Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
ro1960
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:21 pm

Interesting news today:
France domestic flight ban will apply to low-cost airlines

Which raises a question:
How will that fare with the EU rules? Will Brussels reject the French government's law?
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
airhansa
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:29 pm

ro1960 wrote:
Interesting news today:
France domestic flight ban will apply to low-cost airlines

Which raises a question:
How will that fare with the EU rules? Will Brussels reject the French government's law?


It's based on environmental concerns so it shouldn't concern anti-trust regulators (environmental constraints exist in many situations such as dumping waste or constructing a building in a certain locality). Generally Europeans like to travel by public transport and the EU knows this. They aren't going to be seen striking down national law benefiting public transport.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:46 pm

If the ban applies to routes which can be travelled by train in 2h30 then I very much doubt any LCCs will be affected to a serious degree. These are routes which are viable only because a person is connecting to another flight - i.e. a trip that involves Air France
The LCC ban just means that Air France can't put Transavia on the route instead
 
User avatar
ro1960
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:32 pm

airhansa wrote:
ro1960 wrote:
Interesting news today:
France domestic flight ban will apply to low-cost airlines

Which raises a question:
How will that fare with the EU rules? Will Brussels reject the French government's law?


It's based on environmental concerns so it shouldn't concern anti-trust regulators (environmental constraints exist in many situations such as dumping waste or constructing a building in a certain locality). Generally Europeans like to travel by public transport and the EU knows this. They aren't going to be seen striking down national law benefiting public transport.


The deal is to reduce emissions compared to 2005 levels. Is it in line with EU objectives? It seems it would need to be to get approval, no?
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
User avatar
ro1960
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:39 pm

[quote="ro1960"]Interesting news today:
France domestic flight ban will apply to low-cost airlines


I'm reposting as the link was mistyped.
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
Flanker7
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:25 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Seems low risk. Because full flights or empty flights, either way KL gets free money from government.

There will be no free money, details are still worked out but it will not be free.
Flying blue only if possible
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:32 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Any word on if or when KLM will return to SLC?


Its not listed for next month July it seems,
Here's a recent listing of all intercontinentals: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-21jun20/

Noteworthy: KL is gonna bring her A332/333 fleet back into the mix too
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:09 pm

SNPL has agreed to 403 voluntary pilot departures at AF. Approx 200 are likely retirements from A380 fleet. The company has until July 3 to present details of its planned reductions to 14 unions involved.
mercure f-wtcc
 
A330Inter
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:59 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:34 pm

Any insight on the A380 final French tour tomorrow?
Take off planned for 15:30LT from CDG for a 2h ride, will it fly over other cities than Paris?
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:55 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Any word on if or when KLM will return to SLC?


Its not listed for next month July it seems,
Here's a recent listing of all intercontinentals: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-21jun20/

Noteworthy: KL is gonna bring her A332/333 fleet back into the mix too


YUL is actually loaded as a 789 2x weekly in July from the 15th and not the daily 332 that shows in that update. KLM will have quite the jump in Canadian ops next month going from 1 destination (YYZ) to 4 (YYZ/YUL/YVR & YYC).

They also loaded an updated August schedule too. Appears SLC was removed until September.
 
User avatar
A333MSPtoAMS
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:31 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Any word on if or when KLM will return to SLC?


Its not listed for next month July it seems,
Here's a recent listing of all intercontinentals: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-21jun20/

Noteworthy: KL is gonna bring her A332/333 fleet back into the mix too


Currently SLC is not an approved airport by the DHS for international arrivals. Until that happens it's unlikely KLM or Delta or any others will fly scheduled traffic into that airport. I believe an update wat going to be made by end of June or early July. I'm waiting to see if MSP gets added back.

https://www.dhs.gov/coronavirus/protect ... can-public
As of Dec 2019 I've flown 457,440 miles on 270 flights on 54 airplane types with 60 airlines traveling thru 104 airports. I've visited 60 countries.
http://cronkflies.com
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:37 pm

Orly reopened after 3-months with first flight operated by Transavia to Porto

https://youtu.be/mZO3w8yvQCQ

Transavia plans to serve 50 destinations from ORY representing about 80% of the destinations planned in its pre-COVID program.
mercure f-wtcc
 
LJ
Posts: 5255
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:42 pm

Flanker7 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Seems low risk. Because full flights or empty flights, either way KL gets free money from government.

There will be no free money, details are still worked out but it will not be free.


Deal has been done (EUR 1Bn loan and EUR 2.4bn loan guarantee on already agreed loans by commercial banks)

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/06/dutch-agree-e3-4bn-loan-and-guarantee-bailout-with-klm/

And one with more details
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-france-klm-group/klm-royal-dutch-airlines/klm-secures-financing-of-eur-3-4-billion-to-weather-the-covid-19-crisis/

Headline: number of nightflights will need to be reduced from 32,000 to 25,000 and KLM must reduce CO2 emmission per RPK by 50% by 2030..

BTW the job cuts will be announced next week (not to interfere with the good news).
 
User avatar
ro1960
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:12 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Orly reopened after 3-months with first flight operated by Transavia to Porto


Extinction Rebellion activists stormed the runway. How they managed to enter the airfield perimeter? Specially after "The activists warned the airport's security 20 minutes before they stormed the runway"!

Climate protest disrupts reopening of Paris Orly airport after three-month shutdown
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
Eikie
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:15 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:24 pm

LJ wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

BTW the job cuts will be announced next week (not to interfere with the good news).

Would be a little quick. While it is already announced that jobs will be lost, both publicly and internally, the restructuring plan is still being made. It has to be in effect at the end of october, as it is a requirement for the loans, and they expect to have a rough idea at the end of july. After which negotiations with the unions will start.

That's what the ceo of KLM says at least.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7558
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:10 pm

Reuters is reporting an outline for 7,500 job cuts and 20% reduction in 'structural capacity.'

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... 411VX?il=0
 
Blerg
Posts: 3870
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:18 pm

AF officially retired the A380 but will they compensate the fleet with new arrivals (787, 350...)? If not then they could end up having a lot of extra crew.
 
User avatar
Alsatian
Posts: 635
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 10:19 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:45 pm

The 11 CRJ-700s and 14 CRJ-1000s will leave the HOP fleet, only the 32 E70/90 will remain.

https://www.letelegramme.fr/economie/ai ... 574593.php


 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:30 pm

Blerg wrote:
AF officially retired the A380 but will they compensate the fleet with new arrivals (787, 350...)? If not then they could end up having a lot of extra crew.


If you read the thread you will note they are freezing deliveries and they will be reducing staff numbers. Details on staff cuts are due July 3rd. One of the pilots union has already agreed to 403 voluntary departures.
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:31 am

New leaking that AF plans cut 7,585 full-time equivalent jobs, including 1,025 at the regional subsidiary HOP.

AF 6,560 job cuts concern 430 pilots, 1,560 flight attendants, and 4,560 ground employees at airports or in administrative services. At HOP, 1,025 positions abolished would be divided between 330 pilots, 290 cabin crew members and 405 ground agents.

Also suggested that site closings are planned for maintenance bases at Morlaix(HOP) and Lille. the AF crew base at Toulouse would be eliminated.

https://www.air-journal.fr/2020-07-01-a ... 21172.html
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
PepeTheFrog
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:42 am

mercure1 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
AF officially retired the A380 but will they compensate the fleet with new arrivals (787, 350...)? If not then they could end up having a lot of extra crew.


If you read the thread you will note they are freezing deliveries and they will be reducing staff numbers. Details on staff cuts are due July 3rd. One of the pilots union has already agreed to 403 voluntary departures.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/50062788602/ => a brand new AF A350 is parked at the Airbus delivery centre, so right now deliveries continue as Airbus forces its costumers to accept new aircraft.
Good moaning!
 
User avatar
Alsatian
Posts: 635
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 10:19 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:07 pm

According to this reliable source https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 51809.html (in French), Air France has selected domestic routes that will be transfered to Transavia. As expected, Paris Orly - Toulon / Montpellier / Biarritz / Perpignan / Brest are in the list and there will be also trunk routes outside Paris including Lyon. The 20 main regional markets are :

Lyon - Bordeaux (AF - U2)
Lyon - Nantes (AF - U2)
Lyon - Toulouse (AF - U2)
Marseille - Bordeaux (AF - U2 - FR)
Marseille - Nantes (AF - FR)
Toulouse - Nantes (AF - U2 - V7)
Nice - Lille (AF - U2)
Nice - Nantes (AF - U2)
Nice - Bordeaux (AF - U2)
Marseille - Bastia (XK)
Marseille - Ajaccio (XK)
Toulouse - Lille (AF - U2 - FR)
Bordeaux - Lille (AF - U2 - FR)
Marseille - Lille (AF - FR)
Lyon - Nice (AF)
Nice - Basel/Mulhouse (U2)
Lyon - Rennes (AF - U2)
Nantes - Montpellier (U2 - V7)
Lyon - Brest (AF - U2)
Nice - Toulouse (U2 - V7)

For example, before the COVID-19 crisis, AF had 5 daily CRK/CR7 LYS - BOD on weekdays, with 3 of them operating during the hub banks. Let see how it will evolve.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4721
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:21 pm

AF formally today presented to staff its strategic plan which requires 7,580 job cuts by 2022 at AF and HOP!. Estimates 3,700 will be natural attrition/retirements during the period.

After final consultations with the unions, the restructuring plan will be presented publicly by the end of July.

press release (in French)
https://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/comm ... fs-face-la
mercure f-wtcc
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7558
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:25 pm

Reuters also picked up the story of 7,580 job reductions. Among the other info is this very pessimistic view:

The French flag carrier, part of Franco-Dutch group Air France-KLM, said it had lost 15 million euros a day during the worst part of the crisis, which also saw its revenues plunge by 95%. It did not see traffic returning to 2019 levels before 2024.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2440QF
 
cockpitherald
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:56 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:37 am

Air France had to take this dramatic decision to ensure its existence.

1-) The airline owes approximately $1 billion to the customers whose flights were canceled due to the pandemic.

[threeid] While the airline lost most of its operational income, it still has to reimburse the equivalent of approximately $1 billion to the customers whose flights have been cancelled due to the flight restrictions and lockdowns.[/threeid]

https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/07/03/air-france-set-to-slash-7-850-jobs-amid-pandemic/

2-) It has to pay the loan it received from the French government. Additionally, the airline says the state loan will not sustain its business in the long term.

3-) The airline retired A380 fleet, which cost it a lot.

[threeid] Early retirements of the A380 fleet cost Air France $500 million. [/threeid]

4-) Air France wants to change its business perspective.

5-) The airline has to save costs to sustain its business.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:29 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:06 am

Have they negociated pay cuts ? Or at least a freeze on salary growth ? Otherwise they'll be back in the same spot in a for years from now
 
Blerg
Posts: 3870
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:50 am

How do they plan on changing their business perspective? What is meant by that exactly?
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3322
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:09 am

https://youtu.be/-ijJfBqViQM

Classy Air France classy. A fond farewell to the A380.
 
User avatar
ro1960
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:19 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:15 am

Some AF A380s at LDE along with some other big boys.

Image
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos