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Opus99
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:58 pm

Revelation wrote:
marcelh wrote:
More that as long the virus is spreading uncontrollably, borders won’t open up to those places. And video conferencing has proven that you don’t have to fly for a business meeting, so premium demand won’t go back to pre-COVID levels. Add in some disruption of a hard Brexit and BA is facing a perfect storm on their most profitable routes.

It's kind of interesting many people are finally accepting that video teleconferencing is going to impact business travel going forward. I had some pretty strong pushback on this idea a few months ago. I'm sure there still will be a need for face-to-face business meetings in many circumstances, but I also feel people also now feel comfortable doing many more things via video teleconferencing than they did a year ago. Given how long the COVID shutdowns will extend they'll have no choice but do even more of them. And of course the economic factors are huge. Most businesses are strongly impacted by COVID and going forward approval for travel will be harder to get than ever. The "new normal" is people doing things by teleconference and for most people travel will be the exception rather than the rule.

In my case I attended a technical conference remotely for the first time a few weeks ago, and everything worked well. In regards to technical content I probably got more out of it than in person because I could jump from session to session based on what was being presented and since all content was online immediately I could go back and view things I missed. In terms of person to person interaction, they set up a Slack messaging server for attendees with individual channels for each type of content. I'd say I got to participate in more conversations than I ever would have in real life, since the real life conversations are just random luck of the draw. And for economics, it's no comparison. The live conference fee would have been $1200, the virtual conference fee was $50. The real live conference would have meant four nights in a hotel, expensive meals, and transcontinental travel. The conference made out too. They normally draw less than 200 for it, online they drew over 4000, and avoided most of the expenses they'd suffer with real life conferences. They've already said they will offer a remote option for all the conferences they do going forward.

IMO, the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to business travel, and it's gonna be hard to get it back in.

leleko747 wrote:
It seems every 747 fan is losing a relative lately... it feels like losing a close person...

2020 will forever be remembered as a bleak year.

I must admit I was expecting a drastic fleet reduction, maybe coming back with 10 frames or so. But retiring them all at once... that hit hard.

Yes, but once you cut it down to ten, the cut to zero became a lot easier to do. It's hard to justify the entire maintenance and training regime needed for a small fleet. Then, given it's clear 2020 is a write off and 2021 isn't looking much better, it's very tempting to turn the whole thing off.

Given the number of new aircraft they have recently bought and ones they have on order, it's really hard to justify keeping the 744 fleet around hoping things get better.

DCA350 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Basically BA has given up hope on travel returning to normal until 2022 at least.

That said, what are the odds that the A388 at BA returns to service? I would say about 20-25 percent at best...and then the B772 (GE ER fleet) will have to soldier on a bit longer.


The 747s were long paid for and amortized. They were scheduled for retirement over the next few years. To scrap the A380s would be a massive write down.

True, but as above the 744s just had a billion dollars invested in them and their write down will not be small. Pretty much all the things written about 744 in the staff letter ( premium heavy, need to fly full to make money, A350/787 are more efficient ) are true for A380 as well. Also as QR just pointed out yesterday in an article on FlightGlobal, A380s are next on the ecology hit list. Their engines are a big step behind the 787 and beyond era engines.

Opus99 wrote:
What will BA use instead of the 747's on their JFK-LHR routes ? 777's ? A350's ?

The new and also refurbished 777-300ERs (with club suite) AND the 777-200ERs (with club suite)

I thought I read that 787-10 was ordered to be a TATL mainstay as well?

I guess CV-19 will shift a lot of allocations around.

Yes it is, but it won’t be on the most premium TATL routes. So expect it on Dallas, Atlanta, Seattle, Nashville (pre-covid so it will probably be put on hold) etc. The 77W expect it on all previous super high J 747 routes as it’s going to have the highest J count (76) bar the 380.

As the four new 77Ws arrive and the rest are refurbished they will be on the more premium TATL like JFK, LAX, BOS, ORD, IAD, SFO etc.
 
uta999
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:45 pm

Your computer just got better
 
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Revelation
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:07 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
A month ago, I might have argued the point with him. But travel will not be back to pre Covid levels. When it does re-peak, I would have to agree that even 2022 is highly optimistic.

So for the 388s, the real question is with what BA are paying for them, will they be able to recover as much operating as they would have in taxing incentives to write down the loss?

I would imagine this gets complex with the 388s, as they do have a useful cargo load if PAX count can be certain to remain below a certain point. Not an ideal solution by any means, but that could be well enough to justify the operational cost. Any RASM benefits are history though.

Also, only 3 of the 9 A388s (G-XLEF/I/J) are owned. G-XLEA/D are owned by Airbus directly, and the other 7 are leased from Japanese lessors. G-XLEB/C/G/K/L are owned by FPG Amentum, and G-XLEE/H are owned by Fuyo General Lease (G-EUNA/B are also owned by Fuyo). The frames are between 4 and 8 years old. At least airlines like LH have it a bit easier, as the LH Group owns all of its jets with more than 2 engines.

Very interesting. I wonder what the lease durations are.
Last edited by Revelation on Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Opus99
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:17 pm

 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:02 pm

Sad, gonna miss 63J and 62K on the upper deck, that was a perfect size for a long haul cabin. :(
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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mikedelta720
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:06 pm

RIP. A true end of an era. JFK absolutely won't be the same without them, especially with no more passenger 744s around anymore. It'll take a lot of getting used to BA's 77Ws now instead of the iconic Queen :(
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:30 pm

BA was my hope of (short term) continued 747 flying. With KLM, Qantas, and others retiring the type, it will be interesting to see what LH and KE do.

I will not be holding my breath.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:45 pm

lightsaber wrote:
BA was my hope of (short term) continued 747 flying. With KLM, Qantas, and others retiring the type, it will be interesting to see what LH and KE do.

I will not be holding my breath.

Lightsaber


Based off of what I’ve seen (with LH fleet storage), I wouldn’t be surprised if they would retire the 744s, have a drop in overall long haul capacity for a year or so, and be the launch customer for the 779.

I’ve heard KE are holding onto theirs because they also maintain the presidential 744 and so it makes sense to just keep them going...I heard that’s gonna be replaced late next year so we may see KE still operating 744s...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
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leleko747
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:24 pm

My biggest money bet is on Rossiya right now. People seem to forget they have 10 or 9 in their fleet.
Mahan Air, from Iran, also have a single one, EP-MNB.

There is still hope.
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
LHA320
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:47 pm

lightsaber wrote:
BA was my hope of (short term) continued 747 flying. With KLM, Qantas, and others retiring the type, it will be interesting to see what LH and KE do.

I will not be holding my breath.

Lightsaber


On the LH side, your hope can be focused on the 4 aircraft stored at HAM, namely D-ABVM, VW, VY and VZ. These are the only ones which have to possibility of being returned to service. The rest of them, all at ENS and LDE, will meet their fate there.
At least D-ABVM swapped gears with D-ABVP, with the gear now good for another 3 years, so there is hope. D-ABVP got the old one, as it only had one more landing to complete.
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
irelayer
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:16 am

This makes me so sad. No more Queens gracing the skies over my house in SAN.

The worst part of this whole thing (aviation wise of course) is the little things we are losing everyday...the things we thought we had for just a little while longer, the things we thought we could count on, the things we took for granted.

Long live The Queen!
 
UAUA
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:17 pm

Any chance of saving these B747-400s? Most if not all? I mean if demand picks up maybe they will fly for BA again?
My former profile name was United Airline.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:49 pm

LHA320 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
BA was my hope of (short term) continued 747 flying. With KLM, Qantas, and others retiring the type, it will be interesting to see what LH and KE do.

I will not be holding my breath.

Lightsaber


On the LH side, your hope can be focused on the 4 aircraft stored at HAM, namely D-ABVM, VW, VY and VZ. These are the only ones which have to possibility of being returned to service. The rest of them, all at ENS and LDE, will meet their fate there.
At least D-ABVM swapped gears with D-ABVP, with the gear now good for another 3 years, so there is hope. D-ABVP got the old one, as it only had one more landing to complete.

I would suggest the 744's only hope of survival at LH is because they have too much money invested in 748i to kill those so 744 may get a chance.

9/11/2001 killed off the 747 Classic.

It looks like COVID-19 is what is killing off the 747-400.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:52 pm

And with this I think I’ve lost my interest in aviation like the increase in electric cars is killing off my interest in cars.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Arion640
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:56 pm

Sadly the 777-200ER is now moving to the most “classic” airliner in the skies.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:02 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
And with this I think I’ve lost my interest in aviation like the increase in electric cars is killing off my interest in cars.

I guess it's because "problem solved" is less interesting than "work in progress".

787/A350 less interesting than 747/DC10/L-1011.

Diesel electric loco less interesting than steam engine.

PC/phone/tablet less interesting than mainframe/mini "blinnkenlights".

Thank goodness for Raspberry Pi, Arduino, etc.

And putt-putt cars are just nasty from an engineering + ecology point of view, I doubt they'll be missed long term.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Andy33
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:39 pm

UAUA wrote:
Any chance of saving these B747-400s? Most if not all? I mean if demand picks up maybe they will fly for BA again?


Well, BA had already intended, and told its investors, that several would be withdrawn every year, and the very last one would be withdrawn in Feb 2024 which isn't all that far away now. A combination of 77Ws, A350-1000s and 779s are on order to provide replacement planes during this timeframe. In addition 12 787-10s were ordered to allow for expansion, and delivery has started. There certainly won't be any expansion, it will be a struggle to get back to the 2019 level of traffic by the end of 2023. As a result, the deliveries of new planes will just about keep place with a gradual return to previous traffic levels, so it is highly unlikely that there will be any requirement for 744s to return. Since pilots are no longer going through recurrent 744 sim sessions and indeed the simulators themselves are planned for disposal, there will be nobody current to fly them within a few months.
 
LHA320
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:10 pm

Revelation wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
BA was my hope of (short term) continued 747 flying. With KLM, Qantas, and others retiring the type, it will be interesting to see what LH and KE do.

I will not be holding my breath.

Lightsaber


On the LH side, your hope can be focused on the 4 aircraft stored at HAM, namely D-ABVM, VW, VY and VZ. These are the only ones which have to possibility of being returned to service. The rest of them, all at ENS and LDE, will meet their fate there.
At least D-ABVM swapped gears with D-ABVP, with the gear now good for another 3 years, so there is hope. D-ABVP got the old one, as it only had one more landing to complete.

I would suggest the 744's only hope of survival at LH is because they have too much money invested in 748i to kill those so 744 may get a chance.

9/11/2001 killed off the 747 Classic.

It looks like COVID-19 is what is killing off the 747-400.


True, that's the only reason why a fleet of 4 aircraft could be used profitable for a short period of time. As a standalone fleet, no chance!
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
LHA320
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:11 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Sadly the 777-200ER is now moving to the most “classic” airliner in the skies.


I think the A343 is more classic. 4 engines and EIS two years earlier!
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
bennett123
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:29 pm

UAUA

Apart from anything else;

Kemble has 3, very rare for a plane to fly out. All three have about 105K on the clock.
St Athan has 1. Never heard of any airliner going into storage and fly out. 96K on the clock.
Tereul has 5. Never heard of any airliner going into storage and fly out. 1 with 125K, 1 with 100K and 3 with 90-95K.

Of the rest;

14 are roughly in the region of 90K to 100K, 4 are between 100K and 110K. The remaining 5 are 110K to 120K+.

Bearing in mind that some of these figures are nearly a year old.

It is hard to see even an aircraft with 90K being worth converting and there is no indication that some sort of interim configuration is being considered. The statement by BA seems to be the end of the road.
 
ethernal
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:35 pm

LHA320 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Sadly the 777-200ER is now moving to the most “classic” airliner in the skies.


I think the A343 is more classic. 4 engines and EIS two years earlier!


There are very few A343s in the air.. even with BA's retirement, there are about as many 744s still being operated. Of course, post-COVID who knows where things land (but I imagine it would impact A343 fleets just as badly).

The 777-200ER still in operation are more than 2X the combined fleet of 343 and 744s so I believe that Arion640's comments are reasonable in practice (of course one could argue that it is hard to call what is still quite a modern all things considered a classic).
 
2175301
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:13 pm

LHA320 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Sadly the 777-200ER is now moving to the most “classic” airliner in the skies.


I think the A343 is more classic. 4 engines and EIS two years earlier!


Not even close. There are still DC-3's flying in commercial service.
 
LHA320
Posts: 132
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:18 pm

ethernal wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Sadly the 777-200ER is now moving to the most “classic” airliner in the skies.


I think the A343 is more classic. 4 engines and EIS two years earlier!


There are very few A343s in the air.. even with BA's retirement, there are about as many 744s still being operated. Of course, post-COVID who knows where things land (but I imagine it would impact A343 fleets just as badly).

The 777-200ER still in operation are more than 2X the combined fleet of 343 and 744s so I believe that Arion640's comments are reasonable in practice (of course one could argue that it is hard to call what is still quite a modern all things considered a classic).


While true I was thinking of the possibility of flying one. If someone wants to fly on one, it will be one of the backbones of LH Groups post Corona Long haul fleet (Flying with LH, LX and WK), gracing the skies on many routes to the US and Asia. Flying the 744 in regular scheduled service will be much harder, with the only chance may be Rosiya or exotic possibilities like Mahan Air or Max Air etc.
Of course, flying the 772 would be much easier, but that makes the A343 even more classic for me, because it will be the rarest type of aircraft flown by a big airline. Much like the 748. Without wanting to advertise LH, but if we should return the 744 and A346 (both nearly impossible) to the fleet, we should be the airline of choice for avgeeks :lol:
AB6 - A319 - A320 - A321 - A333 - A388 - AT42 - 733 - 734 - 735 - 73H - 738 - 752 - 753 - 763 - 772 - DC10 - MD83
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:01 pm

I had a dream the other night after hearing about the retirement of the BA 747's and was wondering if this would be practical.
“Farewell to the Queen of the Skies flight.”

BA organise a farewell flight from Heathrow about 2hrs long for enthusiasts, down to the Bay of Biscay and then around the British Isles. The flight takes off at lunch times and a meal, appropriate to class of cabin is served, the in-flight entertainment would be the moving map and one film, Airplane, of course.
Pricing as follows;
First class £1,000
Club class £500
Y+ £250
Y £200

Would they make money on it if they filled the plane?
I do have some crazy dreams sometimes. :bouncy:
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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bennett123
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:16 pm

http://www.southwalesaviationgroup.co.u ... athan.html

G-CIVM now in scrapping compound at DGX.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:21 am

According to Forbes, the withdrawal of BAs entire 744 fleet is driven by the amount of premium seating. Some of their 744s had 100 premium seats with F and CW.

They do not predict the heavy business traffic to rebound quickly. In fact, we could see their 772s also withdrawn faster than planned too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... etirement/
 
Arion640
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:42 am

Scotron12 wrote:
According to Forbes, the withdrawal of BAs entire 744 fleet is driven by the amount of premium seating. Some of their 744s had 100 premium seats with F and CW.

They do not predict the heavy business traffic to rebound quickly. In fact, we could see their 772s also withdrawn faster than planned too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... etirement/


Must be frustrating for BA as the premium 747’s had only been refurbished in the last couple of years, with the non premium heavy mid j’s also working their way through refit very recently.
 
airsmiles
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:56 am

It will be interesting to see if BA actually scrap them all. If they keep a number of high-J 747’s in store they might be hedging their bets. If there’s a quicker than expected recovery in the market, and fuel prices remain relatively low, what’s the minimum number of 747’s that make a sub-fleet worthwhile? Perhaps 10-12 for JFK and a few other premium routes? I assume the remaining 747’s would be financially written-off and they’d be a load of spares at hand. I give it about 5% chance though.
 
Opus99
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:56 am

Scotron12 wrote:
According to Forbes, the withdrawal of BAs entire 744 fleet is driven by the amount of premium seating. Some of their 744s had 100 premium seats with F and CW.

They do not predict the heavy business traffic to rebound quickly. In fact, we could see their 772s also withdrawn faster than planned too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... etirement/

I read this, very interesting. But does this mean the question of a 777 replacement has to be brought forward? Or the current new generation aircrafts they have is enough to lift the weight for the foreseeable future. But even if they retire the 777s now, if they expect demand to return in 2024/2023 then they have to answer the question of a replacement.

Even though a 777 came out of cardiff last week with a brand new cabin (with club suite) about 10 777s have them now
 
Andy33
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:19 am

airsmiles wrote:
It will be interesting to see if BA actually scrap them all. If they keep a number of high-J 747’s in store they might be hedging their bets. If there’s a quicker than expected recovery in the market, and fuel prices remain relatively low, what’s the minimum number of 747’s that make a sub-fleet worthwhile? Perhaps 10-12 for JFK and a few other premium routes? I assume the remaining 747’s would be financially written-off and they’d be a load of spares at hand. I give it about 5% chance though.


But since there is no common type rating between 747s and any other aircraft type BA has, before very long there will no BA pilots, engineers, or cabin crew with currency on 744s. Pilot recurrent sim training on 744s has already ended, simulators are reported to be for disposal. So reactivating 744s in 2021 or later will be very expensive - need to use external resources to retrain everyone involved. We'll be able to see soon, though. If the 744s remaining at LHR are moved to locations with dismantling capacity while BA still has pilots who can legally move them, we'll know it is for keeps.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:06 pm

And as the article says, right now it's difficult enough to fill 35 CW seats on a B788....nevermind 80 CW on a 744. But, their 787-10s were for expansion and they have 12 of them coming in. Plus plenty of options on A350s and their orders on the 779s.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:12 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
According to Forbes, the withdrawal of BAs entire 744 fleet is driven by the amount of premium seating. Some of their 744s had 100 premium seats with F and CW.

They do not predict the heavy business traffic to rebound quickly. In fact, we could see their 772s also withdrawn faster than planned too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... etirement/

Must be frustrating for BA as the premium 747’s had only been refurbished in the last couple of years, with the non premium heavy mid j’s also working their way through refit very recently.

Wonder if they are removing the premium seats and putting them into storage for use on the new aircraft on order?

Maybe they won't bother, given that an AIRLINE CEO is saying:

“I don’t think we’ll ever get back entirely to where we were in 2019 on the volume of business traffic,” Delta Air Lines CEO Ed Bastian told investors this week. “The international trips that we’ve all been on where we’ve flown over to Europe for a two-hour meeting and flown back that does nothing but beat you up can certainly be much easily better accommodated over a video call.”

In other words, the genie ain't going back in to the bottle.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Qantas59
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:44 pm

Can anyone on here confirm that BA58 CPT-LHR on 4 Jun 20, operating with G-CIVP was in fact the last 747 passenger service with BA? Sorry if I have missed this being mentioned elsewhere.
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
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Crosswind
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:16 pm

Revelation wrote:
Wonder if they are removing the premium seats and putting them into storage for use on the new aircraft on order?


New aircraft are coming with Club Suite installed and where relevant a modified version of First from the 787-9 so no premium product from the 747 is relevant going forward. The 747 refresh seen over the last few years covered new lighting, IFE and soft furnishings rather than new seating. So the 747 seating isn't useful elsewhere.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
BealineV953
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:35 pm

Thirty-six narrow body Airbuses have been stored at Bournemouth Hurn. All but nine have left, with A319s and A320s going to LHR and A321s going to GLA.
The Airbuses that have had a holiday at the seaside are listed below.
Taken from 'BA Source', the first date is the date they arrived and where from, and the second date is the date they left (for those that have) and where they went.
A319 G-DBCD 25-Mar from LGW 02-Jul to LHR
A319  G-DBCK 25-Mar from MAD 10-Jul to LHR
A319  G-EUPD 23-Mar from LHR
A319  G-EUPF 23-Mar from LHR 19-Jun to LHR
A319  G-EUPG 23-Mar from LHR 17-Jul to LHR
A319  G-EUPJ 30-May from LHR
A319  G-EUPK 25-Mar from LHR
A319  G-EUPL 26-Mar from LHR 22-Jun to LHR
A319  G-EUPO 26-Mar from LHR 28-Jun to LHR
A319  G-EUPS 25-Mar from LHR
A319  G-EUPU 25-Mar from LHR 30-May to LHR
A319  G-EUPW 24-Mar from LHR 15-Jun to LHR
A319  G-EUPY 23-Mar from LHR 10-Jul to LHR
A319  G-EUPZ 26-Mar from LHR 10-Jun to LHR
A320 G-EUUA 23-Mar from MAD 11-Jul to LHR
A320 G-EUUD 24-Mar from LHR 01-Jul to LHR
A320 G-EUUH 24-Mar from LHR 15-Jul to LHR
A320 G-EUUI 23-Mar from LHR 16-Jun to LHR
A320 G-EUUJ 24-Mar from LHR 25-Jun to LHR
A320 G-EUUK 24-Mar from LHR 13-Jul to LHR
A320 G-EUUL 24-Mar from LHR
A320 G-EUUM 25-Mar from LGW 04-Jul to LHR
A320 G-EUUN 25-Mar from LGW 18-Jun to LHR
A320 G-EUUP 23-Mar from LHR
A320 G-EUYB 25-Mar from LGW
A320 G-EUYC 24-Mar from LHR 01-Jul to LHR
A320 G-EUYD 24-Mar from LHR 19-Jun to LHR
A320 G-EUYE 24-Mar from LHR 12-Jun to LHR
A320 G-EUYG 25-Mar from LHR
A320 G-EUYJ 24-Mar from LHR 08-Jul to LHR
A321 G-EUXD 23-Mar from LHR
A321 G-EUXE 23-Mar from LHR 19-Jul to GLA
A321 G-EUXE 26-Mar from LHR 13-Jul to GLA
A321 G-EUXJ 23-Mar from LHR 16-Jul to GLA
A321 G-MEDL 23-Mar from LHR 16-Jul to GLA
A321 G-MEDM 25-Mar from LHR 14-Jul to GLA
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
BealineV953
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:39 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
Can anyone on here confirm that BA58 CPT-LHR on 4 Jun 20, operating with G-CIVP was in fact the last 747 passenger service with BA? Sorry if I have missed this being mentioned elsewhere.


BA Source gives the the final BA 747 passenger service as G-CIVO on a Cape Town to Heathrow repatriation flight on 2nd June, arriving into Heathrow on the morning of 3rd June.

However, BA Source shows G-CIVP as operating a Heathrow to Cape Town cargo sector as BA59 on 3rd June "in order to be in position for a repatriation flight tomorrow". I can see no record of the repatriation flight on 3rd June, or of IVP positioning back.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
BealineV953
Posts: 204
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:09 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://mediacentre.britishairways.com/news/17072020/british-airways-says-farewell-to-the-queen-of-the-skies?ref=Home

OFFICIAL STATEMENT BY BA


I was getting used to the idea of BA’s 747s leaving the fleet, but I feel very sad about this premature retirement.

It is a great shame that BA did not reach 50 years of service with the 747. The half century would have come up in April 2021; BOAC took delivery of its first 747 in April 1970, but an industrial dispute delayed entry into service until April ’71, by which time six had been delivered.

In the 1960s and 70s I lived a couple of miles north of Heathrow. My neighbour’s father was a BOAC engineer, and when the first 747 was delivered he took my family to the BOAC engineering base to have a close look. I have pictures of my sister and me standing by the 747’s nose-wheel.

I joined British Airways in 1979 and over the years did a number of jobs that involved frequent travel. I also travel as much as I can for fun. I’ve made 337 flights on BA 747s totalling 2,696 hours and 10 minutes in the air, the equivalent of more than 112 days. I realise that 2,696 hours will be nothing compared to flight or cabin crew, but it may not be too shabby for a humble passenger.
I flew on all but three of the 747-136s delivered to BOAC / BA. This included flights on the 747 that my sister and I were pictured next to in 1970. Back then I never imagined that in later years I would fly on that magnificent airliner half a dozen times.
I flew on all 16 BA 747-236s.
I have flown on all 57 BA 747-436s. That wasn’t a fluke: I got to 50 or so without trying, but the last six or seven were proving to be elusive so I made trips specifically to fly on them. In the evening I’d look at the Operations programme for the next day, and if one of the 747s I hadn’t been on was going somewhere suitable (no visa or inoculations required) and seats were available I’d list myself for the flight. It didn’t always work; the 747 fleet was notorious for on the day changes, and once or twice I had to abandon trips or make a last minute switch to a destination where one of the 747s I hadn’t been on was going.
I ticked off my last 747-400 with a trip to Las Vegas. I was at McCarran for 6 hours and didn’t leave the terminal. On arrival I figured that it was best to tell the US Immigration officer the truth: “BA has 57 747-400s, there is just one I haven’t flown on, and I’m making this trip to fly on it. I’ll be here for 6 hours and will then head home.” I was expecting to be sent to Secondary Inspection and for the latex gloves to come out, but she laughed, said “Sounds good to me honey” and sent me on my way.
My last flight on a BA 747 was in the middle of March, a few days before BA began grounding the fleet. I chose the 747 over a shiny new A350. I'm glad I did.

With British Airways, Qantas, KLM and, I think, Air India retiring the type, it looks as if only Lufthansa will reach the half century milestone.
Last edited by BealineV953 on Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 24626
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:09 pm

Crosswind wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Wonder if they are removing the premium seats and putting them into storage for use on the new aircraft on order?


New aircraft are coming with Club Suite installed and where relevant a modified version of First from the 787-9 so no premium product from the 747 is relevant going forward. The 747 refresh seen over the last few years covered new lighting, IFE and soft furnishings rather than new seating. So the 747 seating isn't useful elsewhere.

Regards
CROSSWIND

Thanks for the info!
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
PaxPicti
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:37 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:35 pm

Although I don't think it has a chance of happening, it would be nice if the British government took a couple of them as VIP transport, instead of the A330 they've just repainted. More appropriate for a head of state, since they have four engines... exactly the reason the US is getting the new ones for 'Air Force One'. I did think an A340 would have been a good choice - they'll be going for next to nothing now too - but it would be much more impressive for the Queen (and future King) as well as the Prime Minister to travel on The Queen. If Mr. Johnson really wants to make a statement about Britain's place in the world, what better way than with the Queen of the Skies?
 
na
Posts: 9770
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:08 pm

NORMAN FOSTER
Farewell to the Boeing 747, the greatest building ever flown.
Modern architecture could learn a lot from its beauty and endurance

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fare ... -b82gts6c5

If even architect icon Sir Norman Foster sheds a tear over the demise of the 747 then we know something important happened in aviation. Without the 747 civil aviation is becoming a lot duller. A loss of culture.
 
TC957
Posts: 3844
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:58 pm

Would be cool to let Banksy do a farewell 747 mural on some wall around LHR.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4838
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:58 pm

TC957 wrote:
Would be cool to let Banksy do a farewell 747 mural on some wall around LHR.

Oh dear God!!!! Hasn’t 2020 caused enough suffering? Besides some of the world tails the fleet wore during the Utopia years were art enough for one lifetime.
 
Scotron12
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:29 pm

skipness1E wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Would be cool to let Banksy do a farewell 747 mural on some wall around LHR.

Oh dear God!!!! Hasn’t 2020 caused enough suffering? Besides some of the world tails the fleet wore during the Utopia years were art enough for one lifetime.


Yeah.. not to digress...but the World Tails, were not so bad! Never understood the hostility that they evoked.

But, that time has passed....just like the 747.
 
TC957
Posts: 3844
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:00 am

skipness1E wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Would be cool to let Banksy do a farewell 747 mural on some wall around LHR.

Oh dear God!!!! Hasn’t 2020 caused enough suffering? Besides some of the world tails the fleet wore during the Utopia years were art enough for one lifetime.

Why do you say that ? I bet he could come up some amazing BA 747 tribute artwork to grace an otherwise drab plain wall.
 
AstanaMagic
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:57 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:54 am

TC957 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Would be cool to let Banksy do a farewell 747 mural on some wall around LHR.

Oh dear God!!!! Hasn’t 2020 caused enough suffering? Besides some of the world tails the fleet wore during the Utopia years were art enough for one lifetime.

Why do you say that ? I bet he could come up some amazing BA 747 tribute artwork to grace an otherwise drab plain wall.



Cruz would probably dig it out and sell it
2020: AGP, KSQ, LGW, LHR, MXP, SVQ, TAS, XRY, ZRH
A/C: 32B, 32S, 752, 763, E90
A/L: BA, HY, LX, 2L
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:50 pm

skipness1E wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Would be cool to let Banksy do a farewell 747 mural on some wall around LHR.

Oh dear God!!!! Hasn’t 2020 caused enough suffering? Besides some of the world tails the fleet wore during the Utopia years were art enough for one lifetime.


Besides, Banksy tends to address real world issues in his art, social injustice for example and of late the need to wear a face mask on public transport. I don't think the retirement of an aircraft type from an airline would qualify. Perhaps he would do a mural on the threatened sacking of all long-serving staff and re-hire at worse conditions?
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:55 pm

PaxPicti wrote:
Although I don't think it has a chance of happening, it would be nice if the British government took a couple of them as VIP transport, instead of the A330 they've just repainted. More appropriate for a head of state, since they have four engines... exactly the reason the US is getting the new ones for 'Air Force One'. I did think an A340 would have been a good choice - they'll be going for next to nothing now too - but it would be much more impressive for the Queen (and future King) as well as the Prime Minister to travel on The Queen. If Mr. Johnson really wants to make a statement about Britain's place in the world, what better way than with the Queen of the Skies?


"Four engines for leaders"? Sounds familiar and is absolutely tone deaf. Leaders should lead by example and if they have to fly on non-commercial flights, should do so with equipment that keeps the CO2 emissions to the lowest practical. Flying outdated gas puzzles to impress is not really showing grandeur...just low self esteem.
 
PaxPicti
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:37 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:48 pm

You're missing the point. The reason four engines is appropriate for a head of state is that in a twin, if you lose one engine you must land at the nearest available airport - that could be highly inconvenient depending on the political situation with whatever country that happens to be in. With a quad you can continue on three.
 
2175301
Posts: 1898
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:04 pm

PaxPicti wrote:
You're missing the point. The reason four engines is appropriate for a head of state is that in a twin, if you lose one engine you must land at the nearest available airport - that could be highly inconvenient depending on the political situation with whatever country that happens to be in. With a quad you can continue on three.


My understanding is that the US Air Force did seriously look at the 777 for the replacement "AF-1" Presidential aircraft.

I understand that the reason they chose the 747 as the replacement aircraft was due to the required electrical generation of all of the US Presidents command, control, and communication equipment. 3 of the 4 engines of the 747 can generate enough electricity. Doing it with a both engines on a 777 was not possible, not to mention with a single engine. I understand that they were looking at dual "one of a kind custom" up-sized APU's (in addition to the normal one) if they were going to use a 777. Adding these would be costly and take a fair amount of space. Using the 747 just works out better.

Take away the need for nuclear and military force command and control - and you dramatically reduce the required electrical needs of an aircraft. 2 engines work fine in that case.

Have a great day,
 
xwb777
Posts: 912
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:09 pm

No more B744 trips to DXB !!

What are the associated costs if they have kept the owned B744s stored? Is it expensive for the airline?
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