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TYWoolman
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Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:22 pm

Is this a component to the regaining of consumer confidence? Perhaps a long-term investment for greater health/illness management in places with large amounts of people? Should this be considered in the context of aviation having greater responsibility on a global scale, not just a corporate-local scale, to defend against wide-spread illness all the way down to the common-cold?

Not sure what I am really proposing here. But I do know that more health awareness will be borne from this and will necessitate all industries to think not only in-house but with a collective purpose for the greater good.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:15 pm

Don't many airports have a first aid station staffed with a nurse?
 
7673mech
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:21 pm

Nurse qualified flight attendants- is that not returning to the past?

I agree that greater health awareness needs to come into focus, but I suspect in 18 months and beyond as things come back to life when a vaccine is readily available, it will be business as usual until the next pandemic.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:23 pm

why stop there why not have a flight attendant doctor onboard as well. ( sarcasm)
 
Canuck600
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:26 pm

I highly doubt that airlines would be willing to pay nurse salaries for flight attendants
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:31 pm

Nursing (RN) is a Bachelor's level degree (four years of post-secondary education). A typical starting salary for an RN in the US is $70-100k/yr. The average RN in California makes $113K according to nurse.org. Nurses are highly-trained medical professionals. When I compare that to the starting salary of a flight attendant of $38k according to money.com and the amount of training required (about 12 weeks, right?), this doesn't seem like a financially sensible plan.

I do seem to recall hearing that stewardesses (word chosen deliberately) had to be nurses back in the early days of commercial aviation (1930s-1950s).
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:37 pm

Don't stop at flight attendants, make a pilot also be a nurse to save money.
 
TW870
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:58 pm

I do not understand this phenomenon where some people are thinking that COVID is going to be permanent, and that somehow everyone is going to be on lockdown and terrified of flying forever. Eventually, either there will be a vaccine/prophylaxis, or people will either get it and become immune or die. That is how coronavirus and flu pandemics work.

These bizarre ideas that we are going to reconfigure airplanes with glass shields between passengers, or that we are going to have flight attendants that can intubate dying COVID passengers while delivering cocktails is just bananas.

Yes, the next 18 months is going to be miserable. But there is absolutely no incentive to create some bizarre, dystopian airline industry because of it.
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:59 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Nursing (RN) is a Bachelor's level degree (four years of post-secondary education). A typical starting salary for an RN in the US is $70-100k/yr. The average RN in California makes $113K according to nurse.org. Nurses are highly-trained medical professionals. When I compare that to the starting salary of a flight attendant of $38k according to money.com and the amount of training required (about 12 weeks, right?), this doesn't seem like a financially sensible plan.

I do seem to recall hearing that stewardesses (word chosen deliberately) had to be nurses back in the early days of commercial aviation (1930s-1950s).


Registered Nurse’s are not necessarily a Bachelor’s level degree. Many registered nurses have an associates degree. Same license, same scope of practice, different educational degree.

The average salary of a new RN is $66,000. Some statistics include advanced practice registered nurse’s in their numbers, which would result in a higher average pay.

There are many flight attendants that also work as nurses, paramedics, EMT’s, etc., etc., etc. I am a registered nurse and commercial flight attendant.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:07 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
Registered Nurse’s are not necessarily a Bachelor’s level degree. Many registered nurses have an associates degree. Same license, same scope of practice, different educational degree.


I think you're thinking of a Licensed Vocational Nurse or LVN.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
codc10
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:16 pm

What's the point? "Illness management" in flight shouldn't be a thing... if there's an emergency, appropriate protocols to handle medical distress already exist and work reasonably well. If a passenger is infected with COVID-19 or any other readily-communicable illness, they shouldn't be traveling. Special medevac/medical air transport arrangements are available too.

I don't see how having a nurse-FA on board moves the needle for anything.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:47 pm

TW870 wrote:
I do not understand this phenomenon where some people are thinking that COVID is going to be permanent, and that somehow everyone is going to be on lockdown and terrified of flying forever. Eventually, either there will be a vaccine/prophylaxis, or people will either get it and become immune or die. That is how coronavirus and flu pandemics work.

These bizarre ideas that we are going to reconfigure airplanes with glass shields between passengers, or that we are going to have flight attendants that can intubate dying COVID passengers while delivering cocktails is just bananas.

Yes, the next 18 months is going to be miserable. But there is absolutely no incentive to create some bizarre, dystopian airline industry because of it.


I agree and hope so. I just think that industries that move large quantaties of people should have something in-place for detection of illness. Not sure what that "something" is. Perhaps Artificial Intelligence will help.
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:14 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Registered Nurse’s are not necessarily a Bachelor’s level degree. Many registered nurses have an associates degree. Same license, same scope of practice, different educational degree.


I think you're thinking of a Licensed Vocational Nurse or LVN.


I’m not thinking of anything. I know. I am a Registered Nurse. There are many Registered Nurses (RN) that are associates degree prepared RN’s. I’d suggest a simple google search to learn more about the profession.

An LVN/LPN, depending on the state that you’re in, is a certificate/non-degree diploma program and doesn’t require a degree for sitting for the exam.

An LVN’s primary role is focused on performing duties/technical skills; whereas, an RN includes assessment, planning, management, high-risk medications, etc.

Some hospitals and health-care facilities require their nurses to be BSN prepared, but it is not a requirement to have a bachelor’s degree to be a Registered Nurse. The United States had a goal of having at least 80% of RN’s be BSN prepared by 2020. That failed. But there are hundreds of RN-to-BSN education programs to bridge from being an Associate’s degree prepared nurse to a Bachelor’s degree prepared nurse.
 
panam330
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:42 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Nursing (RN) is a Bachelor's level degree (four years of post-secondary education). A typical starting salary for an RN in the US is $70-100k/yr. The average RN in California makes $113K according to nurse.org. Nurses are highly-trained medical professionals. When I compare that to the starting salary of a flight attendant of $38k according to money.com and the amount of training required (about 12 weeks, right?), this doesn't seem like a financially sensible plan.

I do seem to recall hearing that stewardesses (word chosen deliberately) had to be nurses back in the early days of commercial aviation (1930s-1950s).

Most other states aren't fortunate enough to have California's nursing union and its associated higher incomes - according to Glassdoor and LinkedIn, starting base salaries for RNs are in the mid-$50k range in large swaths of the US. Additionally, as pointed out prior, RNs do not need a Bachelors; many can and do have Associates degrees.
On the FA side of things, training is about 5 weeks and generally isn't paid. $38k is a bit high starting salary for an FA. Regional FAs start around $21/flight hour; even WN starts at only $25/flight hour - with guarantees only in the 70s per month - barely hitting $25k including their per diem without flying a bunch of premium flying or picking up extra trips on their days off.

While I'm not disagreeing with you in principle, the stark difference in numbers isn't as dire elsewhere as it is in California.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:48 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
Registered Nurse’s are not necessarily a Bachelor’s level degree. Many registered nurses have an associates degree. Same license, same scope of practice, different educational degree.


I think you're thinking of a Licensed Vocational Nurse or LVN.

I haven't heard of an LVN (possibly varies by state?), but LPN is fairly widely used and is generally a six month program. RN is typically a two year AA program (there are also 18-24 month paramedic to RN bridge programs), and a BSN is a four year degree.
 
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B727skyguy
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:08 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Nursing (RN) is a Bachelor's level degree (four years of post-secondary education). A typical starting salary for an RN in the US is $70-100k/yr. The average RN in California makes $113K according to nurse.org. Nurses are highly-trained medical professionals. When I compare that to the starting salary of a flight attendant of $38k according to money.com and the amount of training required (about 12 weeks, right?), this doesn't seem like a financially sensible plan.

I do seem to recall hearing that stewardesses (word chosen deliberately) had to be nurses back in the early days of commercial aviation (1930s-1950s).


Registered Nurse’s are not necessarily a Bachelor’s level degree. Many registered nurses have an associates degree. Same license, same scope of practice, different educational degree.

The average salary of a new RN is $66,000. Some statistics include advanced practice registered nurse’s in their numbers, which would result in a higher average pay.

There are many flight attendants that also work as nurses, paramedics, EMT’s, etc., etc., etc. I am a registered nurse and commercial flight attendant.


Back in the 1950s, "stewardesses" were required to be female, single, and a registered nurse. My mother said that was the main reason why she went to nursing school. She never went to college.

My local technical college offers an RN program. Graduates from their Associate's Degree program are Registered Nurses. As far as salaries, their website states: Average wage reported by graduates within six months: $28.78/hr.
(source: https://madisoncollege.edu/areas-of-stu ... h-sciences)
 
strfyr51
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:52 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Don't many airports have a first aid station staffed with a nurse?

Yes they do,
 
strfyr51
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:54 pm

B727skyguy wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Nursing (RN) is a Bachelor's level degree (four years of post-secondary education). A typical starting salary for an RN in the US is $70-100k/yr. The average RN in California makes $113K according to nurse.org. Nurses are highly-trained medical professionals. When I compare that to the starting salary of a flight attendant of $38k according to money.com and the amount of training required (about 12 weeks, right?), this doesn't seem like a financially sensible plan.

I do seem to recall hearing that stewardesses (word chosen deliberately) had to be nurses back in the early days of commercial aviation (1930s-1950s).


Registered Nurse’s are not necessarily a Bachelor’s level degree. Many registered nurses have an associates degree. Same license, same scope of practice, different educational degree.

The average salary of a new RN is $66,000. Some statistics include advanced practice registered nurse’s in their numbers, which would result in a higher average pay.

There are many flight attendants that also work as nurses, paramedics, EMT’s, etc., etc., etc. I am a registered nurse and commercial flight attendant.


Back in the 1950s, "stewardesses" were required to be female, single, and a registered nurse. My mother said that was the main reason why she went to nursing school. She never went to college.

My local technical college offers an RN program. Graduates from their Associate's Degree program are Registered Nurses. As far as salaries, their website states: Average wage reported by graduates within six months: $28.78/hr.
(source: https://madisoncollege.edu/areas-of-stu ... h-sciences)

In this day and age? Nurses LPN or RN's would be taking a downgrade in Pay to become flight attendants.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:58 am

Canuck600 wrote:
I highly doubt that airlines would be willing to pay nurse salaries for flight attendants


Not only that but it's unlikely airlines would want the potential liability that comes with an airline-employed nurse providing any diagnoses, treatment, or advice.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:27 am

This would be a huge waste and something not necessary in-flight.

The bigger question is that are we likely to see increased health screening at
a) security screening checkpoints
b) immigration arrival checkpoints

In-flight doesn't many any sense, particularly based on duration of said flights.
The locations listed above are basically choke-points/gateways that people must pass through and the question is are we going to have health-theater (like security theater) procedures implemented to give perception that we are doing things to protect people's safety that are of limited or no value?

Who knows.

Probably more rigorous enforcement of "if you are sick stay home" or "if you are really sick please don't fly".
We've all seen or been around those people who are coughing / hacking / sneezing that look like crap and really shouldn't be traveling.
 
addi375
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:50 am

F/A here. I know a lot of my fellow coworkers including myself who are nurses, EMT/Paramedics and yes even a doctor. The flexibility of this job allows us to be multi qualified.
Walmart prices with Bloomies service...........
 
mga707
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:32 am

If you 'youngsters' have never heard the name Ellen Church, look her up...
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:22 pm

Nurse training and certification may vary from state to state. Here in Washington State there is a progression available to any ambitious person interested in going from certified nursing aid (likely to work in a nursing home) to Licensed Practical Nurse, to RN with an associate degree, to a four year professional degree, and then Nurse Practitioner. EMTs and Midwifes progress along a separate track, to my mind they should be absorbed into the nursing program. A well trained EMT tend to be poorly paid ($40K), but their training and experience would be useful in flight. No one has agreed with me, but I still think that airlines should offer special fares to trained law enforcement officers and trained EMTs and nurses, both need specific training for aviation service, and the special fares on specific flights - i.e., one each per flight. It could be as cheap as fee upgrades, early seating privileges etc
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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OA940
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:01 pm

Why? Illness in flight is pretty rare, and if you're referring to a COVID type of situation it would be extremely pointless. As for medical emergencies, correct me if I'm wrong but I think FAs receive some basic training to help people for the short time until they make an emergency landing
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tb727
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:18 pm

OA940 wrote:
Why? Illness in flight is pretty rare, and if you're referring to a COVID type of situation it would be extremely pointless. As for medical emergencies, correct me if I'm wrong but I think FAs receive some basic training to help people for the short time until they make an emergency landing


This is what is true in my experiences. There is a medical kit on board that contains a variety of items needed for care. We have a procedure in place for when medical attention is required. The FA's have a form to fill out with pax info and vitals, we in turn use a radio patch to call a company that assumes all responsibility and they advise on what to do, usually just continue care and go on to our destination. There is almost always an EMT, RN or Doctor traveling with us(yes they all fly on NK :shock: :roll: )and Medlink even covers the care they give on board unless they are grossly negligent.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
ClemRD
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:41 pm

Once upon a time I had some first aid training, and used to teach some of the courses for the American Red Cross. I have been asked to help out in a few in-flight medical emergencies.
In the US, airlines subscribe to emergency medical services that provide guidance over the radio as needed. They also have advisors help determine what medical materials are appropriate to provide on board aircraft, but there are no national standards from government, AMA, etc on what gear to carry.
I did read somewhere once about the FAA wanting AEDs on commercial aircraft and those are simple to use.
An automated blood pressure device and pulse ox meter would have been helpful during my last emergency.
Mostly what's carried in the drug box are medications that people might need but forgot to bring with them.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:36 pm

I am thinking more in the lines of airlines and airports being an excellent opportunity (and responsibility) for global illness detection/monitoring with the ebb and flow of transborder traffic patterns. This wouldn't be the responsibility of individual airlines per se, but cooperation would be needed by them.

For example, check-in infrared temperature monitoring could be collected for each passenger and databases cross referenced with any known destination or origin hotspot zones. Not sure what could be done with that info due to privacy rights etc... but this info can be useful to monitor potential novel pandemic transmission, at least in a retrospective way, and can be useful in implementing mitigation and combat strategies.
 
floridaflyboy
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Re: Nurse-Qualified Flight Attendants/Airport Terminal Nursing Stations: The Future?

Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:13 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
Don't many airports have a first aid station staffed with a nurse?

Yes they do,


As someone who was diagnosed in my late 20s, while an airline employee, with a very sudden and somewhat severe case of epilepsy, I can say, airports have incredible medical capabilities.

On 4 occasions, I had sudden seizures in airports or while traveling (1 on an airplane on approach into ATL and 3 on the ground; 1 traveling through MSP and 2 working at IND), and airport medical staff were ready, competent and compassionate.

I understand a neurological disorder and a virus are different. Just thought I'd toss that out there to illustrate that there are certainly trained, professional medical staff at airports.
Good goes around!

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