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DIJKKIJK
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Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:45 am

I don't know if this topic has been discussed before, but here goes.

Why didn't Boeing consider developing the 757 as a competitor to the A320NEO/A321NEO? Consider these:

1. It would have been much easier to accomodate the LEAP engine under the wing without having to twist and push it into place.
2. The 757MAX could have competed very well with the A321NEO, while a shortened version (757MAX 2?)could have gone head to head with the A320NEO quite easily.

Of course, there would have been issues with crew training and type certifications, but that would not have been an issue with former 757 operators. Airlines operating 737NGs would have had to re-train their crews but isn't that better than keeping planes on the ground?

I don't know what I have missed. Should Boeing have gone this route? What stopped them?
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:51 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
I don't know if this topic has been discussed before, but here goes.


:rotfl:

Your profile says you've been a member for 17 years. I can't believe you haven't seen at least one of the endless "757MAX" threads. I am genuinely shocked, as the topic has been beaten to death.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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DIJKKIJK
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:07 am

scbriml wrote:
DIJKKIJK wrote:
I don't know if this topic has been discussed before, but here goes.


:rotfl:

Your profile says you've been a member for 17 years. I can't believe you haven't seen at least one of the endless "757MAX" threads. I am genuinely shocked, as the topic has been beaten to death.


There is a difference between being a member for a long time and being a 'frequent visitor' :)
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:09 am

Fact: this is the 7749th thread about something called "757Max", "757X", and "re-engined 757"
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:14 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
I don't know if this topic has been discussed before, but here goes.


The Déjà Vu is too much.
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BlueberryWheats
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:16 am

This was bound to happen. With lockdown and fleets of planes parked up we've run out of stuff to talk about.

Now, how about those NW DC-9's...
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:29 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
I don't know if this topic has been discussed before, but here goes.

Why didn't Boeing consider developing the 757 as a competitor to the A320NEO/A321NEO? Consider these:

1. It would have been much easier to accomodate the LEAP engine under the wing without having to twist and push it into place.
2. The 757MAX could have competed very well with the A321NEO, while a shortened version (757MAX 2?)could have gone head to head with the A320NEO quite easily.

Of course, there would have been issues with crew training and type certifications, but that would not have been an issue with former 757 operators. Airlines operating 737NGs would have had to re-train their crews but isn't that better than keeping planes on the ground?

I don't know what I have missed. Should Boeing have gone this route? What stopped them?


The 757 is severely overbuilt and overweight to complete with the A32X family. It isn't just a matter of fitting a new engine, the 757 is in reality more a narrower and lighter 767 than a true narrowbody. The engines are derivatives of those found on a widebody, rather than a narrowbody. In fact, no P&W GTF or CFM Leap-X even gets close to the amount of power a 757 requires.

Don't forget, the basic A321 killed off the 757 already in the 1990s. Why would it be any different now that the A321 got even more capable?
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:32 am

scbriml wrote:
Your profile says you've been a member for 17 years. I can't believe you haven't seen at least one of the endless "757MAX" threads. I am genuinely shocked, as the topic has been beaten to death.


Not only beaten to death, but shaken like a British Nanny. :rotfl:
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:35 am

Why didn't Boeing consider it? They probably did, but there are many good reasons they chose not to:

- The tooling for production had been discarded, would have been expensive to start it up.
- The 757 was too heavy to compete with the A321 on shorter routes, that would not change with equal engine technology.
- The market for routes that the 757 could fly but the A321 couldn't was minimal. Issues aside the 737 MAX filled the space OK.
- The 757 was too large to compete with the A320, though the A321neo is massively successful, narrowbodies still centre around MAX 8/A320neo size.

At the end of the day there was a reason 757 production ceased, not enough airlines wanted it. Any demand for those longer routes has been satisfied by existing 757s and 767s anyway, the A321XLR will take a chunk in the future. Though it's a lovely aircraft that's popular with pilots and its fans, that's not enough reason to keep it in production.

Though apparently that love is still enough to inspire the 757,200th thread about restarting production or keeping it as a neo competitor.
 
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:38 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
This was bound to happen. With lockdown and fleets of planes parked up we've run out of stuff to talk about.

Now, how about those NW DC-9's...


I miss the threads on NW's DC-9s.

I thought they were going to fly back on a DC-9 after retiring an A320 to the boneyard.
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:42 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
There is a difference between being a member for a long time and being a 'frequent visitor' :)



I’m sure you’ve gathered by now the question has been raised a lot.

From memory, the 757 programme was killed off after 911 due to lack of demand by airlines (happy to stand corrected on this). Henceforth, all tooling and production facilities were recycled for other use, thereby completely killing the production line.

And while the 757 did possess some unique abilities in its time, the majority of those have now been replicated, and improved on, by the A321NEO(LR/XLR).

Boeing have been bandying about the NMA for some time, which in many cases would be a 757 and a 767 successor (to some degree), but they’re frying bigger fish at this point in time. Probably won’t hear much about it for some time, I think.
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:46 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
This was bound to happen. With lockdown and fleets of planes parked up we've run out of stuff to talk about.

Now, how about those NW DC-9's...


That might be a fun thread to speculate on: what is/was the most repetitive series of threads on a.net?
 
fessor
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:52 am

Boeing Should have gone for a Cleansheet design and then waited with the 777X the 737 design is milked to the end.
But sometimes companies need to make mistakes and learn from these.
The same way Airbus made a mistake with the 340NG .
So now they need to get the best of the MAX and then they will be able to in the future to come up with something new.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:58 am

VSMUT wrote:
DIJKKIJK wrote:
I don't know if this topic has been discussed before, but here goes.

Why didn't Boeing consider developing the 757 as a competitor to the A320NEO/A321NEO? Consider these:

1. It would have been much easier to accomodate the LEAP engine under the wing without having to twist and push it into place.
2. The 757MAX could have competed very well with the A321NEO, while a shortened version (757MAX 2?)could have gone head to head with the A320NEO quite easily.

Of course, there would have been issues with crew training and type certifications, but that would not have been an issue with former 757 operators. Airlines operating 737NGs would have had to re-train their crews but isn't that better than keeping planes on the ground?

I don't know what I have missed. Should Boeing have gone this route? What stopped them?


The 757 is severely overbuilt and overweight to complete with the A32X family. It isn't just a matter of fitting a new engine, the 757 is in reality more a narrower and lighter 767 than a true narrowbody. The engines are derivatives of those found on a widebody, rather than a narrowbody. In fact, no P&W GTF or CFM Leap-X even gets close to the amount of power a 757 requires.

Don't forget, the basic A321 killed off the 757 already in the 1990s. Why would it be any different now that the A321 got even more capable?


The A321 was not nearly as capable in the 1990's as it is today. Airlines were still ordering 757's in the early 2000's.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:05 am

The fact they destroyed all the old parts manufacture for the model would greatly add to cost. Along with no new engine in the pieline for the catagory.
 
chiad
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:07 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

The A321 was not nearly as capable in the 1990's as it is today. Airlines were still ordering 757's in the early 2000's.


9-11 was the last nail in the B757 coffin. Only one order for 7 units after that (in 2003).
 
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:18 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
This was bound to happen. With lockdown and fleets of planes parked up we've run out of stuff to talk about.

Now, how about those NW DC-9's...


Northwest did a great refurbished to near new when the re-skinned, redid the interiors & rebuilt parts on those DC9's. When they were done they were considered like new. With their metal fabrication center doing the work it was cheaper than new replacement models by a long run. It was a good idea at the time.
 
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Ty134A
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:56 am

Yes and no. 752 definitly doesn‘t make sense to be maxed. A 753 would be competitive with an 321Neo on casm basis, but would require massive redesign. Especially considering the extreme turn around times when not containerized. So this leaves a few question marks for the ops profile. And then again, it would be more of a threat to 788 than to 321N. So would a 753 Max make sense? Yes maybe, would it be better than a neo? Maybe, but only on certain missions. The main question in the end is: would it be better than a 73max? The answer to that is no, the 737 mich more flexible. It is not the 737s fault that boeing killed its pax for the sake of max profits...
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:00 am

Maybe everything would've been different if we still had the old-Boeing.
You know, before MD bought Boeing with Boeings money?
I think that is a subject that hasn't been discussed before, let's start.
 
CPHGuard
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:14 am

I haven't seen a "When will Fokker/Rekkof restart production of the F100" thread for a loooong time ;)
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:27 am

The 757MAX would have had a range well over 5000nm. It wouldn't have been able to compete with the A321NEO on short haul but the 757MAX would have been in a class of its own.

The problem was the 757 ended production in 2004. The Pratt GTF first flew in 2013. So the 757MAX would have engines half a generation behind the A321NEO. 10 years ago there was no market for a 5000nm range narrowbody. Today it would sell like hotcakes.

I actually think discounted 737NG's could have kept selling past 2025 until a full cleansheet came out.
 
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Blimpie
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:34 am

Pft, 757MAX, I got a better chance of seeing a 727MAX before that will ever happen. Of course, while we are reviving dead Boeing, let's go all in on a 707MAX, you know for the same retro crowd who were all about the PT Cruiser, the New Beetle, the Prowler, and the relaunch Ford Thunderbird. Retro is in this century

/s
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MADPYRO
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:41 am

MrHMSH wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
This was bound to happen. With lockdown and fleets of planes parked up we've run out of stuff to talk about.

Now, how about those NW DC-9's...


That might be a fun thread to speculate on: what is/was the most repetitive series of threads on a.net?


How about NW's B747-200s/DC-10s?
A319/A320/A321/A388/B737/B738/B744/B752/B772/E190/F70
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:54 am

RJMAZ wrote:
The 757MAX would have had a range well over 5000nm. It wouldn't have been able to compete with the A321NEO on short haul but the 757MAX would have been in a class of its own.

The problem was the 757 ended production in 2004. The Pratt GTF first flew in 2013. So the 757MAX would have engines half a generation behind the A321NEO. 10 years ago there was no market for a 5000nm range narrowbody. Today it would sell like hotcakes.

I actually think discounted 737NG's could have kept selling past 2025 until a full cleansheet came out.


I think it would have been a painful 15 years for Boeing if they had kept the 737NG going until 2025. Airlines told Boeing they weren't willing to wait, because at the time fuel prices were high. Airbus would have snagged a lot of customers before the new aircraft could enter service, really narrowing its user base, and Airbus would - again - have second mover advantage.
 
chiad
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:02 am

RJMAZ wrote:
The 757MAX would have had a range well over 5000nm. It wouldn't have been able to compete with the A321NEO on short haul but the 757MAX would have been in a class of its own.

The problem was the 757 ended production in 2004. The Pratt GTF first flew in 2013. So the 757MAX would have engines half a generation behind the A321NEO. 10 years ago there was no market for a 5000nm range narrowbody. Today it would sell like hotcakes.

I actually think discounted 737NG's could have kept selling past 2025 until a full cleansheet came out.


Competing on range is just one of the parameters.
Fuel burn and maintenace cost is key why the B757MAX would stand a change against the A321NEO.
 
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:04 am

chiad wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

The A321 was not nearly as capable in the 1990's as it is today. Airlines were still ordering 757's in the early 2000's.


9-11 was the last nail in the B757 coffin. Only one order for 7 units after that (in 2003).


Agreed.

The 321s in the 90s were dogs that couldnt get to an optimal cruise altitude on long flights

The stretched 737 (with fleet commonality) and airlines looking to streamline fleets post 9.11 killed the 757.

The 757 was a beautiful airplane, it was just 1980s technology. Which, obviously is adaptable.

Who would’ve known Boeing had painted themselves into a corner? The whole idea worked well until the early 2010s
 
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:16 am

MrHMSH wrote:

That might be a fun thread to speculate on: what is/was the most repetitive series of threads on a.net?


I propose the multi-purpose "Why no__________?" category of topic questions.

Or how DTW fanboys manage to turn a topic about Air Madagascar into an argument about DTW's appalling treatment by DL.
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Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
boeingcorp
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:01 pm

the 757 is a very sexy airplane much more then the 737 in my opinion it has a higher weight to thrust ratio and newer cockpit layout then then 737 which made its debut in 1968 as opposed to 1982 for the 757 its also is much easier to land because on the 737 max fuselage length and low ground clearance makes it hard flair for a smooth landing, a updated 757 with composite components a redesigned wing with advanced wiglets and engines which was not available in 1978 during the initial engineering of the 757 would have made it a good competitor in today's market but when Boeing shut done the assemble line and destroyed the jigs that will never happen but its always interesting to imagine what it would have been like
 
marcogr12
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:02 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
The 757MAX would have had a range well over 5000nm. It wouldn't have been able to compete with the A321NEO on short haul but the 757MAX would have been in a class of its own.

The problem was the 757 ended production in 2004. The Pratt GTF first flew in 2013. So the 757MAX would have engines half a generation behind the A321NEO. 10 years ago there was no market for a 5000nm range narrowbody. Today it would sell like hotcakes.

I actually think discounted 737NG's could have kept selling past 2025 until a full cleansheet came out.


I think it would have been a painful 15 years for Boeing if they had kept the 737NG going until 2025. Airlines told Boeing they weren't willing to wait, because at the time fuel prices were high. Airbus would have snagged a lot of customers before the new aircraft could enter service, really narrowing its user base, and Airbus would - again - have second mover advantage.


And yet, as it turned out with the MAX fiasco, airlines turned to Airbus again and more are thinking about it since the "when the MAX will fly again SAFELY?" question has no answer...
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
airlinerart
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:03 pm

No. Next question.
 
Max Q
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:30 pm

The 757 was and is a very good aircraft that Boeing should have persevered with and developed


Shutting down the production line was a huge mistake
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:33 pm

MADPYRO wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
This was bound to happen. With lockdown and fleets of planes parked up we've run out of stuff to talk about.

Now, how about those NW DC-9's...


That might be a fun thread to speculate on: what is/was the most repetitive series of threads on a.net?


How about NW's B747-200s/DC-10s?


These days the new version of the NW DC-9 threads are the DL Boeing 717 retirement threads...

As per the main question... the Boeing 757 was a very successful aircraft, and it still would be today... it fills two markets, with those being lower demand transoceanic flights, and higher demand regional flights (these high demand regional flights make the 757 a great aircraft for hubs like ATL) - these combinations in possible markets allow for the 757 to be used almost all day and all night. Today, these aircraft could have filled the type of market that Norwegian fills - long haul, low cost, and point to point flights.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
EC135C
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:53 pm

DIJKKIJK wrote:
scbriml wrote:
DIJKKIJK wrote:
I don't know if this topic has been discussed before, but here goes.


:rotfl:

Your profile says you've been a member for 17 years. I can't believe you haven't seen at least one of the endless "757MAX" threads. I am genuinely shocked, as the topic has been beaten to death.


Why can't you give the guy a straight answer rather than being sarcastic?

There is a difference between being a member for a long time and being a 'frequent visitor' :)
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:15 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
Why didn't Boeing consider it? They probably did, but there are many good reasons they chose not to:

- The tooling for production had been discarded, would have been expensive to start it up.
- The 757 was too heavy to compete with the A321 on shorter routes, that would not change with equal engine technology.
- The market for routes that the 757 could fly but the A321 couldn't was minimal. Issues aside the 737 MAX filled the space OK.
- The 757 was too large to compete with the A320, though the A321neo is massively successful, narrowbodies still centre around MAX 8/A320neo size.

At the end of the day there was a reason 757 production ceased, not enough airlines wanted it. Any demand for those longer routes has been satisfied by existing 757s and 767s anyway, the A321XLR will take a chunk in the future. Though it's a lovely aircraft that's popular with pilots and its fans, that's not enough reason to keep it in production.

Though apparently that love is still enough to inspire the 757,200th thread about restarting production or keeping it as a neo competitor.


Beyond those technical points there's also the matter of flight crew commonality - there were way more 737s in service, and way more operators of 737s, than there were of 757s. MAX as an extension of the 737 family had far more value than it could have as an extension of the 757 family. (Now, how much 737 pilot commonality remains when MAX is recertified is a different question).
 
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Revelation
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:21 pm

DIJKKIJK wrote:
I don't know what I have missed. Should Boeing have gone this route? What stopped them?

Besides the issues with the actual airplane (757 is over built for the job) you missed the time line completely. 757 was shut down in 2004 or so, the decision to do the MAX was made in 2011. By that time the 757's factories were either converted to 737 use or discarded and the land was used for a shopping mall. Oh, yeah, no new engine was available in that thrust band. This is why we saw NMA needed a competition to get an engine in the appropriate thrust band.

BlueberryWheats wrote:
This was bound to happen. With lockdown and fleets of planes parked up we've run out of stuff to talk about.

Now, how about those NW DC-9's...

Maybe the pandemic will give AF a chance to wash their planes?

fessor wrote:
Boeing Should have gone for a Cleansheet design and then waited with the 777X the 737 design is milked to the end.
But sometimes companies need to make mistakes and learn from these.
The same way Airbus made a mistake with the 340NG .
So now they need to get the best of the MAX and then they will be able to in the future to come up with something new.

The decision to do the MAX was sound, it was Boeing Engineering that screwed the pooch on MCAS.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:42 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
MrHMSH wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
The 757MAX would have had a range well over 5000nm. It wouldn't have been able to compete with the A321NEO on short haul but the 757MAX would have been in a class of its own.

The problem was the 757 ended production in 2004. The Pratt GTF first flew in 2013. So the 757MAX would have engines half a generation behind the A321NEO. 10 years ago there was no market for a 5000nm range narrowbody. Today it would sell like hotcakes.

I actually think discounted 737NG's could have kept selling past 2025 until a full cleansheet came out.


I think it would have been a painful 15 years for Boeing if they had kept the 737NG going until 2025. Airlines told Boeing they weren't willing to wait, because at the time fuel prices were high. Airbus would have snagged a lot of customers before the new aircraft could enter service, really narrowing its user base, and Airbus would - again - have second mover advantage.


And yet, as it turned out with the MAX fiasco, airlines turned to Airbus again and more are thinking about it since the "when the MAX will fly again SAFELY?" question has no answer...


The execution was very wrong, but it's not a clear cut issue to say that they should have gone for the clean sheet, we can only really say that in hindsight.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:51 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
The A321 was not nearly as capable in the 1990's as it is today. Airlines were still ordering 757's in the early 2000's.


chiad wrote:
9-11 was the last nail in the B757 coffin. Only one order for 7 units after that (in 2003).


You are being disingenuous and very US-centric by claiming 9/11 killed the 757. The 757 didn't find its medium haul/TATL niche until the mid 2000s. It was first and foremost a short-haul aircraft up til that point, with the added attraction for US operators that it could reliably do trans continental flights. Outside of the US, the advent of the A321 pretty much sealed the fate of the 757-200 as a niche product or freighter. Most passenger 757 operators got rid of them as soon as possible. US demand alone was never enough to sustain the production of an entire type. Subtracting freighters, military orders and the -300, Boeing sold something along the lines of 180-190 757s after the introduction of the A321 in 1994. That's without even touching on the A320 which probably ate into a few 757 sales at operators that needed the range.


jfklganyc wrote:
The 321s in the 90s were dogs that couldnt get to an optimal cruise altitude on long flights


It was a short-haul jet. Many of them are still plying the skies to this day (well, the corona-grounding set aside), which says a thing or two. There are certainly more A321s than 757-200 passenger frames of same vintage still flying, despite the shortcomings.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:57 pm

fessor wrote:
Boeing Should have gone for a Cleansheet design and then waited with the 777X the 737 design is milked to the end.


Boeing wanted to do a clean-sheet design, but airlines were ordering A320neo by the hundreds and some of Boeing's most important customers were ready to defect to Airbus. When American Airlines was ready to scrap their entire 737NG fleet for A320neo, Boeing had to respond with something they could get out before 2020, not 2030, and that was the MAX.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:02 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
The 321s in the 90s were dogs that couldnt get to an optimal cruise altitude on long flights

The 757 was a beautiful airplane, it was just 1980s technology. Which, obviously is adaptable.


Really? Through upgrades the A321 became a very successful plane.
Sure the B757 was designed well in the 80s and also receive improvements over time increasing it's performance.
 
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JBo
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:08 pm

USAirKid wrote:
I miss the threads on NW's DC-9s.

I thought they were going to fly back on a DC-9 after retiring an A320 to the boneyard.


I mean, they still might - just in the form of a USA Jet charter :mrgreen:
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
StrandedAtMKG
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:26 pm

The 757 is larger, so many more people would have died in the crashes caused by Boeing's negligence before the product line was pulled out of service and the company humiliated on a worldwide stage. So no, a 757MAX wouldn't have been "better."
 
N292UX
Posts: 567
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:30 pm

There's going to be a new 757. It will be called the Boeing 797.
 
catiii
Posts: 3584
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:30 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
This was bound to happen. With lockdown and fleets of planes parked up we've run out of stuff to talk about.

Now, how about those NW DC-9's...


Do you think NW will retire the DC-9 soon, and maybe replace them with a 757NG or 757MAX?
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:46 pm

This is the topic that never ends, it goes on and on my friends, Some people post not knowing what it was, because most people on here live on what if it was, can it carry fish? Would it be an A321 death wish? This is the topic that never ends..
 
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Moose135
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:49 pm

mdavies06 wrote:
During these turbulent and uncertain times, we all look forward to a bit of friendly banter and nostalgia. So why not rehash all the old threads. Please lets restart them:

Is a snow globe a good gift for a girl you want to stalk date?
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
beechnut
Posts: 927
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:58 pm

I also think VW should bring back the original Beetle with fat tires and a 1.8T turbocharged engine, with all the bells and whistles, never mind that it still wouldn't meet modern safety and other standards... I'd trade my modern 2018 Golf 4MOTION 6-speed manual wagon in on one in a flash... NOT!

Beech
 
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Revelation
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Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:02 pm

VSMUT wrote:
You are being disingenuous and very US-centric by claiming 9/11 killed the 757. The 757 didn't find its medium haul/TATL niche until the mid 2000s.

My recollection of the time was that the 757 ended up on long routes pretty much because it was too inefficient to compete with A320CEO/B737NG on domestic/shorter routes and was more like the mid 2000s when this happened.. The death of the 757 lead to an additional 737 production line so in many ways 737 largely superseded the 757. The airplane that 9/11 seemed to kill was the remaining 727s. Three inefficient engines with three cockpit crew was never going to be competitive. A lot wen to the desert and never came back. Same for 747 classic.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 984
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:55 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
- The tooling for production had been discarded, would have been expensive to start it up.

Certainly an incredible amount cheaper than the 737 MAX failure has cost so far. I love the 757 and would love a 757 MAX too. But we all now that won't happen.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4470
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:58 pm

Revelation wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
You are being disingenuous and very US-centric by claiming 9/11 killed the 757. The 757 didn't find its medium haul/TATL niche until the mid 2000s.

My recollection of the time was that the 757 ended up on long routes pretty much because it was too inefficient to compete with A320CEO/B737NG on domestic/shorter routes and was more like the mid 2000s when this happened.. The death of the 757 lead to an additional 737 production line so in many ways 737 largely superseded the 757. The airplane that 9/11 seemed to kill was the remaining 727s. Three inefficient engines with three cockpit crew was never going to be competitive. A lot wen to the desert and never came back. Same for 747 classic.


Ironically, the 757 should have been the aircraft to replace all those 727s, but in the end it was the 737-800 that took over the 727s job at most operators.
 
Starfuryt
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:58 am

Re: Would a 757MAX been better than the 737MAX?

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:10 pm

So when is Boeing gonna restart the 757 line? :stirthepot: :duck: :white:

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