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MrGtheSheepA346
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Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:15 pm

The An-148 is a high-wing monoplane meaning the engines and wing structure are protected against foreign object damage. This configuration allows the An-148 to be used at poorly equipped airfields. Taking into account that 93 airports in India have unpaved runways, it surprises me that the Antonov AN148 so far didn't receive any orders from Indian Airlines. Capacity-wise there seems to be a market for this (type of) plane, since for example, Indigo operates 23 ATR72s. The Indian Air Force, though not a civilian airline, is also familiar with operating and using non-Western aircraft. When we add all this up, India seems to be a likely market for the An-148 and yet there are no An-148s operated by Indian Airlines, why is this?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:23 pm

MrGtheSheepA346 wrote:
The An-148 is a high-wing monoplane meaning the engines and wing structure are protected against foreign object damage. This configuration allows the An-148 to be used at poorly equipped airfields. Taking into account that 93 airports in India have unpaved runways, it surprises me that the Antonov AN148 so far didn't receive any orders from Indian Airlines. Capacity-wise there seems to be a market for this (type of) plane, since for example, Indigo operates 23 ATR72s. The Indian Air Force, though not a civilian airline, is also familiar with operating and using non-Western aircraft. When we add all this up, India seems to be a likely market for the An-148 and yet there are no An-148s operated by Indian Airlines, why is this?


Because the job can be done just a well and cheaper using the ATR, Q400, An-32, HS.748 and the upcoming C-295?
 
argentinevol98
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:55 pm

The An-148 isn't (and won't be) successful anywhere. It seems to be a decent design but the support network is nearly non-existent and the aircraft depends on joint Russian/Ukrainian cooperation which is a complete dead-end at this point. I'd love to see it do well but sadly that is a pipe-dream.
"He sospechado alguna vez que la única cosa sin misterio es la felicidad, porque se justifica por sí sola"-Jorge Luis Borges
 
DIJKKIJK
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:27 pm

MrGtheSheepA346 wrote:
The An-148 is a high-wing monoplane meaning the engines and wing structure are protected against foreign object damage. This configuration allows the An-148 to be used at poorly equipped airfields. Taking into account that 93 airports in India have unpaved runways, it surprises me that the Antonov AN148 so far didn't receive any orders from Indian Airlines. Capacity-wise there seems to be a market for this (type of) plane, since for example, Indigo operates 23 ATR72s. The Indian Air Force, though not a civilian airline, is also familiar with operating and using non-Western aircraft. When we add all this up, India seems to be a likely market for the An-148 and yet there are no An-148s operated by Indian Airlines, why is this?


Out of the 440 odd airports and airstrips in India, around a 100 receive regular commercial flights and all have paved runways. Even most of the IAF bases are paved. So there is no need for a dirt-strip capable aircraft.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
sibibom
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:49 pm

Well common man in India will not fly a non-western aircraft, let alone a Russian/Ukrainian one, especially when our Russian made fighter jets keeps falling off the skies on a monthly if not weekly basis(thankfully that phase seems to be ending soonish).

Even Embraer despite quite a decent and reliable aircraft hasn't found too many takers.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:51 pm

Easy one: ATR and de Havilland Canada have far better support networks. The Dash 8 appears to be the choice in India for really short airfields. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Spicejet picked up some more cheap Dash 8s.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:59 pm

You might get a good clue from looking at Cubana. They have the latest version, the An-158 and have had to park all 6 of them due to "technical issues". Outside of Russia and the Ukraine, I don't think the global support network for these aircraft (An-148/158) is up to the task to keep these planes operating.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Cubana
 
DIJKKIJK
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:05 am

sibibom wrote:
Well common man in India will not fly a non-western aircraft, let alone a Russian/Ukrainian one, especially when our Russian made fighter jets keeps falling off the skies on a monthly if not weekly basis(thankfully that phase seems to be ending soonish).

Even Embraer despite quite a decent and reliable aircraft hasn't found too many takers.


Most 'common men or women' cannot tell a DC-3 from an A380, and it's not just in India. Russian-built types have reliability and spare-support issues that make them less preferable.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
cha747
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:18 am

MrGtheSheepA346 wrote:
The An-148 is a high-wing monoplane meaning the engines and wing structure are protected against foreign object damage. This configuration allows the An-148 to be used at poorly equipped airfields. Taking into account that 93 airports in India have unpaved runways, it surprises me that the Antonov AN148 so far didn't receive any orders from Indian Airlines. Capacity-wise there seems to be a market for this (type of) plane, since for example, Indigo operates 23 ATR72s. The Indian Air Force, though not a civilian airline, is also familiar with operating and using non-Western aircraft. When we add all this up, India seems to be a likely market for the An-148 and yet there are no An-148s operated by Indian Airlines, why is this?


I think you're asking the wrong question. The question should be why is the AN148 not successful around the world? The answer to that question should answer the question above.

Also, the Indian consumer is more sophisticated than ever. I've never been in an AN-148 but it wasn't long ago that more rural airports in India were served by DC-3's that were literally held together with rubber bands as spares could not be sourced. The country has come a long way since then and Indian travelers, even in LCC's like Indigo, demand safety and comfort.
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
Canuck600
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:30 am

I know wikipedia stats need to be taken with a grain of salt but the page for the 148 shows that only 47 AN-148's have been built since 2004. In other words it hasn't been successful anywhere. The portion that talks about Cubana grounding its fleets lists a multitude of issues with the aircraft.
 
Flyingsottsman
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:16 am

When and what Indian civil airline ever flew Soviet/Russian made jets ever since I can remember before the multitude of airlines started flying in India, Air India was a Boeing airline with Airbuses in their fleet and when Indian Airlines were flying they were a mainly Airbus user, so what civil airline in India ever flew Soviet/Russian jets?
 
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Antaras
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:19 am

The An148 is basically successful in...nowhere. Except North Korea, I guess.
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Toinou
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:23 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
sibibom wrote:
Well common man in India will not fly a non-western aircraft, let alone a Russian/Ukrainian one, especially when our Russian made fighter jets keeps falling off the skies on a monthly if not weekly basis(thankfully that phase seems to be ending soonish).

Even Embraer despite quite a decent and reliable aircraft hasn't found too many takers.


Most 'common men or women' cannot tell a DC-3 from an A380, and it's not just in India. Russian-built types have reliability and spare-support issues that make them less preferable.

Probably they cannot but they can see informations about that on TV/newspapers/internet that would probably love to make some noise about "dangerous soviet planes" (their hypothetical words, not mine), producing very bad PR for the airline that would try such a move.
 
DIJKKIJK
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:24 am

cha747 wrote:

I think you're asking the wrong question. The question should be why is the AN148 not successful around the world? The answer to that question should answer the question above.

Also, the Indian consumer is more sophisticated than ever. I've never been in an AN-148 but it wasn't long ago that more rural airports in India were served by DC-3's that were literally held together with rubber bands as spares could not be sourced. The country has come a long way since then and Indian travelers, even in LCC's like Indigo, demand safety and comfort.


Don't know where you get your information from but that is completely untrue.

First off, DC-3s haven't flown passengers commercially in India since the late 1960s/early 1970s. And that is quite long ago. Second, the DC-3s of Indian Airlines were maintained quite well and spares weren't a problem at all. In fact, DC-3 spares aren't an issue even today. With more than 10,000 planes having been built during WWII, DC-3 spares are still quite plentiful. The Indian customers too, at least the ones who could afford to fly, have always been very discerning. The only problem was that back then, they did not have much choice in the domestic sectors where Indian Airlines held a monopoly.

As for maintenance, I wouldn't be surprised if the standards of the likes of IndiGo are actually a lot worse than what Indian Airlines was in its heyday. With commercial pressures ruling the industry now, most operators are cutting corners. IndiGo doesn't even do any major maintenance for its planes in India, a matter of shame for an airline that boasts of nearly 200 planes.

Coming back to the AN-148, no airline in India has ever operated Soviet designs, and there is no need for them to do so now with enough western models available.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
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Re: Why is the AN148 not successful in India?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:41 pm

Canuck600 wrote:
I know wikipedia stats need to be taken with a grain of salt but the page for the 148 shows that only 47 AN-148's have been built since 2004. In other words it hasn't been successful anywhere. The portion that talks about Cubana grounding its fleets lists a multitude of issues with the aircraft.


Typical problem of post-Soviet aircraft - maintenance and spares. Also, AN148 is a 1980s design, which doesn't go well in 2020. Then, I have read mentions (don't recall where) that engines lifespan is too short - Soviet engines weren't that great even for their time.

Long story short - by now, R.I.P.

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