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JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:25 pm

catiii wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
catiii wrote:

JetBlue is “keeping staff employed.” No one has been furloughed or laid off.

AA pushed out so much partial and unpaid leave to pilots they had to back away from it: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/coronav ... leave.html


AA pushed out so much **voluntary** leave to pilots. Not a single hour of what you linked to is being forced on them.

What's wrong with asking for voluntary leave? Sounds way better than the forced ~25% paycut that jetBlue is forcing on many staff members, unless I missed the memo and the 24 days of 'flexible furlough' is completely voluntary.


You do realize every carrier is doing this, right?

Only Jetblue and Delta (edit: and AS per poster below) are forcing unpaid involuntary leaves via reduced hours or forced time off. Every carrier is not doing this. Do your research.

All Carriers are reducing employees to normal minimum required hours: i.e. 40 hours for a full time employee, etc. Only Delta and JetBlue have gone further by involuntarily lowering below 40 hours/week.
Last edited by JAMBOJET on Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
flybaurlax
Posts: 621
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:34 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:49 pm

You do realize every carrier is doing this, right?[/quote]
Only Jetblue and Delta are forcing unpaid involuntary leaves via reduced hours or forced time off. Every carrier is not doing this. Do your research.

All Carriers are reducing employees to normal minimum required hours: i.e. 40 hours for a full time employee, etc. Only Delta and JetBlue have gone further by involuntarily lowering below 40 hours/week.[/quote]


That's not true. AS has cut hours for all non-union employees. Most have received a 10% cut in hours (including myself).

https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2020-03- ... serve-cash
Boilerup! Go Purdue!
 
KFTG
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:49 pm

There have been no involuntary pay cuts or reduction in hours at United. In fact every chance they get, the company reaffirms their intention to not do so until October 1.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:55 pm

flybaurlax wrote:
You do realize every carrier is doing this, right?
Only Jetblue and Delta are forcing unpaid involuntary leaves via reduced hours or forced time off. Every carrier is not doing this. Do your research.

All Carriers are reducing employees to normal minimum required hours: i.e. 40 hours for a full time employee, etc. Only Delta and JetBlue have gone further by involuntarily lowering below 40 hours/week.


That's not true. AS has cut hours for all non-union employees. Most have received a 10% cut in hours (including myself).

https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2020-03- ... serve-cash

edited. thanks.
 
Mikeer50
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:12 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:59 pm

The grant money really only helps the employees!!!! Maybe Jetblue (and Delta, American, etc.) should have just passed on the free government hand out and furloughed 70% of the workforce on April, 1st. The government money is simply NOT ENOUGH for everyone to get paid at 100% of their previous salary for the next 5.5 months, period. The Airlines have all the information (future bookings, trends), they know this will not be a V shaped recovery. I can’t blame them if they don’t want to spend money they don’t have on employees they don’t need. Most people employed at an airline right now realize (unlike the geniuses on this forum) that they are lucky to have a job. There won’t be a lawsuit because no one wants to rock the boat and kill the golden goose. It’s seems the reality of the situation has been missed by a lot of the armchair CEOs on this board.

As far as asking for relief on some of the routes goes, this is INSANITY!!! The government is making JetBlue (and other airlines) fly mostly empty planes into each other’s hubs and seasonal airports. What’s the point of JetBlue flying between BOS and MSP or JFK and IAH. Even worse is making Jetblue fly from JFK to ABQ, BZM, HDN, PSP, etc? I’m most familiar with Jetblue, but all airlines are having the same issues. This is causing airlines to move additional possibly Covid-19 infected people around the country. It’s also needlessly increasing the airlines carbon footprint (if you care about that stuff). This was simply a way for the government to save face about the grant money and show the American people they are still the boss. It’s like when a kid asks a parent “why” and the answer is “because I said so.”
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6089
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:05 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
crownvic wrote:
While I am not a huge fan of airlines and how they treat their passengers in good times, some of the posts in this thread by a few individuals are indicative of young people that did not see what happened to Pan Am, Eastern, Continental, Braniff, etc. The airline industry is in dire straights right now. During profitable times, it is one of the thinnest profit margin businesses out there. In bad times, airlines lose lots of money. In times like this, they are hemorrhaging. If you encourage "hardball" labor tactics, you are going to see a lot of carriers go down. Whether you hold a grudge against airlines or you're pulling your union card out, it does not help anyone if the airline goes down and there are going to be casualties from this. You need to be realistic.


I'm 40, I was alive then. I would be more sympathetic to B6 management if they had not taken the bailout money but I just find it appalling to take the funds and then do everything in your power to avoid having to meet the clear conditions associated with the funding.


You were somewhere between 2 and 11 years old when those carriers went under. How many children were aware of and conversant in the industry?
 
AA747123
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:15 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:29 pm

The CARES act does exempt certain workgroups from immediate furloughs and other acts. Salaried management and other support staff are exempt work groups and can furlough those employees immediately and do not have to wait till the end of the CARES act.
 
NW
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:37 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:31 pm

pdxtraveller wrote:
NW wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I'm not sure Delta is going to get away with that, either, but 32 hours a week is still generally recognized as full time employment. Twenty-four unpaid days off is not.


It's almost exactly the same at Delta. Delta full time employees have to take one week off a month for three months, 15 days. If Delta was requiring this for 5 months it would be 25 days. It equates to 30 hours a week. Pretty much the same percentage reduction as JetBlue, just not as long.


Is this true for corporate salaried staff as well?


Yes, all non union employees must take a 25% reduction in hours via taking one or two days off per week. Salaried employees pay will be reduced to reflect the hours reduction.
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:45 pm

Mikeer50 wrote:
The grant money really only helps the employees!!!! Maybe Jetblue (and Delta, American, etc.) should have just passed on the free government hand out and furloughed 70% of the workforce on April, 1st. The government money is simply NOT ENOUGH for everyone to get paid at 100% of their previous salary for the next 5.5 months, period. The Airlines have all the information (future bookings, trends), they know this will not be a V shaped recovery. I can’t blame them if they don’t want to spend money they don’t have on employees they don’t need. Most people employed at an airline right now realize (unlike the geniuses on this forum) that they are lucky to have a job. There won’t be a lawsuit because no one wants to rock the boat and kill the golden goose. It’s seems the reality of the situation has been missed by a lot of the armchair CEOs on this board.

As far as asking for relief on some of the routes goes, this is INSANITY!!! The government is making JetBlue (and other airlines) fly mostly empty planes into each other’s hubs and seasonal airports. What’s the point of JetBlue flying between BOS and MSP or JFK and IAH. Even worse is making Jetblue fly from JFK to ABQ, BZM, HDN, PSP, etc? I’m most familiar with Jetblue, but all airlines are having the same issues. This is causing airlines to move additional possibly Covid-19 infected people around the country. It’s also needlessly increasing the airlines carbon footprint (if you care about that stuff). This was simply a way for the government to save face about the grant money and show the American people they are still the boss. It’s like when a kid asks a parent “why” and the answer is “because I said so.”


My hunch continues to be there will end up never being any large scale layoffs at any of the major carriers because I suspect a 6 month add on to the CARES act from 10/1-3/31 will occur and by 4/1 the industry/global economy will likely be markedly recovered. It’ll still be in catastrophe mode relative to 2014-2019 but about 500,000 times better than now. That said there will be continued reductions in hours and VLOAs through that time
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1862
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:45 pm

America's Railroad is also requesting it's employees to do the same. This seems to be one way of getting around no lay offs as mandated by the Act.
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1523
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:08 pm

glideslope wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I have really not cared for the behaviour of B6 management during this crisis.

1) Going to extraordinary lengths to avoid giving refunds.
2) Trying to get an exemption to CARES act service requirements
3) pulling this stunt with hours.

I hope the B6 staff pull an Air France and become violently militant.


Great suggestion. Just what the country needs now, more calls for violence. Thats why we have a court system. Enough of the talk of violence. I've seen enough to last my lifetime.


What the AF employees did was aggressive but not what I would call "violent", as no blood was shed. Somebody lost their shirt, and that was that. But the fact remains that the French have been much more successful at passing through job protection clauses both in their labor law and in their CBAs, and this has ensured that many of them have kept their jobs over the years. Working at AF may not be that lucrative, but it is steady and comes with good benefits. Medical insurance is handled by the government. That's much more than I can say for jobs at US airlines.
 
bhill
Posts: 1835
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:12 pm

Ahhh...are the employees truly "salaried?" If so, this will not fly. As I understand the Labor Laws, salaried is just that, you get a fixed pay regardless of the hours worked; it is assumed it is 40hrs/wk. Now, you may have to enter time, but that is just for record keeping. This is why salaried employees do not get OT.
Carpe Pices
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15732
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:25 pm

bhill wrote:
Ahhh...are the employees truly "salaried?" If so, this will not fly. As I understand the Labor Laws, salaried is just that, you get a fixed pay regardless of the hours worked; it is assumed it is 40hrs/wk. Now, you may have to enter time, but that is just for record keeping. This is why salaried employees do not get OT.


Yes, salaried employees are paid an annual salary that is accounted for on the basis of 40 hours per week. As the CARES Act does not permit a reduction in the rate of pay, some carriers are requiring salaried management employees - myself included - to put in fewer hours per week to help the money from the CARES Act go further. Think of it as a “financial flattening of the curve,” if you will, just from a different perspective.
Last edited by EA CO AS on Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
catiii
Posts: 3588
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue requiring staff to take unpaid leave

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:28 pm

LNCS0930 wrote:
My hunch continues to be there will end up never being any large scale layoffs at any of the major carriers because I suspect a 6 month add on to the CARES act from 10/1-3/31 will occur and by 4/1 the industry/global economy will likely be markedly recovered. It’ll still be in catastrophe mode relative to 2014-2019 but about 500,000 times better than now. That said there will be continued reductions in hours and VLOAs through that time


Man I hope you're right about demand recovery.

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