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asr0dzjq
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New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:51 pm

In the midst of the (entirely preventable) coronavirus pandemic, how long will it be before Lufthansa launches their new MUC-SEA route? Also, do you think they will launch MUC-SAN in the future?
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Prost
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:56 pm

I think it’s fair to say just because a route was announced during economic prosperity they feel zero obligation to follow through when the economy has constricted by 30%.
 
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chepos
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:03 pm

LH today has stated they will be shrinking their long haul fleet and the MUC/FRA hubs. Short term at least, I would be surprised if all of the pre Covid US destinations get resumed this year. With that said, my guess is these new summer launches won’t probably launch this year (just my guess).



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ANA787
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:06 pm

MUC-SEA has just been removed from schedules for the foreseeable future.
 
Ishrion
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:17 pm

MUC-DTW was also removed per the OAG over the weekend.
 
bravotango75
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:24 pm

I suspect that any new routes will be on hold well into next year, especially to smaller markets like SAN or SEA. If any new int'l routes are started to the US will the proven mainstays like JFK (possibly EWR), LAX, SFO, MIA, ORD, and IAD.
 
Kilopond
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:36 pm

Don*t expect much intercontinental traffic for the rest of the year, if any.

Lufthansa Group wrote:
The Executive Board of Deutsche Lufthansa AG does not expect the aviation industry to return to pre-coronavirus crisis levels very quickly. According to its assessment, it will take months until the global travel restrictions are completely lifted and years until the worldwide demand for air travel returns to pre-crisis levels. Based on this evaluation, today the Executive Board has decided on extensive measures to reduce the capacity of flight operations and administration long term.


They are writing off serveral planes and Germanwings will be shut down for good.

https://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/eng ... a5d5b2c0d3
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:41 pm

bravotango75 wrote:
I suspect that any new routes will be on hold well into next year, especially to smaller markets like SAN or SEA. If any new int'l routes are started to the US will the proven mainstays like JFK (possibly EWR), LAX, SFO, MIA, ORD, and IAD.


I think EWR and JFK will be a close call. Prior to this I would have fully believed they would have committed to JFK because of their stake in Terminal 1. Once the LH group consolidated ops. to EWR I was quite shocked. I think LH and LX will continue to serve both while OS and EW will lean towards EWR.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:27 pm

asr0dzjq wrote:
In the midst of the (entirely preventable) coronavirus pandemic.


?! How exactly is a novel virus that, by definition, hasn't been seen before "preventable"?
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:38 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
bravotango75 wrote:
I suspect that any new routes will be on hold well into next year, especially to smaller markets like SAN or SEA. If any new int'l routes are started to the US will the proven mainstays like JFK (possibly EWR), LAX, SFO, MIA, ORD, and IAD.


I think EWR and JFK will be a close call. Prior to this I would have fully believed they would have committed to JFK because of their stake in Terminal 1. Once the LH group consolidated ops. to EWR I was quite shocked. I think LH and LX will continue to serve both while OS and EW will lean towards EWR.



The consolidation to EWR was most likely because of the UA hub. LH Group had to cancel the majority of US flights so they could just reroute that traffic through EWR on UA. Same reason they continued to fly to ORD. Also, much easier to move pax from a cancelled JFK (where majority of passengers are ending journeys) flight to an EWR one than the other way around. I wouldn't be surprised for OS and EW to also resume JFK.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:54 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
bravotango75 wrote:
I suspect that any new routes will be on hold well into next year, especially to smaller markets like SAN or SEA. If any new int'l routes are started to the US will the proven mainstays like JFK (possibly EWR), LAX, SFO, MIA, ORD, and IAD.


I think EWR and JFK will be a close call. Prior to this I would have fully believed they would have committed to JFK because of their stake in Terminal 1. Once the LH group consolidated ops. to EWR I was quite shocked. I think LH and LX will continue to serve both while OS and EW will lean towards EWR.



The consolidation to EWR was most likely because of the UA hub. LH Group had to cancel the majority of US flights so they could just reroute that traffic through EWR on UA. Same reason they continued to fly to ORD. Also, much easier to move pax from a cancelled JFK (where majority of passengers are ending journeys) flight to an EWR one than the other way around. I wouldn't be surprised for OS and EW to also resume JFK.


EWR has a much higher O&D % than JFK...
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:07 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
asr0dzjq wrote:
In the midst of the (entirely preventable) coronavirus pandemic.


?! How exactly is a novel virus that, by definition, hasn't been seen before "preventable"?


It was definitely not preventable. Healthcare is my field. The vectors for influenza are avian, human, and swine. The virus mutates very readily between those three vectors. Hence the reason it is called seasonal flu.

To assume any new mutation of flu is preventable is false. If your attempt is to make a political statement it falls flat. Let's stick to aviation.
Last edited by ElroyJetson on Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
707 717 727 72S 737 733 737-700 747 757 753 767-300 764 A319 A320 DC-9-10 DC-9-30 DC-9-50, MD-82 MD-88 MD-90 DC-10-10 DC-10-40 F-100
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:08 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

I think EWR and JFK will be a close call. Prior to this I would have fully believed they would have committed to JFK because of their stake in Terminal 1. Once the LH group consolidated ops. to EWR I was quite shocked. I think LH and LX will continue to serve both while OS and EW will lean towards EWR.



The consolidation to EWR was most likely because of the UA hub. LH Group had to cancel the majority of US flights so they could just reroute that traffic through EWR on UA. Same reason they continued to fly to ORD. Also, much easier to move pax from a cancelled JFK (where majority of passengers are ending journeys) flight to an EWR one than the other way around. I wouldn't be surprised for OS and EW to also resume JFK.


EWR has a much higher O&D % than JFK...


Really I always thought Sis’s and LH served EWR for UA’s connections. What connections are there in JFK? I would be shocked if EWR had a higher O&D for LH than JFK
 
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BA744PHX
Posts: 290
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:17 pm

It looks like EW FRA-PHX-FRA is still scheduled for June 1st. All other long haul routes announced for 2020 seemed to be pulled
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:22 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:


The consolidation to EWR was most likely because of the UA hub. LH Group had to cancel the majority of US flights so they could just reroute that traffic through EWR on UA. Same reason they continued to fly to ORD. Also, much easier to move pax from a cancelled JFK (where majority of passengers are ending journeys) flight to an EWR one than the other way around. I wouldn't be surprised for OS and EW to also resume JFK.


EWR has a much higher O&D % than JFK...


Really I always thought Sis’s and LH served EWR for UA’s connections. What connections are there in JFK? I would be shocked if EWR had a higher O&D for LH than JFK


Not sure for LH only but DL and other rely heavily on connections.
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:06 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

I think EWR and JFK will be a close call. Prior to this I would have fully believed they would have committed to JFK because of their stake in Terminal 1. Once the LH group consolidated ops. to EWR I was quite shocked. I think LH and LX will continue to serve both while OS and EW will lean towards EWR.



The consolidation to EWR was most likely because of the UA hub. LH Group had to cancel the majority of US flights so they could just reroute that traffic through EWR on UA. Same reason they continued to fly to ORD. Also, much easier to move pax from a cancelled JFK (where majority of passengers are ending journeys) flight to an EWR one than the other way around. I wouldn't be surprised for OS and EW to also resume JFK.


EWR has a much higher O&D % than JFK...


That's just not true.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

EWR has a much higher O&D % than JFK...


Really I always thought Sis’s and LH served EWR for UA’s connections. What connections are there in JFK? I would be shocked if EWR had a higher O&D for LH than JFK


Not sure for LH only but DL and other rely heavily on connections.


Not sure what DL has to do with anything since we are talking about LH. Of course DL would rely more heavily on connections at its hub. Not only does EWR have lower O&D than JFK in general, it certainly does certainly for LH, LX, and OS. But like I said if you need to consolidate operations to one airport it makes sense to do that at the airport with your partner's hub to flow onward connections - hence why EWR becomes the preferred gateway at the moment.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:20 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:


The consolidation to EWR was most likely because of the UA hub. LH Group had to cancel the majority of US flights so they could just reroute that traffic through EWR on UA. Same reason they continued to fly to ORD. Also, much easier to move pax from a cancelled JFK (where majority of passengers are ending journeys) flight to an EWR one than the other way around. I wouldn't be surprised for OS and EW to also resume JFK.


EWR has a much higher O&D % than JFK...


That's just not true.

EWR has a % of 75% and JFK is only 65%. I have the facts so I’m not sure how you can tell me it’s not true.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

Really I always thought Sis’s and LH served EWR for UA’s connections. What connections are there in JFK? I would be shocked if EWR had a higher O&D for LH than JFK


Not sure for LH only but DL and other rely heavily on connections.


Not sure what DL has to do with anything since we are talking about LH. Of course DL would rely more heavily on connections at its hub. Not only does EWR have lower O&D than JFK in general, it certainly does certainly for LH, LX, and OS. But like I said if you need to consolidate operations to one airport it makes sense to do that at the airport with your partner's hub to flow onward connections - hence why EWR becomes the preferred gateway at the moment.


You should probably fact check before building an argument.
 
DenverTed
Posts: 468
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Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:42 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
asr0dzjq wrote:
In the midst of the (entirely preventable) coronavirus pandemic.


?! How exactly is a novel virus that, by definition, hasn't been seen before "preventable"?


It was definitely not preventable. Healthcare is my field. The vectors for influenza are avian, human, and swine. The virus mutates very readily between those three vectors. Hence the reason it is called seasonal flu.

To assume any new mutation of flu is preventable is false. If your attempt is to make a political statement it falls flat. Let's stick to aviation.

Yes, the four seasons, winter, bird, human, and pig.
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:23 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

EWR has a much higher O&D % than JFK...


That's just not true.

EWR has a % of 75% and JFK is only 65%. I have the facts so I’m not sure how you can tell me it’s not true.

Nicknuzzii wrote:

Not sure for LH only but DL and other rely heavily on connections.


Not sure what DL has to do with anything since we are talking about LH. Of course DL would rely more heavily on connections at its hub. Not only does EWR have lower O&D than JFK in general, it certainly does certainly for LH, LX, and OS. But like I said if you need to consolidate operations to one airport it makes sense to do that at the airport with your partner's hub to flow onward connections - hence why EWR becomes the preferred gateway at the moment.


You should probably fact check before building an argument.


https://orlandoairports.net/site/upload ... anking.pdf

Percentage of O&D passengers from June 2018 to June 2019:

JFK - 83%
EWR - 79.7%

Number of O&D Passengers June 2018 to June 2019:
JFK - 26 million
EWR - 18.3 million

This is according to the DOT information (and common sense really). What's your source?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 905
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:25 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:

That's just not true.

EWR has a % of 75% and JFK is only 65%. I have the facts so I’m not sure how you can tell me it’s not true.



Not sure what DL has to do with anything since we are talking about LH. Of course DL would rely more heavily on connections at its hub. Not only does EWR have lower O&D than JFK in general, it certainly does certainly for LH, LX, and OS. But like I said if you need to consolidate operations to one airport it makes sense to do that at the airport with your partner's hub to flow onward connections - hence why EWR becomes the preferred gateway at the moment.


You should probably fact check before building an argument.


https://orlandoairports.net/site/upload ... anking.pdf

Percentage of O&D passengers from June 2018 to June 2019:

JFK - 83%
EWR - 79.7%

Number of O&D Passengers June 2018 to June 2019:
JFK - 26 million
EWR - 18.3 million

This is according to the DOT information (and common sense really). What's your source?


My source is from the PANYNJ, the one who actually runs the airport. https://www.panynj.gov/airports/en/stat ... nfo.htmlOh

Your source is based solely off enplanements so it doesn’t capture the whole market.
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2196
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:32 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
asr0dzjq wrote:
In the midst of the (entirely preventable) coronavirus pandemic.


?! How exactly is a novel virus that, by definition, hasn't been seen before "preventable"?


It was definitely not preventable. Healthcare is my field. The vectors for influenza are avian, human, and swine. The virus mutates very readily between those three vectors. Hence the reason it is called seasonal flu.

To assume any new mutation of flu is preventable is false. If your attempt is to make a political statement it falls flat. Let's stick to aviation.


I was attempting no such thing. My answer was scientific, not political.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: New Lufthansa flights to Seattle and San Diego

Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:18 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
It looks like EW FRA-PHX-FRA is still scheduled for June 1st. All other long haul routes announced for 2020 seemed to be pulled


Still seeing EW's FRA-YYC as scheduled from June 1 too.

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