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Antaras
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Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:37 am

Vietnamese report https://zingnews.vn/giua-dich-covid-19-vietnam-airlines-xin-day-nhanh-mua-them-50-may-bay-post1073768.html?fbclid=IwAR1Y-KGcVZ8aXxckKy3mHGfXRgqPBs96Cm5axrRyTw_xW5ov8ZpbzTUZJ1o

VN's general manager, Dương Trí Thành, asked Vietnamese gov' to speed up the approval for its future order of 50 narrowbodies (aircraft type most likely A320/321neo), which worths approx $3.8 billion.
To be more specific, Thành said that a lot of carriers will cancel their orders due to this pandemic, and this will can't be a better chance for VN to order a bunch of aircraft, (have a nice discount) and get some soon deliveries. If there was no COVID-19, it might take 3-4 years for a carrier to receive its first aircraft from the order. However, with a large number of order cancellations, VN is obviously able to get some nice delivery slots. The boss also wants to place the order soon to "catch the trend" of the market after the pandemic, benefitting the carrier.
The aircraft are predicted to be delivered from 2021-2025 to Vietnam Airlines as well as its LCC subsidiary, Jetstar Pacific Airlines (at this moment VN is having a talk with QF about BL's future, including including the withdrawal of QF and Jetstar in this carrier).

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VN is being damaged hard by the coronavirus. The carrier is operating only three domestic routes (HAN-DAD-SGN), with a small number of int'l flights, mainly repatriation flights. Currently, VN is having 1000 pilots and 3000 flight attendants have to stay at home. VN also seeks for government's help, including the removal of taxes, as well as direct financial support.

How do you think about that? Is it a "risky but clever" choice for VN, or is it "stupid and simply making no sense"?
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scbriml
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:06 pm

Could be a smart move. Assuming they survive, they would be well placed come the recovery (whenever that might be).
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lhrnue
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:14 pm

Where there is risk, there is always opportunity too.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:15 pm

scbriml wrote:
Could be a smart move. Assuming they survive, they would be well placed come the recovery (whenever that might be).

Of course they'll survive.
As VN holds special political meaning and missions, the gov' won't never let this state-owned flag carrier die.
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TaromA380
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:30 pm

They can obviously negotiate good prices these times. However, they will do this as captives of a monopoly market.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:40 pm

lhrnue wrote:
Where there is risk, there is always opportunity too.

OMG yes! The negotiating leverage is amazing right now.

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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:57 pm

lightsaber wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
Where there is risk, there is always opportunity too.

OMG yes! The negotiating leverage is amazing right now.

Lightsaber

Of course, VN will easily get a remarkably discount by simply told Aib that "Dude I don't have much money now, can I get a discount? :white: "
Airbus, of course, will be happy as it will recieve the first order since the last few months.
About VN, besides the discount, this is a good chance to PR itself. While other carriers are drowning to death, there is suddenly a single carrier coming from nowhere going to the shopping mall and acquiring some new toys. This order might become a bright spot of the aviation industrie those days, and VN might (temporarily) consider itself as the richest guys nowadays :whistleblower: :duck: [j4f]
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Zinu
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:01 pm

scbriml wrote:
Could be a smart move. Assuming they survive, they would be well placed come the recovery (whenever that might be).


The Vietnamese Government currently owns approx. 86% of the share and I think that it will be unlikely that the Party and Government leadership will let the flag carrier collapse.

During this pandemic, the Vietnamese press have already painted a good image of VN and its staff for being the frontline workers carrying out repatriation flights to rescue Vietnamese nationals from oversea hotspots as well as transporting Vietnamese sponsored aids to China and Europe. I think that letting VN survive is also a political mission that will need to be done.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:13 pm

I'll be happy to see this if true, VN is a pretty well-run airline and I've had good experiences with them. I wonder if they'll go for the A321XLR, would be useful in the post-apocalyptic world for a fair few new routes. Vietnam will probably bounce back fairly quickly once everything dies down (hopefully soon!), if that is the case then new A32Xneos will be handy.
Last edited by 777ER on Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aither
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:20 pm

Countries like Vietnam without aviation would be back to agriculture only production.
So it's simple, there are not many alternatives:
You believe in a recovery within the next 3-4 years: you prepare it now even and you take a calculated risk of losing big money.
You don't believe in a recovery : the money of everybody is going to be lost anyway.
Never trust the obvious
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:26 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
I'll be happy to see this if true, VN is a pretty well-run airline and I've had good experiences with them. I wonder if they'll go for the A321XLR, would be useful in the post-apocalyptic world for a fair few new routes. Vietnam will probably bounce back fairly quickly once everything dies down (hopefully soon!), if that is the case then new A32Xneos will be handy.

I worry a little for the A350 at VN, the 787 seems a bit better suited to them with the 78X fulfilling all range needs bar FRA, LHR and CDG, the latter the only one operated by the A350 (recently).


About the A321XLR, seems like VN fall in love with this airframe. Have a look at this Flightglobal interview with Mr.Thành, also the one who was mentioned in this topic :D
Last edited by 777ER on Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:54 pm

VN is leasing 20 A321neo, with 5 more A320neo on leasing orders (wait, this is making no sense as VN once said that the A320 were quite small for its ops; or those A320neo will go to BL perhaps).
While it seems unlikely for VN to order the MAX, I think that there is a real chance that VN will order those troublesome airframes for political reasons (Trump would be happy if VN order some dozens, no doubt :duck:). Noted that VN didn't announce its choice, despite the fact that it will likely choose the neo.
Or maybe VN will order both (exactly the same thing with its orders of 789 and 359 a decade ago). I am expecting mix orders of Max 8/9/10 alongside with the A320/321neo (especially the XLR).

Not to mention VN's plan to acquire some dozens of regional jet. The E190 E2 seems like the only choice for VN, as VN wants some 100-seaters which are operational on 1500m-1800m runways (the A220 was said a little bit to big, the CRJ is making no more sense, and the Japanese SpaceJet project is being delayed and delayed).
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:02 pm

That could cost traffic rights.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:12 am

Aither wrote:
Countries like Vietnam without aviation would be back to agriculture only production.
So it's simple, there are not many alternatives:
You believe in a recovery within the next 3-4 years: you prepare it now even and you take a calculated risk of losing big money.
You don't believe in a recovery : the money of everybody is going to be lost anyway.

Sounds like North Korea...
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Sokes
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:10 am

Aither wrote:
You believe in a recovery within the next 3-4 years: you prepare it now even and you take a calculated risk of losing big money.
You don't believe in a recovery : the money of everybody is going to be lost anyway.

That's something to think about.


seahawk wrote:
That could cost traffic rights.

I don't understand. Can you expand?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:44 am

Seems like we just have a clean up....
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:45 am

seahawk wrote:
That could cost traffic rights.

More specific, please.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:59 am

Airbus' announcement of production cuts should reflect demand for its product NET OF expected new orders and cancellations. (You can argue they cut too much. One can also question if they have cut enough in one step given the politicization of layoffs.) That means there really shouldn't be a vast surplus of available delivery slots - production should be right-sized to new demand levels.

If they really want XLRs instead of neos, they will be waiting until 2023+, anyway.

Low labor costs and a backstop of government money are nice but I really don't see SE Asia needing another hub. If they plan to cater to O&D traffic (to, from, and within Vietnam), great.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:16 pm

Antaras wrote:
seahawk wrote:
That could cost traffic rights.

More specific, please.


It will all depend on how other countries handle problems with their own airlines, but I can see countries re-thinking traffic rights if some foreign airlines profits from the crisis by getting a huge amount of government money and way more than needed to keep the status from 2019.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:45 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Airbus' announcement of production cuts should reflect demand for its product NET OF expected new orders and cancellations. (You can argue they cut too much. One can also question if they have cut enough in one step given the politicization of layoffs.) That means there really shouldn't be a vast surplus of available delivery slots - production should be right-sized to new demand levels.

If they really want XLRs instead of neos, they will be waiting until 2023+, anyway.

Low labor costs and a backstop of government money are nice but I really don't see SE Asia needing another hub. If they plan to cater to O&D traffic (to, from, and within Vietnam), great.


However, VN might has chance to have a damn good discount while negotiating at this moment. Agree that the VN's managers might have missed the news that Aib is cutting its production rate.
About the XLRs, VN will order a maximum of a dozen. It is ridiculous that VN will order up to 50 XLRs. Remember that Vietnamese domestic market is huge, and the regular-A321neo are simply enough.

I am doubt about the government's plan to turn the future Long Thành Int'l Airport (dozens of miles from SGN) into a new "transition hub" of ASEAN, as the region has enough hubs: SIN, BKK, HKG.
However the Viet Gov' is quite confident with that plan; that's why the gov is having some good policies to support the development of VJ, VN and QH.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:51 pm

seahawk wrote:
Antaras wrote:
seahawk wrote:
That could cost traffic rights.

More specific, please.


It will all depend on how other countries handle problems with their own airlines, but I can see countries re-thinking traffic rights if some foreign airlines profits from the crisis by getting a huge amount of government money and way more than needed to keep the status from 2019.

I have seen exactly zero countries removing others' traffic right purely because a particular company receives government money, or otherwise you could literally remove everyone's traffic right now as virtually all airlines receive govenment money in one way or another during this pandamic. (Unless they went bankrupt of course).

Michael
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:46 pm

seahawk wrote:
Antaras wrote:
seahawk wrote:
That could cost traffic rights.

More specific, please.


It will all depend on how other countries handle problems with their own airlines, but I can see countries re-thinking traffic rights if some foreign airlines profits from the crisis by getting a huge amount of government money and way more than needed to keep the status from 2019.


Almost no "foreign carriers" in Vietnam, except Jetstar Pacific (owned 70% by VN and 30% by QF-JQ). However, BL might soon become a full-Vietnamese carrier as Qantas sets to offload its stakes in this carrier.
So all Vietnamese-based carriers will be benefitted (or slapped) from gov's policies.
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memphiX
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:35 pm

I think this is a clear headed, calculated move with Vietjet in their sight.
VN is the gov's poster child, I don't think they will have problem with money.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:57 am

memphiX wrote:
I think this is a clear headed, calculated move with Vietjet in their sight.
VN is the gov's poster child, I don't think they will have problem with money.


Of course VN won't have problem with money as it has access to the gov's wallet.

However, there is doubt in Vietnam that the gov has treated VN and other carriers unfairly.

Base on the Vietnamese aviation laws approved a few years ago:
All carriers will be treated fairly by the Socialist Republic of Vietnam Government


The mentioned rule require that if the gov financially support VN, other carriers such as QH, VJ should be treated the same.

Of course buying planes is not a problem with VN and gov (as VN has to be approved by the gov for large purchases, and the aircraft have to be acquired by VN's owned money, no gov's stuff here). However, VN is also seeking for financial support, which is now harder than years ago due to the law, and there is a chance that gov will give VN nothing.

However, pretend that the gov' fully support VN, the flag-carrier can be back-to-the-track with QH and VJ. VJ was already having bigger market share, QH is predicted to become a redoubtable opponent with its ambitious plans and order book.
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Ishrion
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:53 pm

AirAsia has given up four A320neo and to A321neo aircraft which were set to be delivered in June. Could Vietnam Airlines take these?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2221R2
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:42 am

Ishrion wrote:
AirAsia has given up four A320neo and to A321neo aircraft which were set to be delivered in June. Could Vietnam Airlines take these?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2221R2


VN is a Pratt-Whitney's operator...
Let's see if VN takes those airframes, as CAAV suggested VN (as well as VJ) to give up on PW as those powerplants have caused too much trouble...
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potter787
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:43 am

Very smart but risky move by VN. How this will play out depend on how long social distancing measure be in place and how long it takes for the air travel demand to recover
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:48 am

potter787 wrote:
Very smart but risky move by VN. How this will play out depend on how long social distancing measure be in place and how long it takes for the air travel demand to recover


Lockdown restrictioms in Vietnam are reportedly being lifted somewhat soon. Given the low number of cases in the country I expect domestic demand to recover fairly quickly. International travel may take a while yet to get even close to what it was before.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:53 am

potter787 wrote:
Very smart but risky move by VN. How this will play out depend on how long social distancing measure be in place and how long it takes for the air travel demand to recover

I predict that the Vietnamese domestic market might start recovering in the next 3 weeks, as the pandemic is fully (?) controlled in Vietnam, the social distancing rule will be lifted in the next few days.
I guess that when recieve those airframes from the order (in the next 1, 2 or 3 years) the domestic market would be fully recovered, and that's how VN on top of other competitors such as VJ and QH, who have large numbers of aircraft on order/proposal.
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potter787
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:03 am

Domestic demand will recover quite quickly and however international demand is uncertain. VN is trying to lease out their A350 and 787 but I am not sure if there is any taker. So my bet is that they will use those birds for domestic trunk routes.

Looking at 3-4 years, QH might not even exist anymore with their level of debt. The market might be back to a duopoly between VN and VJ
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:33 pm

potter787 wrote:
Domestic demand will recover quite quickly and however international demand is uncertain. VN is trying to lease out their A350 and 787 but I am not sure if there is any taker. So my bet is that they will use those birds for domestic trunk routes.

Looking at 3-4 years, QH might not even exist anymore with their level of debt. The market might be back to a duopoly between VN and VJ

Well VN can find no trouble surviving with just the hige domestic market. International routes, hmmm, suprisingly that market is not extremely significant for VN.
No customer for the 787/350s so I guess VN will return some of those airframes to the lessor, as its widebodies fleet is suffering from overcapacity.

VJ? Yes, a worthy opponent. While Bamboo's survival is doubtful, VN has to own enough airframes to take market shares from VJ, which has more than 300 jets on order.
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Reddevil556
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:33 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
potter787 wrote:
Very smart but risky move by VN. How this will play out depend on how long social distancing measure be in place and how long it takes for the air travel demand to recover


Lockdown restrictioms in Vietnam are reportedly being lifted somewhat soon. Given the low number of cases in the country I expect domestic demand to recover fairly quickly. International travel may take a while yet to get even close to what it was before.


Given the inconsistency internationally of reporting and testing, the curve “won’t” flatten any time soon. Italy was supposedly improving a month ago. Still hasn’t drastically improved. The same is true in the US. Travel isn’t picking up any time soon, even domestically.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:35 pm

Reddevil556 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
potter787 wrote:
Very smart but risky move by VN. How this will play out depend on how long social distancing measure be in place and how long it takes for the air travel demand to recover


Lockdown restrictioms in Vietnam are reportedly being lifted somewhat soon. Given the low number of cases in the country I expect domestic demand to recover fairly quickly. International travel may take a while yet to get even close to what it was before.


Given the inconsistency internationally of reporting and testing, the curve “won’t” flatten any time soon. Italy was supposedly improving a month ago. Still hasn’t drastically improved. The same is true in the US. Travel isn’t picking up any time soon, even domestically.

Of course when Vietnam didn't open the border (it is closed now, only open for repatriation flights), things inside Vietnam would be ok.
That also means that no international market.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:59 pm

Antaras wrote:
Well VN can find no trouble surviving with just the hige domestic market. International routes, hmmm, suprisingly that market is not extremely significant for VN.
No customer for the 787/350s so I guess VN will return some of those airframes to the lessor, as its widebodies fleet is suffering from overcapacity.

VJ? Yes, a worthy opponent. While Bamboo's survival is doubtful, VN has to own enough airframes to take market shares from VJ, which has more than 300 jets on order.



International routes contribute 2/3 of VN revenue ( 2017 data and these few years int growth rate is higher than domestic). I wouldn't say that it's not significant. https://www.vietnamairlines.com/~/media/FilesDownload/AboutUs/Investor-Relations/Bao-Cao-Thuong-Nien/bao-cao-thuong-nien-2017-up-web.pdf

The competition with VJ, the question would be whether how much capacity VN market can asborb. even if VJ order 300 airplanes, they would not want to drive down the price too much.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:06 pm

On those A20/A21N AirAsia NTU airframes, I see Bamboo Airways as more likely, as Bamboo is a CFM operator.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:41 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
On those A20/A21N AirAsia NTU airframes, I see Bamboo Airways as more likely, as Bamboo is a CFM operator.

Agree. This is also a golden chance for QH getting some money by SnLB.
This could help this carrier a lot as it has been in big financial trouble since the pandemic. I have known that it has "sacrificed" 49% of its stake to an unknown buyer, to get some money. Ironically that deal made QH the only profitable Vietnamese carrier in 1Q2020 :rotfl:
potter787 wrote:
Antaras wrote:
Well VN can find no trouble surviving with just the hige domestic market. International routes, hmmm, suprisingly that market is not extremely significant for VN.
No customer for the 787/350s so I guess VN will return some of those airframes to the lessor, as its widebodies fleet is suffering from overcapacity.

VJ? Yes, a worthy opponent. While Bamboo's survival is doubtful, VN has to own enough airframes to take market shares from VJ, which has more than 300 jets on order.



International routes contribute 2/3 of VN revenue ( 2017 data and these few years int growth rate is higher than domestic). I wouldn't say that it's not significant. https://www.vietnamairlines.com/~/media/FilesDownload/AboutUs/Investor-Relations/Bao-Cao-Thuong-Nien/bao-cao-thuong-nien-2017-up-web.pdf

The competition with VJ, the question would be whether how much capacity VN market can asborb. even if VJ order 300 airplanes, they would not want to drive down the price too much.

The int'l market may be more significant with VN than my expectation.However, I think that the domestic market might be enough for VN's survival. For example you made $10, with $3 from domestic market and $7 from int'l market. If you just need $2 to survive, the domestic is enough.

However I want to see when will the market recover. Things in aviation making no more sense those days....
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:04 pm

CAAV is asking the government for the reopening of the domestic routes from 23 April.
I wonder if Vietnam sucessfully solve to Covid-19 pandemic, will this be a nice chance for VN to get on top of other foreign carriers, especially similar-in-size Asian carriers such as TG. Simply the less damage, the faster and easier is your recovery.
Besides that, Vietnam will have the reputation for being a safe place, which helps the development of the tourism market.
I saw a real chance for VN as well as other carriers in this pandemic, especially when everything due to restart, the Vietnamese carriers start first.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:54 pm

Antaras wrote:
CAAV is asking the government for the reopening of the domestic routes from 23 April.
I wonder if Vietnam sucessfully solve to Covid-19 pandemic, will this be a nice chance for VN to get on top of other foreign carriers, especially similar-in-size Asian carriers such as TG. Simply the less damage, the faster and easier is your recovery.
Besides that, Vietnam will have the reputation for being a safe place, which helps the development of the tourism market.
I saw a real chance for VN as well as other carriers in this pandemic, especially when everything due to restart, the Vietnamese carriers start first.


A clear advantage for Vietnam carriers is the size of their narrow-body fleets, especially Vietnam Airlines and its A321 fleet. Thai Airways only flies wide-bodies when narrow-bodies would be suitable on many routes.
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:45 pm

I'm sure airbus will have plenty production slots available.
Good moaning!
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:05 am

PepeTheFrog wrote:
I'm sure airbus will have plenty production slots available.

Airbus cutted the production rate and we won't know is there "plenty of slots available".
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MrHMSH
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:46 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Antaras wrote:
CAAV is asking the government for the reopening of the domestic routes from 23 April.
I wonder if Vietnam sucessfully solve to Covid-19 pandemic, will this be a nice chance for VN to get on top of other foreign carriers, especially similar-in-size Asian carriers such as TG. Simply the less damage, the faster and easier is your recovery.
Besides that, Vietnam will have the reputation for being a safe place, which helps the development of the tourism market.
I saw a real chance for VN as well as other carriers in this pandemic, especially when everything due to restart, the Vietnamese carriers start first.


A clear advantage for Vietnam carriers is the size of their narrow-body fleets, especially Vietnam Airlines and its A321 fleet. Thai Airways only flies wide-bodies when narrow-bodies would be suitable on many routes.


TG are a fleet planner's nightmare, but a plane enthusiast's dream! VN's fleet is pretty streamlined. I wonder if they'll take a mix of A320neos as well as more A321neos, seems like a smart choice.
 
questions
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:51 am

MrHMSH wrote:
TG are a fleet planner's nightmare...


TG’s fleet or TG’s executive team that makes fleet decisions?
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:07 am

questions wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
TG are a fleet planner's nightmare...


TG’s fleet or TG’s executive team that makes fleet decisions?

I think that the fleet plan has to be approved by the management board, the gov.....
I don't know whoever decides TG's fleet plans. I just know that TG's fleet is a mess....
Truly a mess. The biggest mess of ASEAN.
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thaisalem
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:31 am

Thanks for the Topic, the issue is the government process to approve this big package purchase will not be quick anyhow.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:57 am

thaisalem wrote:
Thanks for the Topic, the issue is the government process to approve this big package purchase will not be quick anyhow.

That is everything VN asking for:

VN's general manager, Dương Trí Thành, asked Vietnamese gov' to speed up the approval for its future order of 50 narrowbodies (aircraft type most likely A320/321neo), which worths approx $3.8 billion.


However VN have been asking the gov for half a year (since October), and the gov said that they are in "the final step of the approval process". We could see VN being approved in the next "few" weeks, I guess.
:duck:
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:46 am

Antaras wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
I'm sure airbus will have plenty production slots available.

Airbus cutted the production rate and we won't know is there "plenty of slots available".


Airbus are still building white tails though. For example, Air Asia's undelivered A320's are up for sale.
Good moaning!
 
thaisalem
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:00 am

Antaras wrote:
thaisalem wrote:
Thanks for the Topic, the issue is the government process to approve this big package purchase will not be quick anyhow.

That is everything VN asking for:

VN's general manager, Dương Trí Thành, asked Vietnamese gov' to speed up the approval for its future order of 50 narrowbodies (aircraft type most likely A320/321neo), which worths approx $3.8 billion.


However VN have been asking the gov for half a year (since October), and the gov said that they are in "the final step of the approval process". We could see VN being approved in the next "few" weeks, I guess.
:duck:

Thanks, what i got is the plan is now in Vietnamese Ministry of Planning and Investment then need to wait for this Ministry to take the evaluation process, submit to PM....then report back. Not sure if this can be done in few weeks.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:25 am

thaisalem wrote:
Antaras wrote:
thaisalem wrote:
Thanks for the Topic, the issue is the government process to approve this big package purchase will not be quick anyhow.

That is everything VN asking for:

VN's general manager, Dương Trí Thành, asked Vietnamese gov' to speed up the approval for its future order of 50 narrowbodies (aircraft type most likely A320/321neo), which worths approx $3.8 billion.


However VN have been asking the gov for half a year (since October), and the gov said that they are in "the final step of the approval process". We could see VN being approved in the next "few" weeks, I guess.
:duck:

Thanks, what i got is the plan is now in Vietnamese Ministry of Planning and Investment then need to wait for this Ministry to take the evaluation process, submit to PM....then report back. Not sure if this can be done in few weeks.

That is how we call "Vietnamese style" :duck:
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WayexTDI
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:56 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
Antaras wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
I'm sure airbus will have plenty production slots available.

Airbus cutted the production rate and we won't know is there "plenty of slots available".


Airbus are still building white tails though. For example, Air Asia's undelivered A320's are up for sale.

Are they really building white tails (a.k.a. aircraft with no pre-assigned customer when it enters FAL), or were those aircraft orphaned after going through FAL?
Sounds like the latter, where AirAsia decided to not take the aircraft after they've been completed or were in final stages of completion.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Vietnam Airlines wants to speed up its order of 50 narrowbodies amid COVID-19

Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:02 am

WayexTDI wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
Antaras wrote:
Airbus cutted the production rate and we won't know is there "plenty of slots available".


Airbus are still building white tails though. For example, Air Asia's undelivered A320's are up for sale.

Are they really building white tails (a.k.a. aircraft with no pre-assigned customer when it enters FAL), or were those aircraft orphaned after going through FAL?
Sounds like the latter, where AirAsia decided to not take the aircraft after they've been completed or were in final stages of completion.

Airbus has no reason to build white-tails. In fact there would be lot of white-tails in the next few months, but mainly ntu frames.

I don't think VN will take up those white tail. VN has chosen PW1130G-JM for its current A321-272N, and I expect that VN will keep that engines option in the order (all VN's A321neos are now leased). However, that engine choice is quite rare (only NH and VN), so it is unlikely for a white-tail would be equipped with VN's ideal option.
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