

By any chance, do you all know how much pax a year EWR can fit for the future. This would happen when terminals 1 and 2 are built and hopefully when terminal 3 is built.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:24 pm

Also another question I have is, do you think EWR should have a 600 acre expansion for cargo operations?
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:31 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
By any chance, do you all know how much pax a year EWR can fit for the future. This would happen when terminals 1 and 2 are built and hopefully when terminal 3 is built.


The port is projecting 72 million pax for 2040.

ddaly241 wrote:
Also another question I have is, do you think EWR should have a 600 acre expansion for cargo operations?


I think it should expand but not solely for cargo ops.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:39 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
By any chance, do you all know how much pax a year EWR can fit for the future. This would happen when terminals 1 and 2 are built and hopefully when terminal 3 is built.


The port is projecting 72 million pax for 2040.

ddaly241 wrote:
Also another question I have is, do you think EWR should have a 600 acre expansion for cargo operations?


I think it should expand but not solely for cargo ops.


I do agree, cargo operations don't need to be expanded, they need to be put into another location in EWR, which I believe it should be south of runways 4R/L. I also believe that the they could be expecting more pax than 72 million by 2040. I don't know about you guys, but I think if they move cargo operations south of runways 4R/L, then they could expand terminal 1 even more than 45 gates.
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:22 pm

Would you guys think that it would be possible for the port authority to expand to more than 45 gates for the new terminal 1 if cargo operations are moved to another location of the airport?
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:59 pm

Good afternoon guys, I'm just wondering, I found this link about a future headhouse in EWR. I thought you guys would be interested in it, but would it be good if the port authority considered adding a terminal headhouse for EWR.

https://awards.re-thinkingthefuture.com ... tha-pires/
 
T5towbar
Posts: 489
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:36 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
Would you guys think that it would be possible for the port authority to expand to more than 45 gates for the new terminal 1 if cargo operations are moved to another location of the airport?


No. There is not enough room for that. You have FedEx which has a large operation there and where you they move to? UPS (and the Post Office building which was demolished at the same time) was lucky enough to move to the North Area next door the the UA GSE repair building. I think that UA and UPS had an agreement to park some UA planes when they were in the South Area, but that has ended since UPS needed room in the North Area to park their own birds. Most or all of the cargo facilities are in the North Area anyway except FedEx. You would also have to move the rest of the UA Chelsea flight kitchen as well. Some of the Chelsea property is being used for the new terminal as well.

FedEx has a hub here, and it is too big to move. You can't expand because then you won't have any taxiway to head toward the runway.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
gdavis003
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Newark Airport Future

Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:01 pm

T5towbar wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
T5towbar wrote:


Terminal 1 is designed to be expandable if you include the UAX operation. All of the gates are designed to be mainline (737/320-1) type gates. If you include the UAX operation (145/175/550) and or mainline, that would add up to more gates in total than the 33 that is designed for. Only AC and AA has Express ops as well. At present, 80% of UAX can fit into a 8 to 10 gate mainline footprint. (unless you run a "normal" summer schedule where hardstand ops may be added as a supplement, and some 175 type AC will always be a Terminal C where there are smaller gates (84; 115; 114; etc)
UAX is now scattered thru the 3 concourses, but mostly on one side of C-2 (101 thru 115 odd number gates). If and when flight activity warrants it, we should be back to A till the new terminal will be built.

When the planning is complete for Terminal Two, no one knows what will happen, but the musical chairs will play out again since you will have to have a home for DL. By then the 50 seaters maybe will either be gone or sent elsewhere, and bigger gauge (175 / 550) will be the UAX fleet for EWR. But all this will depend on how construction will phase out, and how disruptive it will be. This project is to be much bigger in scale than Terminal One, since you are actually starting the project near the FAA Control Tower. And replacing the existing Marriott hotel with two hotels in front of the new terminal and starting the terminal project from the short term lots in front of the terminal all the way to the present terminals in a "U" type pattern. I'm thinking this won't be complete till about 2026-27. (The planning stage will take about a year at least) And you have to reroute the existing service road as well to connect with Terminal Two and Terminal C. (I haven't seen any of the plans in describing how that will work. That is why the AirTrain project has to be constructed in conjunction with Terminal Two. I've seen some designs that AirTrain will end at Terminal One, and pax will be connected to Two via walkway/skyway. But what about C?

I would not speculate anything till opening day happens next year. Hopefully all will be back to some normalcy, and the moving will begin. Everyone knows that in normal times, the whole UA operation cannot fit into Terminal C. UA has large investments in EWR, and we will definitely be accommodated in any plans the PA has. My preference is to go to B, but as previous posters have mentioned that DL has invested in B-1, and the former use of Gate 40 - 41 no longer happening, and they were not in the original moving plans. I don't see us moving to Terminal B-1, unless the new terminal happens and everybody else including DL will be at Terminal One. And we will have gates in one part of the new Terminal Two. In a idea world, that what should happen till UA designs and builds a new Terminal Three in the next decade. Then and only then will UA will be in one terminal.


If UAX had a terminal built, how many gates would you think it could have?


Not including the E175 type gates at Terminal C, which are a about 6 or 7, (that also get the E145 YQB flight that has to arrive in customs at B or C), and if you ran a summer peak schedule, UAX was a 21 gate operation for E145 type jets (16 gates at Term A; 5 hardstand gates at C) Out of those 16 Gates at A, 6 could be used for E175 type aircraft without shutting down a adjacent gate. If needed and UAX was shut down due to weather, Terminal A could handle 5 or 6 737/320 type aircraft, by shutting down adjacent gates. Which has been done before when UAX was shut down and mainline needed gates for arrivals. A couple of those gates could also handle a 757 as well. I'm quite sure that any new gates needed would be a mix of mainline and express. I think that C5 was in the process of a small build up since ExpressJet was supposed to fly the E175, but that was changed, and those aforementioned carriers was to team up to fly those planes. Republic and GoJet would fly the larger aircraft. 16 E145 gates that can also handle 6 E170/C550 without any gate closure would fit into a 10 gate mainline footprint. That is what A-2 is/was at present. Now everything is in C for the foreseeable future.

Oh, and that fiasco with Gate 40-41 was IIRC, had something to do with the leaving of JFK, and DL received the slots which let UA use those two gates. Someone with more knowledge of the deal, help me out. It lasted for 1 summer, and DL took back the gates.


When did UA use 40-41? Last time I was there flying DL, those gates were being used by Spirit
 
ddaly241
Topic Author
Posts: 115
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:14 pm

T5towbar wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:
Would you guys think that it would be possible for the port authority to expand to more than 45 gates for the new terminal 1 if cargo operations are moved to another location of the airport?


No. There is not enough room for that. You have FedEx which has a large operation there and where you they move to? UPS (and the Post Office building which was demolished at the same time) was lucky enough to move to the North Area next door the the UA GSE repair building. I think that UA and UPS had an agreement to park some UA planes when they were in the South Area, but that has ended since UPS needed room in the North Area to park their own birds. Most or all of the cargo facilities are in the North Area anyway except FedEx. You would also have to move the rest of the UA Chelsea flight kitchen as well. Some of the Chelsea property is being used for the new terminal as well.

FedEx has a hub here, and it is too big to move. You can't expand because then you won't have any taxiway to head toward the runway.


I mean Fedex is too big to move, but Apparently, the RPA said that they could expand EWR by 600 acres south of runways 4R/L. Those 600 acres would be able to accommodate cargo.
 
United1
Posts: 4153
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Newark Airport Future

Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:21 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
T5towbar wrote:
ddaly241 wrote:

If UAX had a terminal built, how many gates would you think it could have?


Not including the E175 type gates at Terminal C, which are a about 6 or 7, (that also get the E145 YQB flight that has to arrive in customs at B or C), and if you ran a summer peak schedule, UAX was a 21 gate operation for E145 type jets (16 gates at Term A; 5 hardstand gates at C) Out of those 16 Gates at A, 6 could be used for E175 type aircraft without shutting down a adjacent gate. If needed and UAX was shut down due to weather, Terminal A could handle 5 or 6 737/320 type aircraft, by shutting down adjacent gates. Which has been done before when UAX was shut down and mainline needed gates for arrivals. A couple of those gates could also handle a 757 as well. I'm quite sure that any new gates needed would be a mix of mainline and express. I think that C5 was in the process of a small build up since ExpressJet was supposed to fly the E175, but that was changed, and those aforementioned carriers was to team up to fly those planes. Republic and GoJet would fly the larger aircraft. 16 E145 gates that can also handle 6 E170/C550 without any gate closure would fit into a 10 gate mainline footprint. That is what A-2 is/was at present. Now everything is in C for the foreseeable future.

Oh, and that fiasco with Gate 40-41 was IIRC, had something to do with the leaving of JFK, and DL received the slots which let UA use those two gates. Someone with more knowledge of the deal, help me out. It lasted for 1 summer, and DL took back the gates.


When did UA use 40-41? Last time I was there flying DL, those gates were being used by Spirit


Last summer UA used them for a few flights as A2 and C gates were packed. They are common use gates so theoretically UA could still use them but they didn't plan on needing them this year even before Covid19.

Right now UA is using C for all departures and domestic arrivals. UAs international arrivals are going into B as the C FIS is temporarily closed.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
ddaly241
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Re: Newark Airport Future

Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:49 pm

United1 wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
T5towbar wrote:

Not including the E175 type gates at Terminal C, which are a about 6 or 7, (that also get the E145 YQB flight that has to arrive in customs at B or C), and if you ran a summer peak schedule, UAX was a 21 gate operation for E145 type jets (16 gates at Term A; 5 hardstand gates at C) Out of those 16 Gates at A, 6 could be used for E175 type aircraft without shutting down a adjacent gate. If needed and UAX was shut down due to weather, Terminal A could handle 5 or 6 737/320 type aircraft, by shutting down adjacent gates. Which has been done before when UAX was shut down and mainline needed gates for arrivals. A couple of those gates could also handle a 757 as well. I'm quite sure that any new gates needed would be a mix of mainline and express. I think that C5 was in the process of a small build up since ExpressJet was supposed to fly the E175, but that was changed, and those aforementioned carriers was to team up to fly those planes. Republic and GoJet would fly the larger aircraft. 16 E145 gates that can also handle 6 E170/C550 without any gate closure would fit into a 10 gate mainline footprint. That is what A-2 is/was at present. Now everything is in C for the foreseeable future.

Oh, and that fiasco with Gate 40-41 was IIRC, had something to do with the leaving of JFK, and DL received the slots which let UA use those two gates. Someone with more knowledge of the deal, help me out. It lasted for 1 summer, and DL took back the gates.


When did UA use 40-41? Last time I was there flying DL, those gates were being used by Spirit


Last summer UA used them for a few flights as A2 and C gates were packed. They are common use gates so theoretically UA could still use them but they didn't plan on needing them this year even before Covid19.

Right now UA is using C for all departures and domestic arrivals. UAs international arrivals are going into B as the C FIS is temporarily closed.


I'm guessing that will all change when the new terminal 1 is built. United will be able to shift some of their operations into the new terminal 1, and it will give some room for terminal C.

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