Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
departedflights wrote:I am here seeking some information. (It would be factual information, not a poll or preference, so I would really appreciate it if the mods would keep it in the Civil Aviation forum.)
I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.
However, I am looking at some March 1980 OAG schedules and I see a British Airways DC-10 was operating between London and Los Angeles. I haven't searched for any other routes.
Does anyone have any information pertaining to BA and the DC-10 that far back?
Thank you for any assistance.
departedflights wrote:I am here seeking some information. (It would be factual information, not a poll or preference, so I would really appreciate it if the mods would keep it in the Civil Aviation forum.)
I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.
However, I am looking at some March 1980 OAG schedules and I see a British Airways DC-10 was operating between London and Los Angeles. I haven't searched for any other routes.
Does anyone have any information pertaining to BA and the DC-10 that far back?
Thank you for any assistance.
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:departedflights wrote:I am here seeking some information. (It would be factual information, not a poll or preference, so I would really appreciate it if the mods would keep it in the Civil Aviation forum.)
I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.
However, I am looking at some March 1980 OAG schedules and I see a British Airways DC-10 was operating between London and Los Angeles. I haven't searched for any other routes.
Does anyone have any information pertaining to BA and the DC-10 that far back?
Thank you for any assistance.
It was part of an interchange deal with Air New Zealand. NZ, flew the DC-10s AKL-HNL-LAX, and BA did the LAX-LHR part.
From January 1974 an inter-change agreement was commenced between AIR NEW ZEALAND/BRITISH AIRWAYS. This arrangement resulted in the airlines DC-10's being operated by BRITISH AIRWAYS, and flown and staffed by BA crews, on daily Los Angeles/London/Los Angeles services .... and which preceded the airline eventually operating its own twice weekly Los Angeles/London services which commenced (with B747-200's) from August 25th 1982. The aircraft which operated these services remained in definitive AIR NEW ZEALAND livery .... with just their seat head-rests and cabin service items bearing the BRITISH AIRWAYS brand.
cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.
Unclekoru wrote:I believe the DC-10s were also used by BA for there own stand alone services in what would otherwise be down time between flights at LHR.
Unclekoru wrote:cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.
The aircraft were indeed operated by BA pilots. It was a different world back then.
cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.
Seen climbing away from runway 27 Right for Los Angeles,this flight was operated by BA crews from LHR to LA.
Air New Zealand DC-10-30 enroute LHR-LAX, in flight over Greenland. After landing at LAX, the aircraft continued to Auckland, New Zealand. During this time, Air New Zealand was flying in co-operation with British Airways (using BA fligth number) on the LHR-LAX route. Departing LAX the flight was a Air New Zealand flight, using its own flight number and call sign.
cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.
Unclekoru wrote:I believe the DC-10s were also used by BA for there own stand alone services in what would otherwise be down time between flights at LHR.
cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane.
DIJKKIJK wrote:Didn't BA have their own DC-10s as well? Were these too a part of the NZ agreement?
First delivered to Ariana Afghan Airlines in September 1979 as YA-LAS. Joined British Caledonian in March 1985 as G-MULL, absorbed into British Airways in April 1988 until July 2000.
departedflights wrote:I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.
SueD wrote:cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.
The BA flight were NOT a codeshare at all - BA699 operated as a BA flight and interline only TE001 operated over the Pacific .
The DC10s were also deployed from Heathrow to Montreal and Miami for British Airways
First delivered to Ariana Afghan Airlines in September 1979 as YA-LAS. Joined British Caledonian in March 1985 as G-MULL, absorbed into British Airways in April 1988 until July 2000.
B764er wrote:Don't know how many more they had but I just saw proof that at least there was one.
iRISH251 wrote:SueD wrote:cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.
The BA flight were NOT a codeshare at all - BA699 operated as a BA flight and interline only TE001 operated over the Pacific .
The DC10s were also deployed from Heathrow to Montreal and Miami for British Airways
The flight numbers were BA599 (LHR-LAX) and BA598 eastbound LAX-LHR.
ANDY3 wrote:I flew an Air New Zealand DC-10 in August 1988 from LHR to MIA on a BA flight. If I remember cerrectly the crew was Air New Zealand.
readytotaxi wrote:Curious, when the service ended what would the BA pilots have moved to?
tnair1974 wrote:Interesting side note....if I recall correctly. BOAC (later BA) was originally leaning towards ordering the DC-10 as BOAC figured it would have been a somewhat more capable long range plane for thinner routes compared to the TriStar (the longer range L-1011-500 didn't enter service until 1979, incidentally with BA). But the British government apparently persuaded BA to buy the L-1011 with its RR engines.
FlyCaledonian wrote:The TriStar 500s left the fleet in the recession of the early 1980s after the Falkland's War when the RAF had a sudden need for a longhaul plane for air-to-air fueling...
VirginFlyer wrote:And with the commencement of the Gatwick service did BA continue to have any involvement with Air New Zealand's services?
V/F
mchei wrote:G-BLUT is not a very nice registration for an aircraft when your native language is Germany
scbriml wrote:cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane.
You should be amazed then, because they did. I used to play cricket with one such pilot who had some interesting stories about flying the DC-10 compared to other types in the fleet at that time.
mchei wrote:G-BLUT is not a very nice registration for an aircraft when your native language is Germany
FlyCaledonian wrote:tnair1974 wrote:Interesting side note....if I recall correctly. BOAC (later BA) was originally leaning towards ordering the DC-10 as BOAC figured it would have been a somewhat more capable long range plane for thinner routes compared to the TriStar (the longer range L-1011-500 didn't enter service until 1979, incidentally with BA). But the British government apparently persuaded BA to buy the L-1011 with its RR engines.
Not quite a correct recollection.
The TriStar 1 was ordered by BEA for shorthaul flights. The RR engines were a factor in the purchase, even if the aircraft was possibly too big for BEA's needs. There was proposed BAC-311 that never got off the drawing board as well as the A300, but the possibility to use RR engines was lost early on.
However, by the time the TriStar 1s were delivered BA had been formed and they were delivered in the Negus & Negus livery. BA was looking for a longhaul aircraft smaller than the 747 that could ultimately replace the VC-10 and 707 on longer, thinner routes. Douglas tried to tempt them with a proposed DC-10-50 with RR engines but ultimately BA went for the TriStar 500. They then went on to order the TriStar 200 fo mid-haul routes (e.g. the Gulf and on to India and South East Asia, as well as North America). The TriStar 500s left the fleet in the recession of the early 1980s after the Falkland's War when the RAF had a sudden need for a longhaul plane for air-to-air fuelling and transport; the TriStar 200s were traded in as part of the original 767-336ER order; and two-thirds of the TriStar 1 fleet ended up with BA's charter subsidiary Caledonian Airways.
eta unknown wrote:mchei wrote:G-BLUT is not a very nice registration for an aircraft when your native language is Germany
I didn't know Germany was a language BLOL BLOL BLOL.
tnair1974 wrote:Thanks for the great information. I was unaware of BEA ordering TriStars….and wanting them for shorter routes. But upon looking closer at pics of the L-1011 prototype, sure enough the BEA logo is among the other airline emblems. I also happened upon pictures of an L-1011 in hybrid EAL/BEA colors.
tnair1974 wrote:So much for my memory (my reading memory anyway, I wasn't even born when the TriStar made its maiden flight). But I did learn of the proposed idea of a RR powered DC-10-50 years ago when there was a discussion of RR powered MD-11s. As many of us know, RR MD-11s also did not become reality. Anyway, it might be argued that the long range DC-10s were superior in many ways to the long range L-1011-500s. But new BA DC-10s would have meant yet another type in the BA fleet even if they might have been RR powered.
TWAL1011 wrote:cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.
CODESHARES did not emerge until the mid-90s when the skies became less regulated with open skies agreements. The codeshare between United and British Airways in the late 80s was a breakthrough in this new way to market flights.
Prior to this, aircraft interchanges where airlines swapped aircraft time and had crew from each airline operating the same aircraft was a common way to get around regulation and designated carriers.
Your post lacks perspective of the industry that existed at that time.
Cointrin330 wrote:TWAL1011 wrote:cedarjet wrote:I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.
CODESHARES did not emerge until the mid-90s when the skies became less regulated with open skies agreements. The codeshare between United and British Airways in the late 80s was a breakthrough in this new way to market flights.
Prior to this, aircraft interchanges where airlines swapped aircraft time and had crew from each airline operating the same aircraft was a common way to get around regulation and designated carriers.
Your post lacks perspective of the industry that existed at that time.
Codeshares began to emerge before the mid-1990s. The first game changer one was the NW/KL deal which was struck around 1989. The Atlantic Excellence partnership, which involved Delta, Swissair, and later was extended to include Singapore Airlines, also emerged well before the mid-1990s. British Airways and USAir also entered into a code share and joint marketing deal in 1991 where some US 767-200ER's were repainted in BA's Landor livery. AA and QF's partnerships date back a long time.