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enilria
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Norwegian News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:06 pm

The reaper is closing in sadly.

>>>The four companies are staffing units, employing 4,700 pilots and cabin crew members, while about 700 pilots and 1,300 cabin crew based in Norway, France and Italy were unaffected by the decision, Norwegian said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2221I1
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
Dominion301
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:43 pm

The unexpected step in liquidation is taking place. Now the question is, will the 'real' Norwegian survive. If they do, they're probably a 20 frame 737 operator like they were 15 years ago.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:48 pm

Sad news for all the Norwegian crews. I'm not sure if the Norwegian state government feels much responsibility to help...or if they even should.
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:50 pm

The second hand market will be flooded with 787s.
Good moaning!
 
Opus99
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:51 pm

Airlines are literally being exterminated everywhere
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:01 pm

I wonder how successful any attempt at a debt-to-equity swap would be. I was under the impression that at least compared to the US, creditors in Europe tend to get a good deal more legal protection under bankruptcy. Would any of them have any incentive to take up that offer?
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:01 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
The unexpected step in liquidation is taking place. Now the question is, will the 'real' Norwegian survive. If they do, they're probably a 20 frame 737 operator like they were 15 years ago.


Little depending on what you mean by the "real" Norwegian, but looking at their Norwegian operations, staff by local crew here in Norway, that is (or was) about 50-60 aircraft. Of which most belongs to the OSL base
 
tphuang
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:03 pm

How many subsidiaries do they have? It sounds like Norwegian Air UK is still operational. Looks like they are still trying to hold on to their LH operation.
 
chiad
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:04 pm

enilria wrote:
The reaper is closing in sadly.

>>>The four companies are staffing units, employing 4,700 pilots and cabin crew members, while about 700 pilots and 1,300 cabin crew based in Norway, France and Italy were unaffected by the decision, Norwegian said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2221I1


Sad indeed.
Norwegian Air has made air travel more affordable for many norwegians.
:frown:
 
bennett123
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:06 pm

So how they employ Swedish and Danish staff going forward?.
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:11 pm

bennett123 wrote:
So how they employ Swedish and Danish staff going forward?.


As they don't fly in Sweden or Denmark at the moment, they really don't need any staff. That said, Norwegian Air Sweden and their Swedish AOC still exist

One reason for this is different furlough rules in the Scandinavian countries. In Norway, the company can furlough employees and their salary cost is eliminated after a very short time. This is not possible in Denmark or Sweden, so in order to reduce their personel cost to zero here, they decleared their staffing companies bankrupt. It is not like those crew will go somewhere else at the moment....
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:11 pm

I wonder if airlines could get through this period by selling vouchers for open-dated tickets with a 1 year validity or something like that. A lot of people do want to travel as soon as the situation allows and this would help airlines with cash flow.
 
Blerg
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:12 pm

Does this mean they are going to be withdrawing from these two markets? Withdrawing their hubs that is, I am sure they are still going to have some flights to and from there. Swedish market has been declining long before Corona so this is probably the perfect time for them to get out.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:14 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
The second hand market will be flooded with 787s.

Boeing: *finding the 'Angry :mad: ' and 'Dislike :thumbsdown: ' buttons* :duck:
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majano
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:16 pm

Read through the article and it sounds like the CEO is pointing fingers at Sweden and Denmark, complaining of the lack of support in those countries, whilst praising Norway for an efficient scheme. Not sure what to make of that.
 
Blerg
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:18 pm

majano wrote:
Read through the article and it sounds like the CEO is pointing fingers at Sweden and Denmark, complaining of the lack of support in those countries, whilst praising Norway for an efficient scheme. Not sure what to make of that.


In the Nordic Aviation Thread we could read that Norway has helped DY get access to the needed funding. On the other hand, Denmark has said that it will do whatever it takes to save SK. I guess DY is angry they are making SAS their priority. Maybe that is why they will cut those markets, after all, yields will be trash for a long time after corona and Sweden and Denmark are not exactly cheap.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:19 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
The unexpected step in liquidation is taking place. Now the question is, will the 'real' Norwegian survive. If they do, they're probably a 20 frame 737 operator like they were 15 years ago.


Little depending on what you mean by the "real" Norwegian, but looking at their Norwegian operations, staff by local crew here in Norway, that is (or was) about 50-60 aircraft. Of which most belongs to the OSL base


I thought they moved many of the Norwegian based aircraft to the Swedish register. So now the majority of the planes are on the Irish or Swedish certificates with around 20 still on the Norwegian one and a little over 10 on the UK one.

peterinlisbon wrote:
I wonder if airlines could get through this period by selling vouchers for open-dated tickets with a 1 year validity or something like that. A lot of people do want to travel as soon as the situation allows and this would help airlines with cash flow.


This wouldn't really help an airline like Norwegian that 1) very much may not survive the crisis at all, or 2) if it does survive will be MUCH smaller. If you buy your ticket for JFK-ATH and Norwegian long haul is no longer operating then what? Even within Europe if they survive many routes/bases will be cut and they may just go back to serving Norway and the Nordics primarily.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:25 pm

Blerg wrote:
majano wrote:
Read through the article and it sounds like the CEO is pointing fingers at Sweden and Denmark, complaining of the lack of support in those countries, whilst praising Norway for an efficient scheme. Not sure what to make of that.


In the Nordic Aviation Thread we could read that Norway has helped DY get access to the needed funding. On the other hand, Denmark has said that it will do whatever it takes to save SK. I guess DY is angry they are making SAS their priority. Maybe that is why they will cut those markets, after all, yields will be trash for a long time after corona and Sweden and Denmark are not exactly cheap.


I'm not sure why DY would be angry at a perfectly logical decision. SAS is WAY more important to Denmark than Norwegian is or ever way (even when Norwegian was still flying long haul from there). Even in Sweden it would make more sense to favor SK over DY. IMO Norway is really the only place it would make to provide aid to DY over SK.
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:28 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
This wouldn't really help an airline like Norwegian that 1) very much may not survive the crisis at all, or 2) if it does survive will be MUCH smaller. If you buy your ticket for JFK-ATH and Norwegian long haul is no longer operating then what? Even within Europe if they survive many routes/bases will be cut and they may just go back to serving Norway and the Nordics primarily.


Apart from the obvious (domestic market in Norwegian), I wrote a month ago the only reasonable operation to me within the whole short haul network in Europe is Spain. Although they could gradually be back there with crews from Norway, I'd say ALC, AGP, (maybe the Canaries) were/are successful year round. On top of that, the staff costs of pilots and cabin crews in Spain must be way lower than equal colleagues in Norway.
 
SRT75
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:30 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
The second hand market will be flooded with 787s.


Not sure. Public may want bigger planes with lower density for higher price. Remember the late 90s when "34 inches in coach" was the fad? Might be easier to sell a lower-density 787 with fewer frequencies than a jam-packed 321 or 737MAX flying trans-Atlantic with 31" pitch and people sitting on top of each other when everyone wants to keep their distance.

Unfortunately, not Norwegian's business model, but maybe the legacy carriers will pick that strategy up.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:30 pm

Any 787 are owned by those subsidiaries?
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Someone83
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:32 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
I thought they moved many of the Norwegian based aircraft to the Swedish register. So now the majority of the planes are on the Irish or Swedish certificates with around 20 still on the Norwegian one and a little over 10 on the UK one.


Still mainly crewed by Norwegian staff, something they couldn't do with the aircraft on Irish register. That Norwegian was in the process of leaving, and having their 737s on either Norwegian or Swedish AOCs, which offers much more flexibility
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:33 pm

Antaras wrote:
Any 787 are owned by those subsidiaries?


No, the only thing these subsidiary did was employ pilots and cabin crews, in Denmark and Sweden. No aircraft, AOC or other things was part of this
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:37 pm

The entire industry is severely affected by the crisis. Norwegian is no exception. It is a leisure airline primarily and I just don't see them survive this.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:43 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
I wonder if airlines could get through this period by selling vouchers for open-dated tickets with a 1 year validity or something like that. A lot of people do want to travel as soon as the situation allows and this would help airlines with cash flow.


Can a Norwegian firm recognize the revenue before the service is provided?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:55 pm

A policy of recognising revenue prior to providing the service would have to be declared in the accounts. The credibility of the accounts would then go to zero while cashflow would remain unchanged - a profit being declared in the published accounts while not having enough money in the bank to pay creditors doesn't really help...
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:55 pm

SRT75 wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
The second hand market will be flooded with 787s.


Not sure. Public may want bigger planes with lower density for higher price. Remember the late 90s when "34 inches in coach" was the fad? Might be easier to sell a lower-density 787 with fewer frequencies than a jam-packed 321 or 737MAX flying trans-Atlantic with 31" pitch and people sitting on top of each other when everyone wants to keep their distance.

Unfortunately, not Norwegian's business model, but maybe the legacy carriers will pick that strategy up.

The vast majority of the public has shown in the past 15-20 years they only want one thing: cheap tickets.
Furthermore, with the economic crisis worldwide, even less people than before will be able and willing to afford higher priced tickets.
 
flyby519
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:00 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
The second hand market will be flooded with 787s.


Do these staffing subsidiaries hold any actual assets like planes/slots/etc? It sounds like purely a staffing agency with pilots/FAs. What an insane structure, declare bankruptcy for your employees but the main corporate entity can continue (and re-hire with 1st year wages/salaries later)
 
PavlovsDog
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:07 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
Blerg wrote:
majano wrote:
Read through the article and it sounds like the CEO is pointing fingers at Sweden and Denmark, complaining of the lack of support in those countries, whilst praising Norway for an efficient scheme. Not sure what to make of that.


In the Nordic Aviation Thread we could read that Norway has helped DY get access to the needed funding. On the other hand, Denmark has said that it will do whatever it takes to save SK. I guess DY is angry they are making SAS their priority. Maybe that is why they will cut those markets, after all, yields will be trash for a long time after corona and Sweden and Denmark are not exactly cheap.


I'm not sure why DY would be angry at a perfectly logical decision. SAS is WAY more important to Denmark than Norwegian is or ever way (even when Norwegian was still flying long haul from there). Even in Sweden it would make more sense to favor SK over DY. IMO Norway is really the only place it would make to provide aid to DY over SK.
Logical and legal are very different things. The Norwegian government is offering a life-line, on reasonably equal terms, to all carriers with a Norwegian operating certificate. This also covers SAS.

One thing that I am very curious about is to what degree ownership of the aircraft is distributed between different companies. How painless (for Norwegian management and the remaining employees) would it be to keep the profitable pieces and leave the US EXIM bank owning a bunch of aircraft that some Norwegian entities aren't able to pay for anymore?
 
alm1
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:08 pm

I am not sure about applicable law in those countries but shouldn't that be investigated legally? If company exists only to provide services to one client, is owned and managed by that client - that certainly looks like just a fraud scheme to skimp on debts? And parent company should be made liable?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:20 pm

Opus99 wrote:
Airlines are literally being exterminated everywhere

Literally? As per this thread not even Norwegian is "exterminated"...

Oy, word use is really poor these days...

Someone83 wrote:
One reason for this is different furlough rules in the Scandinavian countries. In Norway, the company can furlough employees and their salary cost is eliminated after a very short time. This is not possible in Denmark or Sweden, so in order to reduce their personel cost to zero here, they decleared their staffing companies bankrupt. It is not like those crew will go somewhere else at the moment....

Ironically, they are showing the benefit of the "flag of convenience" approach so many people here complained so much about.

You really can't expect a company from a country with high levels of protections to be able to apply those to operations in countries with low levels of protections and be competitive, and vice versa. Since no one wants world government and since many (most?) want international brands to operate, we're going to keep having this kind of set up. Events are proving it to be the best way to go.
Last edited by Revelation on Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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IWMBH
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:21 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Antaras wrote:
Any 787 are owned by those subsidiaries?


No, the only thing these subsidiary did was employ pilots and cabin crews, in Denmark and Sweden. No aircraft, AOC or other things was part of this


So, who's going to fly all those 737MAX's Norwegian has on order?
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:31 pm

Revelation wrote:
Ironically, they are showing the benefit of the "flag of convenience" approach so many people here complained so much about..


When they locally employ Swedes and Danes to operate routes within and to/from these countries, it is rather opposite than a flag of convenience
 
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Antaras
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:44 pm

IWMBH wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Antaras wrote:
Any 787 are owned by those subsidiaries?


No, the only thing these subsidiary did was employ pilots and cabin crews, in Denmark and Sweden. No aircraft, AOC or other things was part of this


So, who's going to fly all those 737MAX's Norwegian has on order?

Anyway we don't know if the Norwegian sys could survive in the next 3 months...
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jfk777
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:46 pm

Sad To see this happen, loved all those red nosed 787 flying from Gatwick to the USA, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Looks like BA will get a chance to acquire more LGW slots and gain more market share. Don't see anyone buying all the Norwegian slots and challenging BA, sadly. Where will the 787 end up, with Rolls engines, who knows ?
 
Opus99
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:46 pm

Revelation wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Airlines are literally being exterminated everywhere

Literally? As per this thread not even Norwegian is "exterminated"...

Oy, word use is really poor these days...



LOL. Okay maybe too extreme there, let me say it’s pushing airlines a bit over the edge. It’s causing real damage which I’m sure you’ll agree
 
ltbewr
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:54 pm

Norwegian's operations were already in deep financial problems, their 737MAX's were grounded, their model based on mainly leisure travel all means that perhaps a fraction of their operations will continue after the Covid-19 pandemic.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:58 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Ironically, they are showing the benefit of the "flag of convenience" approach so many people here complained so much about..


When they locally employ Swedes and Danes to operate routes within and to/from these countries, it is rather opposite than a flag of convenience

Right, but if this were the old days those Swedes and Danes would have the same protections as the Norwegians but they don't. I suppose I need a better term than "flag of convenience" to describe the situation? Maybe it falls under plain old globalization?

Opus99 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Airlines are literally being exterminated everywhere

Literally? As per this thread not even Norwegian is "exterminated"...

Oy, word use is really poor these days...


LOL. Okay maybe too extreme there, let me say it’s pushing airlines a bit over the edge. It’s causing real damage which I’m sure you’ll agree

Yes, I agree. It's a tough time. I think exaggeration can make things worse. I know people are doing it a lot these days, but it does weaken the meaning of words and thus our ability to communicate.
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a350lover
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:05 pm

The fact that Norwegian still sells tickets for many routes which are unlikely to be flown after today's announcement makes any sense?
 
32andBelow
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:07 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
I wonder if airlines could get through this period by selling vouchers for open-dated tickets with a 1 year validity or something like that. A lot of people do want to travel as soon as the situation allows and this would help airlines with cash flow.

They already sell gift cards. They could like say buy 500 get 1000 of something.
 
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smithbs
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:10 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
I wonder if airlines could get through this period by selling vouchers for open-dated tickets with a 1 year validity or something like that. A lot of people do want to travel as soon as the situation allows and this would help airlines with cash flow.


Can a Norwegian firm recognize the revenue before the service is provided?


The basic approach would be that selling such a voucher would yield immediate cash flow (nice), but would have a future liability recorded as well (since you now owe someone a service). That future liability would be a bit hazy, since you don't know when the voucher will be redeemed and what costs will be at that point.
 
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dutchflyboi
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:13 pm

The bankruptcy also includes the OSM contracts
Quote: 'Due to the extraordinary situation (force majeure), Norwegian has also notified OSM Aviation that it has cancelled the crew provision agreements with several of its jointly owned OSM Aviation subsidiaries. These companies have crew based in Spain, UK, Finland, Sweden and the US.'
So looks like no one is left to operate the flights out of the US and or LGW.
https://www.airlive.net/breaking-norweg ... ankruptcy/
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:18 pm

32andBelow wrote:
They already sell gift cards. They could like say buy 500 get 1000 of something.


People are right now worrying for their health and employment situation. I don't think airlines would find many willing to secure their next holiday via gift cards. What's the benefit against just go online and purchase your next holiday once everything is back in place safe and sound? I'd bet the airfares will be actually cheaper by then...
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:23 pm

To get an idea on how many aircraft might be involved in these bankruptcies, here's Norwegian's overall fleet status:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Norwegian

The Swedish subsidiary has Norwegian's largest fleet, including most of the 737MAX's and open MAX orders:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/N ... Air-Sweden
 
irishpower
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:36 pm

As much as I hate to see people lose their jobs, there are many airlines out there that probably should fold. If it wasn't for national pride and governments propping up poor performers,
we'd probably have a healthier industry. Now COVID has clearly effected all airlines ,so all airlines (including those that should be helped) will need assistance. Let's just hope we can vet out the good from the bad.
 
T4thH
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:37 pm

Bye Bye Norwegian.

Sorry for the employees. But also to say, it was long time, that the next airline in Europe got erased; even prior pandemic, there was a big surplus of airlines, jets and LCC capacity in Europe.

After pandemic times, the numbers will be even several times more exaggerated. And Norwegian has made several big mistakes (next to start long haul low cost flights, this is the third of the three biggest mistakes). They have ordered the B737 MAX AND ordered the B787 with RR engines. With one, perhaps 2 of three decisions, they would have perhaps survived. But with three of three.....And they have had done many additional bad small ones....
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:55 pm

And yet Alitalia continues to fly, we live in very strange times. :confused:
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Someone83
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:02 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
To get an idea on how many aircraft might be involved in these bankruptcies, here's Norwegian's overall fleet status:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Norwegian

The Swedish subsidiary has Norwegian's largest fleet, including most of the 737MAX's and open MAX orders:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/N ... Air-Sweden


As I tried to explain earlier in this thread, Norwegian Air Sweden is not (at least not yet) bankrupt. Their aircraft are used several places, including Norway. It is basically their EU AOC, that is taking over for the Irish one, as it creates better flexibility with regards to which crew that flies the aircraft, vs having one Norwegian and one Irish. Think about SAS and their mix of Swedish, Danish and Norwegian registered aircraft ;)

The companies that has gone bankrupt is basically their crew bases at CPH and ARN, which is an effect of the employment laws in these countries, that are rather employee friendly, instead of employer friendly. I.e even when furlough employees, the company still has a substantial salary cost to pay. In Norway, it is the opposite, when furlough employees, 100% of the salary cost is eliminated. That's why Norwegian based employees are furloughed, instead of fired (or their crew company declared bankrupt)

They also send a signal to the Danish and Swedish government that wouldn't give them any credit, now instead they got more people unemployed, for the time being
 
Blerg
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:07 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
And yet Alitalia continues to fly, we live in very strange times. :confused:


Times would be strange if Alitalia stopped flying.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:14 pm

SRT75 wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
The second hand market will be flooded with 787s.


Not sure. Public may want bigger planes with lower density for higher price. Remember the late 90s when "34 inches in coach" was the fad? Might be easier to sell a lower-density 787 with fewer frequencies than a jam-packed 321 or 737MAX flying trans-Atlantic with 31" pitch and people sitting on top of each other when everyone wants to keep their distance.

Unfortunately, not Norwegian's business model, but maybe the legacy carriers will pick that strategy up.


You still would need wide-bodies for belly cargo across the Atlantic. That said, if a boatload of B789s with RR-powered frames come up suddenly on the market, I could see BA wanting to pick most of them up, to speed up the retirement of the GE-powered B772 fleet. I could see BA keeping the Norwegian configuration for Gatwick-based frames (which is typically for holidaymakers and could allow SEZ to be moved to LGW) and using the B788s for a limited MAN operation, while any B789s assigned to Heathrow get the standard 4-class configuration. Then all of the RR-powered B772s are given the new 235-seat configuration for LHR. (In case anyone is wondering about the Dreamliner fleet, Norwegian has 8 B788s and 29 B789s in the fleet with 3 more B789s on order.) Of that fleet, 28 are/will be leased and 12 are/will be owned.

B788s: 2 leased from Dr. Peters Group, 3 leased from AerCap, 3 owned
B789s (including future deliveries): 4 leased from Jordache Enterprises (MG Aviation), 8 leased from AerCap, 3 leased from HNA Group (Avolon Aerospace), 8 leased/to be leased from Bank of China Aviation, 9 are/to be owned

Another likely interested airline could be NH, desiring to rush out domestic 777s and replace them with 395-seat B789s.

If an airline is willing to change the engines to GE, then it's a free-for-all.

As for the 737 fleet, this could be a boon to KLM and LOT Polish Airlines, as Norwegian engaged in a sale-leaseback for their 737s, and none of those frames are even 12 years old yet. KLM could buy or lease in enough B738s to simplify their fleets very quickly and retire their oldest frames (especially KLM and Transavia). KLM would very quickly go to just 5 fleet types: B738 (newer frames at KLM and Transavia), B77E/W, and B789/X, and 2 pilot groups...737, and 777/787. I also see Blue Air and SunExpress benefiting a lot with the ability to get much newer frames than the ones they currently have. A wild card could be SpiceJet in India or El Al in Israel.
Last edited by aemoreira1981 on Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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