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eta unknown
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Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:01 am

Out of curiosity, does anyone know why a Mahan Air A346 (EP-MMF) flew from Tehran to Las Piedras return (Venezuela) this week?

Prior to departing IKA the aircraft has arrived from Chengdu and then went back there after Tehran, so presumably medical supplies, but why Las Piedras instead of Caracas?
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:16 pm

As well known, Mahan are Govt /IIRG owned /Sponsored...
Iran and Venezuela are very pally in terms of arms trading and all sorts of misdemeanours.

Is LSP also a military field..?

This route Iran-Venezuela has been flown by a few operators in the past..
Iran Air 74L, Conviasa 342, Mahan .?
Believe they also stopped in DAM as well, just for good measure of loony Govts.
 
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:30 pm

Yes the normal route is IKA-CCS, but the question is about why Las Piedras instead of CCS. We don't need to delve into sidebars about the politics of the usual IKA-CCS route.
 
LMFNINJA
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:00 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
As well known, Mahan are Govt /IIRG owned /Sponsored...
Iran and Venezuela are very pally in terms of arms trading and all sorts of misdemeanours.

Is LSP also a military field..?

This route Iran-Venezuela has been flown by a few operators in the past..
Iran Air 74L, Conviasa 342, Mahan .?
Believe they also stopped in DAM as well, just for good measure of loony Govts.


Agree 100%. Medical supplies being flown in along with a few "accessories" like guns, rockets, ammunition etc.
 
bennett123
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:26 pm

 
seansasLCY
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:24 pm

According to Twitter and Bloomberg, Mahan Air is ferrying supplies to restore an oil refinery back to working condition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... CugZOTNAg7
 
migair54
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:48 am

16 charter flights are planned for the same route, in the future days and weeks. only 2 of them already happend so far.
 
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:20 am

seansasLCY wrote:
According to Twitter and Bloomberg, Mahan Air is ferrying supplies to restore an oil refinery back to working condition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... CugZOTNAg7


Great- thanks for the answer!
 
dcajet
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:31 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
According to Twitter and Bloomberg, Mahan Air is ferrying supplies to restore an oil refinery back to working condition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... CugZOTNAg7


While the above seems to be true (Venezuela's oil industry has been virtually destroyed; China and Russia won't help and Iran is the only country that can and is willing to help. Venezuela has acute shortages of gasoline and has gone from having the cheapest gas on earth to the most expensive one), it is also rather naive to think that oil refinery supplies are just the only thing being transported. I'd focus on what the planes are carrying back to Iran.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:35 am

dcajet wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
According to Twitter and Bloomberg, Mahan Air is ferrying supplies to restore an oil refinery back to working condition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... CugZOTNAg7


While the above seems to be true (Venezuela's oil industry has been virtually destroyed; China and Russia won't help and Iran is the only country that can and is willing to help. Venezuela has acute shortages of gasoline and has gone from having the cheapest gas on earth to the most expensive one), it is also rather naive to think that oil refinery supplies are just the only thing being transported. I'd focus on what the planes are carrying back to Iran.


I think Iran is uniquely interested in giving the US the finger in that country. A well behaved Venezuela is a well rewarded Venezuela. I would venture to say the planes bring many needed & wanted items. I agree the return "cargo" is likely the more interesting of the two directions. I'm guessing a good flow of gold, hard currency & the few passengers of distinction that use this flight to funnel cash in & out of the respective countries (mostly hard currencies, if I'd venture to guess). Other easily tradeable items, like gems, bearer bonds & but mostly it's cash, cash & more cash. The cargo holds likely laiden with a myriad of high end consumer goods.
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dabc
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:19 am

Is this route the longest for an A346, more than 14h?
 
TC957
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:51 am

dabc wrote:
Is this route the longest for an A346, more than 14h?

Don't think so, SA flew theirs on the JNB- JFK route for years and LH have operated nonstop MUC - HNL cruise ship charters before.
 
dabc
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:10 am

Since yesterday, IKA-LSP moved to IKA-ALG-LSP, technical stop in Algiers
Return flight LSP-IKA is still direct
 
IWMBH
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:01 am

I don't know of this was already mentioned.

''Pompeo urges end to overflight rights for Iran airline flying to Venezuela''
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN22B2OI

Any ideas which countries might be willing to comply to this request?
 
Toinou
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:25 am

Isn't that against Chicago convention? (Which was signed by almost every states on this route?)
 
raylee67
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:07 pm

IWMBH wrote:
I don't know of this was already mentioned.

''Pompeo urges end to overflight rights for Iran airline flying to Venezuela''
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN22B2OI

Any ideas which countries might be willing to comply to this request?


From the Mediterranean coast of Syria, the flight would be able to fly over international airspace all the way to the Caribbean coast of Venezuela (by circumnavigating south of Cyprus, Sicily and Malta to fly solely over international waters of the Med Sea and cross into the Atlantic over the Strait of Gibraltar). The distance will be longer, but it's possible, no? If they need a refueling stop, they can do it at Latakia. Between Latakia and Iranian airspace, all they need to do is to cross over Iraqi and Syrian airspace. I doubt Iraq will ban Iranian aircraft over its airspace, and certainly not Syria.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:21 pm

raylee67 wrote:
From the Mediterranean coast of Syria, the flight would be able to fly over international airspace all the way to the Caribbean coast of Venezuela (by circumnavigating south of Cyprus, Sicily and Malta to fly solely over international waters of the Med Sea and cross into the Atlantic over the Strait of Gibraltar). The distance will be longer, but it's possible, no? If they need a refueling stop, they can do it at Latakia. Between Latakia and Iranian airspace, all they need to do is to cross over Iraqi and Syrian airspace. I doubt Iraq will ban Iranian aircraft over its airspace, and certainly not Syria.


Even flying over the Mediterranean doesn't appear to be that much longer. I wonder it these flights will now have their transponders turned off.
 
IWMBH
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:52 pm

eta unknown wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
From the Mediterranean coast of Syria, the flight would be able to fly over international airspace all the way to the Caribbean coast of Venezuela (by circumnavigating south of Cyprus, Sicily and Malta to fly solely over international waters of the Med Sea and cross into the Atlantic over the Strait of Gibraltar). The distance will be longer, but it's possible, no? If they need a refueling stop, they can do it at Latakia. Between Latakia and Iranian airspace, all they need to do is to cross over Iraqi and Syrian airspace. I doubt Iraq will ban Iranian aircraft over its airspace, and certainly not Syria.


Even flying over the Mediterranean doesn't appear to be that much longer. I wonder it these flights will now have their transponders turned off.


I don't think you can traverse the Mediterranean without crossing into some countries airspace.
If the EU and some African countries pick up on this they're basically screwed.
 
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:26 pm

Paint one A346 all white (or Conviasa) and re-register it in Venezuela for a few weeks.
 
raylee67
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 6:04 am

IWMBH wrote:

I don't think you can traverse the Mediterranean without crossing into some countries airspace.
If the EU and some African countries pick up on this they're basically screwed.


You can. Note that sovereign airspace is only 12nm from the coastline. The Exclusive Economic Zone (which is 200nm from coastline) applies only for economic interests, i.e. fish and oil wthin the EEZ is exclusive for the country at most 200nm from its coast, but the sea and the airspace is free for anyone to pass through in the EEZ.

On https://www.openstreetmap.org/ you can see the boundary of the sovereign airspace/territorial sea. There are plenty of international airspace over the Med Sea. The only problem is that the Moroccan airspace actual borders the Spanish airspace directly over the Strait of Gibraltar.
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migair54
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 8:20 am

raylee67 wrote:
IWMBH wrote:

I don't think you can traverse the Mediterranean without crossing into some countries airspace.
If the EU and some African countries pick up on this they're basically screwed.


You can. Note that sovereign airspace is only 12nm from the coastline. The Exclusive Economic Zone (which is 200nm from coastline) applies only for economic interests, i.e. fish and oil wthin the EEZ is exclusive for the country at most 200nm from its coast, but the sea and the airspace is free for anyone to pass through in the EEZ.

On https://www.openstreetmap.org/ you can see the boundary of the sovereign airspace/territorial sea. There are plenty of international airspace over the Med Sea. The only problem is that the Moroccan airspace actual borders the Spanish airspace directly over the Strait of Gibraltar.

The spanish part is not a problem since our beloved leaders are more than happy helping Venezuela, not long ago one minister had a meeting in MAD with her counterpart in Venezuela, as soon as she set foot in Spain she should have been detained, however she was not and she introduce many bags in Spain avoiding customs thanks to the meeting.

I guess Mahan Air are doing more or less like El Al when they fly over the red sea, just fly between the countries an in international free airspace.

eta unknown wrote:
Even flying over the Mediterranean doesn't appear to be that much longer. I wonder it these flights will now have their transponders turned off.

No, they can't, in that case they will not be allowed by over the Mediterranean, they , and that could be dangerous, anyway It's not like a secret CIA flight, at least not anymore, so what's the point to Off the transponder.
 
Toinou
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 9:28 am

If I'm not wrong, the "International Air Transport Agreement" grants first freedom (ie right to overfly another country) between all its signatories, and this includes all states implicated in this discussion.
So the move asked by US government would be a breach in one of the most fundamental aspects of air transport regulation.

They might try to circle that aspect by pretending that these flights are not civilian one but from what I understand of the rules it may be tricky as even transporting weapons does not allow to make a flight "non-civilian".
 
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 9:33 am

Well there's 2 more in the air right now: one just took off from ALG and the other is heading back to IKA.
 
IWMBH
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 9:36 am

Toinou wrote:
If I'm not wrong, the "International Air Transport Agreement" grants first freedom (ie right to overfly another country) between all its signatories, and this includes all states implicated in this discussion.
So the move asked by US government would be a breach in one of the most fundamental aspects of air transport regulation.

They might try to circle that aspect by pretending that these flights are not civilian one but from what I understand of the rules it may be tricky as even transporting weapons does not allow to make a flight "non-civilian".


The EU has been blocking certain airlines from crossing into their airspace for years.
And before you say ''but thats for safety reasons'' how about SAA during the apartheid?
Or the Russians that use airspace for political reasons, see the video below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdNDYBt9e_U&t=2s
 
Toinou
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 10:02 am

Russia is not a good example as it hasn't signed the agreement I mentioned.

The case of South Africa is more interesting. I think that European countries (not EU that did not exist at that time) may have restricted right to land (even though, I can't really find a list), which is perfectly authorized. I can't see any European country banning SAA from overflying (on what I may be wrong). Many African countries did so, I have no idea how they put it. Maybe by the fact that they did not recognize then South African government and that, as an effect, they couldn't allow the planes.
Trek airways flights used the fact the aircraft(s) is (were) registered in Luxembourg to avoid African restrictions and take a more direct route.
 
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 10:25 am

IWMBH wrote:
Toinou wrote:
And before you say ''but thats for safety reasons'' how about SAA during the apartheid?


I was unaware of any European country doing this. IIRC SAA had an extensive European network at the time and plenty of European carriers operated to JNB:

http://www.departedflights.com/JNB89intro.html
 
IWMBH
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 10:38 am

eta unknown wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
Toinou wrote:
And before you say ''but thats for safety reasons'' how about SAA during the apartheid?


I was unaware of any European country doing this. IIRC SAA had an extensive European network at the time and plenty of European carriers operated to JNB:

http://www.departedflights.com/JNB89intro.html


But SAA had to fly around the African countries during the apartheid.
 
Toinou
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 10:50 am

IWMBH wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
IWMBH wrote:


I was unaware of any European country doing this. IIRC SAA had an extensive European network at the time and plenty of European carriers operated to JNB:

http://www.departedflights.com/JNB89intro.html


But SAA had to fly around the African countries during the apartheid.

As I said, probably on the ground of not recognizing the government.
You were talking about European countries banning overflight. Can you mention some (if possible with strong evidences)?
 
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 10:52 am

IWMBH wrote:
[
But SAA had to fly around the African countries during the apartheid.


Correct- because African countries would not permit overflight. You said it was because of Europe.
 
IWMBH
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 11:07 am

eta unknown wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
[
But SAA had to fly around the African countries during the apartheid.


Correct- because African countries would not permit overflight. You said it was because of Europe.


I meant to say that the EU blocks certain airlines from crossing their airspace because of safety concerns.
And SAA was blocked from flying over some African countries well after the Act was signed.

What I was trying to say is that there where many examples of countries that don't allow certain airlines to cross over their country.
It is not just the US.
 
Toinou
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 11:42 am

IWMBH wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
[
But SAA had to fly around the African countries during the apartheid.


Correct- because African countries would not permit overflight. You said it was because of Europe.


I meant to say that the EU blocks certain airlines from crossing their airspace because of safety concerns.
And SAA was blocked from flying over some African countries well after the Act was signed.

What I was trying to say is that there where many examples of countries that don't allow certain airlines to cross over their country.
It is not just the US.

In this case, the US are trying to make other countries ban an airline,
 
dabc
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 11:42 am

During apartheid, South Africa was banned from African Union and most of African countries suspended diplomatic relations with this country
SAA was banned from overflying most of African countries
 
IWMBH
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Fri May 01, 2020 12:49 pm

Toinou wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
eta unknown wrote:

Correct- because African countries would not permit overflight. You said it was because of Europe.


I meant to say that the EU blocks certain airlines from crossing their airspace because of safety concerns.
And SAA was blocked from flying over some African countries well after the Act was signed.

What I was trying to say is that there where many examples of countries that don't allow certain airlines to cross over their country.
It is not just the US.

In this case, the US are trying to make other countries ban an airline,


They're not making other countries ban Mahan, they're asking countries to ban an airline that is supporting a regime most of the world has already condemned.
 
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gioannis13
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sat May 02, 2020 8:55 am

EP-MMR https://www.flightradar24.com/IRM125/246f6ee8 JUST NOW OVER Greece to Bulgaria enroute to Tehran and EP-MMF Take off from Algier to Uknown destination but with Western direction............
SeaSunSex...........
 
factsonly
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sun May 03, 2020 7:34 am

May 3rd 2020: MAHAN operating back to Tehran:

- W5127 LAS PIEDRAS 18.28 - IKA 16.03 Airbus A340-642 EP-MMF

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ep-mmf

Outbound flights IKA-LSP divert (re-fuel) at ALG at times.
 
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sun May 03, 2020 7:41 am

This is about the third flight to divert to ALG. Safe to say no country is going to place an overflight ban.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sun May 03, 2020 8:30 am

eta unknown wrote:
This is about the third flight to divert to ALG. Safe to say no country is going to place an overflight ban.

I don’t think Algiers is a diversion, it’s a scheduled tech stop.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
dabc
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sun May 03, 2020 10:28 am

ALG is a re-fuel tech stop for the outbound IKA-LSP flight

Image
 
Diverskii
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Re: Mahan Air: IKA-LSP

Sun May 03, 2020 11:30 am

Any -600 drivers think of a likely reason for a tech stop in ALG?

IKA-LSP well within 7000nm. Just how strong are those westbound winds? Or maybe its the weight of the cargo...

The 600 is known to perform well at those kind of westbound ranges out of JNB for example.

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