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departedflights
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British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:24 pm

I am here seeking some information. (It would be factual information, not a poll or preference, so I would really appreciate it if the mods would keep it in the Civil Aviation forum.)

I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.

However, I am looking at some March 1980 OAG schedules and I see a British Airways DC-10 was operating between London and Los Angeles. I haven't searched for any other routes.

Does anyone have any information pertaining to BA and the DC-10 that far back?

Thank you for any assistance.
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:30 pm

departedflights wrote:
I am here seeking some information. (It would be factual information, not a poll or preference, so I would really appreciate it if the mods would keep it in the Civil Aviation forum.)

I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.

However, I am looking at some March 1980 OAG schedules and I see a British Airways DC-10 was operating between London and Los Angeles. I haven't searched for any other routes.

Does anyone have any information pertaining to BA and the DC-10 that far back?

Thank you for any assistance.


It was part of an interchange deal with Air New Zealand. NZ, flew the DC-10s AKL-HNL-LAX, and BA did the LAX-LHR part.
 
Unclekoru
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:34 pm

departedflights wrote:
I am here seeking some information. (It would be factual information, not a poll or preference, so I would really appreciate it if the mods would keep it in the Civil Aviation forum.)

I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.

However, I am looking at some March 1980 OAG schedules and I see a British Airways DC-10 was operating between London and Los Angeles. I haven't searched for any other routes.

Does anyone have any information pertaining to BA and the DC-10 that far back?

Thank you for any assistance.


British Airways operated Air New Zealand DC-10's between LAX and LHR between 1974 and early 1982 (or thereabouts). The agreement was introduced due to the NZ governments inability to successfully negotiate traffic rights for Air New Zealand to operate the service in its own right. BA pilots and cabin crew took over the incoming plane in LA and essentially providing a same plane service from NZ to the UK. I believe the DC-10s were also used by BA for there own stand alone services in what would otherwise be down time between flights at LHR.
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cedarjet
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:40 pm

I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.
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departedflights
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:42 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
departedflights wrote:
I am here seeking some information. (It would be factual information, not a poll or preference, so I would really appreciate it if the mods would keep it in the Civil Aviation forum.)

I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.

However, I am looking at some March 1980 OAG schedules and I see a British Airways DC-10 was operating between London and Los Angeles. I haven't searched for any other routes.

Does anyone have any information pertaining to BA and the DC-10 that far back?

Thank you for any assistance.


It was part of an interchange deal with Air New Zealand. NZ, flew the DC-10s AKL-HNL-LAX, and BA did the LAX-LHR part.


Thank you so much for that! I appreciate it! That makes sense!
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
Bhoy
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:43 pm

From https://tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/thre ... c10-digest

From January 1974 an inter-change agreement was commenced between AIR NEW ZEALAND/BRITISH AIRWAYS. This arrangement resulted in the airlines DC-10's being operated by BRITISH AIRWAYS, and flown and staffed by BA crews, on daily Los Angeles/London/Los Angeles services .... and which preceded the airline eventually operating its own twice weekly Los Angeles/London services which commenced (with B747-200's) from August 25th 1982. The aircraft which operated these services remained in definitive AIR NEW ZEALAND livery .... with just their seat head-rests and cabin service items bearing the BRITISH AIRWAYS brand.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:45 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.


The aircraft were indeed operated by BA pilots. It was a different world back then.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:50 pm

Unclekoru wrote:
I believe the DC-10s were also used by BA for there own stand alone services in what would otherwise be down time between flights at LHR.


I guess this could be one of these occasion, unless Air New Zealand did flew there at least once: https://flic.kr/p/dN44yS
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:04 pm

Unclekoru wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.


The aircraft were indeed operated by BA pilots. It was a different world back then.


Braniff pilots flew the Concorde from Dulles to DFW & then back after it was flown (obviously) by their French/British counterparts to Dulles across the Atlantic Ocean; that included a registration change (a sticker applied) on the aircraft as well. As said above, different world back then.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:06 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.


The BA flight were NOT a codeshare at all - BA699 operated as a BA flight and interline only TE001 operated over the Pacific .

The DC10s were also deployed from Heathrow to Montreal and Miami for British Airways
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:10 pm

I thought the pilots were NZ (TE back then) and the cabin crew BA.

Other routes the DC-10's operated were LHR-YMX, LHR-MIA and once only in 1979 or 1980 LHR-JFK.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:24 pm

A couple of photos in the database here have information about it in the captions:


Seen climbing away from runway 27 Right for Los Angeles,this flight was operated by BA crews from LHR to LA.



Air New Zealand DC-10-30 enroute LHR-LAX, in flight over Greenland. After landing at LAX, the aircraft continued to Auckland, New Zealand. During this time, Air New Zealand was flying in co-operation with British Airways (using BA fligth number) on the LHR-LAX route. Departing LAX the flight was a Air New Zealand flight, using its own flight number and call sign.


As an aside, it is still one of my favourite livery/type combinations.



V/F
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:28 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.



CODESHARES did not emerge until the mid-90s when the skies became less regulated with open skies agreements. The codeshare between United and British Airways in the late 80s was a breakthrough in this new way to market flights.

Prior to this, aircraft interchanges where airlines swapped aircraft time and had crew from each airline operating the same aircraft was a common way to get around regulation and designated carriers.

Your post lacks perspective of the industry that existed at that time.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:20 pm

Air New Zealand Dc-10-30's provided BA with a long range smaller than 747 airplane. It was a mutually winning solution for both airlines, little did BA know they would be flying a whole fleet of Dc-10's just 6 years later from the British Caledonian merger.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:48 am

Thanks for all the info. Did not know of this particular interchange. I'm more familiar with the DL/PA interchange in which DL DC-8s and later DL 747s flew into LHR during the 1970s.

Interesting side note....if I recall correctly. BOAC (later BA) was originally leaning towards ordering the DC-10 as BOAC figured it would have been a somewhat more capable long range plane for thinner routes compared to the TriStar (the longer range L-1011-500 didn't enter service until 1979, incidentally with BA). But the British government apparently persuaded BA to buy the L-1011 with its RR engines.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:11 am

Begs the question then was the LHR service annulled during the temporary DC-10 grounding in 1979? TE continued to serve LAX with the DC-8-50 during that time...what about LHR? Any BA DC-8 pilots?
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:35 am

I flew straight through on that service in Sept 74 LHR LAX PPT AKL.
Same seat, same aircraft but two different flights. British airways staff seemed miffed to work economy, in fact seemed miffed to work at all. In those days alcoholic drinks on both legs had to be purchased in GBP or extremly reluctantly USD on the first leg in spite of it being enroute to the US and IATA rules dictating that USD was the universal currency for such flights. I had to point this out to them otherwise I would not have got a beer, having only having USD and NZD with me . BA retaliated though. My change was in pence! I'd hoped they would give me my beer for free.
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:02 am

Unclekoru wrote:
I believe the DC-10s were also used by BA for there own stand alone services in what would otherwise be down time between flights at LHR.


I don’t believe so. I worked at BA in mid ‘70s to early ‘80s and the NZ DC-10s used to be parked in the maintenance area pretty much all the time between arriving from and departing to LAX.

cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane.


You should be amazed then, because they did. I used to play cricket with one such pilot who had some interesting stories about flying the DC-10 compared to other types in the fleet at that time.
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:32 am

Didn't BA have their own DC-10s as well? Were these too a part of the NZ agreement?
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:44 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
Didn't BA have their own DC-10s as well? Were these too a part of the NZ agreement?

From the photo you tried to post:

First delivered to Ariana Afghan Airlines in September 1979 as YA-LAS. Joined British Caledonian in March 1985 as G-MULL, absorbed into British Airways in April 1988 until July 2000.


Nothing to do with Air NZ, but rather the purchase of British Caledonian, as mentioned by the thread starter
departedflights wrote:
I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.


One question I have - did the joint BA service end with the departure of the DC-10 fleet? I know the 747 opened NZ's own service to Gatwick in August 1982, but was that type used at all in combination with BA prior to that? And with the commencement of the Gatwick service did BA continue to have any involvement with Air New Zealand's services?



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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:08 am

SueD wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.


The BA flight were NOT a codeshare at all - BA699 operated as a BA flight and interline only TE001 operated over the Pacific .

The DC10s were also deployed from Heathrow to Montreal and Miami for British Airways


The flight numbers were BA599 (LHR-LAX) and BA598 eastbound LAX-LHR.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:27 am

And according to this site the DC10's also showed up at BOS & PHL:
http://www.departedflights.com/BA011680p11.html
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:28 am

First delivered to Ariana Afghan Airlines in September 1979 as YA-LAS. Joined British Caledonian in March 1985 as G-MULL, absorbed into British Airways in April 1988 until July 2000.

Here you see how much time have passed : an aircraft delivered to Ariana BEFORE ending up at BA !
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:04 pm

I flew on a BA flight LHR-BOS in 1980on a Air NZ DC10 all crew BA
 
B764er
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:12 pm

I just saw a video in YouTube of a BA DC10 landing and later on, taking off from PHX. it was in full Landor BA colours too. The video is from 1997. Don't know how many more they had but I just saw proof that at least there was one. So funny that I left this thread and next up I see this video. I was curious as well.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:21 pm

B764er wrote:
Don't know how many more they had but I just saw proof that at least there was one.


There was the interchange between Air NZ and BA, which is the topic of this thread, and then, from 1988 there were the eight DC-10-30s BA got with the acquisition of British Caledonian. TThose eight were indeed painted in Landor livery.
 
SueD
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:33 pm

iRISH251 wrote:
SueD wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.


The BA flight were NOT a codeshare at all - BA699 operated as a BA flight and interline only TE001 operated over the Pacific .

The DC10s were also deployed from Heathrow to Montreal and Miami for British Airways


The flight numbers were BA599 (LHR-LAX) and BA598 eastbound LAX-LHR.


Sorry finger slip yes you are correct my mistake
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:44 pm

There was a time when BA used two NZ Dc-10s one to cover the daily LHR to LAX and the second one used for Montreal and Miami. Also going by the Air NZ historical timetable they only used 5 Dc-10s for their operation so still had a maintenance spare when the fleet was at 8 before 1979.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:00 pm

Seeing that CPAir livery in the background makes me wistful. That was always my favorite livery of any airline.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:19 pm

I think there was a recession at the time (not sure if global or around NZ) and TE didn't need the 8 DC-10's so BA used an extra one. So we know they wound up at YMX, BOS, PHL, MIA and JFK once.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:36 pm

Curious, when the service ended what would the BA pilots have moved to?
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ANDY3
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:37 pm

I flew an Air New Zealand DC-10 in August 1988 from LHR to MIA on a BA flight. If I remember cerrectly the crew was Air New Zealand.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:45 pm

ANDY3 wrote:
I flew an Air New Zealand DC-10 in August 1988 from LHR to MIA on a BA flight. If I remember cerrectly the crew was Air New Zealand.


I doubt that. By then, NZ no longer had the DC-10s in its fleet.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:57 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Curious, when the service ended what would the BA pilots have moved to?

Could have been anything. I once met a Concorde first officer who then went over to the TriStar, but if I had to hazard a guess the TriStars were the closest thing to a 10.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:23 pm

tnair1974 wrote:
Interesting side note....if I recall correctly. BOAC (later BA) was originally leaning towards ordering the DC-10 as BOAC figured it would have been a somewhat more capable long range plane for thinner routes compared to the TriStar (the longer range L-1011-500 didn't enter service until 1979, incidentally with BA). But the British government apparently persuaded BA to buy the L-1011 with its RR engines.

Not quite a correct recollection.

The TriStar 1 was ordered by BEA for shorthaul flights. The RR engines were a factor in the purchase, even if the aircraft was possibly too big for BEA's needs. There was proposed BAC-311 that never got off the drawing board as well as the A300, but the possibility to use RR engines was lost early on.

However, by the time the TriStar 1s were delivered BA had been formed and they were delivered in the Negus & Negus livery. BA was looking for a longhaul aircraft smaller than the 747 that could ultimately replace the VC-10 and 707 on longer, thinner routes. Douglas tried to tempt them with a proposed DC-10-50 with RR engines but ultimately BA went for the TriStar 500. They then went on to order the TriStar 200 fo mid-haul routes (e.g. the Gulf and on to India and South East Asia, as well as North America). The TriStar 500s left the fleet in the recession of the early 1980s after the Falkland's War when the RAF had a sudden need for a longhaul plane for air-to-air fuelling and transport; the TriStar 200s were traded in as part of the original 767-336ER order; and two-thirds of the TriStar 1 fleet ended up with BA's charter subsidiary Caledonian Airways.
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:49 am

FlyCaledonian wrote:
The TriStar 500s left the fleet in the recession of the early 1980s after the Falkland's War when the RAF had a sudden need for a longhaul plane for air-to-air fueling...


The original six -500s, yes. However G-BLUS and G-BLUT were in service in the mid-80s. Living in England at the time, I visited LHR regularly from '85-'88 for plane watching and they were residents during that time...how much of that time I can't say at the moment as I'm not able to properly research it.
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:22 am

G-BLUS and T were leased in from Air Lanka
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:53 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
And with the commencement of the Gatwick service did BA continue to have any involvement with Air New Zealand's services?



V/F


Air NZ and BA’s cooperation was downgraded, but it continued for a decade afterwards. Both flew between London and Auckland with their own aircraft, but they also sold an array of connecting itineraries at mid points ranging from Singapore, Los Angeles or Kuala Lumpur.

When Air NZ was privatised in the late 1980s, BA was part of an unsuccessful consortium that bid for share in airline.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:45 pm

G-BLUT is not a very nice registration for an aircraft when your native language is Germany ;)
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:29 pm

mchei wrote:
G-BLUT is not a very nice registration for an aircraft when your native language is Germany ;)


I didn't know Germany was a language BLOL BLOL BLOL.

However, thankfully BLUS & BLUT were never scheduled to Germany, their sole purpose was to fly LHR-GIG-GRU when BA & BCAL did their route swap: BA got Brazil and BCAL got Saudi Arabia. BA didn't have any suitable aircraft for the route (frequency AND seat capacity controlled by Brazil) so 747's were too big and there weren't enough L1011-200's in the fleet (which may have had issues with the range anyway- not sure).
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:20 pm

scbriml wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane.


You should be amazed then, because they did. I used to play cricket with one such pilot who had some interesting stories about flying the DC-10 compared to other types in the fleet at that time.


scbriml - I’d love to hear some of those stories.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:36 pm

mchei wrote:
G-BLUT is not a very nice registration for an aircraft when your native language is Germany ;)

This Hellenic Imperial 747 spent a few years operating to Manchester, eventually they had to change the registration to SX-TIE as passengers refused to travel on it...

 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:13 am

There are some photos in the database of the ex-BCAL DC-10s operating LGW-LAX with a tag-on to SAN. Always thought that was interesting - how long did British Airways run that extra 20-minute hop to San Diego?
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:39 am

FlyCaledonian wrote:
tnair1974 wrote:
Interesting side note....if I recall correctly. BOAC (later BA) was originally leaning towards ordering the DC-10 as BOAC figured it would have been a somewhat more capable long range plane for thinner routes compared to the TriStar (the longer range L-1011-500 didn't enter service until 1979, incidentally with BA). But the British government apparently persuaded BA to buy the L-1011 with its RR engines.

Not quite a correct recollection.

The TriStar 1 was ordered by BEA for shorthaul flights. The RR engines were a factor in the purchase, even if the aircraft was possibly too big for BEA's needs. There was proposed BAC-311 that never got off the drawing board as well as the A300, but the possibility to use RR engines was lost early on.

However, by the time the TriStar 1s were delivered BA had been formed and they were delivered in the Negus & Negus livery. BA was looking for a longhaul aircraft smaller than the 747 that could ultimately replace the VC-10 and 707 on longer, thinner routes. Douglas tried to tempt them with a proposed DC-10-50 with RR engines but ultimately BA went for the TriStar 500. They then went on to order the TriStar 200 fo mid-haul routes (e.g. the Gulf and on to India and South East Asia, as well as North America). The TriStar 500s left the fleet in the recession of the early 1980s after the Falkland's War when the RAF had a sudden need for a longhaul plane for air-to-air fuelling and transport; the TriStar 200s were traded in as part of the original 767-336ER order; and two-thirds of the TriStar 1 fleet ended up with BA's charter subsidiary Caledonian Airways.

Thanks for the great information. I was unaware of BEA ordering TriStars….and wanting them for shorter routes. But upon looking closer at pics of the L-1011 prototype, sure enough the BEA logo is among the other airline emblems. I also happened upon pictures of an L-1011 in hybrid EAL/BEA colors.

So much for my memory :roll: (my reading memory anyway, I wasn't even born when the TriStar made its maiden flight). But I did learn of the proposed idea of a RR powered DC-10-50 years ago when there was a discussion of RR powered MD-11s. As many of us know, RR MD-11s also did not become reality. Anyway, it might be argued that the long range DC-10s were superior in many ways to the long range L-1011-500s. But new BA DC-10s would have meant yet another type in the BA fleet even if they might have been RR powered.
 
mchei
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:43 am

eta unknown wrote:
mchei wrote:
G-BLUT is not a very nice registration for an aircraft when your native language is Germany ;)


I didn't know Germany was a language BLOL BLOL BLOL.



German as language is strange enough, now imagine Germany as a language :)
F70-F100-E145-E170-E190-319-320-321-735–736-737-738-752-763–742-744-333-343-ATR72-Metroliner-Saab2000-Lockheed Electra-C172-C182-C182RG-MD11
 
giblets
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:53 am

My favourite story was the G-MULL got damaged by a SAM when in Ariana service, before being repaired and sold the B-Cal (where I had the pleasure of flying on her many times)


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146, ATR72, Q400, Saab 340, PA-46 Jetprop, Jetstream, E175/195, 707/727/737/747/757/767/777, DC-3/9/10, MD-11/80, A300/310/319/320/321/330/340/350/380 Tristar, BAC 1-11, Trident, Chipmunk, Bell 206/222, Chinook, Puma, Cessna 172, Fokker 70, 100, SRN4!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7001
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:40 am

tnair1974 wrote:
Thanks for the great information. I was unaware of BEA ordering TriStars….and wanting them for shorter routes. But upon looking closer at pics of the L-1011 prototype, sure enough the BEA logo is among the other airline emblems. I also happened upon pictures of an L-1011 in hybrid EAL/BEA colors.






tnair1974 wrote:
So much for my memory :roll: (my reading memory anyway, I wasn't even born when the TriStar made its maiden flight). But I did learn of the proposed idea of a RR powered DC-10-50 years ago when there was a discussion of RR powered MD-11s. As many of us know, RR MD-11s also did not become reality. Anyway, it might be argued that the long range DC-10s were superior in many ways to the long range L-1011-500s. But new BA DC-10s would have meant yet another type in the BA fleet even if they might have been RR powered.


By the end of the '80s or early '90, BA's L-1011s were transferred to KT, parked or sold. Also, had they ordered DC-10-30Rs this could have meant the end of the L-1011-100s or -200s.
 
Lofty
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:23 pm

Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:50 am

Information taken from "British Airways, Its History, Aircraft and Liveries"

Interchange started in May 1975 due to the B747 being too big and L1011 out of range. Agreement was due for 4 years.
In 1978 BA started B747 on LAX route so used the DC10 on 5 x Miami 3 x Montreal plus 2 x LAX (this was to feed the DC10 back into the ANZ operation)
The agreement finished in April 1979
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1924
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:04 pm

TWAL1011 wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.



CODESHARES did not emerge until the mid-90s when the skies became less regulated with open skies agreements. The codeshare between United and British Airways in the late 80s was a breakthrough in this new way to market flights.

Prior to this, aircraft interchanges where airlines swapped aircraft time and had crew from each airline operating the same aircraft was a common way to get around regulation and designated carriers.

Your post lacks perspective of the industry that existed at that time.


Codeshares began to emerge before the mid-1990s. The first game changer one was the NW/KL deal which was struck around 1989. The Atlantic Excellence partnership, which involved Delta, Swissair, and later was extended to include Singapore Airlines, also emerged well before the mid-1990s. British Airways and USAir also entered into a code share and joint marketing deal in 1991 where some US 767-200ER's were repainted in BA's Landor livery. AA and QF's partnerships date back a long time.
 
pa747sp
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:41 pm

Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:29 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
TWAL1011 wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.



CODESHARES did not emerge until the mid-90s when the skies became less regulated with open skies agreements. The codeshare between United and British Airways in the late 80s was a breakthrough in this new way to market flights.

Prior to this, aircraft interchanges where airlines swapped aircraft time and had crew from each airline operating the same aircraft was a common way to get around regulation and designated carriers.

Your post lacks perspective of the industry that existed at that time.


Codeshares began to emerge before the mid-1990s. The first game changer one was the NW/KL deal which was struck around 1989. The Atlantic Excellence partnership, which involved Delta, Swissair, and later was extended to include Singapore Airlines, also emerged well before the mid-1990s. British Airways and USAir also entered into a code share and joint marketing deal in 1991 where some US 767-200ER's were repainted in BA's Landor livery. AA and QF's partnerships date back a long time.


Continental had a codeshare with Transavia between LGW at a city in The Netherlands in 1988
Nothing seems as good since the VC10.

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