Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
 
A330Inter
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:59 pm

Re: Etihad Airways Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:14 pm

transportgeek wrote:
A330Inter wrote:
Correct but it also doesn't need to lose 1bn a year.
Stop the connecting crap, EK does it much better, reduce the fleet and serve the local market. Marinas and Theme parks don't live off the passengers traveling from America/Europe to Asia/Pacific


Except the local market at AUH is tiny. Passenger numbers for local traffic in 2019 were on par with places like Milwaukee (MKE), Christchurch (CHC) and Durban (DUR). If you just focus on local traffic you May as well get rid of the wide body fleet and focus just on regional flying around the Middle East.


If they want to make money or let's say just self sustain, a smaller fleet is probably required, absolutely.
But local traffic is not just regional, indeed let it be flown on Air Arabia type of airline, to India, GCC, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt.
I think a large proportion of (the small) AUH traffic though is long-haul, their 787 fleet is well sized to serve the major European and Asian capitals once a day, no more. But I don't think they need 2 daily Frankfurt, Manchester, Rome, and so on, to feed Bangkok, Phuket, Sydney and Melbourne.
 
myki
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Etihad Airways Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:25 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
I don't think Etihad will ever be shut down or merged into Emirates.

Correct. Keep separate brands, different markets. Think Proctor and Gamble who own the Head and Shoulders shampoo brand, along with Pantene shampoo brand. Back of house, all the same.

Closer to aviation, you have:
Singapore Airlines, Silk Air and Scoot
Qantas and Jetstar
etc.

And for EK/EY, who says it isn't happening already? For example: https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/ ... 1.61229737
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20332
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Etihad Airways Future

Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:43 pm

A330Inter wrote:
transportgeek wrote:
A330Inter wrote:
Correct but it also doesn't need to lose 1bn a year.
Stop the connecting crap, EK does it much better, reduce the fleet and serve the local market. Marinas and Theme parks don't live off the passengers traveling from America/Europe to Asia/Pacific


Except the local market at AUH is tiny. Passenger numbers for local traffic in 2019 were on par with places like Milwaukee (MKE), Christchurch (CHC) and Durban (DUR). If you just focus on local traffic you May as well get rid of the wide body fleet and focus just on regional flying around the Middle East.


If they want to make money or let's say just self sustain, a smaller fleet is probably required, absolutely.
But local traffic is not just regional, indeed let it be flown on Air Arabia type of airline, to India, GCC, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt.
I think a large proportion of (the small) AUH traffic though is long-haul, their 787 fleet is well sized to serve the major European and Asian capitals once a day, no more. But I don't think they need 2 daily Frankfurt, Manchester, Rome, and so on, to feed Bangkok, Phuket, Sydney and Melbourne.

The problem for EY is all their widebody traffic is sustained by connections. EK has several advantage:
1. Brand recognition
2. Connections, EK almost can connect every to everywhere
3. Dubai has far higher O&D.
4. EK's freight arm feeds more cargo to widebodies and vice versa.

EY doesn't have scale.

What EY brings to a merger:
1. EU, China, and India bilateral rights seperate from Dubai's.
2. The apartment, which I think a merged airline could sell.
3. TSA checkin to USA


The reality is, EY has cost billions to grow to the current scale, but without scale is done. We now have Turkish (TK) and their amazing new airport as well as Ethiopian to compete with as well as EK and QR. In a 5 way race, there will be 2 or 3 losers. I personally would not bet against EK or TK.

EY is in trouble. Either merge or spend billions Abu Dhabi shouldn't waste with oil so cheap. There is no way Abu Dhabi doesn't have to sell assets to sustain the nation. How much can hey afford to waste on EY? Not much in 2020.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
SSPhoenix
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:53 pm

Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:55 pm

Hi there,

Hope you are all keeping safe and well.

With the ongoing covid-19 crisis, it seems the aviation industry keeps finding itself in a deeper quandary than ever. A reduction in traffic is an understatement, and I was wondering what are your thoughts on the imminent Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal?

The most recent news only goes back to December 2019,with reports saying its 97 percent ready and that trials were under way, source:

https://gulfnews.com/business/abu-dhabi ... 1.68094147

However, with Etihads recent report on further losses, albeit reduced from previous years, and the added effect of it taking months to rebuild traffic from the current situation - does it mean the midfield terminal opening will be delayed?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Cheers,

J
We are made of Stars ...
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:38 pm

Completion of a project has nothing to do with the economy.

There is no advantage to only doing half of a project. Either you do it or you don't.

Once you start a project, you will lose only if you don't finish it.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
lalib
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:48 am

Unfortunately this airport will not go as planned.

Due to the current crisis EK is gonna need a major bailout from AUH Govt.

I have feeling this will pan out like this.

DWC - Terminal 1 EK, Terminal 2 EY.

Genius I know!

On a serious note, AUH is 70 kms away from DWC. EY is a much smaller airline with less connectivity. I've flown EY many times but like most people I would choose EK over EY.

In the interests of expanding both cities development of DWC would have been win win for both.
 
myki
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:11 am

lalib wrote:
In the interests of expanding both cities development of DWC would have been win win for both.

Pride gets in the way. These emirates (basically, states) are not as united as they have us believe. It is almost like they do their own thing, but by chance if they happen to align, then they can say that was the plan. Case in point - Dubai emirate in total lockdown now with permit required to leave the house, Abu Dhabi emirate is just a recommendation to stay inside.

So to have Abu Dhabi government admit that AUH is a failure, and to have EY fly from DWC, allowing for greater connectivity with FZ, EK, and other partners? No chance. At least moving EK and FZ to DWC is in the same emirate so no egg on face for Dubai government.

My $0.02
 
lalib
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:48 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:34 am

Hi myki. Agree with everything you said.

Going back to 2009 when Dxb asked AUH for a bailout. AUH asked for EK shares or Burj Khalifa.

Instead AUH should have asked for majority shareholding in DWC on the basis that EK ops will move in 2020. AUH could have timed EY growth not spent money on midfield and would have eventually owned DWC that would have expanded their own city.

I've lived in AUH where DWC.

We all knew that airports in this region so close together is unworkable.
 
myki
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:38 am

Do you mean Dubai government asked Abu Dhabi government for a bailout, or was it DXB that needed the bailout from AUH? Maybe there is confusion between your use of airport codes when you mean the government of that city ... or I am the one confused here haha.
 
directorguy
Posts: 1403
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:58 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:51 am

It would take the better part of a decade to finish at least two at large terminals at DWC, not to mention the necessary infrastructure (highways, rail etc) to transport passengers and the thousands of staff who would need to commute daily.

Not to mention the adjacent residential communities around the airport would need to be ready. And for what? DWC is pretty far from downtown Dubai and Abu Dhabi city and even worse for the Northern Emirates. If you were to shutter DWC and AUH completely then you would need to move over all the other airlines and build even more terminals.

At that point I would prefer to use SHJ as a gateway to Dubai. Now wouldn’t that be ironic.

All this will need to happen by 2030 and in the meantime we could see recessions, wars, leadership changes in the UAE, not to mention new aircraft technologies that could shift air travel patterns away from the ME3.
 
aeropix
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:08 pm

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:29 am

Perspective from someone who lives here: both airports are needed and nothing to do with "pride". The DXB / AUH airports are 130km / 80miles apart. Thats 90 minutes with no traffic, and more with "normal" traffic. Both cities have large, high density, high income populations. Residents of both cities do not want to drive / bus 1 hour out to DWC for their flights in this case both cities residents add considerable travel time - much more so for Abu Dhabi the nation's Capitol.

Look at the example of DFW that was supposed to serve both cities, Dallasites did not want to shutter their former airport and it coexists nicely in that space. Similarly we see today Tokyo residents rejecting Narita with the resurgence of Haneda.

Talking some USA examples: San Diego and Los Angeles coexist, nobody is shutting down wither airport. Orlando and Tampa, Miami and Ft. Lauderdale, San Francisco Bay area, (SJC OAK SFO), New York area etc. Nobody wants to drive an hour or more to an airport when there's an existing one close by. So this fantasy of closing AUH and DXB in favor of Maktoum is just that.

It's an idea that looks good on paper to people who don't actually live there.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8828
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:12 am

Proximity between DXB and AUH is irrelevant. Two thirds of their traffic is transit pax. They are competing with not only each other but also IST and DOH. Are Turkish Airlines moving to DWC as well?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Toinou
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:21 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:38 am

aeropix wrote:
Perspective from someone who lives here: both airports are needed and nothing to do with "pride". The DXB / AUH airports are 130km / 80miles apart. Thats 90 minutes with no traffic, and more with "normal" traffic. Both cities have large, high density, high income populations. Residents of both cities do not want to drive / bus 1 hour out to DWC for their flights in this case both cities residents add considerable travel time - much more so for Abu Dhabi the nation's Capitol.

Look at the example of DFW that was supposed to serve both cities, Dallasites did not want to shutter their former airport and it coexists nicely in that space. Similarly we see today Tokyo residents rejecting Narita with the resurgence of Haneda.

Talking some USA examples: San Diego and Los Angeles coexist, nobody is shutting down wither airport. Orlando and Tampa, Miami and Ft. Lauderdale, San Francisco Bay area, (SJC OAK SFO), New York area etc. Nobody wants to drive an hour or more to an airport when there's an existing one close by. So this fantasy of closing AUH and DXB in favor of Maktoum is just that.

It's an idea that looks good on paper to people who don't actually live there.


Not all your examples are good. Most of them have a much larger population than Dubai and Abu Dhabi combined. DFW maybe the closer you have.
Still, I see two important aspects to take into account.
I get the fact that those two cities can have airports catering there own need, this is not so surprising. But in reality, those airports are not there to cater to local demand, this is almost an added benefit. The purpose of this mega-constructions is to build hubs.
And this is what is surprising: the fact to want to build to major hubs so close to each other. This is the unique aspect of this place and the aspect that is playing more we ego and political considerations than with facts.

If I were to tell you that two cities, one with over three million people and the other with about half that, 130 km appart, were to have separate airports for local traffic, probably most people would say that it would be easier to have just one but more practical for each to have one. If I was then to tell you that each of this cities had to have a world-class hub, to would call me crazy. This is the problem here: we are talking about two different problems that may well not have the same solution.
 
SSPhoenix
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:53 pm

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:43 am

Thanks for your thoughts all, very interesting points.

So it seems its a tug of war between either (I) consolidation of traffic, airlines, infrastructure, etc OR (II) further specialisation of EY catered for the AUH market and EK continues to be the world's connector - not that EY is small in terms of volume but it seems they need to make up their mind if they want to be a boutique carrier eg Oman Air or not.

it'll be a shame if the midfield terminal ends up as another white elephant - let's face it DWC is one IMHO, even if the Dubai Emirate says its thinking strategically (20 years to the future planning from inception).

There was (is?) talk of a hyperloop being developed to connect the coastal chain of cities in the UAE, but am not sure where that's gone - I but find a credible source talking about it (most are just sites expending hot air).
We are made of Stars ...
 
UAEflyer
Posts: 1265
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:29 pm

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:14 am

AUH midfield is 100% completed and tested, but unfortunately they are not lucky with the time, contractors, service providers...etc. But all in all the UAE in general is considered one of the richest nations in the world and a hub for multinational companies in the region. Opening the terminal is now on the owners hand, which most likely not at such circumstances.
Just to remind everyone that UAE is in the top 5 richest countries in the world with a proven reserves of almost 100 billion crude oil / barrel. Further more ADIA fund is estimated $700 billions in assets and ICD $200+ billion, plus other funds with all combined $1 trillion +.
So the bailout talks, out of cash, and other nonsense doesn’t seem to work in Abu Dhabi, Dubai or UAE in general. No matter what results Etihad performed , the owners will never allow it to go out of business or will seek cash for it, UAE laying on a bottomless cash.
 
User avatar
3rdGen
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:19 pm

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:27 am

The fact is that Etihad has failed. That's the major issue here. The airport was built to be the hub for a major international airline that would be 200+ planes strong and flying passengers all around the world. The present CEO came out and said that they don't have those plans any more and they would be an airline focusing solely on taking passengers to and from Abu Dhabi. For those purposes the airport is too big. That is precisely why we've heard of two low cost airlines (Air Arabia, Wizz Air) opening up joint ventures with the Abu Dhabi government at AUH. It's obvious that they're now trying to find ways to fill the space at the new terminal.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20332
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:10 pm

directorguy wrote:
It would take the better part of a decade to finish at least two at large terminals at DWC, not to mention the necessary infrastructure (highways, rail etc) to transport passengers and the thousands of staff who would need to commute daily.

Not to mention the adjacent residential communities around the airport would need to be ready. And for what? DWC is pretty far from downtown Dubai and Abu Dhabi city and even worse for the Northern Emirates. If you were to shutter DWC and AUH completely then you would need to move over all the other airlines and build even more terminals.

At that point I would prefer to use SHJ as a gateway to Dubai. Now wouldn’t that be ironic.

All this will need to happen by 2030 and in the meantime we could see recessions, wars, leadership changes in the UAE, not to mention new aircraft technologies that could shift air travel patterns away from the ME3.

I'm as concerned with bilateral rights and where the money is coming from.

That and the oil processing facility. As bilateral rights are by Emirate (Germany, India, China), EY cannot fly in/out of Dubai, they must fly from Abu Dhabi land.


Serious question, where is Abu Dhabi getting the money? Abu Dhabi needs oil at a staggering $95/bbl.

https://www.thenational.ae/business/abu ... t-1.299293

"Gradual fiscal consolidation though on-budget capital expenditure rationalisation and normalisation of support extended in the emirate has been bringing down the Abu Dhabi central government fiscal oil break-even price to below $100 per barrel,"

Government largesse runs Abu Dhabi. I'm not seeing the budget to save EY, save EK, build up DXB, build train or roads to DXB, and fund opperations of the city of Abu Dhabi unless oil spikes in price.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
Toinou
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:21 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:22 pm

I'm wondering about those bilaterals. Is it a rule that there are negotiated separately for each emirate or are there UAE-wide agreements in some cases?
 
User avatar
chunhimlai
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:20 pm

They can connect DWC to dubai/abu dhabi/other gulf emirates with rail sytem under construction

Image
 
whatThe
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:39 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Serious question, where is Abu Dhabi getting the money? Abu Dhabi needs oil at a staggering $95/bbl.

https://www.thenational.ae/business/abu ... t-1.299293

"Gradual fiscal consolidation though on-budget capital expenditure rationalisation and normalisation of support extended in the emirate has been bringing down the Abu Dhabi central government fiscal oil break-even price to below $100 per barrel,"

Government largesse runs Abu Dhabi. I'm not seeing the budget to save EY, save EK, build up DXB, build train or roads to DXB, and fund opperations of the city of Abu Dhabi unless oil spikes in price.

Lightsaber


Abu Dhabi may need ~$100 oil to breakeven on its annual budget, but it has a lot of money in savings that it can draw on for various purposes. This money is the accumulated oil wealth over the last 50+ years and has been invested in various financial assets (some more liquid than others).

For reference, the main savings vehicle is the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority (ADIA) which has about $700 billion in assets invested in mostly public market investments and is the third largest sovereign wealth fund in the world. Then there's Mubadala which owns businesses around the world and has about $230 billion in assets.

There's about 550,000 citizens in Abu Dhabi (as opposed to expats) so that's somewhere in the range of $1.8-$2.0 million per citizen, ignoring any future earnings from the oil. So they've got some money that they can spend on supporting the airline (and other projects) if they chose to do so, setting aside whether or not it makes sense to do so.
 
Toinou
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:21 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:10 pm

Etihad rail is not really a solution at the moment or for many years to come. Only phase 1 is in service and is mostly (if not only) catering a very specific need: transporting sulphur. Even phase 2 and 3 are almost only aimed at cargo transport. I don't know if the lines in development are placed in order to be very useful for passenger transport.
An added problem would be that mixed traffic lines are creating difficulties: both traffic has very different needs in terms of frequency, speed, train length... A line connecting both cities with a common airport would need to be running at a rather high speed and with a high frequency and that does not mix efficiently with heavy freight trains.

So this might be a solution but only in a long term approach I guess.
 
carlokiii
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:26 pm

I think it’s interesting how the topic jumped from being about the AUH Midfield to DWC / consolidation of EK and EY / UAE Rail / etc. :rotfl:

Would love to see actual interior pictures of the new Midfield terminal soon. The outside has looked finished for a while now. I have always thought that AUH’s existing terminal was a bit small for its purpose so I have been quite excited to see the new terminal open.
 
User avatar
jsnww81
Posts: 2541
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:50 pm

Wasn't the midfield terminal supposed to open three years ago or something like that? I last flew through AUH in 2015 and construction was well advanced then - I know there have been some well-publicized delays, but at this point I'm unclear what's been holding this up for so long.

Etihad is going to look more like Gulf Air than EK/QR when all of this is said and done - so yes, the midfield complex is probably far bigger than AUH actually needs - but the existing terminals are still nothing to write home about.
 
myki
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:14 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
Wasn't the midfield terminal supposed to open three years ago or something like that?

07.07.2017 at 0700

Not sure on the signifigance of the 7 though, perhaps something in local culture?
 
UAEflyer
Posts: 1265
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:29 pm

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:18 pm

myki wrote:
jsnww81 wrote:
Wasn't the midfield terminal supposed to open three years ago or something like that?

07.07.2017 at 0700

Not sure on the signifigance of the 7 though, perhaps something in local culture?

7 represent the seven Emirates which makes the UAE.
 
directorguy
Posts: 1403
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:58 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:33 pm

The various rail projects that have been promised are unlikely to materialize. High speed rail is expensive to build (I think roughly costs $10 million per km) and most optimal when running along high-density corridors, not between sparsely populated statelets on the Persian Gulf.

The AUH Midfield terminal, when it finally opens, will be too late. The project is so far advanced (more or less almost finished) so obviously they can't cancel it. We have no idea how long the COVID-19 lockdowns will last, and in what way shape or form air travel will resume. It will be very staggered, with various restrictions in place. It might be the middle of the decade before we see pre-COVID numbers again. If the Midfield Terminal opens during the immediate post-COVID phase, then operations will be in a disarray as EY will not be flyng their entire network. If they wait a few years until things are back to normal, then EY will be a much, much, smaller airline.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20332
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:06 am

The most information I could find is that Terminal 2 is closed and they are using T1 until the midfield opens, but no date given:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/abu-dhab ... 46819.html

Opening a new terminal during reduced flights is a great way to test it. But then again, probably cheaper to keep it mothballed until needed.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
sand26391
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Abu Dhabi Midfield Terminal Opening?

Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:41 am

Any pictures of the interiors??
 
asuflyer
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Etihad lands at TLV for the first time

Tue May 19, 2020 9:04 pm

An all white Etihad A330 chartered by UAE AID landed at TLV bringing supplies for Palestine. The Israeli and Emirati governments worked together to make this flight possible. This is the first time an Etihad aircraft has landed in Israel.

Image

https://twitter.com/JackyHugi/status/12 ... 4638013448

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-isra ... SKBN22V2R8
 
rampbro
Posts: 546
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 am

Re: Etihad lands at TLV for the first time

Tue May 19, 2020 10:42 pm

Sometimes humanity wins out, even in the most challenging conditions.

Side note: I would have been mercilessly upbraided by my lead for looking at my phone on a ramp. This was 10+ years ago though - has that changed, or is the gentleman in the photo in for a ride?
 
debonair
Posts: 3865
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Etihad lands at TLV for the first time

Tue May 19, 2020 11:03 pm

rampbro wrote:
Sometimes humanity wins out, even in the most challenging conditions.


True! But I am curious to know, if the ETIHAD titles were removed especially for this flight due to the conflict?
 
NozPerry
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:12 am

Re: Etihad lands at TLV for the first time

Tue May 19, 2020 11:22 pm

debonair wrote:
True! But I am curious to know, if the ETIHAD titles were removed especially for this flight due to the conflict?


From what I can see online it was painted White with Saudia decals when it was leased to them last year and was subsequently stored.
I love the feel of a Go Around in the morning
 
Noise
Posts: 2469
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Re: Etihad lands at TLV for the first time

Tue May 19, 2020 11:44 pm

Israel and UAE ties are relatively strong, yet covert. I am not at all surprised and I am very happy to see this :)
 
smi0006
Posts: 2575
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Etihad lands at TLV for the first time

Tue May 19, 2020 11:44 pm

Brilliant to see a bit a little bit of humanity and coordination to ease suffering if only that’s what comes out of this mess,
rampbro wrote:
Sometimes humanity wins out,
even in the most challenging conditions.

Side note: I would have been mercilessly upbraided by my lead for looking at my phone on a ramp. This was 10+ years ago though - has that changed, or is the gentleman in the photo in for a ride?

Lots of Loading reports are now viewable on devices, along with electronic LIR readback, perhaps it’s simply his duty phone?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2959
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 5:54 pm

Along with Etihad planning to lay of 1,200 employees, the airline is also considering a future without its A380s and the A350-1000s it never operated.

Etihad may retire its 10 A380s early with them potentially never returning to service after the virus outbreak grounded the airline’s passenger flights in March, the sources said. Etihad is also considering whether to operate the A350-1000, the sources said. They said the airline was expected to make a decision on the fate of the two Airbus wide-bodies soon.


https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL8N2D34WD

So in the past week:
- Emirates rumored to retire 40% of A380 fleet
- Emirates in talks to cancel 5 A380 orders
- Air France retires entire fleet
- Lufthansa slashes A380 flights from Frankfurt.

Possibly the worst ever week for the A380?
 
User avatar
GEUltraFan9XGTF
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:31 pm

Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:16 pm

Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.
© 2020. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
Jefford717
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:36 pm

Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:29 pm

Understandable. Why add another type of aircraft in your fleet when demand isn’t there?

Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?
 
mxaxai
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:34 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Maybe scrap for spare parts? Store indefinitely in a nice dry place? Not many other customers for the -1000.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5042
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:40 pm

without the A380's? EK the US# will need uplift in the future to replace the A380 which was overkill in the extreme, Now? they need to operate like a REAL Airline, And having said that? They'll need to operate on a basis like Singapore Airlines ( in my opinion) A GREAT product at a good price. Everything on Par with the best.
but Maybe? Just a cut above to stand out in service. And I'm not saying they didn't have good service. But since you can get nearly anywhere without going through the middle East? They Need to stand OUT, And modeling SQ? Is a damn good way to do it! Hell! It might cause the US3 to step up their "game" a little.
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5639
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:44 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
Understandable. Why add another type of aircraft in your fleet when demand isn’t there?

Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Travel IS going to recover, the question is when. With A380s and 747s gone there will be a place for the A3510 and the 779, and 5 shiny new A3510s will find a home somewhere. Meanwhile hordes of lawyers will find gainful if not productive employment fighting over their fate.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
User avatar
FrenchPotatoEye
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:20 pm

Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:46 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Etihad already cancal most of that ordeer
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 779
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:48 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Etihad already cancal most of that ordeer


No they haven’t. According to Boeing’s books they are still on order.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2959
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 6:50 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Etihad already cancal most of that ordeer


No they haven’t. According to Boeing’s books they are still on order.


I believe they reduced it from 25 orders to something much smaller? Or is Boeing still displaying 25?
 
ewt340
Posts: 1275
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:00 pm

I really hope they kept A350-1000. But in reality, it would be best if they stick with all the B787 they got. I even doubt the usefulness of B777-300ER for them at this point. The A321neo and B787 seems to be quite good for them moving forwards.

Heck, they might even wanna consider canceling all their weird 6 orders for B777X and convert some of their B787-10 to smaller -8 and -9 at this time around. Just to make sure they could fill all their seats after the pandemic.
Last edited by ewt340 on Thu May 21, 2020 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10738
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:00 pm

mxaxai wrote:
Jefford717 wrote:
Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Maybe scrap for spare parts? Store indefinitely in a nice dry place? Not many other customers for the -1000.

EY would just store them until they can find a buyer. They won’t be scrapped. Eventually someone will take brand new -1000s.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 679
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:02 pm

ewt340 wrote:
I really hope they kept A350-1000. But in reality, it would be best if they stick with all the B787 they got.

Heck, they might want to consider canceling all their B777X and convert some of their B787-10 to smaller -8 and -9 at this time around. Just to make sure they could fill all their seats after the pandemic.


Yes I hope they can keep the A35K too. At least if A380 is gone, EY can use A35K exclusively for LHR and SIN alike.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2535
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:04 pm

SEPilot wrote:
Jefford717 wrote:
Understandable. Why add another type of aircraft in your fleet when demand isn’t there?

Any idea what’s going to happen to the 5 A350-1000 that are already built but never put to service?

Travel IS going to recover, the question is when. With A380s and 747s gone there will be a place for the A3510 and the 779, and 5 shiny new A3510s will find a home somewhere. Meanwhile hordes of lawyers will find gainful if not productive employment fighting over their fate.


I could see CX taking them eventually.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
9Patch
Posts: 584
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:06 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Doesn't bode well for the A350-1000 either.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5042
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:16 pm

9Patch wrote:
GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Doesn't bode well for the 77X either.


Doesn't bode well for the A350-1000 either.

In the midst of Covid -19 Nothing looks good. But? this will not go on Forever. So? Airliner development needs to continue.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7371
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Rumor: Etihad Considers Retiring A380s and Abandoning A350s

Thu May 21, 2020 7:26 pm

Maybe SAA could use them, the Business Rescue Practicineers could leave an A350 legacy at SAA instead of all the A340 SAA currently has.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos