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MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:55 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I think people are ignoring one major factor - moral hazard.
How will other airlines perceive the leasing companies if they agree to a debt-for-equity swap with Norwegian.


Debt-for-equity swaps are very common in restructurings. Firms don't dilute equity willy-nilly. The secondary practical effect is the same as issuing new shares - which this forum has seen calls for by Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia (Why doesn't the billionaire founder have to put up more money?), and which United has announced.

Virgin America was a practitioner of the debt-for-equity swap -- outside of administration.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Thu May 21, 2020 11:51 pm

Norwegian now majority owned by leasing companies:

https://money.usnews.com/investing/news ... tructuring

"Bondholders, lessors and shareholders recently agreed to a 12.7 billion crowns debt conversion and share sale that boosted Norwegian's equity, meeting a key aid condition."

"The recovery plan will see Norwegian operate seven aircraft for up to 12 months before building up to 110-120 planes in 2022, compared with almost 150 before the crisis."

Amazing, just under 150 to 7, with a slow increase to about 75% of the fleet in 18 months or so.

I personally didn't think Norwegian would survive. I guess for the stockholders it didn't... But it will fly again.

My two cents, this leaves an opportunity for AirBaltic, Wizz, Easyjet, Ryanair, and Volotea.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Fri May 22, 2020 3:08 am

lightsaber wrote:
Norwegian now majority owned by leasing companies:

https://money.usnews.com/investing/news ... tructuring

"Bondholders, lessors and shareholders recently agreed to a 12.7 billion crowns debt conversion and share sale that boosted Norwegian's equity, meeting a key aid condition."

"The recovery plan will see Norwegian operate seven aircraft for up to 12 months before building up to 110-120 planes in 2022, compared with almost 150 before the crisis."

Amazing, just under 150 to 7, with a slow increase to about 75% of the fleet in 18 months or so.

I personally didn't think Norwegian would survive. I guess for the stockholders it didn't... But it will fly again.

My two cents, this leaves an opportunity for AirBaltic, Wizz, Easyjet, Ryanair, and Volotea.

Lightsaber


Me neither but they've proven the naysayers wrong again. 9 lives? I think the new Norwegian will look a lot more like the Norwegian of 10 years ago.
 
Aviation737
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Fri May 22, 2020 3:41 am

lightsaber wrote:
Norwegian now majority owned by leasing companies:

https://money.usnews.com/investing/news ... tructuring

"Bondholders, lessors and shareholders recently agreed to a 12.7 billion crowns debt conversion and share sale that boosted Norwegian's equity, meeting a key aid condition."

"The recovery plan will see Norwegian operate seven aircraft for up to 12 months before building up to 110-120 planes in 2022, compared with almost 150 before the crisis."

Amazing, just under 150 to 7, with a slow increase to about 75% of the fleet in 18 months or so.

I personally didn't think Norwegian would survive. I guess for the stockholders it didn't... But it will fly again.

My two cents, this leaves an opportunity for AirBaltic, Wizz, Easyjet, Ryanair, and Volotea.

Lightsaber

ELI5 what does this mean? Is this good news?
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Fri May 22, 2020 4:52 am

With just seven active planes, where will they base them? All in Oslo or will they serve some other airports as well?
 
jonas12345
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Fri May 22, 2020 8:47 am

Without slot alleviation, it'll be very hard for Norwegian to hang onto it's good slots across Europe. They may have too many aircraft by 2022
 
alm1
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 10:08 am

Norwegian still 30% cheaper than AF-KLM :) They have tremendous growth opportunities as it is easy to grow from current 7 aircraft. Just imagine how much Norwegian will be worth when they start flying double digits of aircraft and enter international markets outside Norway as they hope to do sometime next year. Their market cap will overtake Ryanair and Lufhansa combined :)
 
a350lover
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 1:07 pm

alm1 wrote:
Norwegian still 30% cheaper than AF-KLM :) They have tremendous growth opportunities as it is easy to grow from current 7 aircraft. Just imagine how much Norwegian will be worth when they start flying double digits of aircraft and enter international markets outside Norway as they hope to do sometime next year. Their market cap will overtake Ryanair and Lufhansa combined :)


What makes you think Ryanair or Lufhtansa won't grow their current networks after covid?
 
skipness1E
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 1:15 pm

alm1 wrote:
Norwegian still 30% cheaper than AF-KLM :) They have tremendous growth opportunities as it is easy to grow from current 7 aircraft. Just imagine how much Norwegian will be worth when they start flying double digits of aircraft and enter international markets outside Norway as they hope to do sometime next year. Their market cap will overtake Ryanair and Lufhansa combined :)

Are you interested in this bridge I have to sell?
Also, what colour is the sky on your planet?
 
alm1
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 3:21 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Are you interested in this bridge I have to sell?


I was sarcastic. But all those wannabe retail investors in Norway are buying this bridge in droves.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue May 26, 2020 3:45 pm

alm1 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Are you interested in this bridge I have to sell?


I was sarcastic. But all those wannabe retail investors in Norway are buying this bridge in droves.



Norwegians still remember when SAS had monopoly in Norway …

That said, SAS seems to continue to struggle too and need more than likely to ask for more money
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 5:35 am

So have they announced where they plan on basing those 7 aircraft? They are still selling their flights without a problem.
 
alm1
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 6:41 am

They fly those 7 aircraft on domestic routes in Norway. All those hundreds of international, transatlantic, domestic in Spain etc routes they sell - at the moment from September - they don't intend fly them this year, thats acording to their rescue plan. All the staff in Spain, UK etc fired.
They should get criminal charges for selling all those tickets for weeks after announcing they won't fly.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 6:49 am

Wow!! Their concept was pretty crazy, but something that I think had a good chance. Is this partly due to them over expanding, or biting off more than it could chew?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 8:00 am

alm1 wrote:
They fly those 7 aircraft on domestic routes in Norway. All those hundreds of international, transatlantic, domestic in Spain etc routes they sell - at the moment from September - they don't intend fly them this year, thats acording to their rescue plan. All the staff in Spain, UK etc fired.
They should get criminal charges for selling all those tickets for weeks after announcing they won't fly.



Lets face it, I don't think that anyone really know where the world will be in September...
 
a350lover
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 8:20 am

Mortyman wrote:
Lets face it, I don't think that anyone really know where the world will be in September...


Correct. I agree that applies for the majority of airlines around the world now.

However, Norwegian situation was critical way before covid. They presented a plan for what they called "New Norwegian" in which they start off with the scenario of 7 planes flying intra Norway, there's no point in selling tickets for the global market when they've fired and closed down bases across the UK, Spain and USA. Norwegian needs to decide how they are going to get back to the market taking into consideration the covid crisis and the affected demand (as any other airline these days), but they also have to do so considering their debt situation and poor finances.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 8:23 am

a350lover wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Lets face it, I don't think that anyone really know where the world will be in September...


Correct. I agree that applies for the majority of airlines around the world now.

However, Norwegian situation was critical way before covid. They presented a plan for what they called "New Norwegian" in which they start off with the scenario of 7 planes flying intra Norway, there's no point in selling tickets for the global market. Norwegian needs to decide how they are going to get back to the market taking into consideration the covid crisis and the affected demand, but also their debt situation and poor finances.



They will start with 7 planes and domestic, but ofcourse, if the world opens up, Norwegian is not gonna sit still.
 
LJ
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 8:29 am

Mortyman wrote:
Lets face it, I don't think that anyone really know where the world will be in September...


There is a difference between selling tickets on flights of where your intend is to fly them, and selling tickets on flights of where you have no intend of flying it. The latter is an illegal act under many jurisdictions. Thus Norwegian is not allowed to sell tickets of which it doesn't intend on flying. or would you argue that Norwegian still doesn't know what it intends to do under its restructuring plan? To be honest, I think it's very difficult to make such an argument based on the plans they've presented.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 10:29 am

LJ wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Lets face it, I don't think that anyone really know where the world will be in September...


There is a difference between selling tickets on flights of where your intend is to fly them, and selling tickets on flights of where you have no intend of flying it. The latter is an illegal act under many jurisdictions. Thus Norwegian is not allowed to sell tickets of which it doesn't intend on flying. or would you argue that Norwegian still doesn't know what it intends to do under its restructuring plan? To be honest, I think it's very difficult to make such an argument based on the plans they've presented.



It is still too early to say how Things will be in September.
 
LJ
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 10:40 am

Mortyman wrote:
LJ wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Lets face it, I don't think that anyone really know where the world will be in September...


There is a difference between selling tickets on flights of where your intend is to fly them, and selling tickets on flights of where you have no intend of flying it. The latter is an illegal act under many jurisdictions. Thus Norwegian is not allowed to sell tickets of which it doesn't intend on flying. or would you argue that Norwegian still doesn't know what it intends to do under its restructuring plan? To be honest, I think it's very difficult to make such an argument based on the plans they've presented.



It is still too early to say how Things will be in September.


Not if you externally communicate you're going to reduce capacity by more than half of your flights outside Norway. Their only way out is to argue that it's "just a plan", but the longer you keep on selling those flights, the less valid that argument is becoming.
 
airsmiles
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 11:15 am

What I don’t understand about ‘new’ Norwegian is why any prospective passenger would take a financial risk and book a ticket with them, especially one to travel well ahead of booking. Everyone knows they’ve been financially crippled and, with being largely out of the international market for so long, low confidence in them must surely affect their future plans to a large degree. Post COVID competition is going to be fierce so will they be forced into low-yield fares again to fill their aircraft?
 
ProphetDE
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 11:16 am

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's two different issues.

From what I remember, they stated in their presentation and in their documents, that they are prepared to return to service earlier, as far as demand permits - so the seven aircraft that were previously mentioned are just a base service really that can be scaled up once restrictions are lifted and demands return to sustainable levels - presumably earlier than March 2021 (seeing some core markets like Spain will lift restrictions by 1st July).

As for them still selling tickets based on their pre-crisis schedule: I agree it's shitty, but in all fairness, it's not a Norwegian-only issue. As far as I see many airlines are still selling tickets for routes they are likely not going to operate any longer, despite having announced that they'll scale down operations. Just like the refund-voucher issue, this is likely something that will be largely ignored at the expense of the consumer.
 
Dmoney
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 11:30 am

People here are amazingly ignorant about finance. There is no moral hazard here. The owners of the company, equity, have lost everything and been diluted down to 5% and then they've recapitalized the business and the debt holders have taken a huge write down and a majority share in a debt/equity swap.

This is how it's supposed to work. The owners loose everything before debt takes any hit, then debt takes a hit and then the government supports to help a viable company emerge.

Moral hazard is the US or what Virgin Atlantic wanted where equity gets a huge state bailout without losing their investment.

Equity lost everything here, it's about finding the most value and that's with the assets flying instead of sitting on the ground for two years waiting for the 787 leasing market to pick up. The leasing companies are making the best of a bad situation to recover what they can.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 11:57 am

lightsaber wrote:
Norwegian now majority owned by leasing companies:

https://money.usnews.com/investing/news ... tructuring

"Bondholders, lessors and shareholders recently agreed to a 12.7 billion crowns debt conversion and share sale that boosted Norwegian's equity, meeting a key aid condition."

"The recovery plan will see Norwegian operate seven aircraft for up to 12 months before building up to 110-120 planes in 2022, compared with almost 150 before the crisis."

Amazing, just under 150 to 7, with a slow increase to about 75% of the fleet in 18 months or so.

I personally didn't think Norwegian would survive. I guess for the stockholders it didn't... But it will fly again.

My two cents, this leaves an opportunity for AirBaltic, Wizz, Easyjet, Ryanair, and Volotea.


Interesting times. Up until COVID, I had always thought that the core Norwegian Air Shuttle (NAX / DY) would survive, but I assumed that would be with 15-20 737-800s and a handful of 787s. It's hard to see how a 7 aircraft operation will be viable but of course cash burn is what's most important right now.

Aviation737 wrote:
ELI5 what does this mean? Is this good news?


Depends who you are. If you're a Norwegian employee it's probably bad news (unless you're super senior). If you're a Norwegian shareholder it's not great but the shares were worth basically nothing anyway so you could hardly complain. If you're an SAS employee it's probably great news. If you're a Scandinavian consumer then it probably isn't.
First to fly the 787-9
 
a350lover
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 1:26 pm

"Sources in the industry" claim Norwegian looks to get back to Gatwick as demand recovers.

LGW would be the focus for long-haul ops.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/norw ... 9392879ac4
 
marcogr12
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed May 27, 2020 9:39 pm

On their site the LGW short haul flights seem to operate as normal...
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
a350lover
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Sun May 31, 2020 9:41 pm

Internal rumors claim Norwegian has revised the original plan to terminate SH out of CPH untill 2021. The revised plan is now to commence SH out of CPH starting 1st of September, pending removal of the travel restrictions.
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:29 am

But if they are planning on flying from CPH then does that mean they will have to keep more than just 7 planes? Maybe their investors/creditors have realized those flights were profitable and it makes little to no sense to cut them?
 
a350lover
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:26 am

Blerg wrote:
But if they are planning on flying from CPH then does that mean they will have to keep more than just 7 planes? Maybe their investors/creditors have realized those flights were profitable and it makes little to no sense to cut them?


Well... I reckon much more than just what these 7 planes are flying right now is profitable, many of it international to from Scandinavia. The thing is at what pace are they going to "defrost" from the current scenario in which they are. Competitors will grow sooner than later and Norwegian hasn't got much time for deciding...
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:15 pm

Dmoney wrote:
People here are amazingly ignorant about finance. There is no moral hazard here. The owners of the company, equity, have lost everything and been diluted down to 5% and then they've recapitalized the business and the debt holders have taken a huge write down and a majority share in a debt/equity swap.

This is how it's supposed to work. The owners loose everything before debt takes any hit, then debt takes a hit and then the government supports to help a viable company emerge.

Moral hazard is the US or what Virgin Atlantic wanted where equity gets a huge state bailout without losing their investment.

Equity lost everything here, it's about finding the most value and that's with the assets flying instead of sitting on the ground for two years waiting for the 787 leasing market to pick up. The leasing companies are making the best of a bad situation to recover what they can.


No moral hazard on airline ownership issue -- with you so far. No question: shareholders made a bet, shareholders lost, shareholders got (nearly) wiped out. Creditors took a haircut. No doubt it's fair.

Moral hazard is rampant with sale of advance bookings, for flights that will not operate. Now, the flying public becomes creditors. Should they also be taking a haircut? All of them, or only those who booked before reorganization? Or those who were booking after reorganization/into the COVID-19 crisis?
Some here are alleging that this is no longer "moral hazard" territory, and is entering "fraud" territory. Do you agree or disagree?
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Dmoney
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:32 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
Dmoney wrote:
People here are amazingly ignorant about finance. There is no moral hazard here. The owners of the company, equity, have lost everything and been diluted down to 5% and then they've recapitalized the business and the debt holders have taken a huge write down and a majority share in a debt/equity swap.

This is how it's supposed to work. The owners loose everything before debt takes any hit, then debt takes a hit and then the government supports to help a viable company emerge.

Moral hazard is the US or what Virgin Atlantic wanted where equity gets a huge state bailout without losing their investment.

Equity lost everything here, it's about finding the most value and that's with the assets flying instead of sitting on the ground for two years waiting for the 787 leasing market to pick up. The leasing companies are making the best of a bad situation to recover what they can.


No moral hazard on airline ownership issue -- with you so far. No question: shareholders made a bet, shareholders lost, shareholders got (nearly) wiped out. Creditors took a haircut. No doubt it's fair.

Moral hazard is rampant with sale of advance bookings, for flights that will not operate. Now, the flying public becomes creditors. Should they also be taking a haircut? All of them, or only those who booked before reorganization? Or those who were booking after reorganization/into the COVID-19 crisis?
Some here are alleging that this is no longer "moral hazard" territory, and is entering "fraud" territory. Do you agree or disagree?



Are we going to talk about the legalized extortion from the illegal anticompetitive payment providers visa and MasterCard? Norwegian aren't getting paid for the tickets they sell remember.

Are customers not going to be refunded? Is that your claim?
 
dstblj52
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:30 am

Dmoney wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Dmoney wrote:
People here are amazingly ignorant about finance. There is no moral hazard here. The owners of the company, equity, have lost everything and been diluted down to 5% and then they've recapitalized the business and the debt holders have taken a huge write down and a majority share in a debt/equity swap.

This is how it's supposed to work. The owners loose everything before debt takes any hit, then debt takes a hit and then the government supports to help a viable company emerge.

Moral hazard is the US or what Virgin Atlantic wanted where equity gets a huge state bailout without losing their investment.

Equity lost everything here, it's about finding the most value and that's with the assets flying instead of sitting on the ground for two years waiting for the 787 leasing market to pick up. The leasing companies are making the best of a bad situation to recover what they can.


No moral hazard on airline ownership issue -- with you so far. No question: shareholders made a bet, shareholders lost, shareholders got (nearly) wiped out. Creditors took a haircut. No doubt it's fair.

Moral hazard is rampant with sale of advance bookings, for flights that will not operate. Now, the flying public becomes creditors. Should they also be taking a haircut? All of them, or only those who booked before reorganization? Or those who were booking after reorganization/into the COVID-19 crisis?
Some here are alleging that this is no longer "moral hazard" territory, and is entering "fraud" territory. Do you agree or disagree?



Are we going to talk about the legalized extortion from the illegal anticompetitive payment providers visa and MasterCard? Norwegian aren't getting paid for the tickets they sell remember.

Are customers not going to be refunded? Is that your claim?

You don't have to accept visa and MasterCard but understandably they believe their going to be forced to return money to consumers who bought tickets through norwegian, and are those holding onto money until flights are operated. It's a policy all companies who accept payment through such vendors accept when signing the agreement, and it's better then consumers being hit when such companies fail.
 
Dmoney
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:44 am

dstblj52 wrote:
Dmoney wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:

No moral hazard on airline ownership issue -- with you so far. No question: shareholders made a bet, shareholders lost, shareholders got (nearly) wiped out. Creditors took a haircut. No doubt it's fair.

Moral hazard is rampant with sale of advance bookings, for flights that will not operate. Now, the flying public becomes creditors. Should they also be taking a haircut? All of them, or only those who booked before reorganization? Or those who were booking after reorganization/into the COVID-19 crisis?
Some here are alleging that this is no longer "moral hazard" territory, and is entering "fraud" territory. Do you agree or disagree?



Are we going to talk about the legalized extortion from the illegal anticompetitive payment providers visa and MasterCard? Norwegian aren't getting paid for the tickets they sell remember.

Are customers not going to be refunded? Is that your claim?

You don't have to accept visa and MasterCard but understandably they believe their going to be forced to return money to consumers who bought tickets through norwegian, and are those holding onto money until flights are operated. It's a policy all companies who accept payment through such vendors accept when signing the agreement, and it's better then consumers being hit when such companies fail.



For one that's their role, that's why they get paid. But they've been withholding payment for years and years which would destroy the cashflows of any company.

They should be regulated like the public utilities they are....
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:58 am

Dmoney wrote:
They should be regulated like the public utilities they are....


Mastercard and Visa are absolutely not public utilities. There are lots of other ways to get paid, bank transfer, use AMEX merchant services, use a domestic payment channel - in Europe there are many domestic-only payment networks. In Germany a bank transfer is very common - credit card usage is very low. Companies can also accept cash, of course. That companies choose not to have high street or physical representation to accept cash does not mean that Visa and MC are the only options - although they are dominant, I agree. By the way, this dominance has been tackled by the EU, who have imposed a maximum of 0.3% interbank fee within the EU 27.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Norwegian Puts 4 Subsidiaries Into Bankruptcy

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:02 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
I wonder if airlines could get through this period by selling vouchers for open-dated tickets with a 1 year validity or something like that. A lot of people do want to travel as soon as the situation allows and this would help airlines with cash flow.


That would be great if they made it feasible. In actual circumstances, this do not work as the "voucher-refund" process applied by Ryanair and BA, for example shows.

People do not trust them because once you get old of one of these vouchers, it does not guarantee you will actually be able to fly. They usually place a nominal value on them so, if your "future/refunded" flight is more expensive, your voucher will not cover for the full cost. Also, there's the possibility of airlines - in search of a better price later on - to restrict the usage of these vouchers to a certain number of flights as the actual reward program on mileage cards work rendering the whole process unattractive to the average passenger.

I myself am saddled with at least 4 reward flights from BA (miles and also "2 for one" anywhere in their network) plus a further one more form AF/KL which, even prior to COVID19 are very hard to use because of the restrictions imposed.
 
Someone83
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:15 am

a350lover wrote:
Blerg wrote:
But if they are planning on flying from CPH then does that mean they will have to keep more than just 7 planes? Maybe their investors/creditors have realized those flights were profitable and it makes little to no sense to cut them?


Well... I reckon much more than just what these 7 planes are flying right now is profitable, many of it international to from Scandinavia. The thing is at what pace are they going to "defrost" from the current scenario in which they are. Competitors will grow sooner than later and Norwegian hasn't got much time for deciding...


The "7 planes" is about what they need and currently uses to operate the current Norwegian domestic operations, that is partly funded by the Norwegian government (they also pay SAS and Widerøe for flying a minimum domestic operations). Any traffic that is started on top of these, whether we talk increase routes or frequencies in Norway, and international routes to/from Norway, or any operations outside their Norwegian base, implieas that they need more than those currently 7 aircraft that operated. Thus they must take out some aircraft from storage, which can be done on a rather short notice
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:03 pm

jonas12345 wrote:
Without slot alleviation, it'll be very hard for Norwegian to hang onto it's good slots across Europe. They may have too many aircraft by 2022


I don't think that'll be a problem, there are still plenty of airports where slots are available or even airports that aren't slot controlled at all. Of course these might not be their preferred airports, but it's better than nothing at all.

For example, let's say they are to give up their precious Gatwick slots. That doesn't have to mean they can't serve London anymore, they can still do so. Stansted still has some slots available and Southend isn't slot controlled. In fact Norwegian did fly to Stansted in the past before the moved over to Gatwick, so moving back to Stansted isn't that crazy.

Barcelona is another big Norwegian base and for now they have plenty of slots. But even if they'd lose them and can't get into Barcelona anymore, there are two alternative airports they can use. Just north of Barcelona is Girona, while at a similar distance south you find Reus. Neither of those airports is slot controlled. If Norwegian can't fly to Barcelona anymore, those are the next best thing.

Bottom line, there's always an airport they can fly to. Their network might look different, shutting down old routes and opening new ones. But they can grow back to the size they were before the Corona crisis. Just in a different shape.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:54 pm

Holy cow, I've been living under a rock! I had no idea things went so bad so fast for Norwegian. 7 planes?
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:13 am

Dmoney wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
Dmoney wrote:


Are we going to talk about the legalized extortion from the illegal anticompetitive payment providers visa and MasterCard? Norwegian aren't getting paid for the tickets they sell remember.

Are customers not going to be refunded? Is that your claim?

You don't have to accept visa and MasterCard but understandably they believe their going to be forced to return money to consumers who bought tickets through norwegian, and are those holding onto money until flights are operated. It's a policy all companies who accept payment through such vendors accept when signing the agreement, and it's better then consumers being hit when such companies fail.



For one that's their role, that's why they get paid. But they've been withholding payment for years and years which would destroy the cashflows of any company.

They should be regulated like the public utilities they are....

There are only really two solutions either remove the responsibility of credit card companies to provide refunds or accept that this can function as a death blow to financially vulnerable companies, but your correct these companies have been withholding from Norwegian for years because Norwegian has been on the edge of bankruptcy for years and years. Its consumer protection but honestly the aviation industry tends to kill weak companies just by people booking away from them.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4814
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:12 am

SE-RPI is now back in traffic from storage, so no they have 8 aircraft in active operations. Although they still only operate domestic flights in Norway
 
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PatrickZ80
Posts: 4233
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:44 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Holy cow, I've been living under a rock! I had no idea things went so bad so fast for Norwegian. 7 planes?


That's just temporary due to COVID-19. The rest of their planes are in storage and will no doubt return once the whole thing is over. Although they might need to rebuild their entire network. Well, at least that gives them the opportunity to build it properly. Before this whole thing they didn't really have a network, they had a bunch of flights. But it was aimed at O/D, it wasn't set up for connections. That was their biggest failure, they basically competed against themselves.

But that's all in the past. Curious to see if they'll do a better job this time.
 
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qf789
Moderator
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:05 am

Mod use only
Forum Moderator
 
Blerg
Posts: 3958
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:37 am

How many flights does DY operate right now? Airlines around Europe are slowly restarting their operations and returning to normal, what's the status on DY?
 
Someone83
Posts: 4814
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:06 am

Blerg wrote:
How many flights does DY operate right now? Airlines around Europe are slowly restarting their operations and returning to normal, what's the status on DY?


Tomorrow, I count 24 flights, all domestic from OSL
 
Blerg
Posts: 3958
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:10 am

Someone83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
How many flights does DY operate right now? Airlines around Europe are slowly restarting their operations and returning to normal, what's the status on DY?


Tomorrow, I count 24 flights, all domestic from OSL


Interesting, so they don't operate any international flights? Do we know when they might be resuming those?
 
alm1
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:43 am

They just loaded back for sale about 50 routes to fly in July, some of them at pre-covid high frequencies, like daily OSL-PLQ (which was 2-3 weekly last year).
 
aviator2000
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 11:19 am

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:47 am

Blerg wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
How many flights does DY operate right now? Airlines around Europe are slowly restarting their operations and returning to normal, what's the status on DY?


Tomorrow, I count 24 flights, all domestic from OSL


Interesting, so they don't operate any international flights? Do we know when they might be resuming those?


Yesterday Norwegian reopened reservations in their webpage for several Scandinavia - Spain routes (to name a few OSL, CPH, ARN, HEL, AGP, ALC, BCN) which are for sale from July. I'm not sure if the same is happening with other airports around Europe however if they did eventually operate those routes they would for sure need more than 7 aircraft.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:48 am

alm1 wrote:
They just loaded back for sale about 50 routes to fly in July, some of them at pre-covid high frequencies, like daily OSL-PLQ (which was 2-3 weekly last year).

more cash bleeding (like all airlines); having only one kind of planes doesn't really help them.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12842
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:03 pm

Mortyman wrote:
a350lover wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Lets face it, I don't think that anyone really know where the world will be in September...


Correct. I agree that applies for the majority of airlines around the world now.

However, Norwegian situation was critical way before covid. They presented a plan for what they called "New Norwegian" in which they start off with the scenario of 7 planes flying intra Norway, there's no point in selling tickets for the global market. Norwegian needs to decide how they are going to get back to the market taking into consideration the covid crisis and the affected demand, but also their debt situation and poor finances.



They will start with 7 planes and domestic, but ofcourse, if the world opens up, Norwegian is not gonna sit still.


For a bit of a laugh and since the share are dirt cheap right now I bought 1000 shares today for 3,42NOK per share. 12 months ago they were 50NOK per share.
Last edited by Kiwirob on Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Updated :Norwegian Bankruptcy

Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:12 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
a350lover wrote:

Correct. I agree that applies for the majority of airlines around the world now.

However, Norwegian situation was critical way before covid. They presented a plan for what they called "New Norwegian" in which they start off with the scenario of 7 planes flying intra Norway, there's no point in selling tickets for the global market. Norwegian needs to decide how they are going to get back to the market taking into consideration the covid crisis and the affected demand, but also their debt situation and poor finances.



They will start with 7 planes and domestic, but ofcourse, if the world opens up, Norwegian is not gonna sit still.


For a bit of a laugh and since the share are dirt cheap right now I bought 1000 shares today. 12 months ago they were 50nok per share.


Well you just threw that money on a bonfire.

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