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DFW17L
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:29 pm

afcjets wrote:
It appears CLT is now AA's largest hub with way more flights than DFW. I wonder why that is and how long it will continue?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1445147


Could it be a strategy by AA that focuses on where passenger strength (anemic as it is) in the US is expected to be, and at the same time, compete with ATL? Talk amongst yourselves.

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Brickell305
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:30 pm

afcjets wrote:
It appears CLT is now AA's largest hub with way more flights than DFW. I wonder why that is and how long it will continue?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1445147

CLT is a lot less international so would have been less affected by cuts to Asia, South America, Central America, Europe, Mexico, etc. Also, CLT is geographically closer to a lot of stations in the south so it’s more likely to be cheaper to keep the minimum flight requirements by serving them through CLT.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8082
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:40 pm

Can we throw hub / city envy or fanboyism out the window in this environment?

The reality is that everyone is trying to maintain minimal levels of flying while perserving destinations served. In many cases that means flying to the closest geographically located hub and / or reducing stage lengths of operating flights and thus reducing costs.

It’s not about competition at this time.
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10256
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:41 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Thanks as always!

enilria wrote:
MF LAX-XMN MAY 0.3>1.2[0.5]

TP BOS-LIS JUL 1.0>1.7[1.0]
TP EWR-LIS JUL 2>3[1.0]
TP LIS-MIA JUL 1.5>3[1.0]


Seriously? Pretty drastic increases compared to last year. Are cargo-only flights registered in the OAG?

Thanks
They are not supposed to be.
mxaxai wrote:
Wow.
Is your database able to show the flights that are flown? In particular TATL would be interesting, I would guess that the list of cancelled routes next month is longer than the list of flown routes.

On May1 ,the following transatlantic flights are still scheduled:

AA DFW-LHR
AA MIA-LHR
AZ JFK-FCO
BA BOS-LHR
BA IAD-LHR
BA JFK-LHR
BA LAX-LHR
BA ORD-LHR
DE PDX-FRA
DL ATL-AMS
DL ATL-CDG
DL DTW-AMS
EI BOS-DUB
EI JFK-DUB
EI ORD-DUB
FI BOS-KEF
FI DEN-KEF
FI EWR-KEF
FI IAD-KEF
FI JFK-KEF
FI MCO-KEF
FI MSP-KEF
FI ORD-KEF
FI SEA-KEF
KL ATL-AMS
KL JFK-AMS
KL ORD-AMS
LH EWR-FRA
LO EWR-WAW
LO JFK-BUD
LO JFK-WAW
LO LAX-WAW
LO MIA-WAW
LO ORD-WAW
LX EWR-ZRH
TN LAX-CDG
TOM SFB-MAN
UA EWR-FRA
UA EWR-LHR
VS JFK-LHR
VS LAX-LHR

Delta has no Europe service from anywhere except DTW/ATL. UA has no IAD service. FI isn't really operating are they? You can't get to Europe from the almost the whole East Coast on AA.
hiflyeras wrote:
And this will all change a week from now. Hell, it might have changed since it was posted here mere hours ago. I'm sure it's a big job every week...I know we all appreciate it...but Enrilia do you wonder sometimes if it's a waste of time right now?

Well it's all steps in the same direction. We need to see the steps to monitor if there is any end to this.
tphuang wrote:
I'm still a little surprised NK decided to take the money.

Thanks. Me too. I think from a shareholder liability perspective it is easier to go with the pack.
Planeboy17 wrote:
Thank you again enilria.
Does anyone know why EI seems so optimistic? They seem to be flying to all of their destinations, with a reduced schedule of course, but still it seems surprising to see even BDL and MSP loaded.
Also, I read that EK will not resume any scheduled flying until July 1st now so I think what’s loaded today will be removed next week.

What about FI!
TW870 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
You work so hard on this thread

It is always enjoyable...thank you

During these times I don’t know if it’s relevant anymore.

There are so many changes, most temporary, some not, that trying to have a discussion on route planning and weekly changes almost seems like spitting into the wind.

Again, I appreciate the work and I’m not knocking it in any way...But I wonder the relevance at this point


I think it is highly relevant for two reasons:

1. Historical: people are going to research and write about this event for literally the next century. This is a tremendous quick reference to see how a core industry responded to the worst black swan it has faced. I write about industry and crisis for a living, and believe me, things like this thread are hugely useful as a historical artifact.
2. Practical: many of us work jobs where we commute for a living, and sometimes on multiple markets out of multiple airports depending on the nature of our seasonal work. I and many others use this thread to keep tabs on service to all of our commuter airports. Right now, we are trying to figure out how and when we will be able to begin to actually operate our working lives again. This thread is one of many resources people use to evaluate our options - because all of the info is here with one click.

On a more detailed note, enilria and others, how are you reading the way Delta loaded the transatlantic cuts? For the routes that zero out through January such as AMS-TPA/MCO and JFK-LOS, am I right to read those as dropped routes - at least for now? It looks like the axed all the summer seasonal flying, which is to be expected. But I am trying to figure out where they are signaling long term cuts. LOS is likely to be a tougher market both because of the oil price collapse and the US immigration restrictions - and thus I assume they are pulling the plug on the JFK market?

Those routes are gone. They may or may not come back next year. I think they were all "fringe" performance and are first to go.
Chuska wrote:
Enilria: Despite what some have said about if this thread is worthwhile any more, please keep it coming! Yes its been pretty dramatic the last few weeks and probably will continue for awhile as the big three have yet to hack their June and beyond schedules. I think the downward curve is now flattening and we're all beginning to understand what lies ahead. For me, I'm loving the tag-ons. Fill in those gaps that are without nonstop service and maintain the thin hub to spoke routes with one-stop service. They may not have much traffic but fuel is so cheap and the airlines have so many extra aircraft now, I believe it can be done.

Actually, traffic hit bottom nationally a week ago and has been going up slowly.
B6JFKH81 wrote:
Yikes, TPA is taking a bigger hit than I was expecting. Not good for my hometown airport

Here is the schedule for May1 this year vs the same day of week last year. Excludes markets unchanged, and markets with less than 4 departures last year.

ANI 9>0 -100%
BQN 9>0 -100%
HOM 5>0 -100%
ISN 6>0 -100%
KLG 4>0 -100%
KSM 5>0 -100%
LKE 10>0 -100%
LUK 4>0 -100%
NRR 4>0 -100%
RSH 5>0 -100%
LGA 578>44 -92%
EWR 589>51 -91%
HPN 42>4 -90%
BLI 9>1 -89%
TTN 9>1 -89%
ACY 8>1 -88%
JFK 608>86 -86%
SMK 6>1 -83%
UNK 12>2 -83%
WBB 6>1 -83%
LIH 38>7 -82%
HGR 5>1 -80%
KKA 5>1 -80%
PGA 5>1 -80%
GUM 34>7 -79%
SFO 609>126 -79%
JHM 24>5 -79%
PAE 24>5 -79%
MBS 9>2 -78%
SAF 9>2 -78%
LAX 890>216 -76%
IAH 644>157 -76%
KOA 73>18 -75%
ACV 4>1 -75%
BRO 8>2 -75%
CLE 160>40 -75%
CSG 4>1 -75%
MYR 40>10 -75%
PUW 4>1 -75%
RDD 4>1 -75%
RIW 4>1 -75%
SKK 4>1 -75%
TXK 4>1 -75%
WLK 4>1 -75%
WSN 4>1 -75%
MIA 440>111 -75%
BTV 31>8 -74%
JAN 27>7 -74%
OME 27>7 -74%
SBA 23>6 -74%
RDU 218>58 -73%
RIC 86>23 -73%
HNL 238>64 -73%
XNA 48>13 -73%
SGU 11>3 -73%
SWF 11>3 -73%
ATL 1284>355 -72%
LSE 7>2 -71%
OTZ 28>8 -71%
SNA 136>39 -71%
AGS 17>5 -71%
CVG 170>50 -71%
OGG 136>40 -71%
PSP 37>11 -70%
PDX 262>78 -70%
AEX 10>3 -70%
CWA 10>3 -70%
BTR 23>7 -70%
AZO 13>4 -69%
EUG 26>8 -69%
DTW 572>180 -69%
ITO 19>6 -68%
FLL 394>125 -68%
DCA 434>138 -68%
BZN 22>7 -68%
RDM 25>8 -68%
ORF 78>25 -68%
STT 53>17 -68%
BOS 579>186 -68%
MSP 531>173 -67%
MSN 49>16 -67%
SEA 599>198 -67%
DEC 6>2 -67%
DRO 12>4 -67%
FAY 12>4 -67%
GAM 6>2 -67%
GSO 57>19 -67%
IAD 345>115 -67%
LFT 15>5 -67%
MRY 15>5 -67%
SVA 6>2 -67%
ORD 1295>436 -66%
SYR 52>18 -65%
PWM 40>14 -65%
CRW 17>6 -65%
MFE 17>6 -65%
RAP 17>6 -65%
MCO 469>166 -65%
JAX 107>38 -64%
LGB 45>16 -64%
CMH 149>53 -64%
CPX 14>5 -64%
FNT 14>5 -64%
MGM 14>5 -64%
BHM 64>23 -64%
CHO 25>9 -64%
FAT 36>13 -64%
CAK 22>8 -64%
HSV 33>12 -64%
STS 11>4 -64%
TYS 66>24 -64%
MEM 93>34 -63%
CHA 30>11 -63%
ANC 95>35 -63%
MLI 19>7 -63%
BGR 16>6 -63%
BIS 16>6 -63%
ERI 8>3 -63%
EVV 16>6 -63%
EWN 8>3 -63%
GNV 16>6 -63%
HRL 16>6 -63%
SPN 8>3 -63%
BET 61>23 -62%
SJC 220>83 -62%
BDL 91>35 -62%
PHF 13>5 -62%
CHS 83>32 -61%
COS 31>12 -61%
SAN 294>115 -61%
AVL 33>13 -61%
RNO 71>28 -61%
ELP 58>23 -60%
AIA 5>2 -60%
BOI 70>28 -60%
DAB 10>4 -60%
FCA 10>4 -60%
FWA 20>8 -60%
GEG 60>24 -60%
MOB 20>8 -60%
OAJ 10>4 -60%
PSC 20>8 -60%
ROC 55>22 -60%
STX 40>16 -60%
TVC 15>6 -60%
YUM 5>2 -60%
PHL 524>210 -60%
LAS 550>222 -60%
SDF 89>36 -60%
LEX 37>15 -59%
ILM 27>11 -59%
BUF 87>36 -59%
SJU 164>68 -59%
DFW 1020>423 -59%
LAN 12>5 -58%
SLC 357>149 -58%
AMA 19>8 -58%
GRB 19>8 -58%
TUS 57>24 -58%
BFL 7>3 -57%
CPR 7>3 -57%
DAY 49>21 -57%
MLB 7>3 -57%
SCC 7>3 -57%
AUS 212>91 -57%
PBI 72>31 -57%
OMA 88>38 -57%
GJT 16>7 -56%
MSO 16>7 -56%
DSM 57>25 -56%
MFR 25>11 -56%
IND 159>70 -56%
ICT 34>15 -56%
GRR 61>27 -56%
BMI 9>4 -56%
ITH 9>4 -56%
TPA 234>104 -56%
BUR 92>41 -55%
PHX 537>240 -55%
PIT 183>82 -55%
SAV 58>26 -55%
ATW 20>9 -55%
PNS 42>19 -55%
CAE 33>15 -55%
LNK 11>5 -55%
SHV 22>10 -55%
TLH 22>10 -55%
SAT 129>59 -54%
MSY 177>81 -54%
OAK 169>78 -54%
MAF 28>13 -54%
TUL 58>27 -53%
SCE 15>7 -53%
MCI 167>78 -53%
AVP 17>8 -53%
ONT 68>32 -53%
GSP 59>28 -53%
PVD 59>28 -53%
LIT 44>21 -52%
FAR 23>11 -52%
LBB 23>11 -52%
CLT 760>364 -52%
ALB 50>24 -52%
DEN 871>426 -51%
SMF 167>82 -51%
OKC 75>37 -51%
ASE 8>4 -50%
BRW 10>5 -50%
CLL 6>3 -50%
DHN 4>2 -50%
EEK 6>3 -50%
ELM 8>4 -50%
FLG 8>4 -50%
FLO 4>2 -50%
FSM 6>3 -50%
GRK 10>5 -50%
HNM 4>2 -50%
IAG 4>2 -50%
IPL 8>4 -50%
JAC 6>3 -50%
KVL 4>2 -50%
LAW 4>2 -50%
MHK 6>3 -50%
MQT 4>2 -50%
MTJ 4>2 -50%
MTM 4>2 -50%
MUE 4>2 -50%
NUI 4>2 -50%
NUL 4>2 -50%
PGV 4>2 -50%
PHO 4>2 -50%
PIA 18>9 -50%
RBY 4>2 -50%
SPB 12>6 -50%
SSB 12>6 -50%
TOL 6>3 -50%
TYR 4>2 -50%
WTL 6>3 -50%
STL 255>129 -49%
RSW 79>40 -49%
MDT 33>17 -48%
BNA 259>135 -48%
MKE 107>56 -48%
ROA 21>11 -48%
MKK 49>26 -47%
ABQ 77>41 -47%
SBP 15>8 -47%
CID 28>15 -46%
BWI 342>184 -46%
GPT 13>7 -46%
COU 11>6 -45%
EYW 22>12 -45%
CRP 18>10 -44%
GTF 9>5 -44%
SIT 9>5 -44%
ABI 7>4 -43%
HLN 7>4 -43%
MOT 7>4 -43%
SBN 21>12 -43%
SCM 7>4 -43%
RST 12>7 -42%
TRI 12>7 -42%
SGF 32>19 -41%
ACT 5>3 -40%
ATT 5>3 -40%
CYF 5>3 -40%
GFK 5>3 -40%
HNH 5>3 -40%
HTS 5>3 -40%
KPN 5>3 -40%
KWK 5>3 -40%
MVY 5>3 -40%
OOK 5>3 -40%
ORH 5>3 -40%
SJT 5>3 -40%
TNK 5>3 -40%
VPS 25>15 -40%
VQS 10>6 -40%
ENA 23>14 -39%
FSD 23>14 -39%
MDW 264>161 -39%
JNU 36>22 -39%
DLH 8>5 -38%
IDA 8>5 -38%
MLU 8>5 -38%
HOU 186>119 -36%
MHT 31>20 -35%
ISP 17>11 -35%
ABE 20>13 -35%
DAL 212>138 -35%
FAI 46>30 -35%
CMI 9>6 -33%
GAL 12>8 -33%
KTN 18>12 -33%
LYH 6>4 -33%
SBY 6>4 -33%
ACK 20>14 -30%
ECP 20>14 -30%
BIL 28>20 -29%
LRD 7>5 -29%
AZA 16>12 -25%
GRI 4>3 -25%
HNS 4>3 -25%
KKH 4>3 -25%
KUK 4>3 -25%
KWN 4>3 -25%
NME 4>3 -25%
ROW 4>3 -25%
SGY 4>3 -25%
SUX 4>3 -25%
SVC 4>3 -25%
SRQ 25>19 -24%
ADQ 13>10 -23%
CDB 5>4 -20%
HHH 5>4 -20%
LNY 5>4 -20%
SFB 38>32 -16%
KLW 8>7 -13%
KOT 8>7 -13%
FYU 10>9 -10%
AUK 8>9 13%
PGD 18>22 22%
MCE 4>5 25%
USA 4>5 25%
AKN 7>9 29%
HYA 5>7 40%
DLG 14>21 50%

Weighted average is -62%
HardeesBiscuit wrote:
surprised there's not a big ** on G4
they seem to be stepping on the gas in May and re-starting many of the flights they had zeroed out...presumably CARES reasons? or do they have reason to think sometime in May their demand will tick up? Either way, it's counter to all the cutting everywhere else.
Thanks, Enliria

:)
 
paulsaz
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:10 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:48 pm

For May DFW still has about 100 more flights and 13000 more seats per day than CLT. The June schedule has not been loaded.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect on my employer in any way.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:51 pm

I think the July schedule will be most telling. As states start to open up, people will want to travel. International probably won’t start to return until October/November timeframe but Domestic should start to see an uptick...

Deep cuts for May and early June were expected.
 
Aware
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 1999 12:46 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:02 pm

Perhaps EI is being used by BA as the low cost option of maintaining US links?
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:06 pm

From the schedule I saw last night, it seems, at least for our regional, that they are trying to eliminate OOB Overnights as much as they can.
HQ staff terminations, not layoffs, began Friday. Training, recruiting, and some of the operations side got axed, hard. Staff covered by a CBA not affected, yet...
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:09 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
I think the July schedule will be most telling. As states start to open up, people will want to travel. International probably won’t start to return until October/November timeframe but Domestic should start to see an uptick...

Deep cuts for May and early June were expected.

International travel will not be returning until RELIABLE testing is available, in the country of origin.
I think it will end up being done, the same way as TSA preclearance overseas is being done now.
 
CV880
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:56 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:16 pm

No UA in May from DEN or LAX to Hawaii.
 
User avatar
jaybird
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:23 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:19 pm

I don't see HA flying that schedule in May - way too much capacity. At the end of this past week the City & County of Honolulu extended stay-at-home through May 31. A day or so later the Governor expanded it for the entire State. Plus - all arrivals - visitor and residents - go into a mandatory quarantine for 14 days. And now they're talking about taking everyone - visitors and residents - and holding them for 14 days at a designated facility. With all those restrictions the schedule HA published for May isn't reasonable - that's too many flights to too many destinations. I'm sure they'll revise it back down now.
 
User avatar
jaybird
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:23 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:22 pm

CV880 wrote:
No UA in May from DEN or LAX to Hawaii.


United has consolidated all HNL flights to/from SFO - there is no service to LAX, DEN, ORD, IAH, IAD or EWR. Hawaii has stay-at-home through May 31 - and mandatory quarantine for all visitors and residents returning to Hawaii for 14days. They're talking about taking all arrivals to a specific location for quarantine now since the "at your word" system wasn't working - tourists were acting like tourists and going around the islands.

I belive AA and DL have consolidated service to/from LAX. And I think once HA reworks their May schedule they'll go back to 1 daily to LAX also.
 
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jaybird
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:23 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:22 pm

jaybird wrote:
CV880 wrote:
No UA in May from DEN or LAX to Hawaii.


United has consolidated all HNL flights to/from SFO - it's daily flight - their is no service to LAX, DEN, ORD, IAH, IAD or EWR. Hawaii has stay-at-home through May 31 - and mandatory quarantine for all visitors and residents returning to Hawaii for 14days. They're talking about taking all arrivals to a specific location for quarantine now since the "at your word" system wasn't working - tourists were acting like tourists and going around the islands.

I belive AA and DL have consolidated service to/from LAX. And I think once HA reworks their May schedule they'll go back to 1 daily to LAX also.
 
jordanh
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:24 pm

OA412 wrote:
DL has cut all seasonal flying this summer other than JFK-ATH.


It is interesting that their schedule also shows JFK-LIS, JFK-ZRH, JFK-BCN, and JFK-MAD operating during the summer. There may be more I didn't see.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 892
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:35 pm

Someone upthread was asking about Icelandair. From the website.
Remember, “The Fish Must Flow”.


Latest information regarding flight schedule
Last updated April 24, 2020 12:27 PM
In light of the challenges presented by COVID-19, we have unfortunately had to make changes to our flight schedule. Below you can see scheduled flights until April 28th. All flights that do not appear on this list have been cancelled. Please note that the schedule is subject to change.

Boston Logan International – BOS

FI634 // BOS-KEF // April 25 and 30

FI635 // KEF-BOS // April 25 and 30

London Heathrow – LHR

FI450 // KEF-LHR // April 24, 26, 29, and May 1

FI451 // LHR-KEF // April 24, 26, 29, and May 1

Stockholm Arlanda – ARN

FI306 // KEF-ARN // April 25

FI307 // ARN KEF // April 25
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2258
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:54 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
I guess we know DL is committed to SEA now.

Some strange adds, AS ANC-SCC and DL SEA-KTN are both showing minor year over year increases.


DL to KTN makes no sense to me...AS were supposedly handing DL their lunch every summer into KTN, SIT and JNU. This summer of 2020 is going to be horrible in SE AK as tourism has hit rock bottom...why go back for more punishement? AS add to SCC is due to oil company charter service ending and the need for a new carrier to step in...or in AS's case to increase frequency.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8082
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:02 pm

The bell weather for any sort of indication for when we may see any uptick in business travel is going to be when the big consultancies, professional services, tech deployment firms start putting people back in the air. They all but disproportionate amount of air travel and while not essential, travel is a pretty essential part of how they do business. They will be some of the earlier ones to start ungrounding their employees. That isn’t happening in the month of May.
 
TW870
Posts: 1229
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:25 pm

jordanh wrote:
OA412 wrote:
DL has cut all seasonal flying this summer other than JFK-ATH.


It is interesting that their schedule also shows JFK-LIS, JFK-ZRH, JFK-BCN, and JFK-MAD operating during the summer. There may be more I didn't see.


It looks like for now they cut ATL-ZRH/BCN/MAD - which are normally busy routes in the summer - and will consolidate remaining traffic on the Kennedy flights. Same scoop with BOS-LIS consolidating onto JFK. But these may not last once they do the June cuts. My guess is most everything for June will be funneled onto the AMS and CDG hubs just like it is right now.
 
bpat777
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 1999 8:21 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:26 pm

I saw that WN will only have 2 daily flights at LGA for May. A 1:10p and a 5:10p both to BWI. Everything else has been cut.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:45 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
I guess we know DL is committed to SEA now.

Some strange adds, AS ANC-SCC and DL SEA-KTN are both showing minor year over year increases.


DL to KTN makes no sense to me...AS were supposedly handing DL their lunch every summer into KTN, SIT and JNU. This summer of 2020 is going to be horrible in SE AK as tourism has hit rock bottom...why go back for more punishement? AS add to SCC is due to oil company charter service ending and the need for a new carrier to step in...or in AS's case to increase frequency.


Maybe I missed some of DL's SEA cuts, but from what I have seen there has been less cut to SEA than almost any other hub/focus city. Maybe they see this as a chance to gain an upper hand in SEA.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 268
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:23 pm

I'm confused as to why there's any surprise over these changes. If you've traveled recently, you'd realize how many scheduled flights are being cancelled the day of. I flew on Thursday. My 2PM scheduled flight was cancelled, then my (rebooked) 6PM, then my (rebooked) 8PM, and finally my 10PM departed. At this busy airport, only half of the departure monitors were being used when I arrived around 1PM, displaying the remaining flights for the day -- about half showed as cancelled, and that number grew. I sat by myself in the terminal's food court... usually it's impossible to find a seat, but there were just a handful of people that showed up several hours I sat there. The food court overlooks one of the runways... usually it's lined up all day long, but there were just a handful of flights that departed the entire time I sat there.

At least the airlines are now scheduling something they're realistically likely to operate.

Aliqiout wrote:
Maybe I missed some of DL's SEA cuts, but from what I have seen there has been less cut to SEA than almost any other hub/focus city. Maybe they see this as a chance to gain an upper hand in SEA.


DL seems desperate to reserve its investment at SEA. I haven't looked at updates to the May schedule, but as of last week, for the first half of the month, there was no service to LAS from ATL, DTW or MSP, a single flight each from SLC & LAX... and two from SEA.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:52 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The bell weather for any sort of indication for when we may see any uptick in business travel is going to be when the big consultancies, professional services, tech deployment firms start putting people back in the air. They all but disproportionate amount of air travel and while not essential, travel is a pretty essential part of how they do business. They will be some of the earlier ones to start ungrounding their employees. That isn’t happening in the month of May.

You are going to see much of the travel for the foreseeable future going to Biz and General Aviation, I believe. Need borne out of distancing requirements.

You are already seeing it, 135’s are flying to limits as it is, and there are suddenly a bunch of US pilots in the pipeline, with no jobs waiting. Soon, it will be a glut of available pilots available.
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:04 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
I'm confused as to why there's any surprise over these changes. If you've traveled recently, you'd realize how many scheduled flights are being cancelled the day of. I flew on Thursday. My 2PM scheduled flight was cancelled, then my (rebooked) 6PM, then my (rebooked) 8PM, and finally my 10PM departed. At this busy airport, only half of the departure monitors were being used when I arrived around 1PM, displaying the remaining flights for the day -- about half showed as cancelled, and that number grew. I sat by myself in the terminal's food court... usually it's impossible to find a seat, but there were just a handful of people that showed up several hours I sat there. The food court overlooks one of the runways... usually it's lined up all day long, but there were just a handful of flights that departed the entire time I sat there.


Out of curiosity, which airport was this?
 
Cubsrule
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:15 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The bell weather for any sort of indication for when we may see any uptick in business travel is going to be when the big consultancies, professional services, tech deployment firms start putting people back in the air. They all but disproportionate amount of air travel and while not essential, travel is a pretty essential part of how they do business. They will be some of the earlier ones to start ungrounding their employees. That isn’t happening in the month of May.

You are going to see much of the travel for the foreseeable future going to Biz and General Aviation, I believe. Need borne out of distancing requirements.

You are already seeing it, 135’s are flying to limits as it is, and there are suddenly a bunch of US pilots in the pipeline, with no jobs waiting. Soon, it will be a glut of available pilots available.


I don’t know. I’m in the professional services bucket and we have plenty of spend in normal times, but we can’t afford to fly private unless prices come down tremendously for private. These days distancing is pretty much the same on commercial and private.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mxaxai
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:25 pm

enilria wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Wow.
Is your database able to show the flights that are flown? In particular TATL would be interesting, I would guess that the list of cancelled routes next month is longer than the list of flown routes.

On May1 ,the following transatlantic flights are still scheduled:

LH EWR-FRA
:)

Great summary, thanks! Regarding LH, AFAIK they also fly ORD-FRA 3x weekly (days 146), just not on May 1.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:15 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The bell weather for any sort of indication for when we may see any uptick in business travel is going to be when the big consultancies, professional services, tech deployment firms start putting people back in the air. They all but disproportionate amount of air travel and while not essential, travel is a pretty essential part of how they do business. They will be some of the earlier ones to start ungrounding their employees. That isn’t happening in the month of May.

You are going to see much of the travel for the foreseeable future going to Biz and General Aviation, I believe. Need borne out of distancing requirements.

You are already seeing it, 135’s are flying to limits as it is, and there are suddenly a bunch of US pilots in the pipeline, with no jobs waiting. Soon, it will be a glut of available pilots available.


I don’t know. I’m in the professional services bucket and we have plenty of spend in normal times, but we can’t afford to fly private unless prices come down tremendously for private. These days distancing is pretty much the same on commercial and private.


You can't count on distancing if you're flying commercial. Two weeks ago, I removed myself from an NK flight after discovering that the 320 was nearly full (even though the middle seats had previously been blocked). And last week on AA, the Main Cabin was completely full, but First Class/Main Cabin Extra were nearly empty - they were enforcing an upgrade fee to sit in the Extra section. For many people and small businesses, that fee (which started at $65pp) could be too much. That said, flying private is simply cost prohibitive for most businesses, although I wouldn't be surprised to see a short-term increase - mainly for execs of large businesses. Instead, it's probable that corporate travel will be in the toilet for the near-term, not recovering until a vaccine is available or we grow to accept status quo.

CIDFlyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, which airport was this?


It was ORD.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:42 pm

For the consultancies and professional services and tech firms and the likes the ability to travel and fly is one element but also clients and such getting back into offices and allowing visitors and anyone non essential back into buildings and facilities.

Not to mention the economic fallout and austerity measures businesses are putting in class that is going to curtain, deffer, reduce external spend on tech projects and consulting spend for the next 12-24+ months.

It’s going to be a slow road out of this mess for a variety of reasons.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:47 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
You are going to see much of the travel for the foreseeable future going to Biz and General Aviation, I believe. Need borne out of distancing requirements.

You are already seeing it, 135’s are flying to limits as it is, and there are suddenly a bunch of US pilots in the pipeline, with no jobs waiting. Soon, it will be a glut of available pilots available.


I don’t know. I’m in the professional services bucket and we have plenty of spend in normal times, but we can’t afford to fly private unless prices come down tremendously for private. These days distancing is pretty much the same on commercial and private.


You can't count on distancing if you're flying commercial. Two weeks ago, I removed myself from an NK flight after discovering that the 320 was nearly full (even though the middle seats had previously been blocked). And last week on AA, the Main Cabin was completely full, but First Class/Main Cabin Extra were nearly empty - they were enforcing an upgrade fee to sit in the Extra section. For many people and small businesses, that fee (which started at $65pp) could be too much. That said, flying private is simply cost prohibitive for most businesses, although I wouldn't be surprised to see a short-term increase - mainly for execs of large businesses. Instead, it's probable that corporate travel will be in the toilet for the near-term, not recovering until a vaccine is available or we grow to accept status quo.

CIDFlyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, which airport was this?


It was ORD.

There is a liability component to that, as well. What happens when your critical staff is quarantined because someone on the plane with them was sick? Employees suing when they get sick, we already know that large meeting and conventions are done for the year, at least, due to the risk. And airlines can’t cover costs running empty airplanes forever.

GA will fill a lot of that gap. (As will solo driving.)
In recent years, a large part of the expense was the lack of suitable pilots. That is gone now, and fuel will be cheap for some time to come.

I can see the low-time EMB-140’s coming out of the desert soon, revamped to executive config, when someone with deep pockets realizes the same thing.
Maybe not full blown corporate flight departments, but on-demand. The pilot layoffs, and you can bet there will be a lot more, now make that seem profitable.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:52 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I don’t know. I’m in the professional services bucket and we have plenty of spend in normal times, but we can’t afford to fly private unless prices come down tremendously for private. These days distancing is pretty much the same on commercial and private.


You can't count on distancing if you're flying commercial. Two weeks ago, I removed myself from an NK flight after discovering that the 320 was nearly full (even though the middle seats had previously been blocked). And last week on AA, the Main Cabin was completely full, but First Class/Main Cabin Extra were nearly empty - they were enforcing an upgrade fee to sit in the Extra section. For many people and small businesses, that fee (which started at $65pp) could be too much. That said, flying private is simply cost prohibitive for most businesses, although I wouldn't be surprised to see a short-term increase - mainly for execs of large businesses. Instead, it's probable that corporate travel will be in the toilet for the near-term, not recovering until a vaccine is available or we grow to accept status quo.

CIDFlyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, which airport was this?


It was ORD.

There is a liability component to that, as well. What happens when your critical staff is quarantined because someone on the plane with them was sick? Employees suing when they get sick, we already know that large meeting and conventions are done for the year, at least, due to the risk. And airlines can’t cover costs running empty airplanes forever.

GA will fill a lot of that gap. (As will solo driving.)
In recent years, a large part of the expense was the lack of suitable pilots. That is gone now, and fuel will be cheap for some time to come.

I can see the low-time EMB-140’s coming out of the desert soon, revamped to executive config, when someone with deep pockets realizes the same thing.
Maybe not full blown corporate flight departments, but on-demand. The pilot layoffs, and you can bet there will be a lot more, now make that seem profitable.


Professional services isn’t monolithic, of course, but most firms in my industry have prepared for periodic quarantines of individual staff for a host of reasons. I have a number of partners on semi-permanent quarantine because they are married to doctors and have had several other quarantined for travel. I don’t see quarantine possibility as a significant concern compared to the macroeconomic environment and the health situation at the destination.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
tphuang
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:11 am

Aliqiout wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
I guess we know DL is committed to SEA now.

Some strange adds, AS ANC-SCC and DL SEA-KTN are both showing minor year over year increases.


DL to KTN makes no sense to me...AS were supposedly handing DL their lunch every summer into KTN, SIT and JNU. This summer of 2020 is going to be horrible in SE AK as tourism has hit rock bottom...why go back for more punishement? AS add to SCC is due to oil company charter service ending and the need for a new carrier to step in...or in AS's case to increase frequency.


Maybe I missed some of DL's SEA cuts, but from what I have seen there has been less cut to SEA than almost any other hub/focus city. Maybe they see this as a chance to gain an upper hand in SEA.


Just doing a count of number of flights (and I could be off here) for a day in May for DL:
SEA - 45
LAX - 31
BOS - 7
RDU - 6
CVG - 7

That should tell you how DL views SEA. They are dug in. And some of these places they serve from SEA are currently not served anywhere else in the network. That's probably why SEA is viewed so importantly. That's how DL gets their ff base from Alaska and PNW + surrounding regions. I guess they don't think SLC can serve the same role. Even LAX doesn't get the same level of attention.

On the other hand, BOS/RDU/CVG look toast - down to just 3 or 4 destinations. Hard to see them not getting heavy cuts after this.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:15 am

tphuang wrote:
Just doing a count of number of flights (and I could be off here) for a day in May for DL:
SEA - 45
LAX - 31
BOS - 7
RDU - 6
CVG - 7

Could you do the same for the 5 fortress hubs on the same day?
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:18 am

SYR is down to about six flights a day across all carriers.
 
ggflyboy
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:18 am

What are the odds that BA flights to primarily leisure-oriented, VFR spokes (SAN, CHS, MSY, AUS, etc.) without great partner connectivity will resume in any form in the June schedule? Crazy to think that SAN was supporting daily 747 traffic a handful of weeks ago, and now it's quite likely there won't be any 747's to put on the route. I can't imagine BA just steps into a full schedule on 01 June, when places like LAX aren't even fully operational yet. Are these backburner routes that will gradually phase back in after the bigger hubs are sorted, or are these routes facing a lengthy hiatus/existential threat?
 
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knope2001
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:43 am

DLASFlyer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Just doing a count of number of flights (and I could be off here) for a day in May for DL:
SEA - 45
LAX - 31
BOS - 7
RDU - 6
CVG - 7

Could you do the same for the 5 fortress hubs on the same day?


Here's what I come up with for weekdays in May for a DTW/MSP/SLC (domestic only)

DTW
111 flights (40 mainline / 71 regional)
74 cities

MSP
93 flights (37 mainline / 56 regional)
66 cities

SLC
91 flights (42 mainline /49 regional)
57 cities

Where SLC has an advantage is many sizable markets on the (west) coast are still 2 or 3 per day. Detroit largely has 1 or 2 flights to sizable (east) coast destinations, and MSP has a whole lot of 1x/day markets.

Not sure if I'll get to ATL as it is (obviously) the biggest and Delta's website has been down.
 
Brickell305
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:53 am

tphuang wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:

DL to KTN makes no sense to me...AS were supposedly handing DL their lunch every summer into KTN, SIT and JNU. This summer of 2020 is going to be horrible in SE AK as tourism has hit rock bottom...why go back for more punishement? AS add to SCC is due to oil company charter service ending and the need for a new carrier to step in...or in AS's case to increase frequency.


Maybe I missed some of DL's SEA cuts, but from what I have seen there has been less cut to SEA than almost any other hub/focus city. Maybe they see this as a chance to gain an upper hand in SEA.


Just doing a count of number of flights (and I could be off here) for a day in May for DL:
SEA - 45
LAX - 31
BOS - 7
RDU - 6
CVG - 7

That should tell you how DL views SEA. They are dug in. And some of these places they serve from SEA are currently not served anywhere else in the network. That's probably why SEA is viewed so importantly. That's how DL gets their ff base from Alaska and PNW + surrounding regions. I guess they don't think SLC can serve the same role. Even LAX doesn't get the same level of attention.

On the other hand, BOS/RDU/CVG look toast - down to just 3 or 4 destinations. Hard to see them not getting heavy cuts after this.

Doesn’t the fact that the SEA destinations aren’t served from anywhere else basically force DL to keep flying them to comply with the CARES Act?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:04 am

DFW17L wrote:
afcjets wrote:
It appears CLT is now AA's largest hub with way more flights than DFW. I wonder why that is and how long it will continue?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1445147


Could it be a strategy by AA that focuses on where passenger strength (anemic as it is) in the US is expected to be, and at the same time, compete with ATL? Talk amongst yourselves.

Image


No I think it's a geography thing. Planes are so empty CLT is a shorter distance from more cities and allows for better connections to more places right now. All temporary. It's just a better geographical position than dfw for this temporary weird time we are in. Which is showing to be a quite a bit longer then we all want it to be. AA wants a setup that will work for months to reduce costs as much as possible.

Airlines are in no way competing against each other right now. AA is only looking at delta to see best practices and if there is anything they can do to save money themselves to copy. This is survival mode not a.net games airlines competing against each other. Market share is not a metric anyone cares about.

People on a.net don't seem to understand how dire a financial position the airlines are in. They are all just trying to survive right now to live another day.
 
tphuang
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:23 am

Brickell305 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:

Maybe I missed some of DL's SEA cuts, but from what I have seen there has been less cut to SEA than almost any other hub/focus city. Maybe they see this as a chance to gain an upper hand in SEA.


Just doing a count of number of flights (and I could be off here) for a day in May for DL:
SEA - 45
LAX - 31
BOS - 7
RDU - 6
CVG - 7

That should tell you how DL views SEA. They are dug in. And some of these places they serve from SEA are currently not served anywhere else in the network. That's probably why SEA is viewed so importantly. That's how DL gets their ff base from Alaska and PNW + surrounding regions. I guess they don't think SLC can serve the same role. Even LAX doesn't get the same level of attention.

On the other hand, BOS/RDU/CVG look toast - down to just 3 or 4 destinations. Hard to see them not getting heavy cuts after this.

Doesn’t the fact that the SEA destinations aren’t served from anywhere else basically force DL to keep flying them to comply with the CARES Act?


Well, DL doesn't necessarily have to serve all of them from SEA. For example, HNL is served from SEA, not from LAX on the day I looked at. There is no reason they couldn't serve it from LAX to comply with CARES. All the PNW cities can be served from SLC also. But I guess DL must view SEA as so essential to their PNW/AK and maybe even northern cali strategy in terms of getting ff from that part of the country that they now view SEA as not replaceable. I'm a little dumbfounded. It looks like SEA is getting higher place in their hub world than even LAX. Maybe they see this pandemic as a way of getting a stronger foothold there. It's certainly hard to argue that BOS/RDU/CVG are not duplicated by other part of their network. And with lower O&D, they may be looking to just cut back on the focus city strategy and connect them through the hubs.
 
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Amwest2United
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:37 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
What are the odds most of the UAX routes from EWR return in the future? I knew prior to this UA was shifting a lot to IAD and as you can see in today’s report most have temporarily shifted.

tphuang wrote:
UAX will come back. If anything, UAX is needed to lower capacity and maintain schedule. IAD on the other hand is most likely going to get significantly downsized.


IAD already got downsized to 1 bank between 1530-1750 - beside the 1600/1700 bank, there are only the following flights to the hubs: DEN -2x / IAH- 2x / ORD- 2x / EWR - 1x (not counting the 1700 bank)
Last edited by Amwest2United on Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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OzarkD9S
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:39 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

Can we throw hub / city envy or fanboyism out the window in this environment?

The reality is that everyone is trying to maintain minimal levels of flying while perserving destinations served. In many cases that means flying to the closest geographically located hub and / or reducing stage lengths of operating flights and thus reducing costs.

It’s not about competition at this time.


If you make this much sense, why are you on A-net? :confused:

Well said.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
hiflyeras
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:28 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
DL seems desperate to reserve its investment at SEA. I haven't looked at updates to the May schedule, but as of last week, for the first half of the month, there was no service to LAS from ATL, DTW or MSP, a single flight each from SLC & LAX... and two from SEA.


Makes no sense...no one is going to LAS. They’re just trying to retain gate share in SEA but the sad reality is there will be plenty of gates available at every airport a year from now.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:46 am

How I envision Enilria after he finished typing all of these changes

Image

Hats off to you sir, we appreciate all your hard work.




enilria wrote:

LO ORD-WAW MAY 1.6>2[1.4]

MF LAX-XMN MAY 0.3>1.2[0.5]


TP BOS-LIS JUL 1.0>1.7[1.0]
TP EWR-LIS JUL 2>3[1.0]
TP LIS-MIA JUL 1.5>3[1.0]



To me this is just bonkers. Who do these airlines think are going to be on these flights? In May no less! At least TP is taking a gamble on July which is the heart of summer season.
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 3:58 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I don’t know. I’m in the professional services bucket and we have plenty of spend in normal times, but we can’t afford to fly private unless prices come down tremendously for private. These days distancing is pretty much the same on commercial and private.


You can't count on distancing if you're flying commercial. Two weeks ago, I removed myself from an NK flight after discovering that the 320 was nearly full (even though the middle seats had previously been blocked). And last week on AA, the Main Cabin was completely full, but First Class/Main Cabin Extra were nearly empty - they were enforcing an upgrade fee to sit in the Extra section. For many people and small businesses, that fee (which started at $65pp) could be too much. That said, flying private is simply cost prohibitive for most businesses, although I wouldn't be surprised to see a short-term increase - mainly for execs of large businesses. Instead, it's probable that corporate travel will be in the toilet for the near-term, not recovering until a vaccine is available or we grow to accept status quo.

CIDFlyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, which airport was this?


It was ORD.

There is a liability component to that, as well. What happens when your critical staff is quarantined because someone on the plane with them was sick? Employees suing when they get sick, we already know that large meeting and conventions are done for the year, at least, due to the risk. And airlines can’t cover costs running empty airplanes forever.

GA will fill a lot of that gap. (As will solo driving.)
In recent years, a large part of the expense was the lack of suitable pilots. That is gone now, and fuel will be cheap for some time to come.

I can see the low-time EMB-140’s coming out of the desert soon, revamped to executive config, when someone with deep pockets realizes the same thing.
Maybe not full blown corporate flight departments, but on-demand. The pilot layoffs, and you can bet there will be a lot more, now make that seem profitable.


Intel already have a service much like you are describing with multiple ERJ's shuttle employees around different campuses on the west coast every day. I can't imagine it is profitable with salaries/maintenance but it obviously works well enough to stick around.

Corporate aviation is definitely going to come out better than airlines with maybe some new flight departments popping up.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/I ... e-Aircraft
 
GordonCC
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:07 am

Does this mean that United is pulling entirely out of Edinburgh?
 
KFTG
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:10 am

Image
 
HVN2HEL2LAX
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:00 am

SierraPacific wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:

You can't count on distancing if you're flying commercial. Two weeks ago, I removed myself from an NK flight after discovering that the 320 was nearly full (even though the middle seats had previously been blocked). And last week on AA, the Main Cabin was completely full, but First Class/Main Cabin Extra were nearly empty - they were enforcing an upgrade fee to sit in the Extra section. For many people and small businesses, that fee (which started at $65pp) could be too much. That said, flying private is simply cost prohibitive for most businesses, although I wouldn't be surprised to see a short-term increase - mainly for execs of large businesses. Instead, it's probable that corporate travel will be in the toilet for the near-term, not recovering until a vaccine is available or we grow to accept status quo.



It was ORD.

There is a liability component to that, as well. What happens when your critical staff is quarantined because someone on the plane with them was sick? Employees suing when they get sick, we already know that large meeting and conventions are done for the year, at least, due to the risk. And airlines can’t cover costs running empty airplanes forever.

GA will fill a lot of that gap. (As will solo driving.)
In recent years, a large part of the expense was the lack of suitable pilots. That is gone now, and fuel will be cheap for some time to come.

I can see the low-time EMB-140’s coming out of the desert soon, revamped to executive config, when someone with deep pockets realizes the same thing.
Maybe not full blown corporate flight departments, but on-demand. The pilot layoffs, and you can bet there will be a lot more, now make that seem profitable.


Intel already have a service much like you are describing with multiple ERJ's shuttle employees around different campuses on the west coast every day. I can't imagine it is profitable with salaries/maintenance but it obviously works well enough to stick around.

Corporate aviation is definitely going to come out better than airlines with maybe some new flight departments popping up.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/I ... e-Aircraft


Intel is not flying pax right now.
 
flyoregon
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Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:05 am

HVN2HEL2LAX wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
There is a liability component to that, as well. What happens when your critical staff is quarantined because someone on the plane with them was sick? Employees suing when they get sick, we already know that large meeting and conventions are done for the year, at least, due to the risk. And airlines can’t cover costs running empty airplanes forever.

GA will fill a lot of that gap. (As will solo driving.)
In recent years, a large part of the expense was the lack of suitable pilots. That is gone now, and fuel will be cheap for some time to come.

I can see the low-time EMB-140’s coming out of the desert soon, revamped to executive config, when someone with deep pockets realizes the same thing.
Maybe not full blown corporate flight departments, but on-demand. The pilot layoffs, and you can bet there will be a lot more, now make that seem profitable.


Intel already have a service much like you are describing with multiple ERJ's shuttle employees around different campuses on the west coast every day. I can't imagine it is profitable with salaries/maintenance but it obviously works well enough to stick around.

Corporate aviation is definitely going to come out better than airlines with maybe some new flight departments popping up.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/I ... e-Aircraft


Intel is not flying pax right now.


They’re still flying HIO-SJC at least 1x daily M-F
 
HVN2HEL2LAX
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:26 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:25 am

flyoregon wrote:
HVN2HEL2LAX wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:

Intel already have a service much like you are describing with multiple ERJ's shuttle employees around different campuses on the west coast every day. I can't imagine it is profitable with salaries/maintenance but it obviously works well enough to stick around.

Corporate aviation is definitely going to come out better than airlines with maybe some new flight departments popping up.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/I ... e-Aircraft


Intel is not flying pax right now.


They’re still flying HIO-SJC at least 1x daily M-F


They are not flying PAX right now.
 
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SierraPacific
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:55 am

HVN2HEL2LAX wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
HVN2HEL2LAX wrote:

Intel is not flying pax right now.


They’re still flying HIO-SJC at least 1x daily M-F


They are not flying PAX right now.


I saw them on Friday at Gateway while I was instructing so they are flying but I can't say if they are flying PAX. What would they be flying if no PAX?

Attached FlightAware link

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/HGT ... /KSJC/KIWA
 
alasizon
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:16 am

Aliqiout wrote:
Some strange adds, AS ANC-SCC and DL SEA-KTN are both showing minor year over year increases.

As I recall ANC-SCC was a planned increase due to trimming FAI-SCC this year due to the poor ish performance last year. The ANC-FAI-SCC-ANC routing apparently was quite rough.. Not sure if it was accidentally trimmed in a prior week but the frequency looks the same as what was planned.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
LJ
Posts: 5339
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: OAG Changes 4/26/2020: Saturday Night Massacre

Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:35 am

SierraPacific wrote:
Intel already have a service much like you are describing with multiple ERJ's shuttle employees around different campuses on the west coast every day. I can't imagine it is profitable with salaries/maintenance but it obviously works well enough to stick around.


Ford used to have such shuttle (in both US asn Europe) and Airbus has such shuttle, though contracted out, as well between Hamburg and Toulouse. These shuttles are there for convenience and ensure that its employees can go back the same day. Moreover, they can save money if you've many people who have to do the same trip each day.

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