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Brickell305
Topic Author
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JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:16 pm

B6 announced in an internal memo that it would be requiring salaried frontline staff and support staff to take 24 days of unpaid time off. Seems like a rather interesting workaround to the employment requirements of the CARES Act. Could other airlines follow suit? Will the government intervene in any way as this appears to violate the spirit, if not the letter, of the CARES Act?

https://onemileatatime.com/jetblue-forc ... -time-off/
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7593
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:20 pm

I think this is going to wind up in court.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:02 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I think this is going to wind up in court.


I don't think there is a court in the United States that will side with Jetblue. If they don't get pressured from their federal representatives in Congress, a federal lawsuit will soon follow.
 
tphuang
Posts: 4877
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:07 pm

I don't know if this is for all frontline staff or just non-unionized ones. I would imagine ALPA would fight them hard on this one if they imposed this on pilots.
 
NW
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:37 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:58 pm

Delta has done something similar. All non union employees at Delta are required to reduce their hours by 25% over the period from April 1 through June 30. Technically not a pay or benefit cut, this is how they are getting around the CARES act.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7593
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:12 pm

I'm not sure Delta is going to get away with that, either, but 32 hours a week is still generally recognized as full time employment. Twenty-four unpaid days off is not.
 
NW
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:37 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I'm not sure Delta is going to get away with that, either, but 32 hours a week is still generally recognized as full time employment. Twenty-four unpaid days off is not.


It's almost exactly the same at Delta. Delta full time employees have to take one week off a month for three months, 15 days. If Delta was requiring this for 5 months it would be 25 days. It equates to 30 hours a week. Pretty much the same percentage reduction as JetBlue, just not as long.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3654
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:22 pm

I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.
 
pdxtraveller
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:50 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:22 pm

NW wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I'm not sure Delta is going to get away with that, either, but 32 hours a week is still generally recognized as full time employment. Twenty-four unpaid days off is not.


It's almost exactly the same at Delta. Delta full time employees have to take one week off a month for three months, 15 days. If Delta was requiring this for 5 months it would be 25 days. It equates to 30 hours a week. Pretty much the same percentage reduction as JetBlue, just not as long.


Is this true for corporate salaried staff as well?
 
N766UA
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:32 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


You hope jetBlue employees become *violently* militant. Are you serious?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3654
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:44 pm

N766UA wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


You hope jetBlue employees become *violently* militant. Are you serious?


It would make my day to see B6 staff storm Kew Gardens and flagellate their executive team.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:49 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I'm not sure Delta is going to get away with that, either, but 32 hours a week is still generally recognized as full time employment. Twenty-four unpaid days off is not.


Well, I'd certainly love to be made whole. FWIW, this 25% cut was made before CARES awards. My guess is that DL will tell the government (or the court) that they "had to move fast" to avoid involuntary layoffs.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4845
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:57 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.

Here's the real question. Is B6 viable and solvent even with the Govt loans? Could be? they might already be sliding under the waves. If this goes on much longer?
We might be seeing the crest of a wave coming. Just saying. B6 has some good realestate at JFK They would be ripe for the takeover if things go sideways.
 
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chepos
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:08 am

usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.

To be fair, all airlines asked for exemptions to service reqs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
joeblow10
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:11 am

NWAESC wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I'm not sure Delta is going to get away with that, either, but 32 hours a week is still generally recognized as full time employment. Twenty-four unpaid days off is not.


Well, I'd certainly love to be made whole. FWIW, this 25% cut was made before CARES awards. My guess is that DL will tell the government (or the court) that they "had to move fast" to avoid involuntary layoffs.


Wasn’t it made the day before CARES passed? Seems like rather coincident timing...
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 2152
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:35 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:14 am

I'm a crewmember that falls into the category of folks who need to take unpaid time off. It is 24 days between today and the end of September, which is when some of the bailout loans need to start being repaid, and this can be spread out over that time. So this is roughly 1.2 days per week, or a ~24% pay cut over those 5 months. I'll be honest, if this helps lessen the hemorrhaging to allow the CARES money to last longer and keep me off the unemployment line, so be it. I've done this before when working for the State of NY. It sucks but at least I had a job then like I will now.

Usflyer msp, just so you know, they have not had a headquarters in Kew Gardens in many years. They have moved twice since their Kew Gardens office space.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
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NWAESC
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:17 am

joeblow10 wrote:

Wasn’t it made the day before CARES passed? Seems like rather coincident timing...


I think so, but it was some time before they applied and were awarded anything. Definitely "convenient" either way...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3654
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:30 am

chepos wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.

To be fair, all airlines asked for exemptions to service reqs.

To be fair, most of the network carrier requests involved seasonal routes not just dropping stations because they were losing alot of money.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 426
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:10 am

B6JFKH81 wrote:
I'm a crewmember that falls into the category of folks who need to take unpaid time off. It is 24 days between today and the end of September, which is when some of the bailout loans need to start being repaid, and this can be spread out over that time. So this is roughly 1.2 days per week, or a ~24% pay cut over those 5 months. I'll be honest, if this helps lessen the hemorrhaging to allow the CARES money to last longer and keep me off the unemployment line, so be it. I've done this before when working for the State of NY. It sucks but at least I had a job then like I will now.

Usflyer msp, just so you know, they have not had a headquarters in Kew Gardens in many years. They have moved twice since their Kew Gardens office space.

Thank you for supplying the facts for everyone here. I wish you good luck to get thru this quickly.
 
tphuang
Posts: 4877
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:11 am

B6JFKH81 wrote:
I'm a crewmember that falls into the category of folks who need to take unpaid time off. It is 24 days between today and the end of September, which is when some of the bailout loans need to start being repaid, and this can be spread out over that time. So this is roughly 1.2 days per week, or a ~24% pay cut over those 5 months. I'll be honest, if this helps lessen the hemorrhaging to allow the CARES money to last longer and keep me off the unemployment line, so be it. I've done this before when working for the State of NY. It sucks but at least I had a job then like I will now.

Usflyer msp, just so you know, they have not had a headquarters in Kew Gardens in many years. They have moved twice since their Kew Gardens office space.

Good luck. All the best and thanks for providing us with many great info here.
 
Ursula21
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:42 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:22 am

These airlines basically wrote the law and Delta received their grant approval even with their 25% unpaid time off. The only thing they haven't been able to avoid are the strings attached to the loans as the airlines turning those down were told it's a package deal. Given that context and the letter of the law, I expect unpaid partial furloughs to continue across all airlines but with full benefits. There's probably a gentleman's agreement with Schumer to not go below 25%, but I expect Delta to continue the same through September.
 
catiii
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:48 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
I'm not sure Delta is going to get away with that, either, but 32 hours a week is still generally recognized as full time employment. Twenty-four unpaid days off is not.


JetBlue is asking that you take 24 unpaid days over a 24 week period through September 30th. It's about one day a week, which is a 20% reduction in hours. It's the same as a 32 hour week. Relax.
Last edited by catiii on Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
catiii
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:51 am

strfyr51 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.

Here's the real question. Is B6 viable and solvent even with the Govt loans? Could be? they might already be sliding under the waves. If this goes on much longer?
We might be seeing the crest of a wave coming. Just saying. B6 has some good realestate at JFK They would be ripe for the takeover if things go sideways.


From a liquidity perspective JetBlue is better positioned than UA, DL, AA, AS, and NK.
 
catiii
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:52 am

usflyer msp wrote:
N766UA wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


You hope jetBlue employees become *violently* militant. Are you serious?


It would make my day to see B6 staff storm Kew Gardens and flagellate their executive team.


Knock yourself out. No one has been in Kew for what...17 years? And spoken like someone who doesn't work at JetBlue and isnt in the industry. Another wannabe on the outside looking in...
 
catiii
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:54 am

usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


Do you have the same outrage with:

UA management?
AA management?
DL management?
AS management?
NK management?
FK management?
HA management?
WN management?

Because those three things you've mentioned are standard for every US airline. I know you couldn't get hired at JetBlue, and I'm sorry for that, but you really ought to think before you post.
 
cpl22586
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:39 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:54 am

usflyer msp wrote:
N766UA wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


You hope jetBlue employees become *violently* militant. Are you serious?


It would make my day to see B6 staff storm Kew Gardens and flagellate their executive team.


B6 Headquarters hasn't been in Kew Gardens since 2012
 
catiii
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:58 am

cpl22586 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
N766UA wrote:

You hope jetBlue employees become *violently* militant. Are you serious?


It would make my day to see B6 staff storm Kew Gardens and flagellate their executive team.


B6 Headquarters hasn't been in Kew Gardens since 2012


Kew predated Forest Hills, which was vacated in 2012.
 
cpl22586
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:39 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:03 am

catiii wrote:
cpl22586 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

It would make my day to see B6 staff storm Kew Gardens and flagellate their executive team.


B6 Headquarters hasn't been in Kew Gardens since 2012


Kew predated Forest Hills, which was vacated in 2012.



I know they were in Forest Hills which they vacated in 2012, forgot that they were in Kew Gardens before that.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7593
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:22 am

Ursula21 wrote:
There's probably a gentleman's agreement with Schumer to not go below 25%, but I expect Delta to continue the same through September.

Schumer doesn't work for Treasury nor the DOT. Care to explain his role in CARES Act implementation?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7593
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:23 am

catiii wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I'm not sure Delta is going to get away with that, either, but 32 hours a week is still generally recognized as full time employment. Twenty-four unpaid days off is not.


JetBlue is asking that you take 24 unpaid days over a 24 week period through September 30th. It's about one day a week, which is a 20% reduction in hours. It's the same as a 32 hour week. Relax.

Spoken like someone a little short on empathy and solidarity still collecting 100% of pay.
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:45 am

strfyr51 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.

Here's the real question. Is B6 viable and solvent even with the Govt loans? Could be? they might already be sliding under the waves. If this goes on much longer?
We might be seeing the crest of a wave coming. Just saying. B6 has some good realestate at JFK They would be ripe for the takeover if things go sideways.


If things "go sideways" to the point where B6 is put out of business I can't imagine a scenario where any remaining carrier would have the money or bandwidth to make this sort of thing work.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2641
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:47 am

While I am not a huge fan of airlines and how they treat their passengers in good times, some of the posts in this thread by a few individuals are indicative of young people that did not see what happened to Pan Am, Eastern, Continental, Braniff, etc. The airline industry is in dire straights right now. During profitable times, it is one of the thinnest profit margin businesses out there. In bad times, airlines lose lots of money. In times like this, they are hemorrhaging. If you encourage "hardball" labor tactics, you are going to see a lot of carriers go down. Whether you hold a grudge against airlines or you're pulling your union card out, it does not help anyone if the airline goes down and there are going to be casualties from this. You need to be realistic.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3654
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:48 am

catiii wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


Do you have the same outrage with:

UA management?
AA management?
DL management?
AS management?
NK management?
FK management?
HA management?
WN management?

Because those three things you've mentioned are standard for every US airline. I know you couldn't get hired at JetBlue, and I'm sorry for that, but you really ought to think before you post.



UA has been crappy about refunds as well but they are keep.staff employed and are not attempting to drop year round destinations.

DL has been crappy about keeping staff employed but they they have been giving refunds and not attemption to drop year round destinations.

AA has tried some shenanigans with dropping flights to Hawaii but has been giving refunds and keeping people employed.

Only B6, which is supposed to have such a superior worker and passenger friendly culture has tried all three negative moves in a major way. Stop drinking the blue koolaid.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3654
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:54 am

crownvic wrote:
While I am not a huge fan of airlines and how they treat their passengers in good times, some of the posts in this thread by a few individuals are indicative of young people that did not see what happened to Pan Am, Eastern, Continental, Braniff, etc. The airline industry is in dire straights right now. During profitable times, it is one of the thinnest profit margin businesses out there. In bad times, airlines lose lots of money. In times like this, they are hemorrhaging. If you encourage "hardball" labor tactics, you are going to see a lot of carriers go down. Whether you hold a grudge against airlines or you're pulling your union card out, it does not help anyone if the airline goes down and there are going to be casualties from this. You need to be realistic.


I'm 40, I was alive then. I would be more sympathetic to B6 management if they had not taken the bailout money but I just find it appalling to take the funds and then do everything in your power to avoid having to meet the clear conditions associated with the funding.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4666
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:19 am

interesting. Yeah i have to imagine this will end up in court.

I think they can legally make staff use paid vacation time they have accrued in some states. Not sure they can force you to take unpaid leave in most states. I doubt NY is a state that would allow this. Vermont is one i think they could because its an at-will employment state, neighboring NY i doubt they can pull this off. Remember the airlines all tried to not give refunds either when they clearly had to, so just cause they are trying doesn't mean its legal.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:25 am

usflyer msp wrote:
N766UA wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


You hope jetBlue employees become *violently* militant. Are you serious?


It would make my day to see B6 staff storm Kew Gardens and flagellate their executive team.


*storm Long Island City
 
maverick4002
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:30 am

catiii wrote:
cpl22586 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

It would make my day to see B6 staff storm Kew Gardens and flagellate their executive team.


B6 Headquarters hasn't been in Kew Gardens since 2012


Kew predated Forest Hills, which was vacated in 2012.


I mean not important but before moving to LIC, werent they in Kew Gardens. They were in the building on Queens Blvd, just off of Union Turnpike, thats Kew Gardens. Did they move to Forest Hills before moving to LIC?
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:31 am

usflyer msp wrote:
catiii wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


Do you have the same outrage with:

UA management?
AA management?
DL management?
AS management?
NK management?
FK management?
HA management?
WN management?

Because those three things you've mentioned are standard for every US airline. I know you couldn't get hired at JetBlue, and I'm sorry for that, but you really ought to think before you post.



UA has been crappy about refunds as well but they are keep.staff employed and are not attempting to drop year round destinations.

DL has been crappy about keeping staff employed but they they have been giving refunds and not attemption to drop year round destinations.

AA has tried some shenanigans with dropping flights to Hawaii but has been giving refunds and keeping people employed.

Only B6, which is supposed to have such a superior worker and passenger friendly culture has tried all three negative moves in a major way. Stop drinking the blue koolaid.

UA requested suspension of OGG/KOA/ITO and LIH until 9/30. They dropped SJU until May 6. Granted for all those destinations demand has been dramatically reduced.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
catiii
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:44 am

usflyer msp wrote:
catiii wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


Do you have the same outrage with:

UA management?
AA management?
DL management?
AS management?
NK management?
FK management?
HA management?
WN management?

Because those three things you've mentioned are standard for every US airline. I know you couldn't get hired at JetBlue, and I'm sorry for that, but you really ought to think before you post.



UA has been crappy about refunds as well but they are keep.staff employed and are not attempting to drop year round destinations.

DL has been crappy about keeping staff employed but they they have been giving refunds and not attemption to drop year round destinations.

AA has tried some shenanigans with dropping flights to Hawaii but has been giving refunds and keeping people employed.

Only B6, which is supposed to have such a superior worker and passenger friendly culture has tried all three negative moves in a major way. Stop drinking the blue koolaid.


JetBlue is “keeping staff employed.” No one has been furloughed or laid off.

Delta has 30,000 employees on partial/unpaid leave and were just sued over refunds: https://www.ajc.com/blog/airport/delta- ... iU1RXsTvJ/

AA pushed out so much partial and unpaid leave to pilots they had to back away from it: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronav ... leave.html

UA has submitted a number of DOT exemptions, and they haven’t been ruled on yet.

It’s so easy to refute what you say because facts don’t lie. Only you do. :rotfl:
 
catiii
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:45 am

usflyer msp wrote:
crownvic wrote:
While I am not a huge fan of airlines and how they treat their passengers in good times, some of the posts in this thread by a few individuals are indicative of young people that did not see what happened to Pan Am, Eastern, Continental, Braniff, etc. The airline industry is in dire straights right now. During profitable times, it is one of the thinnest profit margin businesses out there. In bad times, airlines lose lots of money. In times like this, they are hemorrhaging. If you encourage "hardball" labor tactics, you are going to see a lot of carriers go down. Whether you hold a grudge against airlines or you're pulling your union card out, it does not help anyone if the airline goes down and there are going to be casualties from this. You need to be realistic.


I'm 40, I was alive then. I would be more sympathetic to B6 management if they had not taken the bailout money but I just find it appalling to take the funds and then do everything in your power to avoid having to meet the clear conditions associated with the funding.


The be appalled at every other carrier who is doing the same thing.
 
Ursula21
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:42 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:27 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Ursula21 wrote:
There's probably a gentleman's agreement with Schumer to not go below 25%, but I expect Delta to continue the same through September.

Schumer doesn't work for Treasury nor the DOT. Care to explain his role in CARES Act implementation?

Rumor was he was responsible for pushing the grants through during the negotiation as a form of worker protection. The airlines asked for it originally but didn't get it right away, so I'm just guessing based on the closed door process they all understood that the grants would be used after September and that other self help measures would continue even after grant acceptance, during law writing. It's hard for me to believe that Schumer would have pushed for the grants while simultaneously not knowing the airlines would force some amount of unpaid leave, especially given the timing of the Delta memo. All just speculation but seeing how easy it would have been to require no hour cut or that it be spent by September covering the full payroll, I'm guessing it was not an oversight but known before the law was passed meaning a lawsuit probably won't go anywhere.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 655
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:02 pm

crownvic wrote:
While I am not a huge fan of airlines and how they treat their passengers in good times, some of the posts in this thread by a few individuals are indicative of young people that did not see what happened to Pan Am, Eastern, Continental, Braniff, etc. The airline industry is in dire straights right now. During profitable times, it is one of the thinnest profit margin businesses out there. In bad times, airlines lose lots of money. In times like this, they are hemorrhaging. If you encourage "hardball" labor tactics, you are going to see a lot of carriers go down. Whether you hold a grudge against airlines or you're pulling your union card out, it does not help anyone if the airline goes down and there are going to be casualties from this. You need to be realistic.



For the reasons you mentioned , I support further consolidation in the industry and maybe even a return to some regulation. Airlines are a required industry and service and the employees should not have to go through this constant boom and bust, nor should the flying public.

If profit margins are that thin even in the best of times, then that means we have TOO much competition (like Agriculture, where farmers are letting their crops rot and going bankrupt).

Face it, the airlines provided much better pay and lifestyles back in the days before deregulation. Lets all return to the golden age. Pay more for your tickets and sit down everyone.

And to Catiii: lets see what tune you sing when they cut a ton more fat off B6's very bloated middle management and support staff. Oh, and transfer all the call centers to the Philippines.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:09 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
catiii wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I'm not sure Delta is going to get away with that, either, but 32 hours a week is still generally recognized as full time employment. Twenty-four unpaid days off is not.


JetBlue is asking that you take 24 unpaid days over a 24 week period through September 30th. It's about one day a week, which is a 20% reduction in hours. It's the same as a 32 hour week. Relax.

Spoken like someone a little short on empathy and solidarity still collecting 100% of pay.

JetBlue must cut cash burn to survive.


No one has to like it.

In Los Angeles, half the workers lost income (notice I did not say unemployment). There will be no V recovery.

Until the subways are closed, this won't end for NYC. There are multiple reasons it is having a large fraction of cases.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
dopplerd
Posts: 101
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:18 pm

As long as the company leadership is only taking compensation equal to the what the frontliners are currently making with the 24 unpaid days off then I'm ok with this policy.

At the company I work for the the CEO took a large percentage pay cut. His annual compensation AFTER the cut is $4M. So it rings a little hollow when people living paycheck to paycheck with high deductible health care are asked to "share" the pain.
 
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TheLunchbox
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:40 pm

lightsaber wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
catiii wrote:

JetBlue is asking that you take 24 unpaid days over a 24 week period through September 30th. It's about one day a week, which is a 20% reduction in hours. It's the same as a 32 hour week. Relax.

Spoken like someone a little short on empathy and solidarity still collecting 100% of pay.

JetBlue must cut cash burn to survive.


No one has to like it.

In Los Angeles, half the workers lost income (notice I did not say unemployment). There will be no V recovery.

Until the subways are closed, this won't end for NYC. There are multiple reasons it is having a large fraction of cases.

Lightsaber


To be fair, I take the subway 4 days a week during peak times and there's anywhere between 2-15 people in a train car at any time and it's extremely rare to see 15. i'd say 9/10 wear masks as well.
 
lowfareair
Posts: 308
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:48 pm

catiii wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
catiii wrote:

Do you have the same outrage with:

UA management?
AA management?
DL management?
AS management?
NK management?
FK management?
HA management?
WN management?

Because those three things you've mentioned are standard for every US airline. I know you couldn't get hired at JetBlue, and I'm sorry for that, but you really ought to think before you post.



UA has been crappy about refunds as well but they are keep.staff employed and are not attempting to drop year round destinations.

DL has been crappy about keeping staff employed but they they have been giving refunds and not attemption to drop year round destinations.

AA has tried some shenanigans with dropping flights to Hawaii but has been giving refunds and keeping people employed.

Only B6, which is supposed to have such a superior worker and passenger friendly culture has tried all three negative moves in a major way. Stop drinking the blue koolaid.


JetBlue is “keeping staff employed.” No one has been furloughed or laid off.

AA pushed out so much partial and unpaid leave to pilots they had to back away from it: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronav ... leave.html


AA pushed out so much **voluntary** leave to pilots. Not a single hour of what you linked to is being forced on them.

What's wrong with asking for voluntary leave? Sounds way better than the forced ~25% paycut that jetBlue is forcing on many staff members, unless I missed the memo and the 24 days of 'flexible furlough' is completely voluntary.
 
catiii
Posts: 3473
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:11 pm

lowfareair wrote:
catiii wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:


UA has been crappy about refunds as well but they are keep.staff employed and are not attempting to drop year round destinations.

DL has been crappy about keeping staff employed but they they have been giving refunds and not attemption to drop year round destinations.

AA has tried some shenanigans with dropping flights to Hawaii but has been giving refunds and keeping people employed.

Only B6, which is supposed to have such a superior worker and passenger friendly culture has tried all three negative moves in a major way. Stop drinking the blue koolaid.


JetBlue is “keeping staff employed.” No one has been furloughed or laid off.

AA pushed out so much partial and unpaid leave to pilots they had to back away from it: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronav ... leave.html


AA pushed out so much **voluntary** leave to pilots. Not a single hour of what you linked to is being forced on them.

What's wrong with asking for voluntary leave? Sounds way better than the forced ~25% paycut that jetBlue is forcing on many staff members, unless I missed the memo and the 24 days of 'flexible furlough' is completely voluntary.


You do realize every carrier is doing this, right?
 
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DL717
Posts: 2144
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:13 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
B6 announced in an internal memo that it would be requiring salaried frontline staff and support staff to take 24 days of unpaid time off. Seems like a rather interesting workaround to the employment requirements of the CARES Act. Could other airlines follow suit? Will the government intervene in any way as this appears to violate the spirit, if not the letter, of the CARES Act?

https://onemileatatime.com/jetblue-forc ... -time-off/


I think I'd rather take a day off than get furloughed, which is inevitable if this keeps up. A $1000 check won't do squat for you.

One of the reasons the carriers are only getting 70% in payroll grants and another 30% in loans is because they will probably end up furloughing 30% of the staff. If they want to keep additional staff, they can get a loan for it. The other "bail out" is for the operation should they choose to excercise it. This is no different from the post 9/11 ATSB program where the government made $300 million in profit. I've seen people complain that the airlines are getting a better deal than the small businesses, but it's unfounded. The airlines will come back. People have to travel. People don't need a $5 cup of coffee in tough times. A small business has their loan forgiven if they keep their employees through this mess. The airlines simply have better economic viability over the long term than a small business. It's truly a miracle that the economy hasn't completely collapsed. A large chunk of the economy has been able to remain up and running with the ability to work from home. Imagine this happening 50 years ago. People would be in soup lines already.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
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glideslope
Posts: 1607
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Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:23 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


Great suggestion. Just what the country needs now, more calls for violence. Thats why we have a court system. Enough of the talk of violence. I've seen enough to last my lifetime.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
seat1a
Posts: 593
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:24 pm

What's happening at HA? Are they taking pay cuts at the staff level or asking folks for leave?

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