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LAXintl
Posts: 24812
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue May 26, 2020 6:55 pm

Ben Smith already agreed to defer half of his base salary and take it in future stock.

He also agreed to give up his 2020 bonuses
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKCN2252AC

And yes he took a big hair cut pay wise- His Air France base salary is €900,000 vs equivalent of €2.7mil at AC.

I also don't have issues with him receiving a bonus for 2019 if he achieved the agreed upon targets in his contract.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mercure1
Posts: 4886
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue May 26, 2020 7:11 pm

Per AFKL Ben Smith, overall domestic France network which losing €200mil annually will become 40% smaller. Domestic lines ORY-BOD, LYS, NTE to be dropped as a commitment to push traffic to rail service on routes under 2:30 travel time, though AF will keep its La Navette (shuttle) service in key markets Marseille, Nice and Toulouse.

Per Hop! CEO that it will stop service at ORY. Will concentrate on hubs at CDG and LYS starting in 2021.

They are also discussions with SNPL pilot union to utilize Transavia on the domestic network which they are currently forbidden to operate.

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 48644.html
https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 48700.html
mercure f-wtcc
 
Jetty
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue May 26, 2020 9:02 pm

Eikie wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
I have no problem with Ben Smith getting money. When he came to AFKL he actually took a paycut, but was promised subsequent remuneration including ones based on performance targets.
Its important leadership is well compensated as good talent will be lost otherwise. Everything should be done to keep him on board during these critical junction.



I would have agreed with you if 2020 had been an ordinary year. But now with a global pandemic, airliners going bankrupt or getting saved with huge amounts of taxpayer money i don't agree with you. The man earns a lot of money already, and it would have been a very nice gesture if he would have said "Hey, I might have earned my bonus but because of the huge crisis we are facing I am saying no to it."
Besides that, (KLM) employees have had their profit share over 2019 postponed with a big chance it will be cancelled.
Great example of the big boss gets his, but everybody else can kiss it goodbye.

He already was massively unpopular on the Dutch side, I guess it will not improve quickly.

KL CEO Elbers also waved his bonus. Bad decision by Smith to take it imo, and very unlike the spirit in the Dutch part of the company.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue May 26, 2020 9:08 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Ben Smith already agreed to defer half of his base salary and take it in future stock.

He also agreed to give up his 2020 bonuses
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKCN2252AC

And yes he took a big hair cut pay wise- His Air France base salary is €900,000 vs equivalent of €2.7mil at AC.

I also don't have issues with him receiving a bonus for 2019 if he achieved the agreed upon targets in his contract.



Oh no! 900.000 in stead of 2.7 million?! The poor guy! :cry2:

The average Dutch person only has to work 26 years to earn 900.000 euros.

Sorry, but I am too Dutch to feel any sympathy for Smith during these horrible times.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue May 26, 2020 9:42 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Ben Smith already agreed to defer half of his base salary and take it in future stock.

He also agreed to give up his 2020 bonuses
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKCN2252AC

And yes he took a big hair cut pay wise- His Air France base salary is €900,000 vs equivalent of €2.7mil at AC.

I also don't have issues with him receiving a bonus for 2019 if he achieved the agreed upon targets in his contract.



Oh no! 900.000 in stead of 2.7 million?! The poor guy! :cry2:

The average Dutch person only has to work 26 years to earn 900.000 euros.

Sorry, but I am too Dutch to feel any sympathy for Smith during these horrible times.


You forgot to add the bonus of ~768.000 !
I`m not Dutch but 100% agree with you ! Shameless guy !
 
Jetty
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue May 26, 2020 9:50 pm

I’m curious, maybe someone French on this forum can explain me: why did the French government want to pay this bonus? I know France to be much more socialist than The Netherlands so it is surprising to me. Isn’t this an issue among the unions and members of parliament?
 
FGITD
Posts: 1111
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 2:30 am

The bonus was for 2019. Both Smith and Elbers waived their 2020 bonuses and took a salary reduction (25% and 20%, respectively)

Also I believe I read back in this thread that the AF employees had also postponed bonuses/raises.

Elbers is a great leader for KLM, Rigail seems to be liked at AF, and Smith is proving to be the leader the group needs. I'll be very interested to see how they can work together to get through this.

I'll just say, because I know someone else will bring it up...again...AFKL is definitely much stronger as a group than they would be individually
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 9:23 am

KL slowly resuming its intercontinental network, totaling 33 destinations worldwide
18 out of 33 are available again for pax travel

LAX
KL 601 KL 602
ORD
KL 611 KL 612
ATL
KL 621 KL 622
JFK
KL 643 KL 644
IAH
KL 661 KL 662
MEX
KL 685 KL 686
YYZ
KL 691 KL 692
GIG
KL 705 KL 706
CUR
KL 735 KL 736
GRU
KL 791 KL 792
SIN
KL 835 KL 836
NRT
KL 861 KL 862
KIX
KL 867 KL 868
ICN
KL 855 KL 856
BKK
KL 875 (CARGO) KL 876
HKG
KL 887 KL 888
MNL
KL 807 KL 808
KUL
KL 809 KL 810

Source: https://news.klm.com/network-updatesnew/
 
Senti69
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:19 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 9:39 am

Site showing daily KLM flights; also additional info regarding pax/cargo flight.

https://jdenuijl.com/flights/index.php? ... 2020-05-28
 
JRadier
Posts: 3957
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 10:11 am

marcogr12 wrote:

Forgive my going slightly OT but aside from AF/KLM how come we never saw any 767,787s from UK,German, Italian leisure carriers or even A332/3s? (TUI,MT,DE,Blu Panorama.Neos etc)?

TUI NL operated a 788 via CUR on the way back, and a few French carriers operated regular flights. There are some one-off flights from other carriers, however not much.

Reason for this is that it's quite a small island, focussing predominantly on NL and FR due to the old ties. For other carriers the market from their home country just isn't large enough to justify a weekly flight.

Besides the larger holiday destinations (MCO, CUN, PUJ, etc) which see traffic from a multitude of countries, the smaller destinations tend to be focussed on 1 or a few origin countries where there is significant traffic. A few examples for long-haul traffic:
-CUR/BON are focussing primarily on NL traffic, due to historic ties
-RSW (Ft Myers, Florida) only sees LH traffic from Germany, due to the large number of second houses.
-NOS is served extensively by Italian carriers (the reason escapes me), but almost no other.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 10:48 am

JRadier wrote:
-CUR/BON are focussing primarily on NL traffic, due to historic ties


Aruba, Curacao and Sint Maarten are countries within the Kingdom of The Netherlands so not only historic ties but also current ties :)
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
JRadier
Posts: 3957
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 10:54 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
JRadier wrote:
-CUR/BON are focussing primarily on NL traffic, due to historic ties


Aruba, Curacao and Sint Maarten are countries within the Kingdom of The Netherlands so not only historic ties but also current ties :)

In that light, BON also has current ties as it is a municipality in the country of the Netherlands ;)
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 11:00 am

JRadier wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
JRadier wrote:
-CUR/BON are focussing primarily on NL traffic, due to historic ties


Aruba, Curacao and Sint Maarten are countries within the Kingdom of The Netherlands so not only historic ties but also current ties :)

In that light, BON also has current ties as it is a municipality in the country of the Netherlands ;)


Absolutely, so we can say that The Kingdom of The Netherlands is a tropical destination :lol:
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
Eikie
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:15 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 12:01 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
JRadier wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:

Aruba, Curacao and Sint Maarten are countries within the Kingdom of The Netherlands so not only historic ties but also current ties :)

In that light, BON also has current ties as it is a municipality in the country of the Netherlands ;)


Absolutely, so we can say that The Kingdom of The Netherlands is a tropical destination :lol:

It still "amazes" me that after a 9 hours flight, the last part over bright blue seas, after approaching a tiny island, which clearly has tropical weather, tropical tress, tropical people, those people speak flawless Dutch to me once I arrive in a hotel.

Of course it shouldn't be amazing, but for some reason, after all those times, I'm still not used to it. But there are far worse things not to get used to ;)
 
CFRPwingALbody
Posts: 379
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 2:02 pm

AFAIK the dutch government hasn't finalized the state support agreement with AF/KLM. I hope that Ben Smith and other board members realize they risk half their company by granting Smith his 2019 bonus. Edit to add that the other AF/KLM share holders should also realize this.
KLM already get's exceptions in their state support, they were allowed to lay off flex workers.
Now it's Ben's bonus that has cost them their job! (I find it very hard to stay polite)
 
intaJET
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:22 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 2:33 pm

Greetings fellow Airliners.

My post here is to SALUTE KLM (crew, staff & company), regardless of the political dynamics during this unfortunate period we are all subjected to, worldwide. KLM have kept the door-open to travel. I'll give you an example, my local airport Birmingham - UK (BHX. www.birminghamairport.co.uk) appears to be the ONLY international carrier that actually services here on a regular basis, and I suspect there are several other airports within Europe that fall into the same category. KLM are an outstanding carrier. You can't please every customer (as hard as you may try), but their standards are amongst the worlds best. Lets hope for better days ahead for us all.
Take care everyone.
IntaJET
 
Eikie
Posts: 116
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed May 27, 2020 4:37 pm

CFRPwingALbody wrote:
KLM already get's exceptions in their state support, they were allowed to lay off flex workers.

First, the flexworkers were not laid off, their contract wasn't extended. While in laymans views it is often the same, there is a large difference between them.
Secondl, KLM didn't get an exception, it simply is allowed and used by numerous companies under the "support" ruling. But as KLM is by far the largest company which applied for support, it makes the news.

And if you are honest, that is why companies seek flexworkers, it makes them flexible to stop working with them when not needed, for instance if you lose 90% of the income.
While unfortunate for the ones involved, they knew this when starting their flex company and most often include that risk in the rate they ask/get.

The same applies for temporary workers who were send by an employment agency, that agency can apply for the same support, not the company where the workers were working.
 
davidjohnson6
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu May 28, 2020 9:54 am

The French press is suggesting that Hop may retrench further, cutting back to just flights at Paris CDG and Lyon, with everything else dropped - seems like they are being prodded by Govt to do this. This seems to be significantly more than just dropping routes which are less than 3h by train from CDG

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... c-flights/
 
PANAMsterdam
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Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu May 28, 2020 10:22 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
The French press is suggesting that Hop may retrench further, cutting back to just flights at Paris CDG and Lyon, with everything else dropped - seems like they are being prodded by Govt to do this. This seems to be significantly more than just dropping routes which are less than 3h by train from CDG

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... c-flights/


Party at EasyJet and Ryanair HQ if this is the case.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu May 28, 2020 10:33 am

It seems many of the French domestic routes outside Paris or Lyon will be transferred from Hop to Transavia
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Thu May 28, 2020 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
mxaxai
Posts: 2058
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu May 28, 2020 10:48 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Are many of the French domestic routes flown by Hop (outside Paris or Lyon) fat enough to support 180 seat aircraft (even if flown less than 2x daily on weekdays) on a profitable basis ? Yes, I know that LCC fares will boost demand...

Most of them probably can't even fill an ATR.
 
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Alsatian
Posts: 652
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu May 28, 2020 1:21 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
The French press is suggesting that Hop may retrench further, cutting back to just flights at Paris CDG and Lyon, with everything else dropped - seems like they are being prodded by Govt to do this. This seems to be significantly more than just dropping routes which are less than 3h by train from CDG

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... c-flights/


Party at EasyJet and Ryanair HQ if this is the case.


The Govt wants the routes from Paris (Orly) being also operated by trains in less than 2h30 to be dropped (to satisfy the environmental organizations). These are ORY - BOD/LYS/NTE, no other carrier will launch one of these routes.

davidjohnson6 wrote:
It seems many of the French domestic routes outside Paris or Lyon will be transferred from Hop to Transavia


Indeed, but even the routes from ORY such as Montpellier or Biarritz.

mxaxai wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Are many of the French domestic routes flown by Hop (outside Paris or Lyon) fat enough to support 180 seat aircraft (even if flown less than 2x daily on weekdays) on a profitable basis ? Yes, I know that LCC fares will boost demand...

Most of them probably can't even fill an ATR.


Easyjet, Ryanair or Volotea have shown last years that some markets could support several 32S/737 weekly services like MRS-NTE, TLS-LIL ou BOD-SXB. It was before the crisis by the way.
 
inkjet7
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu May 28, 2020 4:47 pm

https://www.yuca.tv/en/air-france-klm/a ... erale-2020 (click on the Strategy section, about 53:50 in the video).
Shareholder meeting AF/KLM. Some 787's and A350 will be delivered at later dates. KLM could phase out some of their A330's earlier than planned, depending on how traffic develops after the crisis. For AF the same goes for the 777-200 and A330-200.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:02 pm

Source: https://news.klm.com/klm-adds-more-dest ... o-network/

Intercontinental

In June, KLM expanded its intercontinental network to include Aruba, Bonaire, Sint Maarten, Paramaribo and Quito. In July, KLM plans to add six additional destinations (Jakarta, Denpasar, Washington, San Francisco, Vancouver, Calgary) and frequency expansions to destinations KLM already offered in June. In total, there are 51 destinations. Approximately half of these destinations are currently only flown for cargo. As soon as authorities relax travel restrictions, KLM will also open these destinations for ticket sales where possible.


Could this potentially mean bringing the mothballed A330's back in service?
 
Jetty
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:06 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Source: https://news.klm.com/klm-adds-more-dest ... o-network/

Intercontinental

In June, KLM expanded its intercontinental network to include Aruba, Bonaire, Sint Maarten, Paramaribo and Quito. In July, KLM plans to add six additional destinations (Jakarta, Denpasar, Washington, San Francisco, Vancouver, Calgary) and frequency expansions to destinations KLM already offered in June. In total, there are 51 destinations. Approximately half of these destinations are currently only flown for cargo. As soon as authorities relax travel restrictions, KLM will also open these destinations for ticket sales where possible.


Could this potentially mean bringing the mothballed A330's back in service?

Potentially, but if they prefer to fly other aircraft they still won’t need to A330. Many destinations will return, but at lower frequencies.
 
Eikie
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:18 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Source: https://news.klm.com/klm-adds-more-dest ... o-network/

Intercontinental

In June, KLM expanded its intercontinental network to include Aruba, Bonaire, Sint Maarten, Paramaribo and Quito. In July, KLM plans to add six additional destinations (Jakarta, Denpasar, Washington, San Francisco, Vancouver, Calgary) and frequency expansions to destinations KLM already offered in June. In total, there are 51 destinations. Approximately half of these destinations are currently only flown for cargo. As soon as authorities relax travel restrictions, KLM will also open these destinations for ticket sales where possible.


Could this potentially mean bringing the mothballed A330's back in service?

Yes.

The flights to Aruba/Bonaire/Curaçao/ St Maarten will be flown with the a330, 5 flights a week.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:01 pm

And its a fact...PH-AOF (332) now on-route with KL785 for the Caribbean triangle (AMS - BON - CUR - AMS) :) :mrgreen: :airplane:

https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-d ... 1038139527

Eikie wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Source: https://news.klm.com/klm-adds-more-dest ... o-network/

Intercontinental

In June, KLM expanded its intercontinental network to include Aruba, Bonaire, Sint Maarten, Paramaribo and Quito. In July, KLM plans to add six additional destinations (Jakarta, Denpasar, Washington, San Francisco, Vancouver, Calgary) and frequency expansions to destinations KLM already offered in June. In total, there are 51 destinations. Approximately half of these destinations are currently only flown for cargo. As soon as authorities relax travel restrictions, KLM will also open these destinations for ticket sales where possible.


Could this potentially mean bringing the mothballed A330's back in service?

Yes.

The flights to Aruba/Bonaire/Curaçao/ St Maarten will be flown with the a330, 5 flights a week.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:53 pm

Did AF pull the plug on CDG-AMM?
 
Dieuwer
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Potential AF/KLM Divorce to be Investigated

Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:04 pm

Dutch Parliament orders secretary of finance to investigate a potential divorce of KL from AF. Experts expect it to be very much time and money consuming (and a useless exercise).

https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/132 ... -lange-weg
 
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armagnac2010
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:35 pm

I do not understand the Dutch tantrum about paying something owed for 2019. This is a contractual obligation. The Covid-19 crisis came after. KLM CEO Elbers will also have his bonus for 2019, if he did not already get it.

Or do I miss a point?
 
IWMBH
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:03 pm

armagnac2010 wrote:
I do not understand the Dutch tantrum about paying something owed for 2019. This is a contractual obligation. The Covid-19 crisis came after. KLM CEO Elbers will also have his bonus for 2019, if he did not already get it.

Or do I miss a point?


Due to the corona crisis, payment of profit sharing and bonuses has been postponed until further notice at KLM. So neither Elbers nor the rest of the KLM workforce are getting a bonus over profits made in 2019.
 
Jetty
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Re: Potential AF/KLM Divorce to be Investigated

Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:12 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Experts expect it to be very much time and money consuming (and a useless exercise).

Not all experts: https://www.trouw.nl/opinie/klm-kan-bes ... ~b8ddefff/ (Dutch)

The possible divorce is on Smith and the French state who have proven themselves immoral by taking and supporting bonus payments while the workforce at KLM that was responsible for those profits didn't get nor demanded their profit sharing because they acted reasonable in unprecedented circumstances.

It is so obvious Smiths' bonus was unacceptable to the Dutch that I think that for some reason he and the French were looking to incite a confrontation.
 
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armagnac2010
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:33 pm

@Jetty: this is one way to look at it, not sure however it is the most rational one.

The reality is that debts which are contractually owed will have to be paid, unless the whole thing goes into receivership. So, the French government behaved responsibly, while its Dutch counterpart just wanted to avoid confrontation in front of the Parliament.

The actual payment of Ben Smith 2019 bonus has also been postponed. It seems all employees are treated equally, both at KLM and Air France; but this is being distorted and used by the usual populists.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:38 pm

Going a thousand (most likely more than a thousand) steps ahead and asking the question all a.nutters are wondering - does this mean KLM will be bought by IAG and join OneWorld ?
:-)
 
FGITD
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:11 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Going a thousand (most likely more than a thousand) steps ahead and asking the question all a.nutters are wondering - does this mean KLM will be bought by IAG and join OneWorld ?
:-)


Would be a great way to ensure KLM doesn't get to celebrate anymore birthdays
 
behramjee
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Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:51 am

Air France Africa + Asia flights update as per publication across major GDS systems today:

Africa - all services bound to Dakar, Johannesburg, Abidjan, Conakry, Bamako, Lagos, Accra, Mauritius, Abuja, Douala, Kinshasa, Libreville and Brazzaville closed for sale until 30th August

Asia - until 30Aug, all flights closed for sale to Mumbai, Shanghai, Bangkok, Delhi and Tokyo.

Bangalore, Seoul, Nairobi, Hong Kong, Ho Chi Minh City and Dubai though are open for sale.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:23 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Going a thousand (most likely more than a thousand) steps ahead and asking the question all a.nutters are wondering - does this mean KLM will be bought by IAG and join OneWorld ?
:-)


KL would rather stay on its own feet rather than to be bought by another company imho
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:59 pm

AF to offer about 8,300 staff incentives to leave in a bid to cut costs. The move affects about around 300 pilots, 2,000 cabin crew and 6,000 ground staff.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... y-job-cuts
mercure f-wtcc
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:54 pm

HOP will be restructured with 27 of 57 planes to exit the fleet and 1,200 employees to be cut.

https://www.air-journal.fr/2020-06-19-a ... 20935.html

Separately, AF will operate a farewell flight on 26 June for the A380 with staff members invited.
mercure f-wtcc
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:14 pm

Cutting 27 out of 57 aircraft suggests some fairly drastic cutting of routes. I know the Govt wanted to stop people flying where the TGV was a good substitute, along with some regional routes, but when is AF/Hop expected to announce the list of routes being cut ? It must be a seriously large list, and not just a few tweaks
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:24 pm

It was mentioned before that restructured HOP would refocused by AF to nearly entirely feed CDG and LYS hubs and shed point-to-point flying (except some public obligation routes).
Fleet wise it would focus around Embraer fleet with CRJ frames removed (ATRs were previously retired).
mercure f-wtcc
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:39 pm

Will Chalair and Twinjet be allowed to pick up their choice of the thinner routes which can't support a Transavia 737 and which don't touch CDG ?
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:37 am

KQ and KL ends JV

Source: https://insideflyer.nl/klm-beeindigt-jo ... a-airways/ (Translated from Dutch)

KLM and Air France immediately terminated the Joint Venture with Kenya Airways between Europe and East Africa. This will also cancel the codeshare flights on the longhaul routes from Amsterdam, Paris Charles de Gaulle and London Heathrow to Nairobi. Air France and KLM will still remain codeshares with Kenya Airways, also a SkyTeam partner and Flying Blue airline, on routes from Nairobi. Customers who booked a flight operated by Kenya Airways via KLM have been rebooked on a KLM operated flight to Nairobi. Flights operated by Kenya Airways and booked under an AF flight number have been changed to a KQ flight number.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:01 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
KQ and KL ends JV

Source: https://insideflyer.nl/klm-beeindigt-jo ... a-airways/ (Translated from Dutch)

KLM and Air France immediately terminated the Joint Venture with Kenya Airways between Europe and East Africa. This will also cancel the codeshare flights on the longhaul routes from Amsterdam, Paris Charles de Gaulle and London Heathrow to Nairobi. Air France and KLM will still remain codeshares with Kenya Airways, also a SkyTeam partner and Flying Blue airline, on routes from Nairobi. Customers who booked a flight operated by Kenya Airways via KLM have been rebooked on a KLM operated flight to Nairobi. Flights operated by Kenya Airways and booked under an AF flight number have been changed to a KQ flight number.



Any reason behind this? Sounds like it came out of the blue. I doubt AF will continue flying to NBO after this.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:08 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
KQ and KL ends JV

Source: https://insideflyer.nl/klm-beeindigt-jo ... a-airways/ (Translated from Dutch)

KLM and Air France immediately terminated the Joint Venture with Kenya Airways between Europe and East Africa. This will also cancel the codeshare flights on the longhaul routes from Amsterdam, Paris Charles de Gaulle and London Heathrow to Nairobi. Air France and KLM will still remain codeshares with Kenya Airways, also a SkyTeam partner and Flying Blue airline, on routes from Nairobi. Customers who booked a flight operated by Kenya Airways via KLM have been rebooked on a KLM operated flight to Nairobi. Flights operated by Kenya Airways and booked under an AF flight number have been changed to a KQ flight number.



Any reason behind this? Sounds like it came out of the blue. I doubt AF will continue flying to NBO after this.


Kenya Airways management (or was it the Kenyan government?) complained a while ago that the joint venture wasn't benefitial for Kenya Airways any more.

This article is from 2017, so a troubled relationship isn't completely out of the blue:
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/busines ... grip-on-kq
 
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adambrau
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:08 pm

behramjee wrote:
Air France Africa + Asia flights update as per publication across major GDS systems today:

Africa - all services bound to Dakar, Johannesburg, Abidjan, Conakry, Bamako, Lagos, Accra, Mauritius, Abuja, Douala, Kinshasa, Libreville and Brazzaville closed for sale until 30th August

Asia - until 30Aug, all flights closed for sale to Mumbai, Shanghai, Bangkok, Delhi and Tokyo.

Bangalore, Seoul, Nairobi, Hong Kong, Ho Chi Minh City and Dubai though are open for sale.


FYI AF is operating its own metal to Tokyo NRT AF276 today. We checked in several pax out of JFK via CDG for this flight yesterday. Seems like it operates at least once a week.
JFK Friendly
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:47 pm

KL on its way to restore their network

...KLM has opted to restart as many destinations as possible first in order to offer customers a wide choice and then to increase frequencies and capacity.

This means that in July around 80 percent of the normal number of European destinations and around 75 percent of intercontinental destinations will be offered.

In August this will be around 95 percent and 80 percent respectively...


Source: https://news.klm.com/klm-gradually-rebuilds-network/
 
RvA
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:51 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
KL on its way to restore their network

...KLM has opted to restart as many destinations as possible first in order to offer customers a wide choice and then to increase frequencies and capacity.

This means that in July around 80 percent of the normal number of European destinations and around 75 percent of intercontinental destinations will be offered.

In August this will be around 95 percent and 80 percent respectively...


Source: https://news.klm.com/klm-gradually-rebuilds-network/


Hugely bold and not sure how that will work out. This means many US flights are back on the schedule but Europeans can’t enter the US yet. Compare it to very low resumption rate at Lufthansa and this is a very different approach and quite bold. Let’s see if it works out!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:04 pm

Seems low risk. Because full flights or empty flights, either way KL gets free money from government.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:30 pm

Any word on if or when KLM will return to SLC?
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