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skipness1E
Posts: 4813
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:44 pm

Galwayman wrote:
I saw that article. Can't believe BA pay some CC £70k and others £28k ... The legacy fleet should have been dealt with years ago . Zero sympathy.

It’s a tiny minority and Mixed Fleet would deal with this over time. It was once a career with prospects, now intended to burn kids out while they’re young and replace them.

Perhaps you’d share your salary with us so we can decide your worth too?
 
APYu
Posts: 515
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:49 am

BAs fares haven’t really dropped though so not sure the crew are paid less as we are paying less
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
APYu
Posts: 515
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:54 am

marcelh wrote:
Westerwaelder wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Never waste a crisis to please the shareholders.


It's an international race to the bottom. And as much as we like to blame others, it is us as consumers that have got the ball rolling. Cheap, cheaper, cheapest. From clothing (now made by people barely being paid enough to live), to food (the meat industry in most places is nothing short of a disgrace) to flights. We all love a good bargain. As long as it was someone else's industries impacted we were all fine with it. Now that it has reached the airlines it's a big outrage and an injustice.

Who on here will pay an extra £50 per ticket (short haul economy) to fly BA so the crew can be paid the same?

Where does that £50 per ticket come from? And yes, I’m willing to pay some more. But unfortunately that money will Probably go to the shareholders. IMHO shareholder greed is the Anglo-Saxon cancer.


Yes, shareholders (the owners of the company) are the most important people to any private company. Not sure that’s going to change unless we move to a very different political system
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1027
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:29 am

APYu wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Westerwaelder wrote:

It's an international race to the bottom. And as much as we like to blame others, it is us as consumers that have got the ball rolling. Cheap, cheaper, cheapest. From clothing (now made by people barely being paid enough to live), to food (the meat industry in most places is nothing short of a disgrace) to flights. We all love a good bargain. As long as it was someone else's industries impacted we were all fine with it. Now that it has reached the airlines it's a big outrage and an injustice.

Who on here will pay an extra £50 per ticket (short haul economy) to fly BA so the crew can be paid the same?

Where does that £50 per ticket come from? And yes, I’m willing to pay some more. But unfortunately that money will Probably go to the shareholders. IMHO shareholder greed is the Anglo-Saxon cancer.


Yes, shareholders (the owners of the company) are the most important people to any private company. Not sure that’s going to change unless we move to a very different political system

I don’t agree we have to move to a very different political system. IMHO we should make some adjustments to prevent unwanted side effects.
 
Nightmareliner
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:30 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:07 pm

Galwayman wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
I saw that article. Can't believe BA pay some CC £70k and others £28k ... The legacy fleet should have been dealt with years ago . Zero sympathy.


It’s called seniority ....
Those people on the top bucks deserve every penny.
They’ve helped put the company where it is today, and for the past 30 years +....


Rubbish. they've been greedy, it's time to move on - I'm sure Mixed fleet crew will be glad to see the back of them -It's called greed and entitlement, sod seniority


Absolutely not. I have never once resented legacy for earning what they do. And 99% of Mixed Fleet don't either. We'd love to earn what they earn, don't get me wrong. But to say I'd / we'd love to see them out of a job? Please, grow up & have some respect rather than second guessing how people feel.

Their contracts were written when that was the market rate. That's not greed - they are paying what BA agreed to pay them once upon a time.
 
TUGMASTER
Posts: 1202
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:27 pm

Any news on you BA777FO...?
Grim rumours re: LGW 777 flight crew circulating in the press a few days ago.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:56 pm

Bear in mind that it's LHR pilots who fly the LGW 777s.
 
flyjay123
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:07 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:49 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
I saw that article. Can't believe BA pay some CC £70k and others £28k ...

. It was once a career with prospects, now intended to burn kids out while they’re young and replace them.

Perhaps you’d share your salary with us so we can decide your worth too?


How exactly do they burn the kids out while they're young?
Aren't ALL crew regulated to fly a maximum of 80 hours in any 28 days, irrespective of what contract their on. Therefore the workload can't be that different between them.

In all honesty I think 28k is more than enough pay for an average 25 hours work a week. Some only fly two 10 hour sectors once a week!
 
Thomaas
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 pm

flyjay123 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
I saw that article. Can't believe BA pay some CC £70k and others £28k ...

. It was once a career with prospects, now intended to burn kids out while they’re young and replace them.

Perhaps you’d share your salary with us so we can decide your worth too?


How exactly do they burn the kids out while they're young?
Aren't ALL crew regulated to fly a maximum of 80 hours in any 28 days, irrespective of what contract their on. Therefore the workload can't be that different between them.

In all honesty I think 28k is more than enough pay for an average 25 hours work a week. Some only fly two 10 hour sectors once a week!

Flight crew is supposed to earn you as much as full time employment, regardless of how many hours you actually fly. One does not count the long airport commutes, time on the ground before pushback, delays or layovers. Although crew members don’t spend a large amount of time actually flying, they do spend many more unpaid hours on-duty.
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:29 pm

flyjay123 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
I saw that article. Can't believe BA pay some CC £70k and others £28k ...

. It was once a career with prospects, now intended to burn kids out while they’re young and replace them.

Perhaps you’d share your salary with us so we can decide your worth too?


How exactly do they burn the kids out while they're young?
Aren't ALL crew regulated to fly a maximum of 80 hours in any 28 days, irrespective of what contract their on. Therefore the workload can't be that different between them.

In all honesty I think 28k is more than enough pay for an average 25 hours work a week. Some only fly two 10 hour sectors once a week!


There is a big difference if you fly longhaul only or mixed schedules. The limit is 900 flying hours a year but as mentioned there is a lot of time spent before and after. Proportionally that increases with shorter flights. If as a result of hour limitation you get rostered seven trips on seven days from LHR to AMS instead of one JFK nightstop, you would soon notice the difference.

And as for your remark about salary, it's a full time job. Have you ever done it? Tiredness from irregular schedules accumulates over time. Working during the day today, during the night tomorrow, back to during the day... There is a reason why nurses, policemen etc do longer shift patterns. I am not saying it's astro physics but every job is worth being paid a living wage for. I am not sure what your circumstances are and it doesn't matter, but try raising a (or more) child (ren) in London on £28k a year...
 
Opus99
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:54 pm

Apparently a deal has been reached with BA & BALPA. Details not yet revealed

https://twitter.com/headforpoints/statu ... 65664?s=21
 
Vicenza
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:16 pm

APYu wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Westerwaelder wrote:

Yes, shareholders (the owners of the company) are the most important people to any private company. Not sure that’s going to change unless we move to a very different political system


Are they really? But then, that's the problem isn't it.......because without customers shareholders are really pretty worthless in themselves.
 
mattyfitzg
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:34 pm

BA Cityflyer today confirmed closure of its Edinburgh base, working with BALPA & Unite to minimise redundancies.
 
75driver
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:02 pm

BA Pilots Accept Temp 20% Pay Cut

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:41 pm

The pilots wanted to save as many jobs as possible. This vote limits the redundancy cuts even though there will be some. It won’t be as bad with this concession. Likely one of several dominoes to fall in response to COVId repercussion.

https://www.balpa.org/Media-Centre/Pres ... -Jobs-Deal
 
a350lover
Topic Author
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:29 pm

Any inner update on the development of negotiations of new contracts for cabin crews?
I heard they were notified recently with wether new contract terms (which they were due to accept before the 17/08) or redundancies.
Will it be enough with the voluntary leaves? I hope BA crews can make it through this saving the maximum amount of jobs;)
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:40 pm

There are suggestions that the bulk of staff cuts are being made at Gatwick, suggesting that short haul is being pulled permanently. This coincides with a report about one Gatwick terminal remaining closed well into 2021.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/08/0 ... m-gatwick/
 
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mercure1
Posts: 4787
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:55 pm

Redundancy notices went out last week with over 10,000 being cut. Good news at least was that 6,000 of those were voluntary departures.

https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-10 ... t-12044454
mercure f-wtcc
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:20 pm

The figures being quoted are incorrect and BA has not confirmed a final number as yet. Many areas are still going through the process and have not communicated the outcomes to the staff in those departments.
 
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jfklganyc
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:46 pm

At the risk of sounding cruel... what is taking so long?

I know they don’t have an October 1 date like the US. International travel is down 80 plus percent. They have an almost non existent domestic network.

Isnt this the same “worst case” scenario they have been discussing for 6 months? Wouldnt it be better to stop the bleeding of cash already?
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1398
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:13 am

jfklganyc wrote:
At the risk of sounding cruel... what is taking so long?

I know they don’t have an October 1 date like the US. International travel is down 80 plus percent. They have an almost non existent domestic network.

Isnt this the same “worst case” scenario they have been discussing for 6 months? Wouldnt it be better to stop the bleeding of cash already?


In the UK, any company wanting to make 100 or more employees has to follow a a 45 day consultation process before any dismissals become effective and involve the trade unions.

Additionally, it's becoming more apparent that the longer this crisis goes on the less likely it is demand will bounce back to pre-COVID levels, so it's probably meant companies are having to change plans to recover from it as anything drawn up in April/May time probably wouldn't work now.

Finally, given the amount of bad press BA have been receiving since the Spring over the treatment of their staff, I would hazard a guess it's dawned on them that following through with mass compulsory redundancies would tarnish their brand even further, so being cynical it would be "better" for their image if many of them choose to take voluntary redundancy. Not that it makes it easier for those affected though and I feel for them. Regardless of brand damage, I doubt it will some people from flying with them though, especially those that fly exclusively BA.
 
jomur
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:48 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
At the risk of sounding cruel... what is taking so long?

I know they don’t have an October 1 date like the US. International travel is down 80 plus percent. They have an almost non existent domestic network.

Isnt this the same “worst case” scenario they have been discussing for 6 months? Wouldnt it be better to stop the bleeding of cash already?


In the UK, any company wanting to make 100 or more employees has to follow a a 45 day consultation process before any dismissals become effective and involve the trade unions.

Additionally, it's becoming more apparent that the longer this crisis goes on the less likely it is demand will bounce back to pre-COVID levels, so it's probably meant companies are having to change plans to recover from it as anything drawn up in April/May time probably wouldn't work now.

Finally, given the amount of bad press BA have been receiving since the Spring over the treatment of their staff, I would hazard a guess it's dawned on them that following through with mass compulsory redundancies would tarnish their brand even further, so being cynical it would be "better" for their image if many of them choose to take voluntary redundancy. Not that it makes it easier for those affected though and I feel for them. Regardless of brand damage, I doubt it will some people from flying with them though, especially those that fly exclusively BA.


Any bad press will be short lived. In BAs favour is the fact that passengers are generally happy with how they have handled refunds so are more likely to rebook with them later compared to how other airlines have/are handling refunds, looking at you Virgin...
 
BA777FO
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:02 am

In addition to B74741R's comprehensive reply, the cash burn due to staff hasn't been that high - many have been furloughed under a UK government scheme paying 80% of staff salaries up to £2500 per month (staff that weren't furloughed either earned in excess of that and gave up things like unpaid leave like pilots essentially being on little over 50% pay for 3 months) or were working and earning what little revenue was coming in. That support tapers away this month so the bulk of settlements will be in place for August/September onwards. The first batches of voluntary redundancies have started to leave the business.
 
jomur
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:08 am

fcogafa wrote:
There are suggestions that the bulk of staff cuts are being made at Gatwick, suggesting that short haul is being pulled permanently. This coincides with a report about one Gatwick terminal remaining closed well into 2021.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/08/0 ... m-gatwick/


I doubt shorthaul is going permanently. BA will not want to lose its slots and flying shorthaul it is easier to use them all than langhaul. Maybe they will just be outsourcing ground based jobs so they can increase and decrease number as and when required. Its so easy to make the wrong assumptions based on a few details..
 
a350lover
Topic Author
Posts: 871
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:33 pm

This is shocking:

"Fire and rehire" at BA
-57% less pay
-36 days off a year
-Forced 6 weeks unpaid leave a year
+25 increased productivity

https://twitter.com/flyingfrisian74/sta ... 22598?s=20
 
SEU
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:21 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:05 am

a350lover wrote:
This is shocking:

"Fire and rehire" at BA
-57% less pay
-36 days off a year
-Forced 6 weeks unpaid leave a year
+25 increased productivity

https://twitter.com/flyingfrisian74/sta ... 22598?s=20


By all means I am on the same side, but I think that tweet is a little bit emotional and exaggerated.

1) 57% less pay? The minimum wage is £16,000 in this country, so that means they were earning and minimum of £32-35,000 which Is very high. I doubt they have been offered minimum wage as well, so they are looking at £40,000+ which is maddness.

2) 36 less days off a year, the minimum allowed is 28 days, so they were getting 64 days a year off, with a salary of minimum £32-£35k (which is actually more like £40,000?) thats 1535 hours a year.... thats stupidly high

3) Forced 6 weeks leave, pretty rubbish to be honest, hopefully that isnt long term

4) +25% productivity, does this mean longer hours? 25% more hours per week is 46.5 hours a week? Or are they just doing 25% more when they are working?

Either way, I reckon the figures in that tweet are a little exaggerated, it doesnt change how they have been treated. Fire and rehire just shouldnt be allowed.
 
BealineV953
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:54 pm

BealineV953 wrote:
JumboMaiden wrote:
Is there a larger breakdown for redundancy numbers in other departments?
Cabin crew numbers are quoted excluding IBMs.


The Commercial team have been told that their headcount will be reduced by 33%.


As of today, 12th August:
In the Commercial team those who want to take voluntary severance have applied and are waiting to hear if they will get it. The timescales are not yet known.
In Customer Services ('over the wing') at Heathrow those who want to take severance have applied. The final discussions with the unions are taking place. People have been told that they will be told if they can have severance this week.
So, at this time the final numbers for voluntary severance for those areas is not yet know.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
mattyfitzg
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:41 pm

SEU wrote:
a350lover wrote:
This is shocking:

"Fire and rehire" at BA
-57% less pay
-36 days off a year
-Forced 6 weeks unpaid leave a year
+25 increased productivity

https://twitter.com/flyingfrisian74/sta ... 22598?s=20


By all means I am on the same side, but I think that tweet is a little bit emotional and exaggerated.

1) 57% less pay? The minimum wage is £16,000 in this country, so that means they were earning and minimum of £32-35,000 which Is very high. I doubt they have been offered minimum wage as well, so they are looking at £40,000+ which is maddness.

2) 36 less days off a year, the minimum allowed is 28 days, so they were getting 64 days a year off, with a salary of minimum £32-£35k (which is actually more like £40,000?) thats 1535 hours a year.... thats stupidly high

3) Forced 6 weeks leave, pretty rubbish to be honest, hopefully that isnt long term

4) +25% productivity, does this mean longer hours? 25% more hours per week is 46.5 hours a week? Or are they just doing 25% more when they are working?

Either way, I reckon the figures in that tweet are a little exaggerated, it doesnt change how they have been treated. Fire and rehire just shouldnt be allowed.



Think the figures are in relation to the legacy Euro Fleet and Worldwide crews coming down to the new contract which will match Mixed Fleet.
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:12 pm

Pilots agreed a deal, Terminal staff are voting on a deal, cabin crew, after refusing to negotiate are now belatedly asking for the same deal as the pilots. The unions have really messed up. What happened to the strike threat?

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/08/1 ... undancies/
https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/08/1 ... undancies/
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:24 pm

mattyfitzg wrote:
SEU wrote:
a350lover wrote:
This is shocking:

"Fire and rehire" at BA
-57% less pay
-36 days off a year
-Forced 6 weeks unpaid leave a year
+25 increased productivity

https://twitter.com/flyingfrisian74/sta ... 22598?s=20


By all means I am on the same side, but I think that tweet is a little bit emotional and exaggerated.

1) 57% less pay? The minimum wage is £16,000 in this country, so that means they were earning and minimum of £32-35,000 which Is very high. I doubt they have been offered minimum wage as well, so they are looking at £40,000+ which is maddness.

2) 36 less days off a year, the minimum allowed is 28 days, so they were getting 64 days a year off, with a salary of minimum £32-£35k (which is actually more like £40,000?) thats 1535 hours a year.... thats stupidly high

3) Forced 6 weeks leave, pretty rubbish to be honest, hopefully that isnt long term

4) +25% productivity, does this mean longer hours? 25% more hours per week is 46.5 hours a week? Or are they just doing 25% more when they are working?

Either way, I reckon the figures in that tweet are a little exaggerated, it doesnt change how they have been treated. Fire and rehire just shouldnt be allowed.



Think the figures are in relation to the legacy Euro Fleet and Worldwide crews coming down to the new contract which will match Mixed Fleet.


On the days off figure, don't forget cabin crew don't work 5 day weeks but rotating shifts. This is 36 days off the total including what they would have as weekend. Minimum allowed is not 28 days unless you count public holidays in the UK. Normal office workers tend to get 52x2 for weekends, 25 days annual leave and 8 (or so) public holidays makes 138 days off in a year. Not sure how that stacks up.

And how is £40k madness for someone having progressed in their professional career for 20 years? That compares very unfavourably with say train or tube drivers for example. Have you ever done the job to judge what it should pay?
 
GDB
Posts: 13736
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:19 pm

Guess who one of the redundant ones is?
37 years on the 22nd of this month.
After a straight 5 month furlough and only getting access to work from home on Monday.
I go end of the month, had I taken VR in 2017 I would have got over twice what will be available now.
But there are those in a worse position, I get that, I am, or was, in Engineering not crew.
And at LHR, not LGW.
 
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Revelation
Posts: 24286
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:26 pm

GDB wrote:
Guess who one of the redundant ones is?
37 years on the 22nd of this month.
After a straight 5 month furlough and only getting access to work from home on Monday.
I go end of the month, had I taken VR in 2017 I would have got over twice what will be available now.
But there are those in a worse position, I get that, I am, or was, in Engineering not crew.
And at LHR, not LGW.

I wish the best for you. One thing I'd suggest is to not look back at the earlier decision. You made your choice back then knowing what was known at the time, and not knowing that some people eating bats would plunge the world's air travel system in its deepest crisis ever. I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better. It's probably best to get out before it gets worse anyhow.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
bennett123
Posts: 9712
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:34 pm

Endorse what Revelation says.

In this world, you can only make your best decision based on the information you have available.

After that you just have to take it as it comes.

Hopefully, the next stage in your journey lies ahead. Onwards and upwards.

Expect that 37 yrs at BA will look good on your CV.
 
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PW100
Posts: 4123
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:41 pm

GDB wrote:
Guess who one of the redundant ones is?
37 years on the 22nd of this month.
After a straight 5 month furlough and only getting access to work from home on Monday.
I go end of the month, had I taken VR in 2017 I would have got over twice what will be available now.
But there are those in a worse position, I get that, I am, or was, in Engineering not crew.
And at LHR, not LGW.


Hope the positives of those 37 years triumph over the sad ending. Must have been terrific being part of the great team servicing the queen . . .



All the best.
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
GDB
Posts: 13736
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:28 pm

Thanks for the thoughts.
Contacted my TU, 37 years of dues paid after all, quickly got a call back from a shocked and infuriated rep, it seems my 5 month straight not working from home furlough, was not above board, along with lack of info (what I knew came from colleagues e-mailing me at home).
So helping the TU with colleagues filling in the gaps on that issue, sounds discriminatory after all.

For all that, it likely will not make a difference, though managers are or should be wary of not following process, everyone I know has been 'what? why you'.
But we'll give it a shot, even if it it just a parting one.
 
concordeforever
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:51 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:55 pm

fcogafa wrote:
Pilots agreed a deal, Terminal staff are voting on a deal, cabin crew, after refusing to negotiate are now belatedly asking for the same deal as the pilots. The unions have really messed up. What happened to the strike threat?

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/08/1 ... undancies/
https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/08/1 ... undancies/


The strike threat is still there and very real. Things in ground services and cargo have gotten very ugly over the last week, with staff in baggage and loading at Heathrow being called in to see managers and dismissed on the spot, lockers cleared, passes taken, and escorted off from airside. Others on their days off were emailed to say they no longer had a job.

There was a large Unite union meeting today, August 20th, and a mandate to ballot for strike action was approved, so watch this space....
 
Opus99
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:37 am

concordeforever wrote:
fcogafa wrote:
Pilots agreed a deal, Terminal staff are voting on a deal, cabin crew, after refusing to negotiate are now belatedly asking for the same deal as the pilots. The unions have really messed up. What happened to the strike threat?

https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/08/1 ... undancies/
https://www.headforpoints.com/2020/08/1 ... undancies/


The strike threat is still there and very real. Things in ground services and cargo have gotten very ugly over the last week, with staff in baggage and loading at Heathrow being called in to see managers and dismissed on the spot, lockers cleared, passes taken, and escorted off from airside. Others on their days off were emailed to say they no longer had a job.

There was a large Unite union meeting today, August 20th, and a mandate to ballot for strike action was approved, so watch this space....

BA says it’s mostly “under the wing” staff. As per baggage handlers etc
 
Johnwaynebobbet
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:01 pm

So BALPA have suspended reps due to inappropriate collaboration between them and the company....
 
redroo
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:40 pm

GDB wrote:
Guess who one of the redundant ones is?
37 years on the 22nd of this month.
After a straight 5 month furlough and only getting access to work from home on Monday.
I go end of the month, had I taken VR in 2017 I would have got over twice what will be available now.
But there are those in a worse position, I get that, I am, or was, in Engineering not crew.
And at LHR, not LGW.



Sorry to hear that mate. I wish you all the best.

I have learned so much from you over the years about Concorde.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1398
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:29 am

GDB wrote:
Guess who one of the redundant ones is?
37 years on the 22nd of this month.
After a straight 5 month furlough and only getting access to work from home on Monday.
I go end of the month, had I taken VR in 2017 I would have got over twice what will be available now.
But there are those in a worse position, I get that, I am, or was, in Engineering not crew.
And at LHR, not LGW.



Really sorry to hear this. Don’t beat yourself up over declining VR 3 years ago, nobody knew what would happen not long after that.

All the best for the future and good luck with whatever you and your union decide to do
 
jomur
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:33 am

Johnwaynebobbet wrote:
So BALPA have suspended reps due to inappropriate collaboration between them and the company....


Seems the reports are unfounded..... Probably started by Unite to start trouble in the pilots ranks to cover up their own failures.
 
JumboMaiden
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:28 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:02 pm

Sorry to hear that GDB

I'm seeing names still here (cabin crew) that should have gone and some great ones axed.
Don't know if anyone else noticed our "(acting) head of ifce" has stopped signing things "acting"...
so she seems to have scored a fat promotion.
I'm more suspicious about how this has been done (people wise) than why.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 643
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:30 pm

APYu wrote:

Yes, shareholders (the owners of the company) are the most important people to any private company. Not sure that’s going to change unless we move to a very different political system


Unfortunately this is not true despite the management of any company kept saying shareholder is the important one.

In reality, the management of the company answers to the board room, which theoretically were elected by shareholders. The board room members answers to...er...mostly pension fund managers and wall street (or canary wharf or Hong Kong Central...) analysts from investment banks. Here is the catch, many individual shareholders that could be anywhere between 2%-50% of the share holdings could not influence anyone. Only the bulk share holders that is primarily pension funds or investment firms can influence the boardroom and then management.

Now let us back to the financial reality. If the company go bust, it is the debt holders get the first cut, not the share holders. When the company makes profit or not, only the debt holders got paid, not shareholders. Are shareholders the most important people in the case of BA or those public listed companies? No. Debt holders comes first, it can influence how much interest the company has to pay thus further influence their decision making. If the debt holders like the company and buy its debt, the company get cheaper finance to do business thus makes more money through more business activities or lower interests payment. If the debt holders do not like a company and its future, it becomes risky to lend money thus the interest rate rise and the company makes less money as it has to pay more to borrow.

Get the picture?

The priority for any company is Debt Holder -- Wall Street (or Canary Wharf, or Hong Kong Central) bankers -- Pension fund / investment firm managers -- Boardroom members -- Union representatives -- Government regulatory bodies -- Management -- Major business partners -- customers -- individual share holders. Share holders are the last of any management's priority. Over half of listed company do not provide share holder return, but all debt holders are to be paid.

Shareholder first is the PR spin. And it is far far from the truth. And it is those big sharks (including bankers, pension funds, investments firms) like the company management to say as they could hide somewhere and do not take any responsibilities in case things go wrong. Yeah, blame the poor share holders who invested in the company whose vote means nothing in reality.
 
tonystan
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:47 pm

jomur wrote:
Johnwaynebobbet wrote:
So BALPA have suspended reps due to inappropriate collaboration between them and the company....


Seems the reports are unfounded..... Probably started by Unite to start trouble in the pilots ranks to cover up their own failures.


I’m afraid to disappoint but no Unite interference here. Sadly the chairman of Balpa is also resigning as a result of this scandal and the membership is about to react!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:32 am

tonystan wrote:
jomur wrote:
Johnwaynebobbet wrote:
So BALPA have suspended reps due to inappropriate collaboration between them and the company....


Seems the reports are unfounded..... Probably started by Unite to start trouble in the pilots ranks to cover up their own failures.


I’m afraid to disappoint but no Unite interference here. Sadly the chairman of Balpa is also resigning as a result of this scandal and the membership is about to react!


This is the first time I've seen Unite dragged into this, no is blaming them - it seems like the leak came from the faction on the BACC making the accusation or from a few reps on the Balpa NEC acting in cahoots with them. I have seen a few Unite members making some nasty comments about this and pilots from this deal, all unwarranted and unhelpful and thankfully just a small minority.

Bit of background: after some reps passed on the baton in ~2018 a new bunch of reps were elected. Some were "fresh blood" and some came with previous history at other airlines. The thing the new blood all had in common was a more militant mindset. This started butting heads with the more experienced and pragmatic old cohort.

The new reps seized the balance of power and ended up in a pathetic (albeit well followed) strike in 2019. The new reps, and the Gen Sec Brian Strutton, let everyone down badly. Quite frankly Strutton needs to go. The fall out is that two of the new reps, mostly responsible fot the nee direction, found their way to the NEC - working seemingly in cahoots with a few reps that stayed behind on the BACC. When Covid hit, the old guard stepped up to the plate and achieved, while not perfect and arguably gave up too many concessions, saved a lot of jobs. The new guys wanted revenge, made up unfounded claims. In suppport with their chums on the NEC the 3 "old guard" reps were suspended pending investigation for essentially doing their jobs. There is no evidence of collusion or anything untoward. This is purely Balpa internal politics and the BA membership has made their thoughts known over the past few days. Strutton and the NEC are on borrowed time.

Ultimately, there's nothing to see. A BACC election is overdue, postponed due to Covid - the new guard will be comprehensively booted out when it happens.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15195
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:35 am

BA and many other airlines around the world are likely to use the COVID-19 pandemic to achieve long term goals to permanently cut staffing, shift more to 3rd Party contractors and where have unions and laws allow it, to break them, forcing major wage and benefit cuts. We have already seen airlines like BA make permeate cuts as to aircraft, often eliminating whole models by accelerating planned retirements with basically firing staff that specialized in those models along with them. Many destinations of airlines are also likely to never return.. Of course, there is a need to make staffing cuts until any significant recovery, but it will take years, and airlines are likely to want to keep service and staffing to just below need to jack up fares to recover from massive losses, pay back loans to governments.
 
jomur
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:26 pm

tonystan wrote:
jomur wrote:
Johnwaynebobbet wrote:
So BALPA have suspended reps due to inappropriate collaboration between them and the company....


Seems the reports are unfounded..... Probably started by Unite to start trouble in the pilots ranks to cover up their own failures.


I’m afraid to disappoint but no Unite interference here. Sadly the chairman of Balpa is also resigning as a result of this scandal and the membership is about to react!


Now I never said Unite did, all I said was it was just more likely they did instead ofBA. There is no proof either did, just saying... The unions are quite able to self destruct themselves without interference.
 
GDB
Posts: 13736
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:21 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
GDB wrote:
Guess who one of the redundant ones is?
37 years on the 22nd of this month.
After a straight 5 month furlough and only getting access to work from home on Monday.
I go end of the month, had I taken VR in 2017 I would have got over twice what will be available now.
But there are those in a worse position, I get that, I am, or was, in Engineering not crew.
And at LHR, not LGW.



Really sorry to hear this. Don’t beat yourself up over declining VR 3 years ago, nobody knew what would happen not long after that.

All the best for the future and good luck with whatever you and your union decide to do


Thanks (and for all the other kind words from members), today has been busy, with consultation from my GMB Rep, what he advised and I have done, is to register for any suitable vacancies (not holding out hope there), also for any potential Job Sharing, (50/50 with another), I was working a 3 day week since 2016 on health grounds and are covered by the Disability Discrimination Act, which will be the main plank of the final task today, formally appealing.
The other being denied access to work from home, despite a laptop being made available, meaning an almost unique 5 month furlough.

The other motivation came from my Team Leader calling to express their anger and dismay at my being made redundant, as well as concern that my knowledge and connections with vendors and regulators will go with me.
When I also found out that I had been needed at times in the last 5 months.
So I was urged to 'not go without a fight'.

However, this is all a very long shot, there will be many others with equal if not greater grounds to appeal than me probably.
I mentioned money with respect to choices in 2017, the real one though was 'what else would I do?' In a job market that after my entire adult life at BA would be utterly alien.
Now here we are, with a massive spike in unemployment due nationally when the support for companies runs out, though in this respect, it's those younger than me, especially those due to start in the workplace, I feel most sorry for.
 
tonystan
Posts: 1704
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: BA could make up to 12,000 employees redundant

Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:12 pm

jomur wrote:
tonystan wrote:
jomur wrote:

Seems the reports are unfounded..... Probably started by Unite to start trouble in the pilots ranks to cover up their own failures.


I’m afraid to disappoint but no Unite interference here. Sadly the chairman of Balpa is also resigning as a result of this scandal and the membership is about to react!


Now I never said Unite did, all I said was it was just more likely they did instead ofBA. There is no proof either did, just saying... The unions are quite able to self destruct themselves without interference.


You said “probably started by unite...” and then said “now I never said Unite did”!

I’m so utterly confused by your mixed messages!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
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