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IWMBH
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:14 pm

I think Easyjet is definitely worth saving. But if the UK government has to save all the airlines registered in the UK, it will take a significantly amount of money. I doubt if the UK want to spend that much on airlines.
 
jghealey
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:09 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Stelios is really hurting the company right now by behaving like a spoilt child. He didn't mind how company was run while he was taking millions in dividends. He really needs to sell up or shut up.

Well said, it's ridiculous. The dividend he took last month of £60m is pretty disgraceful - especially now that he's claiming they'll be bust by August. I know that it was too late to stop the payment, but still, he could have chosen not to accept it. I guess he's using it as negotiating leverage. Let's hope their management stays cool and doesn't give into his demands.
 
skipness1E
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:18 pm

jghealey wrote:
f4f3a wrote:
Stelios is really hurting the company right now by behaving like a spoilt child. He didn't mind how company was run while he was taking millions in dividends. He really needs to sell up or shut up.

Well said, it's ridiculous. The dividend he took last month of £60m is pretty disgraceful - especially now that he's claiming they'll be bust by August. I know that it was too late to stop the payment, but still, he could have chosen not to accept it. I guess he's using it as negotiating leverage. Let's hope their management stays cool and doesn't give into his demands.

Why was it disgraceful? Businesses are meant to be run to make their owners money? Dividends being paid is a good thing unless you think in tshirt slogans!

The trading environment changed very quickly but contract law is still contract law. As for going bust, well EZY is bigger ex UK to Europe than BA ever was, they’re too big to fail unlike Monarch, flybe or Thomas Cook.
 
jghealey
Posts: 243
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:27 pm

skipness1E wrote:
jghealey wrote:
f4f3a wrote:
Stelios is really hurting the company right now by behaving like a spoilt child. He didn't mind how company was run while he was taking millions in dividends. He really needs to sell up or shut up.

Well said, it's ridiculous. The dividend he took last month of £60m is pretty disgraceful - especially now that he's claiming they'll be bust by August. I know that it was too late to stop the payment, but still, he could have chosen not to accept it. I guess he's using it as negotiating leverage. Let's hope their management stays cool and doesn't give into his demands.

Why was it disgraceful? Businesses are meant to be run to make their owners money? Dividends being paid is a good thing unless you think in tshirt slogans!

The trading environment changed very quickly but contract law is still contract law. As for going bust, well EZY is bigger ex UK to Europe than BA ever was, they’re too big to fail unlike Monarch, flybe or Thomas Cook.

Fair enough. It just seems like maybe it's not the right thing to do if he's genuinely concerned about their insolvency. But contract law is contract law like you say, I guess.

I never said it was likely that they would fail, only that Stelios was claiming that they would. Losing easyJet would be devastating for the whole of Europe - routes lost, competition lost and most importantly (for governments) jobs lost; so as you say it's unlikely that governments wouldn't step in to help (even if the UK government doesn't).
 
MIflyer12
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:29 pm

jghealey wrote:
f4f3a wrote:
Stelios is really hurting the company right now by behaving like a spoilt child. He didn't mind how company was run while he was taking millions in dividends. He really needs to sell up or shut up.

Well said, it's ridiculous. The dividend he took last month of £60m is pretty disgraceful - especially now that he's claiming they'll be bust by August. I know that it was too late to stop the payment, but still, he could have chosen not to accept it. I guess he's using it as negotiating leverage. Let's hope their management stays cool and doesn't give into his demands.


Skipness put it well but I'm going to add to his remarks.

Dividends are paid by company structure (different classes of shares, perhaps) on ex-dividend dates. If the company didn't want to pay a dividend it could have suspended all dividend payments equally.

Companies are run for the benefit of their owners -- not their management team, not their employees. (Let employees buy shares and form an ESOP if they want - that sure worked swimmingly for United, didn't it!)

If Stelios gets enough shareholders to agree to his point of view a great fraction of the exec team will be looking for new jobs.
 
Pendennis
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:55 pm

The trouble is that Stelios is like a spoilt child, he wanted to expand the airline but didn't want to or couldn't invest his own money so he did a stock market floatation. What he couldn't accept is that such an action diluted his own and family's shareholding to the extent that he didn't have overall control; he wanted to have his cake and eat it. The problem for the management is that the brand name is owned by Stelios' easyGroup and easyJet pay him to use it; if it really gets nasty he could withdraw the right to use the name as he has done in the past.

I should add that I find easyJet very user friendly and find them much more pleasurable to fly with than MOL's offering. Whether they're too big to fail, I'm not so sure but I would be very disappointed if they were to disappear.
 
f4f3a
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:22 pm

Just announced to the city gov to loan easyJet 600m . Takes cash reserve to 2.3 BN from start of April . I assume loans to airlines will be based on how much assets they have . Not sure if virgin is getting the same ?
 
Jetport
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:18 pm

I think Stelios is correct. Unless it is cheaper to take the new A32X's and retire their older ones, they should cancel the order now. Why would you take delivery of lots of new planes when you already have probably 100 excess jets? EasyJet is a ULCC, almost all of their customers are discretionary travelers. It will be at least a year or two before EasyJet regains their current passenger volume. Stop throwing good money after bad and cancel the Airbus order now.
 
FCAFLYBOY
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:34 am

So now Stelios is threatening to sue the Execs at EasyJet if “they spend a penny” on a £4.5bn order for new aircraft....

https://news.sky.com/story/easyjet-foun ... s-11970245
 
strfyr51
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:03 am

SimProgrammer wrote:
VS11 wrote:
Sorry, this is a ridiculous argument. If you are against competition, not sure I can add anything. Are you saying there should be only company in any given industry? One supermarket?


Of course not. I'm all for competition. It stimulates innovation.

The last 30 years VS has been BA bashing. Last month I was at LHR T5 departures, I saw a big advertisement for VS.

I don't see AF, LH or IB getting this level of treatment from a competitor, let alone paint their aircraft liveries with digs at BA.

well? VS has di=one all of this to themselves.
Which other CEO's went before the US Congress and railed about owning and running a US based domestic airline? what?
Did he believe they were going to change the Law just for HIM? He must have lost his Mind!! If they turned down Jurgen Weber of LH when United was in Bankruptcy?
And he was Highly respected? Branson? who's only claim to fame was Virgin Records? Was going to change their mind? The Owner of the Fox network had to apply for US citizenship to OWN FOX television network. And Murdock? whether you like him or Not? did what it took to become a citizen. That's the way it works! Delta owns 49% of VS and Branson can buy a portion of Delta as well. But they cannot OWN Delta!
 
Toinou
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:28 am

Jetport wrote:
EasyJet is a ULCC, almost all of their customers are discretionary travelers.

Are they any number on that? I am genuinely interested to figure this out.
I know the built their success on that kind of travel but on the other hand I also know many people travelling for work and using easyjet.

That said, I would tend to think that business travel will also suffer a lot in the years to come. Many people say that business travel will grow again first, I think it is possible but it may not be so simple.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:00 am

Toinou wrote:
That said, I would tend to think that business travel will also suffer a lot in the years to come. Many people say that business travel will grow again first, I think it is possible but it may not be so simple.


Leisure will definitely take time to recover, especially if people have been furloughed/made permanently redundant meaning less disposable income or if their usual travel destination still in lockdown or they're weary of travelling at all. As for business, I foresee a permanent change to ways of working for some because the current lockdown could also be seen as a trial for moving towards working from home full-time or at least reducing the amount of time working from an office. That said, I wouldn't underestimate the importance of face-to-face meetings when doing business and there will always be a need for some travel.
 
Jomar777
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:08 am

f4f3a wrote:
Stelios is really hurting the company right now by behaving like a spoilt child. He didn't mind how company was run while he was taking millions in dividends. He really needs to sell up or shut up.


He always minded and fought with the actual Board. And has just trousered 60m... No changes here.

The fact is that Easyjet's situation is much more complicated than Virgin. Not only they are exposed due to COVID19, but they have this fight between Stelios and the Board. The Airbus cancellation is just one more dispute (although a big one...). Now that cash is short, he (Stelios) made sure to take his earnings (to hurt their cash position even more) towards pressing the Board to eat humble pie and cancel the Airbus order.

I do not get him: if he wanted so much to continue to influence the run of the airline, why set down and let a Board of Directors in???

Prior to COVID19, Easyjet was fine - why not let it be?

I presume the UK Government will not bail Easyjet out until the shareholders chip in so it is a way for him (Stelios) to push Easyjet and bend it to his will.
 
sandyb123
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:30 am

Jomar777 wrote:
f4f3a wrote:
Stelios is really hurting the company right now by behaving like a spoilt child. He didn't mind how company was run while he was taking millions in dividends. He really needs to sell up or shut up.


He always minded and fought with the actual Board. And has just trousered 60m... No changes here.

The fact is that Easyjet's situation is much more complicated than Virgin. Not only they are exposed due to COVID19, but they have this fight between Stelios and the Board. The Airbus cancellation is just one more dispute (although a big one...). Now that cash is short, he (Stelios) made sure to take his earnings (to hurt their cash position even more) towards pressing the Board to eat humble pie and cancel the Airbus order.

I do not get him: if he wanted so much to continue to influence the run of the airline, why set down and let a Board of Directors in???

Prior to COVID19, Easyjet was fine - why not let it be?

I presume the UK Government will not bail Easyjet out until the shareholders chip in so it is a way for him (Stelios) to push Easyjet and bend it to his will.


100%

Easyjet & Stelios
Stelios has actually been a constant thorn in the side of the board for years, mostly because he feels he (and other shareholders) have not been given enough of a dividend and he quit the board in a spat about expansion (which would have reduced his personal income opportunities) which backfired as it rendered him with little control. The £60m is a drop in the ocean, relatively.

I had read an analysis a few years back that U2 had even considered rebranding to release its ties with the Easygroup and its affiliated other brands (hotel, coffee etc). But I can't find that now.

Stelios is known as being a bit of a bull in a china shop. He has a reputation for being a bully and has been involved in many legal battles over the years. Put up any signage on your shopfront that says 'Easy' or has anything resembling a stylised lettering or colour and expect a visit from his lawyers. He has very deep pockets (inherited and earned) and will protect his position where he can.

Personally I believe that the board has been very wise over the years in terms of the expansion and product. It still has the LCC approach, but is nicer than the competition and flies almost everywhere in Europe you want to go. If it hadn't invested in planes and routes, it would have become a Flybe or would have been bought out by a larger group. Either way we wouldn't see those orange planes plying the skies over Europe today*.

Virgin & SRB
Virgin is something of a different animal. Many of the Virgin businesses are actually just others operating with a brand license. Virgin Media (UK) is actually just what was Telewest, Virgin Trains was mostly Stagecoach owned, it was basically a brand license in the same way of Easygroup.

But, Virgin Atlantic is the business that kicked it all off (ok, and Virgin Records) and remains close to SRBs heart. He too has stepped down and of course Delta owns a chunk too. But it's reputation for being a disruptor in the 80's and 90's has lost its edge as the competition have caught up or surpassed what Virgin is.

If Virgin hadn't done the deal with Delta then it could have potentially gone pop a few years ago. As has been the case in the long haul aviation business, consolidate to survive and that's what happened here.

In summary
It's going to be a rough ride for aviation as we come through Corona. International leisure travel is going to have its worst summer ever, globally. Few airlines are going to be immune from that. Business travel has had a big wake up call. Look at the uptake of Zoom / Skype etc etc. Business owners have been forced to look to alternatives to flying people around the globe for meetings and the cost and health savings will change business.

In both SRBs and SHLs cases these guys are controlling, rich and have little to loose.

Sandyb123

* today not meaning actual today as the entire fleet is currently corona grounded
Member of the mile high club
 
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cv990Coronado
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:01 am

Sandyb123 an excellent summarisation. One point, not mentioned which I think will be relevant for long-haul leisure is the cross-subsidisation from the premium cabins. If long-haul business travel is reduced which seems to me to be a given this will probably result in higher economy fares. Unless of course demand is so bad that the carriers will take anything yield-wise.
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GDB
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:04 am

The only thing VS ever really 'innovated' was Branson's own BS back story.
While the optics of Stelios and the shares are bad, it's nothing to being a serial tax dodger on a private island who sued the NHS. That, fair or not, is increasingly the public perception of him. Plus his long delayed, sometimes lethal, half-arsed, already obsolete 'rocket'.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:33 am

FCAFLYBOY wrote:
So now Stelios is threatening to sue the Execs at EasyJet if “they spend a penny” on a £4.5bn order for new aircraft....

https://news.sky.com/story/easyjet-foun ... s-11970245


This article reads like Stelios thinks Airbus have forced EasyJet to order new planes and 'Oh my gosh, how dare they !'.

Call me knaive, but when I order goods, I fully expect to pay for them. If times are tough, I renegotiate. What I don't do is go off on a rant like a spoiled brat just because it looks like my investment may be comprised for a while. Claiming fleet renewal is basically Airbus robbing British taxpayer money from under our noses or that multi billion pound cheque payments to Airbus are somehow like some sort of extortion racket, are a tad embarrassing if not totally transparent in nature. It seems certain airline 'big guys' have lost the plot in terms of what COVID-19 is actually all about, and should maybe just stay far away on their fantasy islands and learn a little humility.
 
f4f3a
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:31 am

I did think a few years ago when there was the last big disagreement with stelios they didn't sort this out then . He threatened to remove the easy brand in s tantrum back then . It would have been a short term pain but would have achieved freedom from him .
easyJet if I remember rightly have the ability to shrink fleet anyway without cancelling orders. It was laid out a few years ago when the last big order came
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:35 am

Toinou wrote:
Jetport wrote:
EasyJet is a ULCC, almost all of their customers are discretionary travelers.

Are they any number on that? I am genuinely interested to figure this out.
I know the built their success on that kind of travel but on the other hand I also know many people travelling for work and using easyjet.

That said, I would tend to think that business travel will also suffer a lot in the years to come. Many people say that business travel will grow again first, I think it is possible but it may not be so simple.


I can't disagree more. Tons of people fly easyJet for business trips in Europe.
 
Blerg
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:48 am

For years and years these rich, well-established Western airlines have attacked and defeated weaker, overburdened airlines in eastern Europe and the Middle East. They insisted they should be shut down because they are inefficient and can't handle all this. In my opinion, all western airlines that are seeking help today but have advocated against others getting it should be shut down.
 
Geoff1947
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:23 pm

Jetport wrote:
I think Stelios is correct. Unless it is cheaper to take the new A32X's and retire their older ones, they should cancel the order now. Why would you take delivery of lots of new planes when you already have probably 100 excess jets? EasyJet is a ULCC, almost all of their customers are discretionary travelers. It will be at least a year or two before EasyJet regains their current passenger volume. Stop throwing good money after bad and cancel the Airbus order now.


All air travel is discretionary although some people try to claim it is essential. This is not an ULCC issue it applies to all airlines. The issue here is Stelios, easyJet is fine.

Geoff
 
VSMUT
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:35 pm

Blerg wrote:
For years and years these rich, well-established Western airlines have attacked and defeated weaker, overburdened airlines in eastern Europe and the Middle East. They insisted they should be shut down because they are inefficient and can't handle all this. In my opinion, all western airlines that are seeking help today but have advocated against others getting it should be shut down.


I almost coughed out into the railway car when I read this comment! Wizz Air is doing victory laps further and further into Western Europe. Blue Air is strong to and from Romania. Air Baltic is growing ever bigger with its A220 fleet, and now covers 3 Baltic states and does ACMI services for Lufthansa. The Travel Service/SmartWings/CSA conglomeration is not to be taken lightly. LOT is expanding and the western facing off pretty succesfully against the western incumbents on the long haul market.

What do you mean, Eastern Europe can't get a break from western European airlines?
 
ewt340
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:51 pm

As a Conservative, I don't believe in bailout in ANY scenarios, including pandemic or natural disasters.

I'll vote for them to go Bust. We got Ryanair, Wizzair or whatever left to fill in the vacuum. No tax of mine gonna save these big business.
 
f4f3a
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:25 pm

People don't mind millions of tax money funding railways banks etc. Why not airlines . No one thinks the gov paying people's wages for the short term is a bad thing . Giving liquidity to profitable companies so they can get through unprecedented waters is fine. Every major airline based in the UK is getting gov help in one form or another . Perhaps some companies in order to get loans should be made leaner as a precondition of the loan. The financials for help should be in such a way as the tax payer can get it back . People talk about Vs not working then it should be re organised in order for it to work. If company wants the loan then they should slim expenditure and costs etc. However I would say easy seems to be a working model that should be sound to get money back
 
jghealey
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:40 pm

Blerg wrote:
For years and years these rich, well-established Western airlines have attacked and defeated weaker, overburdened airlines in eastern Europe and the Middle East. They insisted they should be shut down because they are inefficient and can't handle all this. In my opinion, all western airlines that are seeking help today but have advocated against others getting it should be shut down.

Care to give an example of easyJet saying such an airline should be shut down? Regardless, easyJet supports thousands of jobs and brings tourism and economic benefit so surely they are a far more useful asset to the country than a 'weaker, overburderned airline' as you appear to suggest? This makes them all the more likely to be worthy recipients of government support, imo.
 
Bongodog49
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:58 pm

In the 10 years since he quit the board disagreeing with the expansion programme, both profits and dividends have increased 5 fold. Yet he still says he knows better than the airlines existing management.
Yes he had a great idea with Easyjet, his other ventures under the "Easy" label haven't exactly been brilliant though. Needs to just sit down count his moneyand be happy with the money others have earnt him over the past decade.

He seems to think they can just walk away from theAirbus order, the only way i can see that being posisble is if Easyjet folds, which would of course mean the loss of his entire investment.
Their present commitment is to take just over 100 aircraft in the next 4 years, with Airbus temporarily seeing around a 50% drop in production the present financial commitment to Airbus is a fraction of his claims. He's stirring the pot by using the entire order value.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:44 pm

We cannot have companies that are solely responsible to shareholders and no other stakeholders then using employee layoffs as a hostage to extract money from a government to save them. If they are only responsible to shareholders, only shareholders are responsible for their continued existence.
 
ewt340
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:40 pm

f4f3a wrote:
People don't mind millions of tax money funding railways banks etc. Why not airlines . No one thinks the gov paying people's wages for the short term is a bad thing . Giving liquidity to profitable companies so they can get through unprecedented waters is fine. Every major airline based in the UK is getting gov help in one form or another . Perhaps some companies in order to get loans should be made leaner as a precondition of the loan. The financials for help should be in such a way as the tax payer can get it back . People talk about Vs not working then it should be re organised in order for it to work. If company wants the loan then they should slim expenditure and costs etc. However I would say easy seems to be a working model that should be sound to get money back


Actually most people I talked to in real life opposes such funding for banks or railways. Never found anyone who support it from any political spectrum, well apart from the owner and workers who benefited from those funding.

While aviation industry is the one who got the most beating out of the pandemic, they are not the only one. Many smaller and medium companies around the world goes bust from every different industries with 0 help from the government. Why should they be the one to get it. It's not like other industries didn't fire tens of millions of workers as well.

There is literally 0 reason for bailout. The only bailout I would probably approve would go to helping shipping companies, factories that produce daily essentials and farmers+distributors. Other than that it would be illogical to waste soo much tax money on them.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:57 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Easyjet have messed up by paying out a recent dividend to their shareholders in the last two weeks. Approximately £175 million.


A good business leader knows how to privatize his profits and socialize his losses.


Truer words have not been spoken!
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
sandyb123
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:44 pm

cv990Coronado wrote:
Sandyb123 an excellent summarisation. One point, not mentioned which I think will be relevant for long-haul leisure is the cross-subsidisation from the premium cabins. If long-haul business travel is reduced which seems to me to be a given this will probably result in higher economy fares. Unless of course demand is so bad that the carriers will take anything yield-wise.


Thank you. And your right about the trickle down of travel from premium cabins. Although I think that is mostly going to be because of corporate budgets being tightened.

One of my best friends runs a private jet brokerage. I was speaking to him today and he is freaking out because he is fearing the same effect.

But, I actually think that the premium travelers will be the least hurt by all of this. It’s the bank manager who was nipping down to London for an unnecessary meeting that will disappear (I was that banker before a set up my tourism company).

Sandyb123
Member of the mile high club
 
IrishLessor
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:39 am

Geoff1947 wrote:
Jetport wrote:
I think Stelios is correct. Unless it is cheaper to take the new A32X's and retire their older ones, they should cancel the order now. Why would you take delivery of lots of new planes when you already have probably 100 excess jets? EasyJet is a ULCC, almost all of their customers are discretionary travelers. It will be at least a year or two before EasyJet regains their current passenger volume. Stop throwing good money after bad and cancel the Airbus order now.


All air travel is discretionary although some people try to claim it is essential. This is not an ULCC issue it applies to all airlines. The issue here is Stelios, easyJet is fine.

Geoff


GEOFF1947,
Agreed.
easyJet have typically in excess of 20% business travellers, and they have deals in place with corporates and SMEs.
These clients are characterised as needing flexible tickets and tend to buy late based on business need, hence pay a premium.

ULCC. easyJet is a value carrier, not ULCC, there has been plenty of commentary and analysis showing that Wizz is the truest ULCC around, Ryanair while low cost has launched Buzz as a vehicle to drive costs down to remain on a competitive footing to Wizz. Not suggesting Ryanair can't compete and win against Wizz, they have deep pockets, but there is a cost base gap.

Furthermore, in the main air travel is essential especially for sizeable segments like VFR. I believe easyJet in many markets is the preference above say Ryanair, at least this
Is what I hear when traveling easyJet, which I do frequently. In the UK in particular easyJet are larger at many airports over Ryanair where the two have had protracted competition and overlap, e.g. GLA, EDI, BRS, LPL.

In relation to easyJet, they need to cancel orders if that preserves vital cash. Airbus will have to look to the long term and be flexible. Otherwise, the alternative will be more severe.

With a likely cancellation of airline orders, will a saviour come like Ryanair post 9/11? Would Ryanair truly embrace Airbus, if the price was right, maybe?

Final thought; consolidation. Will easyJet somehow appear in the IAG family, where I believe it's destiny lies? Or will it join forces with Wizz Air and create something bigger and stronger? I believe the easyJet brand will be around.
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:55 am

Around the time of the negotiation around the Brand Licence, there was a plan to drop the name - which has the working title of ‘OrangeJet’. It would also be interesting if they still have some of the IP from Go - if the situation with Stelios turned sour and they ditched the licence (which they can do later in the year at a charge...), be interesting what options they have.
 
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vhtje
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Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:34 am

If they are forced rebrand as part of break with Stellios, euroJet has a nice ring to it.

They could even launch it with a bunch of flights for 1€.

I can even see the tagline ‘Booking with euroJet is easy....’
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2837
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:07 am

LuxuryTravelled wrote:
Around the time of the negotiation around the Brand Licence, there was a plan to drop the name - which has the working title of ‘OrangeJet’. It would also be interesting if they still have some of the IP from Go - if the situation with Stelios turned sour and they ditched the licence (which they can do later in the year at a charge...), be interesting what options they have.


They sold the rights to Go. I think to an on-line travel agent. The new livery was as a result of easyGroup insisting that the words easyJet be in white on an orange background, that particular spat with Stelios. I assume the “project orangeJet” and new livery came from that work. For what it’s worth I’m not sure the rebrand would have been hugely successful even if a large fortune were spent. I think easyGroup even won the right to use that shade of orange in many applications.
 
Arion640
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:44 pm

vhtje wrote:
If they are forced rebrand as part of break with Stellios, euroJet has a nice ring to it.

They could even launch it with a bunch of flights for 1€.

I can even see the tagline ‘Booking with euroJet is easy....’


Doubt it.

Stelios owns (I think) 49% of the airline so would lose out if easyjet dropped such a strong brand. He also agains money from licensing the easy brand to them so it’s in his interest to keep the easy branding.
 
SimProgrammer
Topic Author
Posts: 202
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:04 pm

vhtje wrote:
If they are forced rebrand as part of break with Stellios, euroJet has a nice ring to it.

They could even launch it with a bunch of flights for 1€.

I can even see the tagline ‘Booking with euroJet is easy....’


euroJet. I like the name!

Anyone up for crowdfunding an order for a single type of 500 Airbus A220 300's to start it up?

Maybe expand into asiaJet? :lol:
Drive a bus, an Airbus, easier than a London bus!
 
greg85
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:45 am

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:25 pm

Arion640 wrote:
vhtje wrote:
If they are forced rebrand as part of break with Stellios, euroJet has a nice ring to it.

They could even launch it with a bunch of flights for 1€.

I can even see the tagline ‘Booking with euroJet is easy....’


Doubt it.

Stelios owns (I think) 49% of the airline so would lose out if easyjet dropped such a strong brand. He also agains money from licensing the easy brand to them so it’s in his interest to keep the easy branding.



30 seconds on google will tell you that Stelios has no where near 49%
 
ewt340
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:52 pm

SimProgrammer wrote:
vhtje wrote:
If they are forced rebrand as part of break with Stellios, euroJet has a nice ring to it.

They could even launch it with a bunch of flights for 1€.

I can even see the tagline ‘Booking with euroJet is easy....’


euroJet. I like the name!

Anyone up for crowdfunding an order for a single type of 500 Airbus A220 300's to start it up?

Maybe expand into asiaJet? :lol:


jokes aside, why hasn't anyone created an airline called EuroJet in real life. It's like the most logical names for airlines based in Europe.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3162
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:43 pm

greg85 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
vhtje wrote:
If they are forced rebrand as part of break with Stellios, euroJet has a nice ring to it.

They could even launch it with a bunch of flights for 1€.

I can even see the tagline ‘Booking with euroJet is easy....’


Doubt it.

Stelios owns (I think) 49% of the airline so would lose out if easyjet dropped such a strong brand. He also agains money from licensing the easy brand to them so it’s in his interest to keep the easy branding.



30 seconds on google will tell you that Stelios has no where near 49%


34% then. Again, i said I think, indicating i wasn’t quite sure.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8777
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:49 pm

LONDON (Reuters) - British airline easyJet (EZJ.L) on Thursday said it would defer the delivery of 24 Airbus (AIR.PA) jets and hold a shareholder meeting after the airline’s founder Stelios Haji-Ioannou stepped up a disagreement over the airline’s expansion plans.

The airline said it would defer the delivery of 10 aircraft deliveries in the 2020 financial year, 12 aircraft deliveries in 2021 and 2 aircraft deliveries in 2022.
Exact dates for future deliveries of the deferred aircraft were still to be agreed, easyJet said.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 1R2PV?il=0

That's a long way from a cancellation of 107.
 
ShamrockBoi330
Posts: 367
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:11 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
LONDON (Reuters) - British airline easyJet (EZJ.L) on Thursday said it would defer the delivery of 24 Airbus (AIR.PA) jets and hold a shareholder meeting after the airline’s founder Stelios Haji-Ioannou stepped up a disagreement over the airline’s expansion plans.

The airline said it would defer the delivery of 10 aircraft deliveries in the 2020 financial year, 12 aircraft deliveries in 2021 and 2 aircraft deliveries in 2022.
Exact dates for future deliveries of the deferred aircraft were still to be agreed, easyJet said.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 1R2PV?il=0

That's a long way from a cancellation of 107.


Did anyone ever really think they'd be foolish enough to cancel 107 orders? kick the can down the road was always on the cards and makes much more sense, Stelios is just being greedy wanting more.
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1796
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:17 pm

ewt340 wrote:
jokes aside, why hasn't anyone created an airline called EuroJet in real life. It's like the most logical names for airlines based in Europe.


....someone did once way back in the early noughties. Very short-lived indeed however.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurojet_Airlines
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
smartplane
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:41 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
LONDON (Reuters) - British airline easyJet (EZJ.L) on Thursday said it would defer the delivery of 24 Airbus (AIR.PA) jets and hold a shareholder meeting after the airline’s founder Stelios Haji-Ioannou stepped up a disagreement over the airline’s expansion plans.

The airline said it would defer the delivery of 10 aircraft deliveries in the 2020 financial year, 12 aircraft deliveries in 2021 and 2 aircraft deliveries in 2022.
Exact dates for future deliveries of the deferred aircraft were still to be agreed, easyJet said.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 1R2PV?il=0

That's a long way from a cancellation of 107.

Out to 2022 and beyond, the balance (107-22=85) of the order will all be conditional, at the very least subject to finance, on terms agreeable to the buyer.

All customers will, after surviving, want to walk the tightrope, repudiating avoidable acquisitions, and re-ordering if the need still exists, at a lower unit price, while still preserving retrospective credits relating to the original purchase. In doing this, some will fall out of love with A or B - some maybe even with both.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4432
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:58 pm

jghealey wrote:
Blerg wrote:
For years and years these rich, well-established Western airlines have attacked and defeated weaker, overburdened airlines in eastern Europe and the Middle East. They insisted they should be shut down because they are inefficient and can't handle all this. In my opinion, all western airlines that are seeking help today but have advocated against others getting it should be shut down.

Care to give an example of easyJet saying such an airline should be shut down? Regardless, easyJet supports thousands of jobs and brings tourism and economic benefit so surely they are a far more useful asset to the country than a 'weaker, overburderned airline' as you appear to suggest? This makes them all the more likely to be worthy recipients of government support, imo.


Pretty much any market east of Germany, very easy to find so no need to list them all here. Those same airlines also support tourism, jobs and so on yet the EU insisted no financial support be given. easyJet should be shut down if it can't weather the storm, regardless of how many people end up losing their jobs. After all that's the treatment we got in the east and not just in the aviation sector.
 
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vhtje
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:07 am

Arion640 wrote:
vhtje wrote:
If they are forced rebrand as part of break with Stellios, euroJet has a nice ring to it.

They could even launch it with a bunch of flights for 1€.

I can even see the tagline ‘Booking with euroJet is easy....’


Doubt it.

Stelios owns (I think) 49% of the airline so would lose out if easyjet dropped such a strong brand. He also agains money from licensing the easy brand to them so it’s in his interest to keep the easy branding.


You’re not really paying attention to this thread, are you? Earlier posts have informed us that Stellios owns less than that, and he removed himself from the board; and that the board has actively investigated changing the name to reduce the Influence of Stellios even further. My post was in response to that thread.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3162
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:38 am

vhtje wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
vhtje wrote:
If they are forced rebrand as part of break with Stellios, euroJet has a nice ring to it.

They could even launch it with a bunch of flights for 1€.

I can even see the tagline ‘Booking with euroJet is easy....’


Doubt it.

Stelios owns (I think) 49% of the airline so would lose out if easyjet dropped such a strong brand. He also agains money from licensing the easy brand to them so it’s in his interest to keep the easy branding.


You’re not really paying attention to this thread, are you? Earlier posts have informed us that Stellios owns less than that, and he removed himself from the board; and that the board has actively investigated changing the name to reduce the Influence of Stellios even further. My post was in response to that thread.


Doesn’t change the point that it’s fully in his interest to retain the brand.
 
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vhtje
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:56 am

Arion640 wrote:
Doesn’t change the point that it’s fully in his interest to retain the brand.


Well, yes, of course it is, but that point is so obvious, it barely needs mentioning, right? The whole thread was about what the board has been investigating: dropping the easy- branding. If they did, they would no longer have to pay royalties to the easy Group. He is no longer the majority shareholder of U2 and he removed himself from the board, so the board could make that decision, and Stellios would have little power to stop it.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3162
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:15 am

vhtje wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Doesn’t change the point that it’s fully in his interest to retain the brand.


Well, yes, of course it is, but that point is so obvious, it barely needs mentioning, right? The whole thread was about what the board has been investigating: dropping the easy- branding. If they did, they would no longer have to pay royalties to the easy Group. He is no longer the majority shareholder of U2 and he removed himself from the board, so the board could make that decision, and Stellios would have little power to stop it.


Ahh okay.

So they’d no longer have to pay royalties to the easy group if they dropped the easy brand? Well, yes, of course it is, but that point is so obvious, it barley needs mentioning, right?

They’d also kill one of europes strongest brands.
 
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vhtje
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Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:32 pm

Arion640 wrote:
vhtje wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Doesn’t change the point that it’s fully in his interest to retain the brand.


Well, yes, of course it is, but that point is so obvious, it barely needs mentioning, right? The whole thread was about what the board has been investigating: dropping the easy- branding. If they did, they would no longer have to pay royalties to the easy Group. He is no longer the majority shareholder of U2 and he removed himself from the board, so the board could make that decision, and Stellios would have little power to stop it.


Ahh okay.

So they’d no longer have to pay royalties to the easy group if they dropped the easy brand? Well, yes, of course it is, but that point is so obvious, it barley needs mentioning, right?

They’d also kill one of europes strongest brands.


Well of course it would, I didn't say it wouldn't. But it appears the U2 board is heading to war with Stelios one way or another. There are ways of mitigating the loss of a strong brand; it has been done successfully before. Air Pacific -> Fiji Airways springs to mind.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: EasyJet, Bail it or bin it?

Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:38 am

vhtje wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Doesn’t change the point that it’s fully in his interest to retain the brand.


Well, yes, of course it is, but that point is so obvious, it barely needs mentioning, right? The whole thread was about what the board has been investigating: dropping the easy- branding. If they did, they would no longer have to pay royalties to the easy Group. He is no longer the majority shareholder of U2 and he removed himself from the board, so the board could make that decision, and Stellios would have little power to stop it.


Sir Stelios may not be the majority shareholder anymore, but he is still the single largest shareholder and, as we are seeing with the Airbus order, capable of kicking up a stink if they did anything he doesn't approve of. I accept he doesn't make the decisions anymore, but could theoretically get all shareholders on board with his way of thinking if the board are intent on doing something he's against and collectively block key decisions. That said, I don't know how it all works.

Personally, the idea of dropping the easy name needs to be treated with caution, especially if it's due to boardroom/shareholder politics. Although I think they would be OK, the current brand is powerful and is neither broken or tainted. Lots of costs involved too with a change of name and branding, so I'm not sure if it's a wise move to be undertaking that at the same time they're being scrutinised for buying new planes.

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