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Ellofiend
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:34 am

Surely everyone can pitch in a couple of bucks and get a bird preserved!? Our community is a couple hundred thousand strong is it not? Of course, this is trying times but we will survive, the 747...already dead. Perhaps BA will be willing to put one or two on display like the Concordes? Duxford or Smithsonian, Heatrow or Le Bourget?

"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long"
 
marcelh
Posts: 1030
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:16 am

[quote="Revelation”]
They rely on high passenger load factors and high premium demand to make them commercially viable. In short, we do not believe that these beautiful aircraft are sustainable in a very different airline industry.

More confirmation that the idea of a V shaped recovery is gone and we're stuck with a U.[/quote]

More that as long the virus is spreading uncontrollably, borders won’t open up to those places. And video conferencing has proven that you don’t have to fly for a business meeting, so premium demand won’t go back to pre-COVID levels. Add in some disruption of a hard Brexit and BA is facing a perfect storm on their most profitable routes.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, at 40+ including 747s, A380s

Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:29 am

A320GOUZO wrote:
Really sad day
I had upper deck booked LHR to CPT in November :-(


I’m happy for you! I flew exact the same route with the same aircraft and she was OLD and horribly maintained. Super old 1990’s IFE not working in many seats, my seat was broken... that was on the flight to CPT, i flew the Landor Livery 747 back to LHR and she was in an equally bad shape. Light fixture was broken that kept flashing for hours until they switched the lights off... same bad seats. What a night and day difference compared to KLM’s equally old but much better maintained 747’s.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:44 am

Ellofiend wrote:
Surely everyone can pitch in a couple of bucks and get a bird preserved!? Our community is a couple hundred thousand strong is it not? Of course, this is trying times but we will survive, the 747...already dead. Perhaps BA will be willing to put one or two on display like the Concordes? Duxford or Smithsonian, Heatrow or Le Bourget?

"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long"


Not sure why you'd display a BA 744 anywhere but the UK?
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
f4f3a
Posts: 614
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:07 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:54 am

Perhaps they should turn it into a a hotel at Heathrow or Gatwick like the one at Stockholm . That would be pretty cool
 
xjetflyer2001
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:06 am

SmithAir747 wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
SmithAir747 wrote:
BA have served DEN for years with the 747, and I have flown BA DEN-LHR often, with the 747. With what type will BA serve DEN from now on?


According to Airline Route announcement On Jun 27th BA will go to a 777-200 on the LHR-DEN route


Any idea when the DEN-LHR service will resume, or is that still up in the air?

The first chance I get, after this calms down, I'm heading back to London. Since I lived there in 2004-2007, and started making return visits there in 2016, I have made it a point to go back at least once a year to revisit my uni, my colleagues in craniofacial medical research, as well as old friends all over the UK. Once a Londoner, always a Londoner, and I have the insatiable desire to go back as much as I can (and one day, move back to the UK or even the EU permanently and finish out my life and career there). I will be glad to make my next trip back as soon as possible.

SmithAir747


Airline Route stated as of August 2nd it’ll be 5 times a week, I’m sure this is subject to change however
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2368
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:12 am

Really sad to hear about the 747 but no great surprise. Unfortunately this beauty will be hard to spot in the next year or so, let alone get on one to travel.
 
blandy62
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:47 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:24 am

UAL777UK wrote:
Really sad to hear about the 747 but no great surprise. Unfortunately this beauty will be hard to spot in the next year or so, let alone get on one to travel.


As a passenger plane, yes. You will still see them as cargo for many years to come
 
armadillomaster
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:14 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:00 am

Wonder if they'll do a farewell tour?
 
uta999
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:27 am

There's a nice spot for the BOAC** 744 on the roundabout approaching T5 at LHR. Perhaps even replace the model Emirates A380 on the M4 Spur. Better still open one to the public on the undershoot of the old runway 23. There's a nice green area there crying out for an aviation park.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Ter ... !1e1?hl=en

Google Earth

** insert your favourite here
Your computer just got better
 
concordeforever
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:51 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:36 am

uta999 wrote:
There's a nice spot for the BOAC** 744 on the roundabout approaching T5 at LHR. Perhaps even replace the model Emirates A380 on the M4 Spur. Better still open one to the public on the undershoot of the old runway 23. There's a nice green area there crying out for an aviation park.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Ter ... !1e1?hl=en

Google Earth

** insert your favourite here


They won't put one at the T5 roundabout. Apparently the excuse for not putting Concorde there when that was retired was that it couldn't take the weight. The 747 is MUCH heavier....
 
Strato2
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:50 am

This will decimate dedicated freighter sales as there are now an ample supply of nearly free feedstock for P2F conversion.
 
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777GE90
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:26 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:50 am

Very sad, the skies around Heathrow will never be the same. The 747 was the aircraft that gave me the aviation bug, ever since I stood infront of one at a Heathrow T3 gate as a kid.

It used to be a common sight to see VS 747, BA 747 and many others at LHR, that slowly faded to just BA 747 and now it'll be nothing but the odd freighter.

I already miss not seeing VS A340's.

Does anyone know if BA will do a special send off at LHR or something? I guess it's too early to ask?
Image
 
gaystudpilot
Posts: 266
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:55 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:00 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Basically BA has given up hope on travel returning to normal until 2022 at least.

That said, what are the odds that the A388 at BA returns to service? I would say about 20-25 percent at best...and then the B772 (GE ER fleet) will have to soldier on a bit longer.


The industry will be lucky if it returns to 75% of pre-2020 levels by 2024.

Agree re A388 and would not be surprised if they do not return to service.
 
ZeeZoo
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:30 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:00 am

:shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :shakehead: :crying: :crying: :crying:

Didn't even get to say goodbye, for heaven's sake. Been wanting to get down to Heathrow to see the classic/retro liveries but been putting it off. And also been thinking the 747s would still be around another 4-5 years. Tragic.

Absolutely tragic not hearing that roar again at Heathrow in a BA livery. Somehow got to catch their final flights to their boneyard. Anyone know if BA will make those departure times public?
 
bennett123
Posts: 9737
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:12 am

The BA fleet had a lot of hours on the clock, doubt that they will be converted to cargo.
 
Leej
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 10:39 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:23 am

Right - thats Monday sorted. Going to take leisurely drive to BOH and say some goodbyes. So sad...
.
 
Danhill1905
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:30 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:32 am

Leej wrote:
Right - thats Monday sorted. Going to take leisurely drive to BOH and say some goodbyes. So sad...
.


Will be a waste of a drive. I think they are all now at Cardiff with 4/5 including Negus at LHR with 3 at Kemble with engines missing.
 
concordeforever
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:51 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:42 am

None left at Bournemouth now. 14 at Cardiff, 9 at Heathrow, 5 at Teruel, and 3 at Kemble.
 
Danhill1905
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:30 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:45 am

concordeforever wrote:
None left at Bournemouth now. 14 at Cardiff, 9 at Heathrow, 5 at Teruel, and 3 at Kemble.



Wow 9 at LHR! Didn’t think it was as many as that. Forgot about the Spanish ones.
 
workhorse
Posts: 797
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:35 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:46 am

So, where does this leave us regarding remaining passenger 744s in Europe?

Who's left? Lufthansa and Vamos?
 
Leej
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 10:39 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:48 am

Oh - no! Well thanks for the heads up on that one. Maybe up to LHR then. Are they around the maintenance area or at T5?
 
concordeforever
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:51 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:58 am

All now in the maintenance area I think. The Negus was towed over from T5 a few weeks ago. Most are literally right next to the road, travel around the Eastern perimeter road from Hatton Cross to the 27R runway and you will see them.

The current situation is this :

Heathrow (9) : G-BYGF, G-CIVB (Negus), G-CIVD, G-CIVE, G-CIVH, G-CIVI, G-CIVK, G-CIVP, G-CIVY.

Cardiff (14) : G-BNLY (Landor), G-BYGA, G-BYGB, G-BYGC (BOAC), G-BYGD, G-BYGE, G-BYGG, G-CIVC, G-CIVF, G-CIVO, G-CIVU, G-CIVV, G-CIVW, G-CIVZ

Teruel (5) : G-CIVA, G-CIVR, G-CIVS, G-CIVT, G-CIVX

Kemble (3) : G-CIVJ, G-CIVL, G-CIVN
 
Leej
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 10:39 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:22 am

concordeforever wrote:
All now in the maintenance area I think. The Negus was towed over from T5 a few weeks ago. Most are literally right next to the road, travel around the Eastern perimeter road from Hatton Cross to the 27R runway and you will see them.

The current situation is this :

Heathrow (9) : G-BYGF, G-CIVB (Negus), G-CIVD, G-CIVE, G-CIVH, G-CIVI, G-CIVK, G-CIVP, G-CIVY.

Cardiff (14) : G-BNLY (Landor), G-BYGA, G-BYGB, G-BYGC (BOAC), G-BYGD, G-BYGE, G-BYGG, G-CIVC, G-CIVF, G-CIVO, G-CIVU, G-CIVV, G-CIVW, G-CIVZ

Teruel (5) : G-CIVA, G-CIVR, G-CIVS, G-CIVT, G-CIVX

Kemble (3) : G-CIVJ, G-CIVL, G-CIVN


Wonderful, thanks for the info!
 
Danhill1905
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:30 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:26 am

Just had official confirmation from the BA Media Team. Did screenshot the email, but can’t work out how to add the pic to the post so unable to attach unfortunately.
 
Eurowingsa320
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:27 am

Any ideas when we will see the one world bill board titles on another ba plane?, I’m pretty sure there going to be on the 77w fleet.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2717
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:54 am

Eurowingsa320 wrote:
Any ideas when we will see the one world bill board titles on another ba plane?, I’m pretty sure there going to be on the 77w fleet.


Could be the 77Ws which are due to be delivered later in the year. I belive it is one is September, October, November and December. That said, I doubt oneworld will be too strict on their airlines about painting in the livery.
 
shankly
Posts: 1400
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:02 am

Was on UKFO repatriation flight CPT-LHR on 27th May. Looks like my ride on G-CIVO was the last of a relationship flying on BA's 747 fleet going back to 1978, when I flew LHR-BDA in -136, G-AWNH

G-AWNH, WNL, BDXD, DXG, BNLG (x4), NLL, NLN, NLW, NLZ, CIVA (x4), IVB, IVC (x2), IVD (x2), IVE (x2), IVG, IVJ (x2), IVK, IVM, IVN (x3), IVO (x3), IVP, IVT and IVW

Hundreds of thousands of safe airmiles, including the delights of Junior Jet Club, cockpit visits, 64K, 52B, an oxygen mask deployment over the darkness of Africa, sunsets and sunrises, a purposeful ride through rough air and always the assurance of those four RB211's chopping their way through the cold thin air (-136's excepted)
L1011 - P F M
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:03 am

workhorse wrote:
Who's left? Lufthansa and Vamos?

LH's are all parked, sort of in reserve just in case demand picks up suddenly. They're mostly using the A333, A359 and 748, with a couple of A343 as well. There's a chance that Lufthansa will retire the 744 too, especially with the 779 coming soon.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7356
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:06 am

Very sad way to have the 747 end their flying at British Airways, after Pan AM BA was the second airline so closely associated with the Jumbo. Hoping a couple will be preserved at the Smithsonian, Museum of Flight, Duxford or other UK Aviation museums.

AM so glad that in the last few years I managed to fly on two BA 744 from the UK to the USA plus last August from Sydney to Tokyo Haneda on Qantas.
 
bennett123
Posts: 9737
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:21 am

G-BNLY CWL 121,644 22/01/2020 Landor
G-BYGA CWL 88,058 18/10/2019
G-BYGB CWL 87,514 19/06/2019
G-BYGC CWL 87,995 17/06/2019 Speedbird
G-BYGD CWL 88,016 24/09/2019
G-BYGE CWL 87,128 28/11/2019
G-BYGF LHR 90,260 07/02/2020
G-BYGG CWL 89,484 27/02/2020
G-CIVA T 124,765 27/02/2020
G-CIVB LHR 117,600 22/01/2020 Negus
G-CIVC CWL 120,507 30/01/2020
G-CIVD LHR 112,344 11/07/2019 May-20
G-CIVE LHR 113,956 23/07/2019
G-CIVF CWL 99,495 04/09/2019
G-CIVH LHR 101,976 26/03/2020 Jun-20
G-CIVI LHR 96,340 10/04/2019 Oct-20
G-CIVJ Kemble 104,244 14/08/2019 Jun-20 15/04/2020
G-CIVK LHR 103,730 14/08/2019 Jan-21
G-CIVL Kemble 104,902 15/10/2019 Nov-20 14/04/2020
G-CIVM DGX 96,849 20/05/2019
G-CIVN Kemble 103,827 04/09/2019 Feb-21 16/04/2020
G-CIVO CWL 94,914 19/09/2019
G-CIVP LHR 102,490 22/01/2020
G-CIVR T 91,857 22/01/2020
G-CIVS T 93,702 11/02/2020
G-CIVT T 101,110 30/10/2019
G-CIVU CWL 100,207 27/02/2020
G-CIVV CWL 93,264 16/03/2020
G-CIVW CWL 90,530 19/03/2020
G-CIVX T 89,795 11/07/2019
G-CIVY LHR 87,337 11/07/2019
G-CIVZ CWL 88,961 16/08/2019

I see little likelihood of any of them flying again.

Conversion to cargo is theoretically possible, but most have a lot of hours on the clock.

Furthermore, Kemble, St Athan and Tereul are normally the end of the road.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1802
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:23 am

Strato2 wrote:
This will decimate dedicated freighter sales as there are now an ample supply of nearly free feedstock for P2F conversion.

Not for 744BCF which is basically dead already.

Michael
 
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metalinyoni
Posts: 311
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:52 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:37 am

It's a sad day indeed. I remember the sadness I felt when SAA retired their last B744's. It's the same feeling. I remember flying many times on the B742's from HRE to LGW and the excitement when the B744 was launched on the route. BA's 747's and SAA's B74S were the beginnings of my love for aviation.
300, 310, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 342, 343, 345, 346, 380, 707, 727, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 742, 74L, 743, 744, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 772, 77L 773, 77W, D10, AT46, AT76, AT75, 142, DH3, ER4, AR1, AR8
 
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fraspotter
Posts: 2264
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:17 pm

And the commercial aviation industry just keeps getting more and more boring with all these single deck twins. A world of predominantly A32X, 737, 777, 787, A330, A350 is not fun IMO. 747, A340 and A380 getting less and less common. :(
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15209
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:23 pm

I have had several rides on BA 747's in the 1980's, early 1990's, Oct/Nov. 2017 and Oct/Nov. 2018 JFK-LHR-JFK. The ones I took in 2017-2018 were a bit tired in their interiors and IFE, but they did the job fine. It was well understood that these 747's were on a short timeline to their end of use anyway for financial factors. Covid-19 with an expected lack of service demands for the next several years that can be better met with smaller, more efficient planes makes financial sense to do these retirements now. I wouldn't be surprised of the A380's also facing a similar fate although that may not be financially feasible for now.
What will BA use instead of the 747's on their JFK-LHR routes ? 777's ? A350's ?
 
Opus99
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:27 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I have had several rides on BA 747's in the 1980's, early 1990's, Oct/Nov. 2017 and Oct/Nov. 2018 JFK-LHR-JFK. The ones I took in 2017-2018 were a bit tired in their interiors and IFE, but they did the job fine. It was well understood that these 747's were on a short timeline to their end of use anyway for financial factors. Covid-19 with an expected lack of service demands for the next several years that can be better met with smaller, more efficient planes makes financial sense to do these retirements now. I wouldn't be surprised of the A380's also facing a similar fate although that may not be financially feasible for now.
What will BA use instead of the 747's on their JFK-LHR routes ? 777's ? A350's ?

The new and also refurbished 777-300ERs (with club suite) AND the 777-200ERs (with club suite)
 
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gdg9
Posts: 1006
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:42 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:33 pm

Going to be odd next time at Myrtle Avenue and not seeing these 747s approaching in the distance.
@dfwtower
 
AndoAv8R
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:29 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:34 pm

Luckily last year I had a business trip and intentionally scheduled my flight late out of Denver so I could see the British Airways 747 land and arrive at the gate. Going to miss seeing it fly over when the weather was bad and it had to come in from the northwest. I assume if/when BA resumes to Denver it'll likely be a 777/787?
 
Arion640
Posts: 3059
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:36 pm

AndoAv8R wrote:
Luckily last year I had a business trip and intentionally scheduled my flight late out of Denver so I could see the British Airways 747 land and arrive at the gate. Going to miss seeing it fly over when the weather was bad and it had to come in from the northwest. I assume if/when BA resumes to Denver it'll likely be a 777/787?


DEN seems like an A350 candidate route to me.
 
Breathe
Posts: 671
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:50 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Very sad way to have the 747 end their flying at British Airways, after Pan AM BA was the second airline so closely associated with the Jumbo. Hoping a couple will be preserved at the Smithsonian, Museum of Flight, Duxford or other UK Aviation museums.

AM so glad that in the last few years I managed to fly on two BA 744 from the UK to the USA plus last August from Sydney to Tokyo Haneda on Qantas.

I hope the Museum of Flight in East Fortune can get one to compliment the Concorde they already have.

What an almost out of the blue watershed moment for BA. It certainly marks an end of an era after nearly 50 years of operating various variants of the 747.

Like Concorde though, there is no place for sentiment in business and if retiring the 747s 4 years earlier than planned is necessary to save jobs and the airline, it has to be done I guess.

The aircraft played a pivotal role for the airline and its immediate predecessors, so I do hope that they will give them a proper send off and a socially distanced farewell tour of some sort can be arranged providing lockdown rules become more relaxed throughout the rest of the year.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1402
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:53 pm

Sad to see it confirmed that the 747’s are being withdrawn immediately, but not surprising in the current climate. It goes to show how ruthless some airlines are acting at this time and how bleak the short-to-medium term outlook is.

The 747 has served BA well (along with BOAC initially) and owe them nothing. It was coming within the next few years, but it will be strange not to see a BA 747 flying anymore.

VCVSpotter wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Basically BA has given up hope on travel returning to normal until 2022 at least.

That said, what are the odds that the A388 at BA returns to service? I would say about 20-25 percent at best...and then the B772 (GE ER fleet) will have to soldier on a bit longer.


The 747s were long paid for and amortized. They were scheduled for retirement over the next few years. To scrap the A380s would be a massive write down.


British Airways A380 G-XLEI flew CHR-LHR today (July 16). Doubt they would fly one out if they weren’t intent on keeping at least some of the fleet.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-xlei


In addition, one BA A380 pilot whom I follow on Twitter recently did a 6 month sim check and licence to fly them has been renewed for another year. I appreciate things are fluid under the current situation, but unlike the 747’s where it seemed to be coming based on the recent post about stopping recent checks etc. and the public statement about 747’s being the target for fleet reductions, it would seem BA is still involving the A380 in its future plans at the moment and it doesn’t follow that they would do checks on their A380 pilots if they know they’re about to get rid of them.
 
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cv990Coronado
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:38 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:01 pm

I expected the RR share price to take a hit with this but, apparently not, which is good news.
SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
 
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CarbonFibre
Topic Author
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:04 pm

Eurowingsa320 wrote:
Any ideas when we will see the one world bill board titles on another ba plane?, I’m pretty sure there going to be on the 77w fleet.


x7 B772s were supposed to be getting done this year but that obviously changed.
 
clipperlondon
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:43 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:09 pm

Aaaaw! Such a shame! And having to go in such a manner too (The dreaded Corona Virus).

I flew on the BA 747s more times than I care to remember - LHR - BOM/JFK/LAX/BOS/SFO Montreal and more.

And on PanAm, TWA, Northwest, Kuwait, Air-India, SAA, SABENA, Air France, KLM.

But a special place in my heart for the BA birds. Always felt at home on the great flying Queen of the Skies. And the sound of those mighty RB 2-11s ( nearly as old as the plane itself ! ) which is quite an achievement as well.

And yes it is uneconomic and all that, but we can only hope that at least one can be saved for posterity, hopefully in BOAC colours - the most elegant of liveries IMHO.

Tara ladies, you will be sorely missed.
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 519
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:29 pm

CNN had an article which indicated the entire fleet was to be retired immediately with little thought to their return:

"It is with great sadness that we can confirm we are proposing to retire our entire 747 fleet with immediate effect," British Airways, the world's biggest operator of the 747-400, said in a statement Friday.

"It is unlikely our magnificent 'queen of the skies' will ever operate commercial services for British Airways again due to the downturn in travel caused by the Covid-19 global pandemic," said British Airways, which is part of the IAG aviation group.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/b ... li=BBnbklE
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24367
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:30 pm

marcelh wrote:
More that as long the virus is spreading uncontrollably, borders won’t open up to those places. And video conferencing has proven that you don’t have to fly for a business meeting, so premium demand won’t go back to pre-COVID levels. Add in some disruption of a hard Brexit and BA is facing a perfect storm on their most profitable routes.

It's kind of interesting many people are finally accepting that video teleconferencing is going to impact business travel going forward. I had some pretty strong pushback on this idea a few months ago. I'm sure there still will be a need for face-to-face business meetings in many circumstances, but I also feel people also now feel comfortable doing many more things via video teleconferencing than they did a year ago. Given how long the COVID shutdowns will extend they'll have no choice but do even more of them. And of course the economic factors are huge. Most businesses are strongly impacted by COVID and going forward approval for travel will be harder to get than ever. The "new normal" is people doing things by teleconference and for most people travel will be the exception rather than the rule.

In my case I attended a technical conference remotely for the first time a few weeks ago, and everything worked well. In regards to technical content I probably got more out of it than in person because I could jump from session to session based on what was being presented and since all content was online immediately I could go back and view things I missed. In terms of person to person interaction, they set up a Slack messaging server for attendees with individual channels for each type of content. I'd say I got to participate in more conversations than I ever would have in real life, since the real life conversations are just random luck of the draw. And for economics, it's no comparison. The live conference fee would have been $1200, the virtual conference fee was $50. The real live conference would have meant four nights in a hotel, expensive meals, and transcontinental travel. The conference made out too. They normally draw less than 200 for it, online they drew over 4000, and avoided most of the expenses they'd suffer with real life conferences. They've already said they will offer a remote option for all the conferences they do going forward.

IMO, the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to business travel, and it's gonna be hard to get it back in.

leleko747 wrote:
It seems every 747 fan is losing a relative lately... it feels like losing a close person...

2020 will forever be remembered as a bleak year.

I must admit I was expecting a drastic fleet reduction, maybe coming back with 10 frames or so. But retiring them all at once... that hit hard.

Yes, but once you cut it down to ten, the cut to zero became a lot easier to do. It's hard to justify the entire maintenance and training regime needed for a small fleet. Then, given it's clear 2020 is a write off and 2021 isn't looking much better, it's very tempting to turn the whole thing off.

Given the number of new aircraft they have recently bought and ones they have on order, it's really hard to justify keeping the 744 fleet around hoping things get better.

DCA350 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Basically BA has given up hope on travel returning to normal until 2022 at least.

That said, what are the odds that the A388 at BA returns to service? I would say about 20-25 percent at best...and then the B772 (GE ER fleet) will have to soldier on a bit longer.


The 747s were long paid for and amortized. They were scheduled for retirement over the next few years. To scrap the A380s would be a massive write down.

True, but as above the 744s just had a billion dollars invested in them and their write down will not be small. Pretty much all the things written about 744 in the staff letter ( premium heavy, need to fly full to make money, A350/787 are more efficient ) are true for A380 as well. Also as QR just pointed out yesterday in an article on FlightGlobal, A380s are next on the ecology hit list. Their engines are a big step behind the 787 and beyond era engines.

Opus99 wrote:
What will BA use instead of the 747's on their JFK-LHR routes ? 777's ? A350's ?

The new and also refurbished 777-300ERs (with club suite) AND the 777-200ERs (with club suite)[/quote]
I thought I read that 787-10 was ordered to be a TATL mainstay as well?

I guess CV-19 will shift a lot of allocations around.
Last edited by Revelation on Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
jfk777
Posts: 7356
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:36 pm

Hoping BA will do "Good-Bye" flights like Qantas did. Don't forget us in America BA.
 
Stickpusher
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:54 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:39 pm

bennett123 wrote:
...Kemble, St Athan and Tereul are normally the end of the road.


Certainly in the case of Kemble. I passed by there a few days ago, G-CIVN is parked right up by the public road, engineless

At Kemble on Monday were the 3x BA frames in your list, 3x Corsair, 3x Saudi Arabian, 1x KLM with the nosewheel door painted roughly TF-AMG (it has been sold to Air Atlanta for parting out, apparently, ex PH-BFG, I guess the "big friendly giant"?), and I can't leave out the old MK Air B742 which unlike the others still has all its engines after all these years. I believe it was bought for some TV program years ago?

The other 4-ex-engined aircraft there are two Plus Ultra A343s and a Qatar A346.

They're all going somewhere, but not as a unit anymore.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/S9XKAHMzyJZkreyL6

Image

Image

Image

I was fortunate back in February, having not flown on a 747 for over a decade, to have VS swap an A333 returning from BGI for the 747, and to get "The Falcon" into the bargain. When I learned of the equipment swap I immediately forked out a little extra to ride home upstairs. As I said to my wife, "it's been so long since the last 747 trip (BA - CIVO, LHR-CAI), who knows when we might get another chance?". While we'd been away in the Caribbean the situation had changed a lot, so the return trip was over half empty, we had our pick of seat rows. Back then there was rampant political denial going on, while VS was already spacing the pax out across the cabin, given the chance.

Nicest ride in the 747 we'd ever had. We're more fans of the A34x/A33x since we travel as a couple, but in this case everything was good. So glad we had that equipment change.
Last edited by Stickpusher on Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3584
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:41 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Basically BA has given up hope on travel returning to normal until 2022 at least.

That said, what are the odds that the A388 at BA returns to service? I would say about 20-25 percent at best...and then the B772 (GE ER fleet) will have to soldier on a bit longer.


The 747s were long paid for and amortized. They were scheduled for retirement over the next few years. To scrap the A380s would be a massive write down.



A month ago, I might have argued the point with him. But travel will not be back to pre Covid levels. When it does re-peak, I would have to agree that even 2022 is highly optimistic.

So for the 388s, the real question is with what BA are paying for them, will they be able to recover as much operating as they would have in taxing incentives to write down the loss?

I would imagine this gets complex with the 388s, as they do have a useful cargo load if PAX count can be certain to remain below a certain point. Not an ideal solution by any means, but that could be well enough to justify the operational cost. Any RASM benefits are history though.


Also, only 3 of the 9 A388s (G-XLEF/I/J) are owned. G-XLEA/D are owned by Airbus directly, and the other 7 are leased from Japanese lessors. G-XLEB/C/G/K/L are owned by FPG Amentum, and G-XLEE/H are owned by Fuyo General Lease (G-EUNA/B are also owned by Fuyo). The frames are between 4 and 8 years old. At least airlines like LH have it a bit easier, as the LH Group owns all of its jets with more than 2 engines.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3059
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:58 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
DCA350 wrote:

The 747s were long paid for and amortized. They were scheduled for retirement over the next few years. To scrap the A380s would be a massive write down.



A month ago, I might have argued the point with him. But travel will not be back to pre Covid levels. When it does re-peak, I would have to agree that even 2022 is highly optimistic.

So for the 388s, the real question is with what BA are paying for them, will they be able to recover as much operating as they would have in taxing incentives to write down the loss?

I would imagine this gets complex with the 388s, as they do have a useful cargo load if PAX count can be certain to remain below a certain point. Not an ideal solution by any means, but that could be well enough to justify the operational cost. Any RASM benefits are history though.


Also, only 3 of the 9 A388s (G-XLEF/I/J) are owned. G-XLEA/D are owned by Airbus directly, and the other 7 are leased from Japanese lessors. G-XLEB/C/G/K/L are owned by FPG Amentum, and G-XLEE/H are owned by Fuyo General Lease (G-EUNA/B are also owned by Fuyo). The frames are between 4 and 8 years old. At least airlines like LH have it a bit easier, as the LH Group owns all of its jets with more than 2 engines.


For now, I think the A380 will return, but my opinion may change depending how the next few months go. They’re probably evaluating what’s going to happen.

The A380 may have a role to play, as BA will be able to roll 3 flights in to 1 or 2, such as Los Angeles which was 3 daily pre covid.
Last edited by Arion640 on Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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