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Boston757
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Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:34 pm

Not long ago just as the Delta/Latam hookup was announced, Delta was all over the ramp in Miami. Not only in the south terminal but all over AAs.
Question being is Delta going along with all the expansion in Miami or are they going to take that slow.
 
0newair0
Posts: 421
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:36 pm

Boston757 wrote:
Not long ago just as the Delta/Latam hookup was announced, Delta was all over the ramp in Miami. Not only in the south terminal but all over AAs.
Question being is Delta going along with all the expansion in Miami or are they going to take that slow.
Very slow. There's no demand for the flights that were there originally, much less the new additional flights because of the LATAM deal.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
JayinKitsap
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:59 pm

Every decision made before March 1 will be reassessed. Aviation is in a very deep hole, it may be months before 25% of the former flights are back in service.
 
FSDan
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:22 pm

They were never going into MIA "full force", if you ask me... While some on this site pictured DL truly rivaling AA in MIA, the reality is that they were starting a few key feeder routes within Florida and moderately beefing up service from some hubs. In the medium term (a year or two out) I wouldn't be too surprised to see them stick with this plan, although it no doubt faces a setback. I imagine Latin America to Orlando traffic is tanking right now and MIA-MCO was arguably the most important part of DL's expansion.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:28 pm

Doubt it. As the industry begins its slow crawl back (and that crawl is likely a few more weeks or months away), the US3 will focus on their hub markets, and those markets will be a priority for some time. The era of expanding by way of focus cities, Saturday only service, and playing in each other's backyard, is likely over for a year, maybe 2. Delta's investment in LATAM could not have been more ill-timed, but they could not have foreseen it.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:29 pm

DL's fighting for survival at the moment, MIA expansion plans aren't likely on its radar. When things settle down, they may revisit the idea, but it wouldn't surprise me if DL walked away from its prior deal with LATAM (as much as it could).
 
OB1504
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:38 pm

Boston757 wrote:
Not long ago just as the Delta/Latam hookup was announced, Delta was all over the ramp in Miami. Not only in the south terminal but all over AAs.
Question being is Delta going along with all the expansion in Miami or are they going to take that slow.


"All over the ramp"? Delta never expanded beyond their gates on the west side of H (and H6 on the east side) and the expansion until the start of the pandemic had consisted of a handful of extra flights on A320 series aircraft.
 
jfk777
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:39 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
DL's fighting for survival at the moment, MIA expansion plans aren't likely on its radar. When things settle down, they may revisit the idea, but it wouldn't surprise me if DL walked away from its prior deal with LATAM (as much as it could).


Why would Delta "walk away" from LATAM when they already spent some huge number buying stock in LATAM ? A few more fights to MIA is no big deal to Delta.
LATAM will still have huge operations to Miami, Delta or No Delta. The benefit to Delta from the LATAM JV are in GRU, Lima and SCL.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:43 pm

:shock: Yeh yeh. Full steam ahead...
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:49 pm

They wanted latam they never said they were building a hub there. A.net said that. Delta had some feeder flights is all I think they had planned. It was the usually Miami prints money from anywhere crowd that has already been proven false.

Like others said anything prior to march 1, the world is in a totally different position. Deltas main job right now is bleeding as little as possible, retiring the best financially based planes to save money, and to make sure all cities are served correctly to get the federal money. They are no worried about building a Miami hub trust me, not even close to on their current priorities list.
 
tphuang
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:02 pm

Whatever they planned is finished. That is quite clear. Big question is what happens to their relationship with Latam. There is no guarantee at this point that they will go forth with the jv.
 
0newair0
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:04 pm

tphuang wrote:
Whatever they planned is finished. That is quite clear. Big question is what happens to their relationship with Latam. There is no guarantee at this point that they will go forth with the jv.
If they don't go forward they will be on the hook for millions in damages to LATAM.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
ERAUMBA
Posts: 43
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:09 pm

Delta has reduced their flight schedule by 90%. Even with that type of a reduction, daily load factors (the actual number of passengers in seats) average around 15%. That means, utilizing basic mathematic skills, that there are 15 paying passengers for every 100 seats offered for sale.

And the answer is: “No”.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here, a.net.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:49 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Why would Delta "walk away" from LATAM when they already spent some huge number buying stock in LATAM ? A few more fights to MIA is no big deal to Delta.
LATAM will still have huge operations to Miami, Delta or No Delta. The benefit to Delta from the LATAM JV are in GRU, Lima and SCL.


0newair0 wrote:
If they don't go forward they will be on the hook for millions in damages to LATAM.


And if LATAM files for bankruptcy...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:10 pm

tphuang wrote:
Whatever they planned is finished. That is quite clear. Big question is what happens to their relationship with Latam. There is no guarantee at this point that they will go forth with the jv.


They already spent $1.9 Billion for the equity stake (completed in 2019, actually) and $350 million in misc payments to LATAM. The JV will proceed if reg approval is given.
Last edited by MIflyer12 on Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:10 pm

Boston757 wrote:
Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Who, other than AvGeeks, ever postulated that they were "going into Miami full force" in the first place?


slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
they never said they were building a hub there. A.net said that.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
onwFan
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:55 pm

I believe the extent of focus in MIA for them will depend a lot on which LATAM subsidiaries will survive the pandemic. LA Chile, Brazil and Peru are probably safe. But LA Colombia, Ecuador, Argentina and Paraguay - no one knows. LA operations at MIA will most probably be reduced to GRU, SCL and LIM for the forseeable future.

As for the JV, I think DL would definitely want to first find a path to profits in the partnership. And given that LA was already a loss making enterprise, that will take even more time and lots of cuts. Otherwise, they will simply be diluting any profit they can hope to make in ATL. Either way, I bet now both LA and DL simply wish that there was a reset button!
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:13 am

I could see them keeping MCO-MIA at maybe 1 or 2x daily to feed with the LATAM connecting banks, but the 5x daily plan was always way too much capacity, even before COVID-19.
 
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par13del
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:51 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
I could see them keeping MCO-MIA at maybe 1 or 2x daily to feed with the LATAM connecting banks, but the 5x daily plan was always way too much capacity, even before COVID-19.

...with the massive operation DL has in MCO why not have LATAM increase and shift flights directly to MCO, avoid the stop in MIA?
Flights to MIA can continue, just more focus on MCO and maybe ATL.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:22 am

par13del wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
I could see them keeping MCO-MIA at maybe 1 or 2x daily to feed with the LATAM connecting banks, but the 5x daily plan was always way too much capacity, even before COVID-19.

...with the massive operation DL has in MCO why not have LATAM increase and shift flights directly to MCO, avoid the stop in MIA?
Flights to MIA can continue, just more focus on MCO and maybe ATL.


Probably not because the majority of demand from S. America is to MIA, not MCO. It’s cheaper for DL to operate 1-2 short feeder flight from MCO-MIA to provide connectivity for these flights, although 5x daily is way too much as there isn’t enough O&D nor enough connecting opportunities in MIA and MCO to justify that amount of service.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:29 am

par13del wrote:
...with the massive operation DL has in MCO why not have LATAM increase and shift flights directly to MCO, avoid the stop in MIA?
Flights to MIA can continue, just more focus on MCO and maybe ATL.

Easy answer being: because demand from MIA is several orders of magnitude higher than from MCO
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Is Delta still going into Miami full force?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:18 am

par13del wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
I could see them keeping MCO-MIA at maybe 1 or 2x daily to feed with the LATAM connecting banks, but the 5x daily plan was always way too much capacity, even before COVID-19.

...with the massive operation DL has in MCO why not have LATAM increase and shift flights directly to MCO, avoid the stop in MIA?
Flights to MIA can continue, just more focus on MCO and maybe ATL.


Delta does not a “massive” operation at MCO, it is merely a large spoke. And avoid want stop? The market to Miami is significantly larger. That would force most people to make an additional stop.

Latin America/Caribbean tends to recover fastest after a downturn. So while I can’t imagine any of the announced plans happen this year, maybe 1-2 years down the road. Although if MIAMCO goes ahead and starts at some point this year I wouldn’t be shocked, as it’s an important feeder market and Orlando’s connectivity to Latin America will soon go to probably close to nothing.
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