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doulasc
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

National airlines were just passing through one way.

Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:55 am

I have noticed in the late 1970s National Airlines had some odd routes where they served a city with a flight passing through one way
but no vice versa.example MIA-MLB-TPA but no return the other way,Why would they do that? Philadelphia was another example
a one way route through PHL but no return route. Charleston SC and Savanah had one way routes passing through.So you leave
out of CHS to say JFK but no way to get back on National.That makes no sense.Airlines have to have a vice versa,
 
doulasc
Topic Author
Posts: 857
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:32 am

Prior to National pulling out of Tallahassee Florida their only route was was JAX-TLH and back to JAX.No way that could have been
a profitable route for National.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1320
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:40 am

Do you have the full schedule?

For example, did inbound flights to MIA connect to the MIA-MLB segment? Particularly a TPA nonstop? The schedulers were working with paper strips back then, but they weren't stupid. Chances are there were a fair amount of flights that fed the MIA-MLB-TPA flight that returning travelers could connect from.
 
880dc8707
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:43 am

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:55 am

I flew NA in the 70s taking groups to Orlando, Going was PHL - MCO 1stop via JAX,. Return was via DCA. I dont know if they were one direction, we used them for MCO, but lot of psgrs exited in JAX, and DCA.
 
MO11
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:02 am

doulasc wrote:
I have noticed in the late 1970s National Airlines had some odd routes where they served a city with a flight passing through one way
but no vice versa.example MIA-MLB-TPA but no return the other way,Why would they do that? Philadelphia was another example
a one way route through PHL but no return route. Charleston SC and Savanah had one way routes passing through.So you leave
out of CHS to say JFK but no way to get back on National.That makes no sense.Airlines have to have a vice versa,


This was at the very end of airline regulation, before the free-for-all started. NA wanted to drop service at MLB entirely, and applied to drop its SAV-CHS-DCA flights. It operated the bare minimum service level allowed. The CAB allowed it to drop MLB in July 1979, and allowed it to end service in the CHS/SAV-DCA markets in March 1979.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:35 am

doulasc wrote:
Prior to National pulling out of Tallahassee Florida their only route was was JAX-TLH and back to JAX.No way that could have been
a profitable route for National.


It was a tag; they weren’t trying to make money on the JAXTLH segment but taking JAX and TLH customers onward.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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strfyr51
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Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:02 am

EA CO AS wrote:
doulasc wrote:
Prior to National pulling out of Tallahassee Florida their only route was was JAX-TLH and back to JAX.No way that could have been
a profitable route for National.


It was a tag; they weren’t trying to make money on the JAXTLH segment but taking JAX and TLH customers onward.

the CAB sis some pretty strange stuff back then. BUT? De-regulation? Did some even stranger stuff!. had Pan-Am been allowed to have a robust domestic network?
They might well still be around. The CAB was regulating to suit themselves and their political cronies.
 
MO11
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Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:24 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
doulasc wrote:
Prior to National pulling out of Tallahassee Florida their only route was was JAX-TLH and back to JAX.No way that could have been
a profitable route for National.


It was a tag; they weren’t trying to make money on the JAXTLH segment but taking JAX and TLH customers onward.



Tallahassee was on the Jacksonville-New Orleans route (with stops in Tallahassee, Panama City, Pensacola, Mobile); from Jacksonville, some flights continued northward. National was trying to lose these cities, and its authority to serve Tallahassee became "permissive" in 1978.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:49 pm

The problem with deregulation was how quick it came about. Boom! All of a sudden, everyone is free to fly wherever they want, charge how much they want, and drop unprofitable routes. The "milk runs" disappeared as airlines found they could fly non-stops cheaper, and smaller cities were left behind.

I could never figure out National's plan, even in the regulated era. Yeah, Florida, yeah, the southeast, but other airlines did too. And then Pan Am's take-over killed of their route network completely - many of these cities found themselves connected with Memphis (Southern) and Atlanta (Delta / Eastern), and further years solidified these hubs.
 
departedflights
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 am

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:12 pm

Here is a COMPLETELY BIZARRE one, in my opinion... Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

In National's September 1978 flight schedule there is one flight a day through Providence:

National flight 421

Lv Boston 8:10am
Ar Providence 8:38am
Lv Providence 9:05am
Ar New York Kennedy 9:37am

The flight then continued to head southbound to Washington National, Charleston, Savannah, Jacksonville, Orlando and Miami.

The schedule shows you could use flight 421 to connect to other National flights heading TO Fort Myers, Melbourne, Fort Lauderdale, Norfolk, Sarasota, Tampa and West Palm Beach.... but there were absolutely ZERO cities that showed any connections available TO Providence.

There is no other flight ALL DAY to or from Providence.

You could leave Providence on National and get to 15 cities, but you could only return to Providence if you were coming from Boston first thing in the morning.

I've never understood that!
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
mga707
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:28 pm

AA had a similar flight for many years, 1960s/early '70s: Oakland CA had but one flight, SFO-OAK-PHX (continuing to DAL and points east). No westbound PHX-OAK. Finally around '72 or so they dropped the cross-bay 'hop' and started a PHX-OAK flight that 'turned' to OAK-PHX.
 
pietpaflsun
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:14 am

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:39 pm

These were the days of the so called milk runs.
TWA 756 PHL-LHR
 
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cathay747
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Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:42 pm

Let's face it, there was LOTS of bizarre stuff pre-deregulation...UA flying 747's ORD/YYZ/ORD is merely one example I can think of. Specifically referring to National, don't forget that they operated ATL-SFO nonstop, which was awarded, IIRC, as part of the Southern Trans-Con. Route Case...it was the ONLY service they had at ATL! I forget the CAB's so-called reasoning behind awarding that, but NA had never applied for it (if memory serves)...this ATL-SFO was a consolation prize for something.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
superjeff
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:47 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Let's face it, there was LOTS of bizarre stuff pre-deregulation...UA flying 747's ORD/YYZ/ORD is merely one example I can think of. Specifically referring to National, don't forget that they operated ATL-SFO nonstop, which was awarded, IIRC, as part of the Southern Trans-Con. Route Case...it was the ONLY service they had at ATL! I forget the CAB's so-called reasoning behind awarding that, but NA had never applied for it (if memory serves)...this ATL-SFO was a consolation prize for something.


Before deregulation, National had a whole bunch of weird flights with as many as eight stops. Routes like BOS-Florida (with five or six stops), continuing on to New Orleans and the West Coast with routings like MIA-TPA-PNS-MSY-IAH-LAS-SFO/LAX/SAN were quite common.
 
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cathay747
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:55 pm

superjeff wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Let's face it, there was LOTS of bizarre stuff pre-deregulation...UA flying 747's ORD/YYZ/ORD is merely one example I can think of. Specifically referring to National, don't forget that they operated ATL-SFO nonstop, which was awarded, IIRC, as part of the Southern Trans-Con. Route Case...it was the ONLY service they had at ATL! I forget the CAB's so-called reasoning behind awarding that, but NA had never applied for it (if memory serves)...this ATL-SFO was a consolation prize for something.


Before deregulation, National had a whole bunch of weird flights with as many as eight stops. Routes like BOS-Florida (with five or six stops), continuing on to New Orleans and the West Coast with routings like MIA-TPA-PNS-MSY-IAH-LAS-SFO/LAX/SAN were quite common.


:checkmark: So did Eastern (up/down east coast)...hell, ALL of the majors had at least a couple of those crazy 5+ stop routes, although some had more than others...and not just domestic. My God, some of BN's SoAmer. routes were equally insane...JFK-EZE with 5 stops. Just crazy.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:02 pm

NA had a ton of MIA-FLL-LGA or FLL-PBI-DCA, MCO-TPA-IAH type flights. Also as noted above the one way MIA-SAV-CHS-JFK hop.
EA had several flights routed like FLL-MIA-BOS or MIA-FLL-EWR or MLB-DAB-JAX-JFK service. Those are just random examples. Two flights that persisted until the EA strike in 1989 was MIA-TPA-TLH and MIA-TPA-PNS. Those were important intrastate connections.

National also had PNS-MOB-MSY-IAH for a while IIRC, a true Gulf Coast milk run!
 
superjeff
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: National airlines were just passing through one way.

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:05 pm

Not to the same extent as National, though. I worked for Braniff in the mid 1970's and we had flights operating DFW-IAH-MSY-PTY-BOG-UIO, and JFK-IAD-MIA-PTY-UIO-LIM-LPZ-BUE and similar, but largely dictated by the route authorities we had, and Eastern's flights were typically one stop flights operating via ATL to points in Florida, rather than National's Tri-Coast (Atlantic-Gulf-Pacific) services.

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