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MrHMSH
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Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:15 am

With global demand probably going to be waaaaay down for a fairly long time, would EK consider buying narrowbodies to replace a lot of their flying, or maybe just taking flydubai's fleet and making into Emirates (a bit like SQ folding MI into their operations)? With the range of the MAX and neo they can cover all of Europe and a lot of Asia and Africa.
 
myki
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:45 am

Whether you agree or not, EK are known for their luxury offering (bar onboard, shower, First with sliding doors, etc.) which are things that a MAX wouldn't be able to offer.

By keeping FZ separate, most people would understand that they are not getting on an EK flight and therefore will not have these. On the flip side, getting EK in to every airport in Europe would be a goal, but this is something that a 787/A350 could handle with an EK logo on the tail.
 
Toinou
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:59 am

myki wrote:
Whether you agree or not, EK are known for their luxury offering (bar onboard, shower, First with sliding doors, etc.) which are things that a MAX wouldn't be able to offer.

By keeping FZ separate, most people would understand that they are not getting on an EK flight and therefore will not have these. On the flip side, getting EK in to every airport in Europe would be a goal, but this is something that a 787/A350 could handle with an EK logo on the tail.


Whether you agree or not, times are changing, maybe for some time, maybe for so long you could say forever (by which I mean that it may be a shifting point in the air transport evolution, or not).
So what you take for granted, what things "are known" to be may well be over. Even if it is temporary, many companies will have to take drastic changes, not to grow, not to be in a better shape, but just to keep going.

In my opinion, it is sure that having narrowbodies would mean a huge change for EK, but it could allow them to survive in a shrinking market by keeping the huge connectivity they provide.
The luxury offering may be still offered on the most important market by, as you say, use 787/350. But to keep the smallest markets, that are important to feed the largest ones, they will need much smaller planes. Look at what we have to compare: EY which shrank its network , thus reducing connectivity, and QR which admitted it had to use narrowbodies on some markets (with a very confortable product it seems). Which one seemed to have the best situation (before the outbreak)?
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:08 am

Don't forget that the hard product on the flydubai MAX is already very good. It can also be styled to EK needs quite easily. Forget the NG's and focus on the MAX offering. It will compete with products offered around the Gulf. Yes it's different in look and feel to a 777 or A380 but things changed worldwide now. Install a maybe more EK-like pitch in Y, switch to ICE all round and offer a EK soft product however possible. Cosmetics are easily done. Hard products and integrating offices/people etc will be harder. But not impossible.
 
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Coal
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:57 am

myki wrote:
Whether you agree or not, EK are known for their luxury offering (bar onboard, shower, First with sliding doors, etc.) which are things that a MAX wouldn't be able to offer.

By keeping FZ separate, most people would understand that they are not getting on an EK flight and therefore will not have these. On the flip side, getting EK in to every airport in Europe would be a goal, but this is something that a 787/A350 could handle with an EK logo on the tail.

That was exactly the same thinking at SQ/MI until they realized the overheads of having the two separate airlines/brands didn't make sense, especially as MI rolled out plans to become more competitively differentiated against other legacies + LCCs in SE Asia (e.g. introducing lie flat seats in J, PTVs in Y, etc.).
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
Blerg
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:05 am

I know they would keep separate brands but those B737s would look fantastic in EK livery. Also, didn't FZ introduce a completely new business class product on the MAX aircraft?
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:42 am

Blerg wrote:
I know they would keep separate brands but those B737s would look fantastic in EK livery. Also, didn't FZ introduce a completely new business class product on the MAX aircraft?


Yes. Proper full Thompson Vantage flatbeds and Zodiac's RAVE IFE system all around too. Y class has and fully featured Recaro CL3710 seats. Just the legroom is maybe too tight for EK and 6-8hr operations. The MAX 8 has 10 J class seats vs 16 J class om MAX 9. I'm expecting the upcoming MAX 10 to have 2 versions; 1 with full Y and one with around 20 J seats.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2018/02/07/jpa-design-leads-the-way-in-narrowbody-paxex-with-flydubais-737-max-8/
 
marcogr12
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:17 pm

That s all very well but decisions have to be made based on current fleet flying...Nobody knows when the MAX will fly again...Plus , social distancing measures are said to have an effect on fares upwards...How will FZ cope with that which already has very high fares for its supposedly economy low fare product? Will they split the fleet to full Y and Y plus biz class for high end markets? Air Arabia and Wizzair ,although from different hub, are going ahead with their AUH plans...Wizz is said to be transferring its DWC flights to AUH....Should EK copy QR and go for some A320/321neos (xlr included) or should they work even closer with FZ and offer LCC style prpduct also to fight competition? I had read that FZ is considering Airbus planes since there is no light soon enough for the MAXs
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:25 pm

myki wrote:
Whether you agree or not, EK are known for their luxury offering (bar onboard, shower, First with sliding doors, etc.) which are things that a MAX wouldn't be able to offer.

That's cute: you're worried about "luxury" when they're worried about abject survival. :lol:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
sibibom
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:26 pm

myki wrote:
Whether you agree or not, EK are known for their luxury offering (bar onboard, shower, First with sliding doors, etc.) which are things that a MAX wouldn't be able to offer.


Well over half their fleet doesn't have bar, shower and a business class that is 7 across! Is that really luxury?

FZ business class is far more classier (yeah its a narrowbody and does shorter flight)
 
airzona11
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:32 pm

Their model is based on high volume funneled through DXB. They operate the 2 largest planes flying. Narrow bodies don't fit their model.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:37 pm

I think the Fly Dubai business class hard product on the 737MAX would work for the Emirates brand

Image

Image

https://www.gotravelyourway.com/2018/05 ... lass-seat/
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:58 pm

myki wrote:
Whether you agree or not, EK are known for their luxury offering (bar onboard, shower, First with sliding doors, etc.) which are things that a MAX wouldn't be able to offer.

By keeping FZ separate, most people would understand that they are not getting on an EK flight and therefore will not have these. On the flip side, getting EK into every airport in Europe would be a goal, but this is something that a 787/A350 could handle with an EK logo on the tail.


Sure in first they are by far the best. But in Business class? The U.S. Carriers have better offerings, and that's just embarrassing when you have United with a more competitive product than a "luxury" brand.

And again that's all it is, branding, they will need to start having lower capacity aircraft to be able to be more competitive, the other carriers in the region who EK competes with (EY, while they are not a huge player they still are there, but mainly QR) all operate significant narrow-body fleets, why? Because it allows them more flexibility.

The MAX with FZ's new J allows them to be competitive in J and be more flexible.
 
myki
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:28 am

Insertnamehere wrote:
myki wrote:
Whether you agree or not, EK are known for their luxury offering (bar onboard, shower, First with sliding doors, etc.) which are things that a MAX wouldn't be able to offer.

By keeping FZ separate, most people would understand that they are not getting on an EK flight and therefore will not have these. On the flip side, getting EK into every airport in Europe would be a goal, but this is something that a 787/A350 could handle with an EK logo on the tail.


Sure in first they are by far the best. But in Business class? The U.S. Carriers have better offerings, and that's just embarrassing when you have United with a more competitive product than a "luxury" brand.

Correct. As much as I would never say no to a J upgrade, their are loads of other airlines across the world that can offer aisle access to every seat in J. There's a difference between luxurious and perceived to be luxurious
;)

And for other players in the region, WY also have a great offering in J too.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:25 am

Didn't I read on a.net that EK was going to absorb FkyDubai eventually?
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
andrej
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Re: Could EK be considering narrowbodies/integrating FZ into their operation?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:36 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Didn't I read on a.net that EK was going to absorb FkyDubai eventually?

No sure about if EK will fully absorb FZ, but it is publicly known fact that EK increased cooperation with FZ (including code-sharing, ability to earn EK miles on FZ flights). Some FZ flights are even served in Dubai from Terminal 3, wheres FZ's main terminal is Terminal 2.

Several years ago this was unimaginable, but as times became more challenging, decision of closer cooperation was made. However, I highly doubt that you will see B737 in EK's colors.

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