In the same way that we are keeping track of the active 747-400 fleet in the thread Boeing 747-400 Passenger Fleet Tracking/Retirements Thread - 2020, I thought it would be interesting to keep track of the other two very large passenger aircraft which have also been almost entirely pulled from the sky due to the current COVID-19 crisis: the Airbus A380-800 and the Boeing 747-8I. This thread is for the Boeing 747-8I; see viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1444531 for the A380.

This thread will work in the same way as the 747-400 one. I will provide a list of aircraft listed as active each week, sourced from Planespotters.net and cross-referenced with Flightradar24. Aircraft which are listed as active will be illustrated with the most recent airborne/take-off/landing photograph in the Airliners.net database, and those stored will be listed. If a stored aircraft has flown within the previous 7 days I'll make note of that. If an aircraft is stored but planned to become active I'll make note of that too, but won't list it as active until it is flying.

Please feel free to add updates and discuss the status of aircraft. However please refrain from using this thread to get into discussions about the relative merits of these two aircraft and other large aircraft, or the two manufacturers who produce them, or the airlines who fly them - this is not the place for that discussion.

Lufthansa
5 aircraft active, 14 stored
D-ABYJ 37834/1477 Boeing 747-830 - airborne FRA-HND at time of posting
D-ABYK 37835/1480 Boeing 747-830 - last flew MNL-FRA 08/04/2020
D-ABYL 37836/1492 Boeing 747-830 - last flew FRA-ORD 12/04/2020

D-ABYO 37841/1498 Boeing 747-830 - last flew HND-FRA 12/04/2020
D-ABYP 37839/1500 Boeing 747-830 - airborne FRA-GRU at time of posting

Stored: D-ABYA, D-ABYC, D-ABYD, D-ABYF, D-ABYG, D-ABYH, D-ABYI, D-ABYM, D-ABYN, D-ABYQ, D-ABYR, D-ABYS, D-ABYT, D-ABYU

Airlines with whole fleet stored

• Air China - 6 aircraft stored: B-2480, B-2481, B-2482, B-2485, B-2486, B-2487 (a 7th aircraft, B-2479, is used by the government in a VIP configuration, and is listed as active)
• Korean Air - 10 aircraft stored: HL7630, HL7631, HL7632, HL7633, HL7636, HL7637, HL7638, HL7642, HL7643, HL7644

So as of the 12/04/2020, there is 1 airline flying 5 aircraft, with another 14 stored, with 2 more airlines with 16 aircraft all stored.

V/F

wow. 748i status is quick and easy with only 3 carriers using it . . .

Surprising to me that LH are flying at all. If they are flying largely without passengers you’d think there would be cheaper options.

Keep well.

Geoff

That is surprising. Is LH flying the 747s for cargo mostly, or what's going on?

AirlineCritic wrote:

That is surprising. Is LH flying the 747s for cargo mostly, or what's going on?

Used on repatriation flights I believe.
It would seem that some regular scheduled commercial flights like GRU or HND are maintained as well, albeit with lower weekly frequency.

Welcome to the next weekly installment of Which 747-8Is are Still Flying in 2020? The data for which aircraft are active is taken from Planespotters.net, cross-referenced with Flightradar24 and any comments posted on this thread. Aircraft which are listed as active will be illustrated with the most recent airborne/take-off/landing photograph in the Airliners.net database, and those stored will be listed. If a stored aircraft has flown within the previous 7 days I'll make note of that. If an aircraft is stored but planned to become active I'll make note of that too, but won't list it as active until it is flying. This means some aircraft which may be being brought back to active status won't be listed here. 747-8F freighters are not under consideration here.

The following operators have aircraft in service:

Korean Air
1 aircraft active, 9 stored
HL7643 60410/1538 Boeing 747-8B5 - last flew PRG-ICN 15/04/2020

Stored: HL7630, HL7631, HL7632, HL7633, HL7636, HL7637, HL7638, HL7642, HL7644

Lufthansa
4 aircraft active, 15 stored
D-ABYJ 37834/1477 Boeing 747-830 - Planespotters has it stored, but it is scheduled to fly FRA-GRU 19/04/2020
D-ABYL 37836/1492 Boeing 747-830 - airborne HND-FRA at time of posting

D-ABYO 37841/1498 Boeing 747-830 - last flew ORD-FRA 18/04/2020
D-ABYP 37839/1500 Boeing 747-830 - lasrt flew GRU-FRA 18/04/2020

Stored: D-ABYA, D-ABYC, D-ABYD, D-ABYF, D-ABYG, D-ABYH, D-ABYI, D-ABYJ (last flew , D-ABYK, D-ABYM, D-ABYN, D-ABYQ, D-ABYR, D-ABYS, D-ABYT, D-ABYU

Airlines with whole fleet stored

• Air China - 6 aircraft stored: B-2480, B-2481, B-2482, B-2485, B-2486, B-2487 (a 7th aircraft, B-2479, is used by the government in a VIP configuration, and is listed as active)

Summary
As of today, there are 2 airlines flying 5 aircraft, with another 24 stored, with 1 more airline with 6 aircraft all stored.

V/F

AirwayBill wrote:

AirlineCritic wrote:

That is surprising. Is LH flying the 747s for cargo mostly, or what's going on?

Used on repatriation flights I believe.
It would seem that some regular scheduled commercial flights like GRU or HND are maintained as well, albeit with lower weekly frequency.

They’re currently deployed on 3 regular scheduled routes (3x weekly each):

FRA - ORD
FRA - GRU
FRA - HND

Yesterday in Anchorage.

more 748i's flying than A380's, no one even thought to bet on that rarity.

Welcome to the next weekly installment of Which 747-8Is are Still Flying in 2020? The data for which aircraft are active is taken from Planespotters.net, cross-referenced with Flightradar24 and any comments posted on this thread. Aircraft which are listed as active will be illustrated with the most recent airborne/take-off/landing photograph in the Airliners.net database, and those stored will be listed. If a stored aircraft has flown within the previous 7 days I'll make note of that. If an aircraft is stored but planned to become active I'll make note of that too, but won't list it as active until it is flying. This means some aircraft which may be being brought back to active status won't be listed here. 747-8F freighters are not under consideration here.

The following operators have aircraft in service:

Air China
5 aircraft active, 1 stored
B-2480 41194/1518 Boeing 747-89L - last flew FRA-PEK 25/04/2020
B-2481 41847/1515 Boeing 747-89L - last flew PEK-JFK 25/04/2020

B-2485 41191/1499 Boeing 747-89L - last flew JFK-PEK 25/04/2020
B-2486 41192/1507 Boeing 747-89L - airborne PEK-JFK at time of posting
B-2487 44932/1508 Boeing 747-89L - last flew PEK-JFK 25/04/2020

Stored: B-2482

Lufthansa
4 aircraft active, 15 stored
D-ABYJ 37834/1477 Boeing 747-830 - last flew GRU-FRA 25/04/2020
D-ABYL 37836/1492 Boeing 747-830 - airborne FRA-ORD at time of posting

D-ABYO 37841/1498 Boeing 747-830 - Planespotters has it stored, but it is scheduled to fly FRA-GRU 26/04/2020
D-ABYP 37839/1500 Boeing 747-830 - last flew GRU-FRA 23/04/2020

Stored: D-ABYA, D-ABYC, D-ABYD, D-ABYF, D-ABYG, D-ABYH, D-ABYI, D-ABYK, D-ABYM, D-ABYN, D-ABYQ, D-ABYR, D-ABYS, D-ABYT, D-ABYU

Airlines with whole fleet stored

• Korean Air - 10 aircraft stored: HL7630, HL7631, HL7632, HL7633, HL7636, HL7637, HL7638, HL7642, HL7643, HL7644

Summary
As of today, there are 2 airlines flying 9 aircraft, with another 16 stored, with 1 more airline with 10 aircraft all stored. Interesting to see the bulk of the Air China fleet back in action.

V/F's favourite 747-8I photo of the week


V/F

Welcome to the next weekly installment of Which 747-8Is are Still Flying in 2020? The data for which aircraft are active is taken from Planespotters.net, cross-referenced with Flightradar24 and any comments posted on this thread. Aircraft which are listed as active will be illustrated with the most recent airborne/take-off/landing photograph in the Airliners.net database, and those stored will be listed. If a stored aircraft has flown within the previous 7 days I'll make note of that. If an aircraft is stored but planned to become active I'll make note of that too, but won't list it as active until it is flying. This means some aircraft which may be being brought back to active status won't be listed here. 747-8F freighters are not under consideration here.

The following operators have aircraft in service:

Air China
6 aircraft active
B-2480 41194/1518 Boeing 747-89L - last flew TSN-PEK 01/05/2020
B-2481 41847/1515 Boeing 747-89L - last flew LAX-PEK 01/05/2020
B-2482 44933/1517 Boeing 747-89L - last flew TSN-PEK 02/05/2020

B-2485 41191/1499 Boeing 747-89L - last flew JFK-PEK 01/05/2020
B-2486 41192/1507 Boeing 747-89L - last flew LAX-PEK 02/05/2020
B-2487 44932/1508 Boeing 747-89L - airborne PEK-LAX at time of posting


Lufthansa
4 aircraft active, 15 stored
D-ABYJ 37834/1477 Boeing 747-830 - last flew GRU-FRA 02/05/2020
D-ABYL 37836/1492 Boeing 747-830 - last flew ORD-FRA 02/05/2020

D-ABYO 37841/1498 Boeing 747-830 - last flew GRU-FRA 30/04/2020
D-ABYP 37839/1500 Boeing 747-830 - Planespotters has it stored, but it is scheduled to fly FRA-ORD 03/05/2020

Stored: D-ABYA, D-ABYC, D-ABYD, D-ABYF, D-ABYG, D-ABYH, D-ABYI, D-ABYK, D-ABYM, D-ABYN, D-ABYQ, D-ABYR, D-ABYS, D-ABYT, D-ABYU

Airlines with whole fleet stored

• Korean Air - 10 aircraft stored: HL7630, HL7631, HL7632, HL7633, HL7636, HL7637, HL7638, HL7642, HL7643, HL7644

Summary
As of today, there are 2 airlines flying 10 aircraft, with another 15 stored, with 1 more airline with 10 aircraft all stored. Air China's whole fleet is active now.

V/F's favourite 747-8I photo of the week


V/F

Welcome to the next weekly installment of Which 747-8Is are Still Flying in 2020? The data for which aircraft are active is taken from Planespotters.net, cross-referenced with Flightradar24 and any comments posted on this thread. Aircraft which are listed as active will be illustrated with the most recent airborne/take-off/landing photograph in the Airliners.net database, and those stored will be listed. If a stored aircraft has flown within the previous 7 days I'll make note of that. If an aircraft is stored but planned to become active I'll make note of that too, but won't list it as active until it is flying. This means some aircraft which may be being brought back to active status won't be listed here. 747-8F freighters are not under consideration here.

The following operators have aircraft in service:

Air China
3 aircraft active, 3 stored
B-2481 41847/1515 Boeing 747-89L - airborne PEK-LAX at time of posting
B-2486 41192/1507 Boeing 747-89L - last flew LAX-PEK 08/05/2020
B-2487 44932/1508 Boeing 747-89L - last flew LAX-PEK 09/05/2020

Stored: B-2480, B-2482, B-2485 (last flew LAX-PEK 05/05/2020)

Lufthansa
3 aircraft active, 16 stored
D-ABYJ 37834/1477 Boeing 747-830 - last flew GRU-FRA 09/05/2020
D-ABYL 37836/1492 Boeing 747-830 - last flew GRU-FRA 07/05/2020
D-ABYO 37841/1498 Boeing 747-830 - last flew ORD-FRA 09/05/2020

Stored: D-ABYA, D-ABYC, D-ABYD, D-ABYF, D-ABYG, D-ABYH, D-ABYI, D-ABYK, D-ABYM, D-ABYN, D-ABYP (last flew ORD-FRA 04/05/2020), D-ABYQ, D-ABYR, D-ABYS, D-ABYT, D-ABYU

Airlines with whole fleet stored

• Korean Air - 10 aircraft stored: HL7630, HL7631, HL7632, HL7633, HL7636, HL7637, HL7638, HL7642, HL7643, HL7644

Summary
As of today, there are 2 airlines flying 6 aircraft, with another 19 stored, with 1 more airline with 10 aircraft all stored.

V/F's favourite 747-8I photo of the week


V/F

Any idea who’s Jumbo is this mentioned in the article?
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... ior-2020-3

UAEflyer wrote:

Any idea who’s Jumbo is this mentioned in the article?
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... ior-2020-3

What a pretty business jet. Must be nice to have such a means.

aristoenigma wrote:

UAEflyer wrote:

Any idea who’s Jumbo is this mentioned in the article?
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... ior-2020-3

What a pretty business jet. Must be nice to have such a means.

Was this the one? Ordered by/for Saudis but not taken up and presumably ended with intended VIP user?

Manufacturers Serial No. 40065


Reg N458BJ Boeing 747-8JA(BBJ)
Boeing Business Jets
29 Jun 2012

Ferried PAE-YYR- SBD 9 Jul 2012 on delivery
Ferried SBD-SKF 6 Oct 2012
Ferried SKF-BSL 28-29 Dec 2012 for cabin outfitting
Reg HZ-HMS1 Boeing 747-8JA(BBJ)
Saudi Arabian Government ntu

aristoenigma wrote:

aristoenigma wrote:

UAEflyer wrote:

Any idea who’s Jumbo is this mentioned in the article?
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... ior-2020-3

What a pretty business jet. Must be nice to have such a means.

Was this the one? Ordered by/for Saudis but not taken up and presumably ended with intended VIP user?

Manufacturers Serial No. 40065


Reg N458BJ Boeing 747-8JA(BBJ)
Boeing Business Jets
29 Jun 2012

Ferried PAE-YYR- SBD 9 Jul 2012 on delivery
Ferried SBD-SKF 6 Oct 2012
Ferried SKF-BSL 28-29 Dec 2012 for cabin outfitting
Reg HZ-HMS1 Boeing 747-8JA(BBJ)
Saudi Arabian Government ntu

I would think it has to be, all the other ones have been accounted for. The one LH did not take is still owned by Boeing.

VirginFlyer wrote:

Welcome to the next weekly installment of Which 747-8Is are Still Flying in 2020? The data for which aircraft are active is taken from Planespotters.net, cross-referenced with Flightradar24 and any comments posted on this thread. Aircraft which are listed as active will be illustrated with the most recent airborne/take-off/landing photograph in the Airliners.net database, and those stored will be listed. If a stored aircraft has flown within the previous 7 days I'll make note of that. If an aircraft is stored but planned to become active I'll make note of that too, but won't list it as active until it is flying. This means some aircraft which may be being brought back to active status won't be listed here. 747-8F freighters are not under consideration here.

The following operators have aircraft in service:

Air China
3 aircraft active, 3 stored
B-2481 41847/1515 Boeing 747-89L - airborne PEK-LAX at time of posting
B-2486 41192/1507 Boeing 747-89L - last flew LAX-PEK 08/05/2020
B-2487 44932/1508 Boeing 747-89L - last flew LAX-PEK 09/05/2020

Stored: B-2480, B-2482, B-2485 (last flew LAX-PEK 05/05/2020)

Lufthansa
3 aircraft active, 16 stored
D-ABYJ 37834/1477 Boeing 747-830 - last flew GRU-FRA 09/05/2020
D-ABYL 37836/1492 Boeing 747-830 - last flew GRU-FRA 07/05/2020
D-ABYO 37841/1498 Boeing 747-830 - last flew ORD-FRA 09/05/2020

Stored: D-ABYA, D-ABYC, D-ABYD, D-ABYF, D-ABYG, D-ABYH, D-ABYI, D-ABYK, D-ABYM, D-ABYN, D-ABYP (last flew ORD-FRA 04/05/2020), D-ABYQ, D-ABYR, D-ABYS, D-ABYT, D-ABYU

Airlines with whole fleet stored

• Korean Air - 10 aircraft stored: HL7630, HL7631, HL7632, HL7633, HL7636, HL7637, HL7638, HL7642, HL7643, HL7644

Summary
As of today, there are 2 airlines flying 6 aircraft, with another 19 stored, with 1 more airline with 10 aircraft all stored.

V/F's favourite 747-8I photo of the week

V/F

Time for an update?

txs

aristoenigma wrote:

UAEflyer wrote:

Any idea who’s Jumbo is this mentioned in the article?
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... ior-2020-3

What a pretty business jet. Must be nice to have such a means.

Qatar government A7-HBJ

Airfleets.net suggest that the plane is stored and was last registered to Prince Sultan Bin Abdulaziz. He passed away just before delivery and NTU by Saudis.

Registration Delivery date Airline
HZ-HMS1 09/07/2012 Prince Sultan Bin Abdulaziz

The plane was ferried to Switzerland for customizing after the ntu by Saudis so maybe it sits as unused toy somewhere under the surreptitious ownership by Utah trustee.

aristoenigma wrote:

Airfleets.net suggest that the plane is stored and was last registered to Prince Sultan Bin Abdulaziz. He passed away just before delivery and NTU by Saudis.

Registration Delivery date Airline
HZ-HMS1 09/07/2012 Prince Sultan Bin Abdulaziz

The plane was ferried to Switzerland for customizing after the ntu by Saudis so maybe it sits as unused toy somewhere under the surreptitious ownership by Utah trustee.

My understanding is that the Saudi prince had paid for this plane before he died. The outfitting had not yet been started, which would mean that the fare of it would be in the Saudi’s hands, not Boeing’s. But if it is now owned by Boeing that would appear not to be the case. Am I wrong?

Whose livery is the opening photo in this article? It is also repeated at airplane 4 in the article.
https://briefly.co.za/58227-10-expensiv ... world.html

aristoenigma wrote:

Whose livery is the opening photo in this article? It is also repeated at airplane 4 in the article.
https://briefly.co.za/58227-10-expensiv ... world.html

It is the Sultan of Brunei's 747-8 V8-BKH. Side note, that article is quite inaccurate in several ways, as Air Force 1 (VC-25A) is far more expensive than an A340, and there is no VIP A380 in the world. Those are just two of the obvious mistakes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-45550537
Such generosity by Qatar and one of the nine 748 BBJs spoken for some time to come.

Saudia (SV, Jeddah) is seeking buyers for its two B747-8(F)s, after having kept the aircraft idle at Jeddah for more than half a year due to the high costs associated with operating just two units of the type, Cargo Facts has reported.

HZ-AI3 (msn 37562) and HZ-AI4 (msn 37563), both 7-year-old quadjets owned by Saudia, have been stored at Jeddah since January 5-6, 2020, Flightradar24 ADS-B data shows. However, the freighters ended revenue operations in December 2019.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -wet-lease

What about the LH NTU 748i?

SEPilot wrote:

What about the LH NTU 748i?

N828BA, stored at VCV, owned by Boeing, Lufthansa NTU.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N828BA

VCVSpotter wrote:

SEPilot wrote:

What about the LH NTU 748i?

N828BA, stored at VCV, owned by Boeing, Lufthansa NTU.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N828BA

That is what I thought, but it seemed to be left out of the previous discussion.

Anyone still interested in buying A7-HBJ?
Full specs: https://www.amacaerospace.com/wp-conten ... h_Spec.pdf

Hours since New - 1069:3 Flight Hours
Cycles since New - 297 Flight Cycles

danipawa wrote:

Saudia (SV, Jeddah) is seeking buyers for its two B747-8(F)s, after having kept the aircraft idle at Jeddah for more than half a year due to the high costs associated with operating just two units of the type, Cargo Facts has reported.

HZ-AI3 (msn 37562) and HZ-AI4 (msn 37563), both 7-year-old quadjets owned by Saudia, have been stored at Jeddah since January 5-6, 2020, Flightradar24 ADS-B data shows. However, the freighters ended revenue operations in December 2019.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -wet-lease

I would have thought that if there was as much demand for additional 748F aircraft as alluded too in the 748F thread... that these would have been sold without ever being listed publicly for sale.

Let's see if they sell quickly, or sit for a while. That will tell us a lot about actual demand for the 748F.

Have a great day,

2175301 wrote:

danipawa wrote:

Saudia (SV, Jeddah) is seeking buyers for its two B747-8(F)s, after having kept the aircraft idle at Jeddah for more than half a year due to the high costs associated with operating just two units of the type, Cargo Facts has reported.

HZ-AI3 (msn 37562) and HZ-AI4 (msn 37563), both 7-year-old quadjets owned by Saudia, have been stored at Jeddah since January 5-6, 2020, Flightradar24 ADS-B data shows. However, the freighters ended revenue operations in December 2019.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -wet-lease

I would have thought that if there was as much demand for additional 748F aircraft as alluded too in the 748F thread... that these would have been sold without ever being listed publicly for sale.

Let's see if they sell quickly, or sit for a while. That will tell us a lot about actual demand for the 748F.

Have a great day,

Indeed, sounds like a good test for the demand. Especially now, with dedicated cargo business going strong.

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Anyone still interested in buying A7-HBJ?
Full specs: https://www.amacaerospace.com/wp-conten ... h_Spec.pdf

Hours since New - 1069:3 Flight Hours
Cycles since New - 297 Flight Cycles

Wow who can afford to buy and operate a BJ like this other than an entire government preferably supported by an oil economy. It will be interesting to watch where this plane ends up with 747-8 demand deflating as it is.

SEPilot wrote:

aristoenigma wrote:

Airfleets.net suggest that the plane is stored and was last registered to Prince Sultan Bin Abdulaziz. He passed away just before delivery and NTU by Saudis.

Registration Delivery date Airline
HZ-HMS1 09/07/2012 Prince Sultan Bin Abdulaziz

The plane was ferried to Switzerland for customizing after the ntu by Saudis so maybe it sits as unused toy somewhere under the surreptitious ownership by Utah trustee.

My understanding is that the Saudi prince had paid for this plane before he died. The outfitting had not yet been started, which would mean that the fare of it would be in the Saudi’s hands, not Boeing’s. But if it is now owned by Boeing that would appear not to be the case. Am I wrong?

You were correct SEPilot. It has not been owned by Boeing. since 2012. That means the Saudis have had to store it in green form for nearly eight years. Hopefully it does not go to waste but with more efficient options for VIP planes maybe it will sit and eventually go to scrap unless an airline that flies 747-8is needs an extra.even amid waning demand. Maybe after COVID is solved.

This link says a 2016 747-8i is for sale with only test hours on it

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... eing-747-8

No identifiable info in ad.

Is this an airliner bought but not used by one of the three 747-8i users? 2016?

LOL at the used car salesman rhetoric: "FANTASTIC LOW PRICE AND QUICK DELIVERY!!!!
YOU WON'T FIND ANOTHER DEAL LIKE THIS ONE!!!!

aristoenigma wrote:

This link says a 2016 747-8i is for sale with only test hours on it

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... eing-747-8

No identifiable info in ad.

Is this an airliner bought but not used by one of the three 747-8i users? 2016?

Can anyone figure out which one it is from this list?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... /pub#gid=2

audidudi wrote:

aristoenigma wrote:

This link says a 2016 747-8i is for sale with only test hours on it

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... eing-747-8

No identifiable info in ad.

Is this an airliner bought but not used by one of the three 747-8i users? 2016?

Can anyone figure out which one it is from this list?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... /pub#gid=2

Guessing Korean Airlines later delivery. But who would buy a single new 748 pax? Could broker be setting up a beauty contest for USAF to test E4 replacement interest? KL would gladly unload 4 rather than store/park?

aristoenigma wrote:

audidudi wrote:

aristoenigma wrote:

This link says a 2016 747-8i is for sale with only test hours on it

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... eing-747-8

No identifiable info in ad.

Is this an airliner bought but not used by one of the three 747-8i users? 2016?

Can anyone figure out which one it is from this list?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... /pub#gid=2

Guessing Korean Airlines later delivery. But who would buy a single new 748 pax? Could broker be setting up a beauty contest for USAF to test E4 replacement interest? KL would gladly unload 4 rather than store/park?

Unfortunately, the reason the E-4s are still active is primarily because they are analog. I dont think the 747-8 would be an ideal replacement unless they stripped down all the systems to be EMP resistant.

Any idea what the A7-HHF will be like? Something different, or a brother from HBJ and HHE?