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Nicknuzzii
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DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:51 am

While this news might be irrelevant now since the playing field has been completely leveled DL has actually taken a lead over UA in the NYC market. UA has been the largest carrier since the merger.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:53 am

Please post a link. I added a question mark to the title, temporarily, until there is a source.

Lightsaber
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:55 am

lightsaber wrote:
Please post a link. I added a question mark to the title, temporarily, until there is a source.

Lightsaber


https://www.panynj.gov/content/dam/airp ... B_2020.pdf
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:57 am

Anything that happened prior to March 17th 2020 is irrelevant like this. All of the airlines are drafting entirely new strategies for everything.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:01 am

Who do you think will be larger in NYC following the crisis?
 
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STT757
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:12 am

The EWR hub for PeoplExpress, Continental and United has been the busiest hub in the NYC market since the early Early Eighties. Delta beats the by a few dozen for 2019 and now the industry has to start back at square one.

Not much of an accomplishment for Delta. United is more impressive considering they only serve two of the region’s airports vs Delta at all three. If United we’re still at Kennedy they would still be ahead in 2019.

But alas it’s a new world.


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pezzy669
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:39 am

STT757 wrote:
The EWR hub for PeoplExpress, Continental and United has been the busiest hub in the NYC market since the early Early Eighties. Delta beats the by a few dozen for 2019 and now the industry has to start back at square one.

Not much of an accomplishment for Delta. United is more impressive considering they only serve two of the region’s airports vs Delta at all three. If United we’re still at Kennedy they would still be ahead in 2019.

But alas it’s a new world.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Not much of an accomplishment? Consider this.

1). DL has to deal with split hubs which creates less than optimal international~domestic connections. This is probably why Delta international numbers are much lower than UA because they cannot flow as many international connections through.

2). DL has only been trying to 'win NYC' or whatever their mantra was for maybe a decade or so.

Considering DL unseated a carrier with multiple decades of built in goodwill and loyalty (as you pointed out), a carrier with a single hub operation which allows for much more connection traffic to be flown over the hub and a carrier that hubs at an airport better situated to get into Manhattan. United more impressive at what - alienating customers?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:16 am

pezzy669 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
The EWR hub for PeoplExpress, Continental and United has been the busiest hub in the NYC market since the early Early Eighties. Delta beats the by a few dozen for 2019 and now the industry has to start back at square one.

Not much of an accomplishment for Delta. United is more impressive considering they only serve two of the region’s airports vs Delta at all three. If United we’re still at Kennedy they would still be ahead in 2019.

But alas it’s a new world.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Not much of an accomplishment? Consider this.

1). DL has to deal with split hubs which creates less than optimal international~domestic connections. This is probably why Delta international numbers are much lower than UA because they cannot flow as many international connections through.

2). DL has only been trying to 'win NYC' or whatever their mantra was for maybe a decade or so.

Considering DL unseated a carrier with multiple decades of built in goodwill and loyalty (as you pointed out), a carrier with a single hub operation which allows for much more connection traffic to be flown over the hub and a carrier that hubs at an airport better situated to get into Manhattan. United more impressive at what - alienating customers?

Well UA has been at 21 flights per day into NYC for a couple weeks now.
When wasn't America great?


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ASFlyer
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:24 am

this whole post is dumb. Nobody is winning anything right now. Using statistics cultivated at a time of complete and utter disarray for the entire industry is a little desperate.
 
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STT757
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DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:28 am

Will Delta declare bankruptcy and screw local governments and investors who bank rolled their multi Billion dollar expansion projects in LAX, LGA and JFK. They screwed Massport with Terminal A at Logan during their last bankruptcy.

Even rosy scenarios for recovery don’t have air traffic levels returning to 2019 levels until mid to late decade. Their finance deals to pay for the expansion projects at these airports did not foresee air travel disappearing.

It’s been widely reported that Delta has lost money for Many years in the New York market as they tried to build up market share. Only recently did their operation start earning returns in the market, now combining depressed traffic due to virus fears and the economic fallout combined with all the new debt they need to service with less Passenger revenue means their New York operation is going to lose money for many years to come.

I don’t see what they can do without declaring bankruptcy.


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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:29 am

A few people on a.net still don't get how much the airlines are struggling and will struggle financially. No airline cares about market share right now or prestige. It's survival mode plane and simple.

Neither delta nor united cares who is larger in NYC 2021 they will be struggling and trying to rebuild and struggling to make a profit.
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:37 am

One of the most useless threads so far... how detached does one have to be to worry about the most flights out of NYC at a time when the entire industry crumbles...
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:39 am

pezzy669 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
The EWR hub for PeoplExpress, Continental and United has been the busiest hub in the NYC market since the early Early Eighties. Delta beats the by a few dozen for 2019 and now the industry has to start back at square one.

Not much of an accomplishment for Delta. United is more impressive considering they only serve two of the region’s airports vs Delta at all three. If United we’re still at Kennedy they would still be ahead in 2019.

But alas it’s a new world.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Not much of an accomplishment? Consider this.

1). DL has to deal with split hubs which creates less than optimal international~domestic connections. This is probably why Delta international numbers are much lower than UA because they cannot flow as many international connections through.

2). DL has only been trying to 'win NYC' or whatever their mantra was for maybe a decade or so.

Considering DL unseated a carrier with multiple decades of built in goodwill and loyalty (as you pointed out), a carrier with a single hub operation which allows for much more connection traffic to be flown over the hub and a carrier that hubs at an airport better situated to get into Manhattan. United more impressive at what - alienating customers?


As I put down the smallest violin I could find to play strings for Delta, first and foremost, this topic and thread is idiotic. No one is flying. Capacity has been slashed 90%. NY remains the epicenter of the COVID19 outbreak in the US. But, a closer look at Delta....They have spent $1bn to "win New York" since they exited Bankruptcy in 2007 and the NYC operation they built pre-COVID, impressive as it is, was a loss-leader until 2014. As for the split hub hampering DL's ability to flow connections, that's completely false. The NYC market was never about connections. It is overwhelmingly O&D. So, DL can live with LGA/JFK operation as it is. UA has also de-emphasized connections at EWR moving traffic to IAD for that on the East Coast. That's why EWR has been drawn down as much as it has temporarily by UA. O&D demand is beyond record lows.

UA and DL have been at ties tied for #1 in the NY Area market, and at other times, DL has passed UA, and vice versa. Really don't see why this matters. NYC is the largest aviation market in the country and one of the largest in the world. It's natural for 2, let along 4 airlines, to share the pie.

This entire topic thread is idiotic.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:40 am

Westerwaelder wrote:
One of the most useless threads so far... how detached does one have to be to worry about the most flights out of NYC at a time when the entire industry crumbles...


Exactly. Well said.
 
jplatts
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:22 pm

DL also has nonstop service out of LGA to some destinations not served nonstop from EWR or JFK such as BHM, CHO, CHA, CAE, DSM, LEX, MHT, and ILM. In addition, DL is also the only airline serving BHM, CHA, DSM, LEX, and MHT nonstop from the NYC market.
 
kiowa
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:04 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
While this news might be irrelevant now since the playing field has been completely leveled DL has actually taken a lead over UA in the NYC market. UA has been the largest carrier since the merger.


Yep, you are right. It is totally irrelevant in a pandemic world.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:18 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Who do you think will be larger in NYC following the crisis?


jetBlue
 
GoSteelers
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:24 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
pezzy669 wrote:

Not much of an accomplishment? Consider this.

1). DL has to deal with split hubs which creates less than optimal international~domestic connections. This is probably why Delta international numbers are much lower than UA because they cannot flow as many international connections through.

2). DL has only been trying to 'win NYC' or whatever their mantra was for maybe a decade or so.

Considering DL unseated a carrier with multiple decades of built in goodwill and loyalty (as you pointed out), a carrier with a single hub operation which allows for much more connection traffic to be flown over the hub and a carrier that hubs at an airport better situated to get into Manhattan. United more impressive at what - alienating customers?

Well UA has been at 21 flights per day into NYC for a couple weeks now.


This post was before both airlines were majorly effected by the pandemic.
ASFlyer wrote:
this whole post is dumb. Nobody is winning anything right now. Using statistics cultivated at a time of complete and utter disarray for the entire industry is a little desperate.


This post isn’t about right now.
airportugal310 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
this whole post is dumb. Nobody is winning anything right now. Using statistics cultivated at a time of complete and utter disarray for the entire industry is a little desperate.


Agreed. But he thrives on desperation sooo...


What??
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
A few people on a.net still don't get how much the airlines are struggling and will struggle financially. No airline cares about market share right now or prestige. It's survival mode plane and simple.

Neither delta nor united cares who is larger in NYC 2021 they will be struggling and trying to rebuild and struggling to make a profit.


This was prior to the pandemic and a big accomplishment for DL that they worked many years for.
Westerwaelder wrote:
One of the most useless threads so far... how detached does one have to be to worry about the most flights out of NYC at a time when the entire industry crumbles...


Again, this was before the pandemic. Did you not read the description?
Max Q wrote:
Kind of like chump claiming he had the tallest building in NYC after 9-11


Typically tasteless and typically untrue


Except this was before the pandemic so you are comparing apples to oranges.
Cointrin330 wrote:
pezzy669 wrote:

Not much of an accomplishment? Consider this.

1). DL has to deal with split hubs which creates less than optimal international~domestic connections. This is probably why Delta international numbers are much lower than UA because they cannot flow as many international connections through.

2). DL has only been trying to 'win NYC' or whatever their mantra was for maybe a decade or so.

Considering DL unseated a carrier with multiple decades of built in goodwill and loyalty (as you pointed out), a carrier with a single hub operation which allows for much more connection traffic to be flown over the hub and a carrier that hubs at an airport better situated to get into Manhattan. United more impressive at what - alienating customers?


As I put down the smallest violin I could find to play strings for Delta, first and foremost, this topic and thread is idiotic. No one is flying. Capacity has been slashed 90%. NY remains the epicenter of the COVID19 outbreak in the US. But, a closer look at Delta....They have spent $1bn to "win New York" since they exited Bankruptcy in 2007 and the NYC operation they built pre-COVID, impressive as it is, was a loss-leader until 2014. As for the split hub hampering DL's ability to flow connections, that's completely false. The NYC market was never about connections. It is overwhelmingly O&D. So, DL can live with LGA/JFK operation as it is. UA has also de-emphasized connections at EWR moving traffic to IAD for that on the East Coast. That's why EWR has been drawn down as much as it has temporarily by UA. O&D demand is beyond record lows.

UA and DL have been at ties tied for #1 in the NY Area market, and at other times, DL has passed UA, and vice versa. Really don't see why this matters. NYC is the largest aviation market in the country and one of the largest in the world. It's natural for 2, let along 4 airlines, to share the pie.

This entire topic thread is idiotic.


This isn’t about now it’s about BEFORE the pandemic!


Okay how about this analogy. I bought a house ten years ago. Put a ton of money in it. Finally, last month, I got it on the cover of Better Homes and Gardens. Magazine came out this month. However, three weeks ago i had a tornado come though and level it. You think it matters now?
 
codc10
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:24 pm

This was not completely unforeseeable, because Delta has larger average gauge in NYC (and throughout the system) than United. UA was still running around 100-125 daily ERJ flights from EWR in 2019, compared to about 40 daily flights with 50-seat equipment from Delta. United was planning to scale up average seats per departure by increasing 70/76-seat and mainline mix while keeping the number of flights per day relatively flat. With that footprint, and only a handful of upgauges, United likely would have overtaken Delta again in short order, or at the very least, there would have been some back-and forth. The two have essentially been at parity in the region for the last few years.

The pandemic changes everything, though. Nobody knows what the future holds.
 
Pi7472000
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:32 pm

Congratulations to Delta!! Amazing they have been able to become the airline of New York. There service standards for customers was much better than UA and made them popular in NYC. Obviously right now it doesn’t matter who is the largest as we are fighting for our way of life against a virus. Flying will be down for years, but I think delta will continue to be the airline of New York as we slowly recover after a vaccine. Nice work Delta!
 
Trippe747
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:44 pm

STT757 wrote:
The EWR hub for PeoplExpress, Continental and United has been the busiest hub in the NYC market since the early Early Eighties. Delta beats the by a few dozen for 2019 and now the industry has to start back at square one.


While we're recounting the era right at the end of deregulation, let's consolidate Pan Am's JFK WorldPort into Delta as the Atlantic market was sold to them in the breakup. I'm a huge Bethune fan, but there is more to the Delta story.
"This is the most important aviation development since Lindbergh's flight. In one fell swoop, we have shrunken the earth." - Juan Trippe
 
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STT757
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:59 pm

Trippe747 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
The EWR hub for PeoplExpress, Continental and United has been the busiest hub in the NYC market since the early Early Eighties. Delta beats the by a few dozen for 2019 and now the industry has to start back at square one.


While we're recounting the era right at the end of deregulation, let's consolidate Pan Am's JFK WorldPort into Delta as the Atlantic market was sold to them in the breakup. I'm a huge Bethune fan, but there is more to the Delta story.


While truly pioneering, go back and look at some old flight schedules for Pan Am and see how many daily flights they actually were operating from Kennedy at their peak.


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Nicknuzzii
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:27 pm

For anyone claiming that this thread is stupid I am really questioning your intelligence. This is something DL has worked 10 years for but was unfortunately wiped away since. The point of the thread was to show the shift in service, not the effects the pandemic has had on air travel.
 
CaptainObvious1
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:39 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
For anyone claiming that this thread is stupid I am really questioning your intelligence. This is something DL has worked 10 years for but was unfortunately wiped away since. The point of the thread was to show the shift in service, not the effects the pandemic has had on air travel.


Questioning the intelligence of others on here? Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

There are many companies who have spent years building up their business in the corporate world only to hit a downturn and become no longer relevant. Right now we are in an adapt and pivot mode in the aviation industry. Those who are unable to do that will remain in the history books as the past performance has little right relevance now to determine the future and how airlines will change to the new market conditions.

Captain Obvious.
 
kiowa
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:40 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
this whole post is dumb. Nobody is winning anything right now. Using statistics cultivated at a time of complete and utter disarray for the entire industry is a little desperate.


yup
 
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cathay747
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:46 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
For anyone claiming that this thread is stupid I am really questioning your intelligence. This is something DL has worked 10 years for but was unfortunately wiped away since. The point of the thread was to show the shift in service, not the effects the pandemic has had on air travel.


I think I get now the point of your thread, so my apologies for my comment above; perhaps more people would have with somewhat different wording like: "DL takes traffic crown in NYC just in time for it to be wiped out" or something like that. The point being: they reach the #1 spot in the NYC area only to have that achievement turn to ashes barely a month after.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
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NWAESC
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:54 pm

^THIS^

Also: Man, people are quick to pile on on this site!
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:54 pm

CaptainObvious1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
For anyone claiming that this thread is stupid I am really questioning your intelligence. This is something DL has worked 10 years for but was unfortunately wiped away since. The point of the thread was to show the shift in service, not the effects the pandemic has had on air travel.


Questioning the intelligence of others on here? Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

There are many companies who have spent years building up their business in the corporate world only to hit a downturn and become no longer relevant. Right now we are in an adapt and pivot mode in the aviation industry. Those who are unable to do that will remain in the history books as the past performance has little right relevance now to determine the future and how airlines will change to the new market conditions.

Captain Obvious.


Yes, so if you are saying a company had a record year in 2019 they didn’t celebrate that prior to this?
 
bigb
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:02 pm

Lol, man how far A.net has fallen. We now issue crowds to air carriers in a time of crisis industry wide. No one, I repeat no one who is working in this industry world wide gives a flying **** about who flies the most flights out of a particular market right now.

We all just trying to survive one day at a time. No offense to the OP, but you obliviously don’t work in the industry otherwise you wouldn’t have made this thread.

Thread is pointless.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:05 pm

bigb wrote:
Lol, man how far A.net has fallen. We now issue crowds to air carriers in a time of crisis industry wide. No one, I repeat no one who is working in this industry world wide gives a flying **** about who flies the most flights out of a particular market right now.

We all just trying to survive one day at a time. No offense to the OP, but you obliviously don’t work in the industry otherwise you wouldn’t have made this thread.

Thread is pointless.


I don’t work in the industry nor did you read any of my posting in here about what the thread is about.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:05 pm

Mods can you please lock since the thread has gone off topic?
 
Lootess
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:05 pm

At-least JFK Terminal 2 has been mothballed for the time-being. It may never re-open too, scary thought.
 
bigb
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:09 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
bigb wrote:
Lol, man how far A.net has fallen. We now issue crowds to air carriers in a time of crisis industry wide. No one, I repeat no one who is working in this industry world wide gives a flying **** about who flies the most flights out of a particular market right now.

We all just trying to survive one day at a time. No offense to the OP, but you obliviously don’t work in the industry otherwise you wouldn’t have made this thread.

Thread is pointless.


I don’t work in the industry nor did you read any of my posting in here about what the thread is about.


You said it yourself, the news might be irrelevant. Well yeah duh. Hello, do you think folks over at Delta are even thinking about being number 1 right now in NYC......
 
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STT757
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:10 pm

This reminds me of 2001 when AA, CO and DL announces huge plans for growing in the NYC market that includes spending Billions a on new terminals.

CO’s project was the only one to be completed, AA’s remains half built and with less flights.

And DL cancelled their new terminal plans for about 16 years.


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spinotter
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:20 pm

Westerwaelder wrote:
One of the most useless threads so far... how detached does one have to be to worry about the most flights out of NYC at a time when the entire industry crumbles...


All reflections and thoughts are allowed at any time, is that not the essence of freedom of thought?
 
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spinotter
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:25 pm

NWAESC wrote:
^THIS^

Also: Man, people are quick to pile on on this site!


I agree, when you look at the response to the simple and I assume true assertion that DL now temporarily has more flights into NYC than UA, something that has never happened before and thus is noteworthy in a kind of funerary way, how quick some are to repress the newsgiving of true facts.
 
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OA412
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Re: DL takes the crown in NYC

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:26 pm

Since this thread has gone way off topic, and is just a bunch of personal attacks at this point, it will be locked.
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