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NZ516
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:43 pm

Lofty wrote:
Information taken from "British Airways, Its History, Aircraft and Liveries"

Interchange started in May 1975 due to the B747 being too big and L1011 out of range. Agreement was due for 4 years.
In 1978 BA started B747 on LAX route so used the DC10 on 5 x Miami 3 x Montreal plus 2 x LAX (this was to feed the DC10 back into the ANZ operation)
The agreement finished in April 1979


Very much appreciated thanks Lofty. So BA used them for a total of 10 flights per week from 1978 which would have kept two DC-10s fairly busy before returning to NZ.
 
SueD
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:16 pm

If you want to be pedantic I could point you to a British Airways and Alitalia sort of codeshare that operated in the seventies between Manchester and Milan six days a week and Rome on a Sunday plus a British Airways /KLM joint flight than operated between Manchester and Amsterdam midday.

However these weren’t really anything like the current codeshares (of which there are several differing varieties by the way).

No these operated within the European Pooling arrangement with the various European flag carriers and common IATA fare structure .

All that is drift from the original thread i acknowledge

Could bring in that there were also a few french DC-10s flown in world colours by the subsidiary Air Liberté

 
ZuluTime
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:32 pm

My favourite story was the G-MULL got damaged by a SAM when in Ariana service, before being repaired and sold the B-Cal (where I had the pleasure of flying on her many times


G-MULL had a large metal plate repair on the wing (think it was the left side) where the SAM missile had hit when it was in service with Ariana. The missile had apparently been fired too close to the aircraft and blew a hole through the wing but didn't explode on impact. It was one of two second-hand aircraft picked up by BCal around 1985 - all the rest of the BCal DC-10-30s had been factory new.

There are some photos in the database of the ex-BCAL DC-10s operating LGW-LAX with a tag-on to SAN. Always thought that was interesting - how long did British Airways run that extra 20-minute hop to San Diego?


The routing on this was Gatwick-Phoenix-San Diego - it was certainly never planned as an LAX service. It was one of the longest rotations in the DC-10 network and the aircraft either had a rest when it got back to Gatwick in the early afternoon or went off on that night's Dubai/Colombo rotation on the two or three days a week when that service operated.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:41 pm

SueD wrote:
Could bring in that there were also a few french DC-10s flown in world colours by the subsidiary Air Liberté



Actually just the one and, at the time of picture above bonds were cut with BA and was in fact linked to SAirGroup.

 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:48 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
SueD wrote:
Could bring in that there were also a few french DC-10s flown in world colours by the subsidiary Air Liberté



Actually just the one and, at the time of picture above bonds were cut with BA and was in fact linked to SAirGroup.


Interestingly, perhaps, two of Air New Zealand’s DC-10s would end up with Air Liberté through their merger with AOM, although of course neither wore the BA style scheme since the AOM merger took place after Air Liberté passed from BA to SAirGroup:




V/F
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afcjets
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:10 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.


The pilots weren't volunteering, they were paid a salary. LAX is a great destination, especially if you live in cold and cloudy London.
 
BA777FO
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:56 pm

cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.


That was literally what Concorde was!

Aside from the odd charter/BGI weekly flight.
 
Kiwiandrew
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:48 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
SueD wrote:
Could bring in that there were also a few french DC-10s flown in world colours by the subsidiary Air Liberté



Actually just the one and, at the time of picture above bonds were cut with BA and was in fact linked to SAirGroup.


Interestingly, perhaps, two of Air New Zealand’s DC-10s would end up with Air Liberté through their merger with AOM, although of course neither wore the BA style scheme since the AOM merger took place after Air Liberté passed from BA to SAirGroup:




V/F


As an aside, the last DC-10 shown there ( formerly ZK-NZS) is still sitting derelict at Havana Airport, and is the subject of a 'rescue' attempt, to bring her back to Aotearoa/New Zealand for a museum ( together with a former NZ DC-8 and 737-200 )
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:31 am

BA777FO wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.


That was literally what Concorde was!

Aside from the odd charter/BGI weekly flight.


1979 was the best year to be Concorde crew. you’d get the option of New York, Washington, Dallas, Bahrain and Singapore!
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:04 am

ZuluTime wrote:
My favourite story was the G-MULL got damaged by a SAM when in Ariana service, before being repaired and sold the B-Cal (where I had the pleasure of flying on her many times


G-MULL had a large metal plate repair on the wing (think it was the left side) where the SAM missile had hit when it was in service with Ariana. The missile had apparently been fired too close to the aircraft and blew a hole through the wing but didn't explode on impact. It was one of two second-hand aircraft picked up by BCal around 1985 - all the rest of the BCal DC-10-30s had been factory new.

There are some photos in the database of the ex-BCAL DC-10s operating LGW-LAX with a tag-on to SAN. Always thought that was interesting - how long did British Airways run that extra 20-minute hop to San Diego?


The routing on this was Gatwick-Phoenix-San Diego - it was certainly never planned as an LAX service. It was one of the longest rotations in the DC-10 network and the aircraft either had a rest when it got back to Gatwick in the early afternoon or went off on that night's Dubai/Colombo rotation on the two or three days a week when that service operated.



It was LGW-AUH-CMB, around 1996/7
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edina
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:27 am

LGW-AUH-CMB lasted 2 or 3 seasons before becoming LGW-DXB-CMB for 2 seasons.

LGW-LAX-SAN existed in the early 90s before PHX was launched.
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
 
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eta unknown
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:33 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
TWAL1011 wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
I would be pretty amazed if BA pilots flew the plane. Doesn’t make much sense to do typeratings for one route, not to mention I can’t imagine any pilots volunteering to literally fly to the same city four times a month for years. Let’s get serious. The word you’re looking for is CODESHARE.



CODESHARES did not emerge until the mid-90s when the skies became less regulated with open skies agreements. The codeshare between United and British Airways in the late 80s was a breakthrough in this new way to market flights.

Prior to this, aircraft interchanges where airlines swapped aircraft time and had crew from each airline operating the same aircraft was a common way to get around regulation and designated carriers.

Your post lacks perspective of the industry that existed at that time.


Codeshares began to emerge before the mid-1990s. The first game changer one was the NW/KL deal which was struck around 1989. The Atlantic Excellence partnership, which involved Delta, Swissair, and later was extended to include Singapore Airlines, also emerged well before the mid-1990s. British Airways and USAir also entered into a code share and joint marketing deal in 1991 where some US 767-200ER's were repainted in BA's Landor livery. AA and QF's partnerships date back a long time.

Actually prior to that was the Sabena/BCal codeshare from Oct'86 BRU-LGW-ATL using an SN 747-100 which BA unsuccessfully tried to stop.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:09 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
The routing on this was Gatwick-Phoenix-San Diego - it was certainly never planned as an LAX service. It was one of the longest rotations in the DC-10 network and the aircraft either had a rest when it got back to Gatwick in the early afternoon or went off on that night's Dubai/Colombo rotation on the two or three days a week when that service operated.

LGW-LAX-SAN was a BCal route retained by BA after the takeover. I think the SAN tag ended around the time of the recession following the First Gulf War, which also saw the LGW-LAX service move over to LHR as a second daily service there shortly after.

You are right that SAN returned in the mid-1990s on BA as a tag to the newly launched PHX service, which also saw BA codeshare with America West on a number of routes out of PHX. Launched as a five weekly service on the DC-10 it soon moved to daily before an up-gauge to the 747-436. I think the route went non-stop on the 777-236IGW shortly before 9/11, moved to LHR afterwards and was then dropped as BA retrenched in the 2000s before being relaunched for a third time.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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dennypayne
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:10 am

eta unknown wrote:
Actually prior to that was the Sabena/BCal codeshare from Oct'86 BRU-LGW-ATL using an SN 747-100 which BA unsuccessfully tried to stop.


Yep - I flew this in Dec '86 - OO-SGB from ATL-LGW and OO-SGA on the return. I still have the BCal boarding pass since it was my first 747 flight.
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amc737
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:00 am

Just to add to FlyCaledonians post the oldest timetable I have in the house is winter 91/92 and the only Gatwick to Los Angeles flight is Air New Zealand, as already mentioned BA had a double daily LHR-LAX BA283 & BA285, nothing to San Diego. I believe BA have had 3 goes at San Diego, the late 80's early 90's attempt and what I describe below.

I believe non-stop to Phoenix was launched on 1 July 1996, with a tag to San Diego with a DC10, the times were as follows:

BA277 LGW 12:00 PHX 14:35
BA276 PHX 21:30 LGW 15:50

Again as mentioned this meant on the DC-10's return to Gatwick the only flight it could operate was to Abu Dhabi & Colombo

BA137 LGW 23:30 AUH 09:40 days 2 & 6
BA136 AUH 00:05 LGW 04:50 days 1 & 4

I believe Phoenix/San Diego became a 747-400 with effect from the summer 1998 timetable on 29 March that year. Summer 2001 saw the route split with separate daily 777 services from Gatwick, both San Diego and Phoenix moved to Heathrow in October 2002 using a clause in the Bermuda II agreement, Phoenix has remained at Heathrow uninterrupted while SAN was dropped a year later in October 2003, before restarting in June 2011.

Back to the DC-10's, there was a mix of routes that where pretty much consistently flown like Atlanta & Dallas Fort Worth pretty much from the BCAL takeover to the winding down as the 10's got replaced by 767's/777's and routes that came and went, the above mentioned Abu Dhabi, I believe Baku was served in the late 90's with a DC10. As an example in the Summer 1997 timetable BA DC10s were scheduled to:

Accra (some via KAN)
Atlanta
Bermuda
Colombo (via DXB)
Dallas/Fort Worth
Dubai
Grand Cayman (some via NAS)
Kano (some via ACC)
Nassau (some via GCM)
Phoenix
San Diego (via PHX)
San Juan
Tampa

hope this adds to the chat

amc737
 
tnair1974
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:23 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
giblets wrote:
My favourite story was the G-MULL got damaged by a SAM when in Ariana service, before being repaired and sold the B-Cal (where I had the pleasure of flying on her many times

G-MULL had a large metal plate repair on the wing (think it was the left side) where the SAM missile had hit when it was in service with Ariana. The missile had apparently been fired too close to the aircraft and blew a hole through the wing but didn't explode on impact. It was one of two second-hand aircraft picked up by BCal around 1985 - all the rest of the BCal DC-10-30s had been factory new.


I've read conflicting accounts between G-MULL being struck by "explosive bullets" verses a SAM missile.
https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 19840921-0

An amazing survival story nevertheless.
 
OB1504
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:56 pm

Does anyone have any photos of the NZ DC-10 at MIA in BA service? The database has failed me.
 
Kiwiandrew
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:12 pm

OB1504 wrote:
Does anyone have any photos of the NZ DC-10 at MIA in BA service? The database has failed me.
I remember seeing photos many years ago, but haven't been able to locate any. Just to add to the confusion, Air NZ also leased out a DC-10 (ZK-NZS)for a short period (April to October 1979) to National Airlines in the U.S.....this also remained in their own colours, and mostly flew through MIA ... this means even if you do track down a pic at MIA, without seeing the registration, it wouldn't be possible to say for certain whether it was a BA flight or an NA flight
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:14 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:

Wow the Landor livery looked amazing on DC10s! :eek:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:33 am

LAX772LR wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:

Wow the Landor livery looked amazing on DC10s! :eek:

Indeed. It really seemed to suit trijets:




V/F
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:26 am

When BA merged with BCAL, did they really want the DC-10s, apart from the British made jets and Tristars' they had they were a loyal Boeing customer , I would have thought the would have kept BCAL's 747s and of loaded the DC-10s. The Landor livery did look stunning on the DC-10s, but I did also love that Royal Blue and Yellow Rampart Lion, I wished BA could have incorporated that into their livery some how.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:33 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
When BA merged with BCAL, did they really want the DC-10s, apart from the British made jets and Tristars' they had they were a loyal Boeing customer , I would have thought the would have kept BCAL's 747s and of loaded the DC-10s. The Landor livery did look stunning on the DC-10s, but I did also love that Royal Blue and Yellow Rampart Lion, I wished BA could have incorporated that into their livery some how.

It was also through BCal that BA inherited their original A320 order. That turned out alright for them...
 
amc737
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:47 pm

Of the 5 British Caledonian 747s, I believe 4 were GE90 powered so completely incompatible with British Airways P&W powered 747-100's and Rolls Royce powered 200's with 400's on order. The one JT9 powered 200 BCAL had would have been in a different configuration to the rest of the BA 747 fleet it would have made more sense to dispose than re-configure.

There was always lots of rumors that BA wanted rid of the DC-10's along with A320's they also inherited from BCAL. My view is that at the time the routes they flew were too thin for a 747, the only other aircraft below 747 size BA had for long haul was the L1011, even then as BA no longer had the L1011-500 while the L1011-50 could do east coast of the USA the L1011-200 would have been needed for DFW, Houston etc. British Airways only had 8 of these so would they would have been needed to be back filled. Of course the Gulf War and recession in the early 1990s saw the Tristar retired before the 777 which was meant to be their replacement arrive. Ultimately I think the fact the DC-10's where at Gatwick as a stand alone fleet saved them until enough 777's arrived to replace them.

amc737
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:51 pm

Flyingsottsman wrote:
When BA merged with BCAL, did they really want the DC-10s, apart from the British made jets and Tristars' they had they were a loyal Boeing customer , I would have thought the would have kept BCAL's 747s and of loaded the DC-10s. The Landor livery did look stunning on the DC-10s, but I did also love that Royal Blue and Yellow Rampart Lion, I wished BA could have incorporated that into their livery some how.

Six of the eight DC-10-30s were bought new from McDonnell Douglas and the other two were probably set up the same way after purchase. They were operating some long routes (e.g. LAX but also Southern Africa) where a 747 might have been overkill. Plus the BCal 747s were a rag-tag of secondhand acquisitions, some of which were leased, so replacing them with 747-236Bs cascaded from LHR as the large number of 747-436s came on stream probably made sense.

BA's longhaul TriStars were predominantly the -200 model, which didn't have the legs in the way the DC-10-30 did. If BA had upgraded the to the -250 then there might have been some logic to keeping the TriStars given the RB211s on the -250 was pretty the same as used on the 747-236B, plus the DC-10s would have had a higher resale value on the secondhand market. Ultimately though BA's TriStar 200s were traded in with Boeing as part of the 767-336ER order, which is why they mainly ended up stored in the dessert in the early 1990s despite being just over a decade old.

BA did ditch BCal's order for the MD-11 though, with I believe the first three frames intended for BCal ending up with AA. I guess that the size of the MD-11 (plus the GE powerplants) meant that it was at the time seen as too similar to the 747-436s on order. BA ultimately joined the 777 programme with Boeing and became a launch customer, and the DC-10s were ultimately replaced by a mix of 777-236s and 767-336ERs at LGW.

Bhoy wrote:
Flyingsottsman wrote:
When BA merged with BCAL, did they really want the DC-10s, apart from the British made jets and Tristars' they had they were a loyal Boeing customer , I would have thought the would have kept BCAL's 747s and of loaded the DC-10s. The Landor livery did look stunning on the DC-10s, but I did also love that Royal Blue and Yellow Rampart Lion, I wished BA could have incorporated that into their livery some how.

It was also through BCal that BA inherited their original A320 order. That turned out alright for them...

Well yes and no. After the first couple were delivered the A320s were switched from LGW to LHR where their 144 capacity gave a nice fit between the 106 seat 737-236ADV and 180 seat 757-236 for shorthaul services.

However, despite popularity with crews and passengers BA went on to place orders and options for up to 35 737 classics, ultimately taking delivery of 27 737-436s. At that point there were several suggestions the A320s would be sold, or transferred to TAT European that BA had bought a significant stake in. In the late 1990s BA did then settle on the A320 family for its shorthaul needs, but opted for IAE engined variants rather than the CFM powerplants used on the ex-BCal machines.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:12 pm

FlyCaledonian wrote:
Six of the eight DC-10-30s were bought new from McDonnell Douglas and the other two were probably set up the same way after purchase. They were operating some long routes (e.g. LAX but also Southern Africa) where a 747 might have been overkill. Plus the BCal 747s were a rag-tag of secondhand acquisitions, some of which were leased, so replacing them with 747-236Bs cascaded from LHR as the large number of 747-436s came on stream probably made sense.


Indeed. As a tidbit, between mid-1985 and early 1987, BR even had 10 DC-10-30s. Two of their brand-new delivered were sold to CO that year. Were they replaced literaly replaced by the rag-tags coming from RJ & WD?
 
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eta unknown
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:57 pm

The BCal 742's were a rag tag bunch, but IIRC most had GE engines, so commonality with the DC10-'s. I don't know how different the 747 configurations were.
 
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:09 pm

eta unknown wrote:
The BCal 742's were a rag tag bunch, but IIRC most had GE engines,


Yes, four out of five. Two former RJ and two former WD.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:16 pm

departedflights wrote:
I am here seeking some information. (It would be factual information, not a poll or preference, so I would really appreciate it if the mods would keep it in the Civil Aviation forum.)

I was always under the impression that British Airways did not operate any DC-10s until they acquired a fleet of that type from British Caledonian in the mid-1980s.

However, I am looking at some March 1980 OAG schedules and I see a British Airways DC-10 was operating between London and Los Angeles. I haven't searched for any other routes.

Does anyone have any information pertaining to BA and the DC-10 that far back?

Thank you for any assistance.


Nice thread bud.

If BCal counts so they've been in Brazil too:

 
Flyingsottsman
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:20 am

Did BCAL have to merge with BA, could they have still been around today if they didn't?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:26 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
Did BCAL have to merge with BA, could they have still been around today if they didn't?


I don't think so. I link the Wikipedia page, but I've read before that they were having a hard time not long before it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_C ... f_fortunes
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:41 am

amc737 wrote:
Of the 5 British Caledonian 747s, I believe 4 were GE90 powered


I'd love to see a picture of that!
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:45 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
amc737 wrote:
Of the 5 British Caledonian 747s, I believe 4 were GE90 powered


I'd love to see a picture of that!


https://www.airliners.net/search?aircra ... lay=detail
 
Max Q
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:51 am

Would have been the most overpowered 747’s in history!
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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Bhoy
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:08 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
amc737 wrote:
Of the 5 British Caledonian 747s, I believe 4 were GE90 powered


I'd love to see a picture of that!


https://www.airliners.net/search?aircra ... lay=detail

Those are CF6s, not GE90s...
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:12 am

Bhoy wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:

I'd love to see a picture of that!


https://www.airliners.net/search?aircra ... lay=detail

Those are CF6s, not GE90s...


LOL! I didn't read further than GE without noticing the mistake, twice. Gosh :banghead:
 
amc737
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:03 pm

Yes my mistake, shouldn't write in a rush, likewise my comment about the L1011-200s, they would not have the range for Atlanta, DFW and Houston. This makes my original point more valid, there was nothing that could replace the DC-10's, the L1011's didn't have range and were retired soon anyway, the 747's too big and I would argue the 767's too small - also most of the 767's ended up doing shorthual anyway, thus until the 777 arrived nothing could replace them in terms of range and capacity.

amc737
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:54 pm

Not so..... believe only 7 x 767;s were configured in the shorthaul layout. the rest were longhaul birds....
although they did swap interiors from time to time, and IIRC, some went off to QF.
 
amc737
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:56 am

Re: British Airways DC-10 in early 1980s?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:03 pm

British Airways had a total of 28 767's, by the mid/late 1990's all Heathrow based 767's flew short haul, 5 767's where based at Gatwick which did fly long haul mainly to the USA, 3 of these routes had been previously flown by US Air 767's in BA colours. British Airways Regional also had G-BNWH which flew Manchester to JFK. The other 22 flew short haul out of Heathrow. In 2000 Qantas got 7 of these short haul 767s leaving 21 767's. The number of short haul 767's decreased over the years with them returning to Heathrow long haul routes but it was only in 2000's that there where more long haul 767's then short haul ones with 14 flying long haul and 7 which flew short haul. Of these 7 only G-BNWX had ever been in a long haul config.

amc737

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