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Airontario
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:59 pm

The Dash8-300s will outlive the CRJ-200s. When the Dash8s are retired, Jazz will likely be only CRJ-900s and Q400s.

It makes sense that routes that are currently on the Dash 8 will be replaced with the Q400. The handful of airports that cannot receive the Q400 will likely be removed from the AC/QK network.

Of course a lot can and will change in the next year because of Covid19 related issues.
 
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Embajador3
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:19 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Embajador3 wrote:


I take it you’re a huge ATR fan? I think it’s safe to say that most Canadian avgeeks are big on the Canadian built birds. I have to hand it to First Air though; they invented the ATR combi.


I have no preferences for one model or another. As an aviation enthusiast and crew member, I merely pointed out at a valid alternative to Jazz's ageing Dash8-100/200s. Whatever they decide in the end, will be fine with me.
Flying Together
 
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Embajador3
Posts: 341
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:19 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Embajador3 wrote:


I take it you’re a huge ATR fan? I think it’s safe to say that most Canadian avgeeks are big on the Canadian built birds. I have to hand it to First Air though; they invented the ATR combi.


I have no preferences for one model or another. As an aviation enthusiast and crew member, I merely pointed out at a valid alternative to Jazz's ageing Dash8-100/200s. Whatever they decide in the end, will be fine with me.
Flying Together
 
embraer175e2
Topic Author
Posts: 291
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:53 pm

Airontario wrote:
The Dash8-300s will outlive the CRJ-200s. When the Dash8s are retired, Jazz will likely be only CRJ-900s and Q400s.

It makes sense that routes that are currently on the Dash 8 will be replaced with the Q400. The handful of airports that cannot receive the Q400 will likely be removed from the AC/QK network.

Of course a lot can and will change in the next year because of Covid19 related issues.

Is there a scope clauses for Canadian pilots?
 
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767333ER
Posts: 1170
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:00 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
Embajador3 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

Nothing for at least the next 15 years.


Why not use brand new ATR42/72s? Canadian North, Air Saint Pierre, Northstar Air and First Air use them in Canada, without a problem.

is sure the solution for long term fuel gozzling dash 8's

That’s just it though; the -300 really isn’t a bad fuel guzzler, which is why it still exists, otherwise the -400 would’ve already replaced it. People I know at Jazz told me that apparently they find the economics on it often times better than the -400 which already is good enough to operate a profitable operation. I think just about any option is better than the CRJ-200.

Remember the -300 is not the over powered pencil with diving boards for wings. It’s much more similar in power plant and weight to an ATR, the only difference is that the Dash seems to be able to fly forever!
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

2 ears for spatial hearing, 2 eyes for depth perception, 2 ears for balance... How did Boeing think 1 sensor was good enough?!
 
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CFM565A1
Posts: 438
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:14 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Embajador3 wrote:

Why not use brand new ATR42/72s? Canadian North, Air Saint Pierre, Northstar Air and First Air use them in Canada, without a problem.

is sure the solution for long term fuel gozzling dash 8's


I take it you’re a huge ATR fan? I think it’s safe to say that most Canadian avgeeks are big on the Canadian built birds. I have to hand it to First Air though; they invented the ATR combi.


:lol: “Fuel Guzzling”, we always call the classic dash fuel burn “Honda fuel”
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
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CFM565A1
Posts: 438
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:16 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
Airontario wrote:
The Dash8-300s will outlive the CRJ-200s. When the Dash8s are retired, Jazz will likely be only CRJ-900s and Q400s.

It makes sense that routes that are currently on the Dash 8 will be replaced with the Q400. The handful of airports that cannot receive the Q400 will likely be removed from the AC/QK network.

Of course a lot can and will change in the next year because of Covid19 related issues.

Is there a scope clauses for Canadian pilots?


Technically yes, it’s in the Capacity Purchase agreements between AC and their various regional partners. It also includes fleet size (amount of a certain aircraft type). Jazz and AC currently sit at 78 seats.
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
embraer175e2
Topic Author
Posts: 291
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:31 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
is sure the solution for long term fuel gozzling dash 8's


I take it you’re a huge ATR fan? I think it’s safe to say that most Canadian avgeeks are big on the Canadian built birds. I have to hand it to First Air though; they invented the ATR combi.


:lol: “Fuel Guzzling”, we always call the classic dash fuel burn “Honda fuel”

Now there is also the Honda jet of course
 
9252fly
Posts: 1012
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:27 pm

My understanding is that the DH3 fuel burn per hour is about 500lbs vs the CRJ 200 at 1000lbs per hour, please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
embraer175e2
Topic Author
Posts: 291
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:15 pm

9252fly wrote:
My understanding is that the DH3 fuel burn per hour is about 500lbs vs the CRJ 200 at 1000lbs per hour, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now thats a fuel guzzling adventure for AC .
That crj instead of dash8 taking over some routes.
 
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CFM565A1
Posts: 438
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:33 am

embraer175e2 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
My understanding is that the DH3 fuel burn per hour is about 500lbs vs the CRJ 200 at 1000lbs per hour, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now thats a fuel guzzling adventure for AC .
That crj instead of dash8 taking over some routes.


1000Lbs per hr on the DH3 in cruise, CRJ is greater.
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
embraer175e2
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Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Mon May 04, 2020 5:37 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
My understanding is that the DH3 fuel burn per hour is about 500lbs vs the CRJ 200 at 1000lbs per hour, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now thats a fuel guzzling adventure for AC .
That crj instead of dash8 taking over some routes.


1000Lbs per hr on the DH3 in cruise, CRJ is greater.

Yes much greater. Its a jet vs a turboprop.
 
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CFM565A1
Posts: 438
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Wed May 06, 2020 5:33 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Now thats a fuel guzzling adventure for AC .
That crj instead of dash8 taking over some routes.


1000Lbs per hr on the DH3 in cruise, CRJ is greater.

Yes much greater. Its a jet vs a turboprop.


Yup, just correcting your numbers. My fuel flow gauges on the 300 usually would read about 490ish PPH per engine.
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
embraer175e2
Topic Author
Posts: 291
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Wed May 06, 2020 6:24 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:

1000Lbs per hr on the DH3 in cruise, CRJ is greater.

Yes much greater. Its a jet vs a turboprop.


Yup, just correcting your numbers. My fuel flow gauges on the 300 usually would read about 490ish PPH per engine.

Atr burns about 30 % less on their new turboprops.
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 444
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Wed May 06, 2020 10:16 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
9252fly wrote:
My understanding is that the DH3 fuel burn per hour is about 500lbs vs the CRJ 200 at 1000lbs per hour, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now thats a fuel guzzling adventure for AC .
That crj instead of dash8 taking over some routes.


Very true, though you do have to take into account that the CRJ is faster, and so requires fewer hours of fuel burn to do the same trip. Not enough to equalize the two, mind you.
 
embraer175e2
Topic Author
Posts: 291
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat May 09, 2020 5:08 pm

Its still more fuel consumption then a turboprop.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2809
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat May 09, 2020 5:24 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Yes much greater. Its a jet vs a turboprop.


Yup, just correcting your numbers. My fuel flow gauges on the 300 usually would read about 490ish PPH per engine.

Atr burns about 30 % less on their new turboprops.


30% less than a DH4, but not a DH3. The trade off is the ATR flies about 30% slower.
 
embraer175e2
Topic Author
Posts: 291
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat May 09, 2020 10:34 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:

Yup, just correcting your numbers. My fuel flow gauges on the 300 usually would read about 490ish PPH per engine.

Atr burns about 30 % less on their new turboprops.


30% less than a DH4, but not a DH3. The trade off is the ATR flies about 30% slower.

30% less slower then DH4.
 
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CFM565A1
Posts: 438
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sat May 09, 2020 11:50 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
is sure the solution for long term fuel gozzling dash 8's


I take it you’re a huge ATR fan? I think it’s safe to say that most Canadian avgeeks are big on the Canadian built birds. I have to hand it to First Air though; they invented the ATR combi.

These home made birds are getting older. This is what the topic is all about, what will replace them in 15 years from now? Air Canada mentioned crj on some routes but not all routes are big enough for the crj according to contris in this topic.


Viking is planning on making a shortened Dash 8-400 (approx. 50 seater). Those planes are in our Air Canada/Jazz CPA, slated to come in 2025. Obviously that could change now considering current events.
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
embraer175e2
Topic Author
Posts: 291
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sun May 10, 2020 12:49 am

CFM565A1 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

I take it you’re a huge ATR fan? I think it’s safe to say that most Canadian avgeeks are big on the Canadian built birds. I have to hand it to First Air though; they invented the ATR combi.

These home made birds are getting older. This is what the topic is all about, what will replace them in 15 years from now? Air Canada mentioned crj on some routes but not all routes are big enough for the crj according to contris in this topic.


Viking is planning on making a shortened Dash 8-400 (approx. 50 seater). Those planes are in our Air Canada/Jazz CPA, slated to come in 2025. Obviously that could change now considering current events.

Where do you get your information? It is nowhere to be found on google.
 
BAeRJ100
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:49 am

Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sun May 10, 2020 1:09 am

embraer175e2 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
These home made birds are getting older. This is what the topic is all about, what will replace them in 15 years from now? Air Canada mentioned crj on some routes but not all routes are big enough for the crj according to contris in this topic.


Viking is planning on making a shortened Dash 8-400 (approx. 50 seater). Those planes are in our Air Canada/Jazz CPA, slated to come in 2025. Obviously that could change now considering current events.

Where do you get your information? It is nowhere to be found on google.


Supposedly this article (behind a paywall) may have info:

https://www.flightglobal.com/analysis/d ... 37.article

I found it via Wikipedia, which states that DHC is "considering" a shrink, not that they have committed to one. Unless someone is able to read the article, it may as well be unverified.
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
A223/320/321/332/333/346/359/388
MD82/MD88/717/F100/RJ85/RJ100/146-100/200/300
E175/190/CRJ700/900
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sun May 10, 2020 10:52 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
These home made birds are getting older. This is what the topic is all about, what will replace them in 15 years from now? Air Canada mentioned crj on some routes but not all routes are big enough for the crj according to contris in this topic.


Viking is planning on making a shortened Dash 8-400 (approx. 50 seater). Those planes are in our Air Canada/Jazz CPA, slated to come in 2025. Obviously that could change now considering current events.

Where do you get your information? It is nowhere to be found on google.


It was presented as a possibility as part of signing the CPA or as mentioned here https://www.skiesmag.com/news/de-havilland-contemplates-stretched-shrunken-dash-8-400/
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
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CFM565A1
Posts: 438
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Re: Jazz Dash8-100 200 retirement

Sun May 10, 2020 10:53 pm

BAeRJ100 wrote:
embraer175e2 wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:

Viking is planning on making a shortened Dash 8-400 (approx. 50 seater). Those planes are in our Air Canada/Jazz CPA, slated to come in 2025. Obviously that could change now considering current events.

Where do you get your information? It is nowhere to be found on google.


Supposedly this article (behind a paywall) may have info:

https://www.flightglobal.com/analysis/d ... 37.article

I found it via Wikipedia, which states that DHC is "considering" a shrink, not that they have committed to one. Unless someone is able to read the article, it may as well be unverified.


Quite right, no commitment but before this virus, it was very likely... now who knows what the plan is.
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.

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