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Jetty
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:33 am

Eikie wrote:
This is all abolished and I wonder why. With pilots only making up less than 10% of the total workforce and by far not all pilots make as much as politicians think, the actual amount of money being saved by this demand is minuscule compared to the overal costs of KLM.
If it purely was about making sure KLM can pay back the loan, a set percentage over the entire line of workers would save a hell of a lot more.

It isn't purely about making sure KLM can pay back: it's a political decision so popular support matters. There is more support to spend taxpayer money on a company when highest paid staff wages are cut rather than an overall cut.
 
Eikie
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:43 am

Jetty wrote:
Eikie wrote:
This is all abolished and I wonder why. With pilots only making up less than 10% of the total workforce and by far not all pilots make as much as politicians think, the actual amount of money being saved by this demand is minuscule compared to the overal costs of KLM.
If it purely was about making sure KLM can pay back the loan, a set percentage over the entire line of workers would save a hell of a lot more.

It isn't purely about making sure KLM can pay back: it's a political decision so popular support matters. There is more support to spend taxpayer money on a company when highest paid staff wages are cut rather than an overall cut.

Like I said, pandering to the (envious) voters. Which possibly opens the door to governmental influence in everyones pay, in every company in the Netherlands.

Up until now there was a dividing line between state and CLA agreements as there is between state and religion, state and justice, etc. But now there is a government which states how much somebody can earn in a commercial company. Even countless judges would go that far in multiple courtcases.
Of course there is state aid involved, but I wonder if this doesn't create a precedence to apply this for other reasons in the future in any line of work.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:10 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Not only Air France is having trouble with it's staff, the KLM staff can also be an obstacle in the recovery.

As we all know, KLM is being bailed out by the Dutch government, 3,4bn Euro's in their case. In exchange for this, they asked a reduction in the operation cost of 15%. So we are talking about a company which is technically broke. Their brilliant staff did go to the European Commission today to launch an objection with the Commission against the conditions imposed by the Dutch government on the promised state aid.

Crazy, your company is being bailed out, your job is saved by the taxpayer and yet you find that your personal finances are too much damaged by this. This article underpins it the most: VNC: MOVEMENT KLM DIRECTION RYANAIR WE DO NOT ALLOW.
The union for cabin crews: They blame banks for charging interest at all for the risk they are taking and their position beforehand is: we will not take any pay cuts.

As a Dutch taxpayer I say, let KLM go broke and from letting KLM 2.0 rise from the ashes, with the right amount of staff with normal pay and other benefits. The KLM personal is impossible to work with, they want way too much for themselves, without seeing the bigger picture of the state of the company. KLM is fast becoming Alitalia with an attitude like that from their staff.


What a joke your comment.

Anyway, when the government bailed out the banks ABN AMRO and Fortis for 30 billion directly payed they didnt mandate anything besides no bonusses and dividend. This also happened with ING bank and also with the LVNL air traffic control right now and the NS railroad company etc. Only no bonusses and no dividend payouts.

Only this time for only 1 billion directly plus rent, instead of 30 billion for ABN AMRO FORTIS, with KLM for the first and only time ever a government agency has put up a number of up to 20% for employees.

And the minister said himself that these prerequisites are made up together with the KLM board. The KLM directors have seen a chance to greatly change employee costs because now they can say “its not our fault, the government said so”
But the minister has already said they made up all this together with the KLM bosses.

So of course the unions are not going to do whatever the KLM wants.

Also, the government and all of its 900.000 employees get payed by tax money. The country is losing a lot of money. The deficit will be huge. But no cuts for government staff. The salaries for government employees will actually rise this year.
Last edited by Amsterdam on Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Jetty
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:12 pm

Eikie wrote:
Like I said, pandering to the (envious) voters.

Little to do with envy imo: it's only rational that salaries payed by the taxpayer are somewhat limited.

Which possibly opens the door to governmental influence in everyones pay, in every company in the Netherlands.

No it doesn't, because the government only gets to set such conditions when a company wants government funding which is very rare. It isn't new either: by law most taxpayer funded salaries are capped (wet normering topinkomens).
 
Amsterdam
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:19 pm

Its takes many many years for the government support to become a higher amount than what KLM and KLM staff have payed as taxes in the last years. So its their own money. You can call it tax payer money but factually they have payed it themselves.

Plus the government stated 100.000 peoples work is effected by the survival of KLM because of many related companies. Then also go and cut their pays not only at KLM cause the loans are also for those other companies via KLM.

The air traffic controllers get state aid now and dont need to cut anything.

The KLM bosses have come up with this plan of 20% not the minister. Never waste a good crisis has reached the KLM board.
 
Jetty
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:40 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
Its takes many many years for the government support to become a higher amount than what KLM and KLM staff have payed as taxes in the last years. So its their own money. You can call it tax payer money but factually they have payed it themselves.

That's a weird way of accounting, it isn't as if that money was saved to use at a later date. Wasn't that money spend on things like healthcare, education, infrastructure police etc. which KLM staff used and/or benefited from?

Plus the government stated 100.000 peoples work is effected by the survival of KLM because of many related companies. Then also go and cut their pays not only at KLM cause the loans are also for those other companies via KLM.

The loan is for KLM, not those other companies. If any other company wants a similar arrangement they can expect similar condition, if it even would be considered.

The air traffic controllers get state aid now and dont need to cut anything.

The law that limits taxpayer payed salaries already applies to air traffic controllers, thus the government limits their salaries already.

The KLM bosses have come up with this plan of 20% not the minister. Never waste a good crisis has reached the KLM board.

They applied it on themselves as well.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:44 pm

Its doesnt matter how you think about it. You can say your money went to salaries of governemt employees or EU funding of Hungary or KLM now or to jobless peoples free government salaries etc etc.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:03 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
What a joke your comment.


Sorry, stopped reading after that. Why read your comment when you clearly don't take my comment seriously.

You are entitled to your own opinions, and I am to mine. Let's leave it at that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Eikie
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:11 pm

Jetty wrote:

The loan is for KLM, not those other companies. If any other company wants a similar arrangement they can expect similar condition, if it even would be considered.

That is not how the government sold it. They save KLM not because they want KLM to stay afloat, but because if KLM falls, numerous other companies fall too. They called KLM the "eerste dominosteen".
The law that limits taxpayer payed salaries already applies to air traffic controllers, thus the government limits their salaries already.

I know in fact what a senior ATC employee makes and that is way above the maximum for public companies.

And that norm is moot anyway, state aid, which is a loan, not a cash gift, doesn't give the recieving company the status as public company. Neither is it nationalised, so there is no lawfull basis to cap the salaries.
They applied it on themselves as well.
Excuse me if I am a little skeptical about that. Senior/higher management have a very complex pay structure and it wouldn't surprise me with a little creatieve book keeping this will not be same as the rest of the employees.
Of course, this is purely conjecture, but apperently the first internal memo has already been distributed stating almost the exact thing, that management payment is complex and whilemit might look like they won't give up 20%, they will surely do that.
 
Amsterdam
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:24 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
What a joke your comment.


Sorry, stopped reading after that. Why read your comment when you clearly don't take my comment seriously.

You are entitled to your own opinions, and I am to mine. Let's leave it at that.


“As a tax payer I say let KLM go broke.”

And then he wonders why I dont take him seriously.
Whatever dude.

Any person who has ever payed tax in his live thinks he is al that important all of a sudden.
“Because, because I am a tax payer, listen to what I have to say! I am important!”
I thinks its pathetic.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:31 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Amsterdam wrote:
What a joke your comment.


Sorry, stopped reading after that. Why read your comment when you clearly don't take my comment seriously.

You are entitled to your own opinions, and I am to mine. Let's leave it at that.


“As a tax payer I say let KLM go broke.”

And then he wonders why I dont take him seriously.
Whatever dude.

Any person who has ever payed tax in his live thinks he is al that important all of a sudden.
“Because, because I am a tax payer, listen to what I have to say! I am important!”
I thinks its pathetic.


Oh boy, really, 3rd person...........Dude.......... I guess it is easier to do the personal attack thingy than actually go into what I have said. Perhaps you are personal invested in it? Perhaps you are actually an employee of KLM? Or am I wrong? And could you give me another reason to why you are reacting like this?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
marcelh
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:11 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
Its doesnt matter how you think about it. You can say your money went to salaries of governemt employees or EU funding of Hungary or KLM now or to jobless peoples free government salaries etc etc.

Please stop. You are just making a fool of yourself (and it has happened before)
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:34 am

Air France has reached a tentative deal with its pilots to transfer some domestic services to low-cost subsidiary Transavia.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKCN24L24Y

Deal reported will allow Transavia to ramp up operations at ORY and grow French fleet size by 4 frames to start with. In return AF mainline pilots will be guaranteed a minimum number of flight hours and narrowbody fleet size moving forward.
mercure f-wtcc
 
nicode
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:05 am

mercure1 wrote:
Air France has reached a tentative deal with its pilots to transfer some domestic services to low-cost subsidiary Transavia.

Why not, but for Flyingblue FF, not a good news : this means fewer opportunities to earn miles and XP...
 
TYCOON
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:55 pm

nicode wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Air France has reached a tentative deal with its pilots to transfer some domestic services to low-cost subsidiary Transavia.

Why not, but for Flyingblue FF, not a good news : this means fewer opportunities to earn miles and XP...


You only earn 2 XP on domestic flights... nothing to cry too much about...
 
nicode
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:00 pm

I do domestic flight in France sometimes and 2XP is not a lot but still worth taking (4XP for both ways).
 
VSMUT
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:22 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Air France has reached a tentative deal with its pilots to transfer some domestic services to low-cost subsidiary Transavia.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKCN24L24Y

Deal reported will allow Transavia to ramp up operations at ORY and grow French fleet size by 4 frames to start with. In return AF mainline pilots will be guaranteed a minimum number of flight hours and narrowbody fleet size moving forward.


Unfortunate for Flying Blue customers. I hope they will limit them to Orly, so connecting AF-KLM passengers won't be subject to Transavia.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:10 pm

VSMUT wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Air France has reached a tentative deal with its pilots to transfer some domestic services to low-cost subsidiary Transavia.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKCN24L24Y

Deal reported will allow Transavia to ramp up operations at ORY and grow French fleet size by 4 frames to start with. In return AF mainline pilots will be guaranteed a minimum number of flight hours and narrowbody fleet size moving forward.


Unfortunate for Flying Blue customers. I hope they will limit them to Orly, so connecting AF-KLM passengers won't be subject to Transavia.


The current deal states Transavia operates at ORY only and this is not going to change. AF will operate CDG-Province flights for connections and ORY-TLS/MRS/NCE/Corsica.
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FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:01 am

The days have been counted for the three amigos PH-BFT, PH-BFW and PH-BFV, estimated time of departure might be around W20

"...The three Boeing 747-400s that KLM took off again in April when they had actually already been phased out, will still retire at the end of October. A spokesperson for the airline said this when asked...."


Source: https://www.nu.nl/economie/6065703/klm- ... sioen.html
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:21 pm

Q2 2020 Financial figures: https://news.klm.com/klms-financial-fig ... f-of-2020/

Operating income amounted to a loss of €493 million. During the same period in 2019, we earned €270 million in profit.


Operating income amounted to a loss of €768 million for the first half-year, compared to a profit of €223 million for the same period in 2019. A decline of almost €1 billion.


After EK, BA, AA, DL, LH etc, we can also expect major jobcuts within this airline as well
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:22 pm

Dramatic numbers for AFKLM. Again did KLM a better job than AF, however this time you can't blame AF for that since the lockdown measures in France were a lot stricter than they were/are in The Netherlands.

Dutch public broadcaster NOS is reporting that KLM will let an additional 1100 people go.

Furthermore KLM predicts that they will execute about 45% of their regular schedule the remainder of this quarter and expects to raise this to approximately 60% in the last quarter.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:24 am

Just published: KLM Press release

KLM is in the throes of a crisis of unprecedented magnitude. Expectations are that the road to recovery will be long and fraught with uncertainty. This means that KLM’s structure and size must be rigorously adjusted even further in the years ahead. Consequently, a total of 4,500 to 5,000 positions in the entire KLM Group (expressed in FTEs) will cease to exist.

https://news.klm.com/klm-adapts-organis ... 19-crisis/
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:16 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
Just published: KLM Press release

KLM is in the throes of a crisis of unprecedented magnitude. Expectations are that the road to recovery will be long and fraught with uncertainty. This means that KLM’s structure and size must be rigorously adjusted even further in the years ahead. Consequently, a total of 4,500 to 5,000 positions in the entire KLM Group (expressed in FTEs) will cease to exist.

https://news.klm.com/klm-adapts-organis ... 19-crisis/


The jobcuts might actually be a whole lot bigger :cry: See page 27 of this release presentation

https://www.airfranceklm.com/sites/defa ... _final.pdf

Significant FTE reductions to adjust to lower demand

• AF 7,500 FTE
• KLM 4,500-5,000 FTE

 
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mercure1
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:40 pm

Air France pilots who are members of the SNPL approved by 90.37% of the votes, the domestic network restructuring project which paves the way for the further development of its low cost subsidiary Transavia France.
The agreement calls for minimum guarantees on flight hours and fleet of 150 short/medium-haul narrowbody (defined as Airbus A320 family, Boieng 737 family and A220) frames - 110 at AF and 40 at TO. 80 of these AF frames must be based at CDG where TO is excluded from operating. AF will also maintain its Navette (shuttle) base at ORY with service to MRS, NCE and TLS.
The agreement otherwise allows AFKL to swap routes and slots among AF, Hop! and Transavia.


https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-servi ... ia-1232086
mercure f-wtcc
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:31 pm

Air France press release with more detail.

https://www.airfranceklm.com/fr/air-fra ... lotes-pour

- The Air France-KLM group will strengthen its strategic position in Paris by capitalizing on the strengths of its various airlines and in particular on the strengths of Air France and its partners.
- At Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Air France will continue to strengthen its main base for medium and long-haul flights. HOP! will connect the Paris-Charles de Gaulle global hub to regional markets from terminal 2G.
- At Paris-Orly, Air France will transform and diversify its network with a view to enriching its offering and significantly improving its financial performance. On the domestic market, Air France will continue to provide frequent La Navette flights to Toulouse, Nice and Marseille, as well as lines to Corsica. Air France will also strengthen its long-haul offer to Overseas Territories (Cayenne, Pointe-à-Pitre, Fort-de-France, Saint-Denis de La Réunion) as well as to New York JFK. Transavia France will launch domestic routes while pursuing its growth to Europe, thus increasing the group's offering.
- In Lyon, Air France will consolidate its position by developing the HOP! and Transavia France.
- Transavia France will also continue to grow from its bases in Nantes, Lyon and Montpellier.
- The customer experience offered by Transavia France will continue to evolve to strengthen the offer's competitiveness against other players in the low-cost market, while maintaining a clear and relevant positioning in the leisure market.
mercure f-wtcc
 
Blerg
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:58 am

- In Lyon, Air France will consolidate its position by developing the HOP! and Transavia France.

What was the case until now? Only HOP!?
 
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ro1960
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:25 am

Blerg wrote:
- In Lyon, Air France will consolidate its position by developing the HOP! and Transavia France.

What was the case until now? Only HOP!?


I think it refers to Transavia operating domestic routes. Currently they don’t and the plan is that they take over some operated by AF and Hop!
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eastafspot
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:15 pm

Strange that no one mentioned this news yet... :biggrin:


To compensate for the lack of trips abroad, the French State will launch flights between Orly and Roissy.


In French only:
http://www.legorafi.fr/2020/08/12/avion ... -a-roissy/
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:19 pm

In case you don't know... Le Gorafi is a satire news site.... but the article is rather amusing
 
764
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:02 pm

This may be off topic, but several friends in Germany and Spain have told me that they have been waiting for refunds for cancelled KL/AF flights for months now (no surprise). KL/AF have been using the old "oh, the ticket numbers changed, so we have to start a new investigation, please wait another 12 weeks" every few weeks on all of them (sadly, no surprise either). But, interestingly, when two of them decided to get their lawyers involved, they both got very threatening letters within days, telling them that hiring a lawyer was unnecessary and ridiculous because refunding tickets as well as the timing was "in the sole discretion of KL/AF and there was no legal requirement to do so" (uhm, one ticket was fully refundable, one partially and besides, EU 261/2004 definitely applies here - yes, they must refund and yes, they must do so within 7 days). In both cases, KL/AF threatened the passengers that if they didn't waive representation (aka: fire their lawyer), AF/KL would retract all previous offers and vouchers and refuse to refund any of the paid amount. Ever. Period. (The verbage seemed slightly different between the languages, but I don't speak both perfectly, so I have to rely on my friends to tell me what it means). This kind of threat is new (and legally risky for KL/AF, too, as they might actually enter criminal law territory here). Has anybody else heard of this happening? It seems unique to KL/AF among major carriers.
 
mig17
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:02 pm

764 wrote:
This may be off topic, but several friends in Germany and Spain have told me that they have been waiting for refunds for cancelled KL/AF flights for months now (no surprise). KL/AF have been using the old "oh, the ticket numbers changed, so we have to start a new investigation, please wait another 12 weeks" every few weeks on all of them (sadly, no surprise either). But, interestingly, when two of them decided to get their lawyers involved, they both got very threatening letters within days, telling them that hiring a lawyer was unnecessary and ridiculous because refunding tickets as well as the timing was "in the sole discretion of KL/AF and there was no legal requirement to do so" (uhm, one ticket was fully refundable, one partially and besides, EU 261/2004 definitely applies here - yes, they must refund and yes, they must do so within 7 days). In both cases, KL/AF threatened the passengers that if they didn't waive representation (aka: fire their lawyer), AF/KL would retract all previous offers and vouchers and refuse to refund any of the paid amount. Ever. Period. (The verbage seemed slightly different between the languages, but I don't speak both perfectly, so I have to rely on my friends to tell me what it means). This kind of threat is new (and legally risky for KL/AF, too, as they might actually enter criminal law territory here). Has anybody else heard of this happening? It seems unique to KL/AF among major carriers.

A friend of mine told me legal department was the only one not concerned by volontary job cuts at AF ...

The article in "Les Echos" also state that the cost per seat at AF on an A320 is 107 euro and at HOP on a E190 is 131 euro while it is only 63 euro in a 738 at Transavia. So it is not 110 AF and 40 Transavia they should do but the opposite and close HOP ...
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LY777
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AF A332 to TLV today

Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:02 pm

If I am not mistaken, this is the first time in years (or decades) that AF sends a widebody to TLV for a scheduled flight.
F-GZCH (A332) is currently flying to TLV.

I hope to see more AF widebodies flying to TLV instead of the A320s... AF used to send their A300s to TLV in 80s/90s IIRC
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
hervebkk
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Re: AF A332 to TLV today

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:14 am

Indeed almost never an AF widebody in TLV, but unfortunately the trend for European airlines goes towards A320s to TLV, away from Heavies. LH used to fly there with B747s, A343/346, only Swiss and BA still fly Heavies there on a regular basis, although the original plans for at Swiss Summer 2020 was to downgrade the day flight to a 321, let's see what future brings. KL, OS, SN, IZ, all A320s, IB a mix of A320/330.

I can remember a one-off Air France 77W a couple of years ago.

And yes, A300 were common in the 70s, one of them famousely got hijacked to Entebbe after a stopover in ATH in 1976, F-BVGG, with courageous CMD Michel Bacos, who unfortunately died last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Entebbe
 
airbuster
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Re: AF A332 to TLV today

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:29 am

Just to clarify KL on the 737-900. They sent the md11/777 there a season a couple of years ago but that was shortlived. I know they had crunched the numbers for this summer to send the A332 but it didn’t materialize. I was once told by the AF-KLM station manager in TLV that the landing fees for widebodies at TLV rise exponentially in comparison with a narrowbody.
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davidjohnson6
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Re: AF A332 to TLV today

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:29 am

Why did AF feel the need to send a widebody instead of an A320 ?
It may be great for the widebody-good-narrowbody-bad fan club... but when flying I would far prefer a higher frequency of A320/B737 family aircraft to have maximum choice of flight times
 
JUANTRIPPEJR
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:12 pm

Can anyone tell me where I can find a complete set of statistics on the number of travelers from Paris (CDG/ORY) to destinations all over the world (non-stop and connecting flights)? I am particularly interested in knowing what potential destinations AF could fly to, but actually doesn't. I know anna.aero often provides lists of underserved destinations...but I'm looking for a more complete source (preferably free). I don't know if the French govt. allows this type of info or whether I need to pay to obtain it from OAG.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:17 pm

JUANTRIPPEJR wrote:
Can anyone tell me where I can find a complete set of statistics on the number of travelers from Paris (CDG/ORY) to destinations all over the world (non-stop and connecting flights)? I am particularly interested in knowing what potential destinations AF could fly to, but actually doesn't. I know anna.aero often provides lists of underserved destinations...but I'm looking for a more complete source (preferably free). I don't know if the French govt. allows this type of info or whether I need to pay to obtain it from OAG.



Paris Aéroports publishes monthly stats but not detailed by cities. By countries only.

https://www.parisaeroport.fr/en/group/finance/investor-relations/traffic
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
JUANTRIPPEJR
Posts: 38
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:54 am

Thanks!
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:13 am

Interesting article on KL current status of its widebody fleet
Source: https://simpleflying.com/klm-future-fleet/

By the way, what happened to that additional 2x 77W order? Are they still planning on using it?
 
hervebkk
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Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:01 pm

Re: AF A332 to TLV today

Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:22 am

Again today, AF1620 operated by an A332 F-GZCL....

https://www.flightradar24.com/AFR1620/255dec6f
 
Blerg
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:06 am

According to various Serbian sources, Air France is suspending CDG-BEG this coming winter. This market will be served by JU and W6.
 
airbuster
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:36 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Interesting article on KL current status of its widebody fleet
Source: https://simpleflying.com/klm-future-fleet/

By the way, what happened to that additional 2x 77W order? Are they still planning on using it?


That article didn’t bring any news to the table. It says that the AF 787 most likely will move to KL. That’s just a thought. More so it doesn’t tell us anything about the future after COVID strategy. And KLM itself doesn’t know that either.

Yes the 777/787 is the long haul backbone. But will we see additional A321LR or a 787-8 in the future? Your guess is as good as mine....
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
factsonly
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:42 pm

September 1st, 2020:

- KLM celebrating 100 Years of HAM-AMS:

Image

This follows 100 Years of LON-AMS which was first operated on May 17, 1920.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:18 pm

AF-KL Group appoints a new head honcho to oversee all restructuring in both AF and KL business groups. Is he gonna be above Anne Rigail and Pieter Elbers too?

Oltion Carkaxhija has been appointed Deputy Managing Director of Transformation of the Air France-KLM group. This appointment takes effect on October 1, 2020. Oltion Carkaxhija will, in conjunction with all of the Group's businesses concerned, implement structural measures to improve Air France-KLM unit costs and optimize external expenses.


Source: https://www.deplacementspros.com/ils-bo ... france-klm
 
Theseus
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:26 pm

airbuster wrote:
That article didn’t bring any news to the table. It says that the AF 787 most likely will move to KL.


I read it slightly differently: it says "KLM will likely be receiving the remainder of Air France’s Boeing 787-9 order", so I guess that means new deliveries go to KL. Not sure about already delivered AF 787s (though it would be more logical to move them to KLM).
I remember seeing this information earlier on a.net, so I do not think there is anything new.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:34 pm

Theseus wrote:
airbuster wrote:
That article didn’t bring any news to the table. It says that the AF 787 most likely will move to KL.


I read it slightly differently: it says "KLM will likely be receiving the remainder of Air France’s Boeing 787-9 order", so I guess that means new deliveries go to KL. Not sure about already delivered AF 787s (though it would be more logical to move them to KLM).
I remember seeing this information earlier on a.net, so I do not think there is anything new.


I think so yeah. KLM A350's order went to Air France and Air France order for B787 went to KLM. Unless it has changed, the already delivered B787's to Air France, will remain there.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:42 pm

factsonly wrote:
September 1st, 2020:

- KLM celebrating 100 Years of HAM-AMS:

This follows 100 Years of LON-AMS which was first operated on May 17, 1920.


Was searching for early routes from KLM, but couldnot find it, anything beyond the LON - AMS route. Which route is next in line to turn 100 ;-)
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
airbuster
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:43 am

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:42 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Theseus wrote:
airbuster wrote:
That article didn’t bring any news to the table. It says that the AF 787 most likely will move to KL.


I read it slightly differently: it says "KLM will likely be receiving the remainder of Air France’s Boeing 787-9 order", so I guess that means new deliveries go to KL. Not sure about already delivered AF 787s (though it would be more logical to move them to KLM).
I remember seeing this information earlier on a.net, so I do not think there is anything new.


I think so yeah. KLM A350's order went to Air France and Air France order for B787 went to KLM. Unless it has changed, the already delivered B787's to Air France, will remain there.


Yes I get your point of view. I think you’re right the way you read it. It’s the outstanding orders going to KL. Still nothing new though.
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:45 pm

“They will have to address their cost base...”

Is that Dutch code for 'sack more employees'? It's a pretty short list of ways to cut costs significantly in a labor-intensive service business. They're stuck paying market prices for fuel and aircraft.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 640FZ?il=0
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Air France KLM - Master Thread

Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
“They will have to address their cost base...”

Is that Dutch code for 'sack more employees'? It's a pretty short list of ways to cut costs significantly in a labor-intensive service business. They're stuck paying market prices for fuel and aircraft.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 640FZ?il=0


And in the meantime they hire an expensive consultant firm for their restructuring plans

Source: https://www.consultancy.eu/news/4826/kl ... ng-efforts
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