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VTCIE
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Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:45 pm

Today I came across a post in a design blog saying that BW has unveiled a new livery. There I was surprised to find it applied only to the ATR 72 and not the 737. On searching (since A.net does not have anything on it), my suspicions were confirmed. The BW website specifically states ‘our new ATR 72 livery’, and this site says that BW is likely to retire its 737 fleet and replace it with newer planes, subject to the MAX crisis being sorted out.

This, to me, is simply baffling. If you do not put your new livery on your largest aircraft, you might as well not operate the 737 at all. This is a real pity since I find the livery very eye-catching and colourful, appropriate for the Caribbean.

Pictures of BW’s new ATR 72, 9Y-TTI, in the new colours.

Image

Image
 
Brickell305
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:00 pm

New livery was discussed briefly here before it got overshadowed by COVID-related news: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437879&hilit=caribbean&start=100#p22073199
 
OB1504
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:18 pm

They couldn't even be bothered to fully paint a lot of their 737s.

It's an improvement over the current livery but I wish they hadn't gone with a white base again.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:27 pm

I'm not sure why it's surprising they aren't spending the money to paint a fleet of leased planes they already have an equal amount of orders to replace with.
 
MetalStan
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:54 pm

When you have a fleet of aging aircraft, it's no wonder why you won't put a new livery on it.

The current B737 fleet in Caribbean Airlines are of the 800 series, and were due to be replaced any way.
 
MetalStan
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:58 pm

When you have bunch of aging aircraft, it's no wonder why you won't put a new livery in them.

All of Caribbean Airlines' B737's are of the 800 NG model.
They were going to replace them all with the B737 MAX before the MAX crisis occured.
 
caribny
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:45 pm

The 737 800s should have begun to be gradually phased out, starting late last year. Spending money painting planes, at a time when cash is tight doesnt seem to be a good idea. We dont know how the MAX issue will end up, or what BW will then do, but until this decision is made the 737s should remain as they are. Who knows how markets will emerge in the post Covid 19 era.
 
LimaFoxTango
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:59 pm

BW were to take delivery of 737 Max 8's from late 2019. That plan has been on hold since the groundings and now Covid-19. I believe the plan was to debut the Max 8's in the new livery. With that no longer the case, they started with the ATR's.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
asuflyer
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:29 pm

The planes are only painted white and they have decals over them
 
Caymanair
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:04 am

For what it's worth (exactly $0...), I think the new livery looks incomplete and very bland. I can see the colours and overall branding being really positive but it just hasn't translated to an attractive look at all.

As mentioned above, the livery was supposed to debut on their new jets, and I think it would likely be much more flattering on them than the ATR!
 
MetalStan
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:08 am

Caymanair wrote:
For what it's worth (exactly $0...), I think the new livery looks incomplete and very bland. I can see the colours and overall branding being really positive but it just hasn't translated to an attractive look at all.

As mentioned above, the livery was supposed to debut on their new jets, and I think it would likely be much more flattering on them than the ATR!


To be fair, it is a major step up from the essentially Eurowhite livery they had.
 
baje427
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:24 am

This wont be a priority for a while the survival of Caribbean Airlines will be. The oil market has crashed and CAL's primary US and Canadian markets are closed. I suspect at most they will need 4 737's for the foreseeable future.
 
caribny
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:09 am

baje427 wrote:
This wont be a priority for a while the survival of Caribbean Airlines will be. The oil market has crashed and CAL's primary US and Canadian markets are closed. I suspect at most they will need 4 737's for the foreseeable future.



That's a bit drastic. They dump Jamaica North America (at least for the time being) but will keep their POS/GEO flights for now. They will once again have a monopoly on the JFK GEO route and may do better on the POS North American routes than you might think. I think they are good for a daily MIA POS, 2 daily JFK POS, daily JFK GEO and a daily YYZ POS GEO. and this in addition to the daily KIN POS flights. Less sure about their FLL/MCO POS routes. Nothing is happening until the summer. Likely that T&T mightn't trust the foreign carriers to provide adequate service.

Reduced size US carriers will see more focus on the big markets like DR, PR, Jamaica and The Bahamas. It is not totally beyond thinking that some of the smaller islands might lose loads of major carrier service and might wish that BW can help out. Especially true for the islands that have to pay to get service. I think that GND and SKB have to be very worried.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:57 pm

VTCIE wrote:
Today I came across a post in a design blog saying that BW has unveiled a new livery. There I was surprised to find it applied only to the ATR 72 and not the 737. On searching (since A.net does not have anything on it), my suspicions were confirmed. The BW website specifically states ‘our new ATR 72 livery’, and this site says that BW is likely to retire its 737 fleet and replace it with newer planes, subject to the MAX crisis being sorted out.

This, to me, is simply baffling. If you do not put your new livery on your largest aircraft, you might as well not operate the 737 at all. This is a real pity since I find the livery very eye-catching and colourful, appropriate for the Caribbean.

Pictures of BW’s new ATR 72, 9Y-TTI, in the new colours.


The current 738's are on their way out of the fleet when the MAX issues are ironed out. CAL was suppose to received their initial MAX a/c last November, but everyone knows what is going on with the aircraft, so they delayed the new logo and then introduced it on the ATR fleet which will be there for a long time.
It is unknown if one of the 738 will indeed carry the new logo at this time, but given the circumstances I doubt they will paint them.
All ah we is one family
 
ryby92
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:31 pm

caribny wrote:
baje427 wrote:
This wont be a priority for a while the survival of Caribbean Airlines will be. The oil market has crashed and CAL's primary US and Canadian markets are closed. I suspect at most they will need 4 737's for the foreseeable future.



That's a bit drastic. They dump Jamaica North America (at least for the time being) but will keep their POS/GEO flights for now. They will once again have a monopoly on the JFK GEO route and may do better on the POS North American routes than you might think. I think they are good for a daily MIA POS, 2 daily JFK POS, daily JFK GEO and a daily YYZ POS GEO. and this in addition to the daily KIN POS flights. Less sure about their FLL/MCO POS routes. Nothing is happening until the summer. Likely that T&T mightn't trust the foreign carriers to provide adequate service.

Reduced size US carriers will see more focus on the big markets like DR, PR, Jamaica and The Bahamas. It is not totally beyond thinking that some of the smaller islands might lose loads of major carrier service and might wish that BW can help out. Especially true for the islands that have to pay to get service. I think that GND and SKB have to be very worried.


" Likely that T&T mightn't trust the foreign carriers to provide adequate service."

If T&T open their airport it cannot only be to BW alone. That I suspect would be in violation of air services agreement. There will be no legal reason to stop AA, UA or B6 from resuming flights to T&T and allow only BW to operate. if that were the case I suspect that the USA can retaliate in like fashion. if the three US carriers decided they are not coming back that is another story.

Regarding your comment on SKB and GND even if BW were to the USA it would be strictly VFR only as they do not cater to US originating leisure traffic.
 
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Polot
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:35 pm

ryby92 wrote:
caribny wrote:
baje427 wrote:
This wont be a priority for a while the survival of Caribbean Airlines will be. The oil market has crashed and CAL's primary US and Canadian markets are closed. I suspect at most they will need 4 737's for the foreseeable future.



That's a bit drastic. They dump Jamaica North America (at least for the time being) but will keep their POS/GEO flights for now. They will once again have a monopoly on the JFK GEO route and may do better on the POS North American routes than you might think. I think they are good for a daily MIA POS, 2 daily JFK POS, daily JFK GEO and a daily YYZ POS GEO. and this in addition to the daily KIN POS flights. Less sure about their FLL/MCO POS routes. Nothing is happening until the summer. Likely that T&T mightn't trust the foreign carriers to provide adequate service.

Reduced size US carriers will see more focus on the big markets like DR, PR, Jamaica and The Bahamas. It is not totally beyond thinking that some of the smaller islands might lose loads of major carrier service and might wish that BW can help out. Especially true for the islands that have to pay to get service. I think that GND and SKB have to be very worried.


" Likely that T&T mightn't trust the foreign carriers to provide adequate service."

If T&T open their airport it cannot only be to BW alone. That I suspect would be in violation of air services agreement. There will be no legal reason to stop AA, UA or B6 from resuming flights to T&T and allow only BW to operate. if that were the case I suspect that the USA can retaliate in like fashion. if the three US carriers decided they are not coming back that is another story.

Regarding your comment on SKB and GND even if BW were to the USA it would be strictly VFR only as they do not cater to US originating leisure traffic.

I don’t think he was suggesting that T&T deny foreign carriers access, but rather foreign carriers will not be interested in flying to T&T due to reduce demand. That said in that scenario BW would also be struggling to fill 737s at those smaller islands and would probably just stick with ATRs...
 
caribny
Posts: 475
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:44 pm

ryby92 wrote:
caribny wrote:
baje427 wrote:
This wont be a priority for a while the survival of Caribbean Airlines will be. The oil market has crashed and CAL's primary US and Canadian markets are closed. I suspect at most they will need 4 737's for the foreseeable future.



That's a bit drastic. They dump Jamaica North America (at least for the time being) but will keep their POS/GEO flights for now. They will once again have a monopoly on the JFK GEO route and may do better on the POS North American routes than you might think. I think they are good for a daily MIA POS, 2 daily JFK POS, daily JFK GEO and a daily YYZ POS GEO. and this in addition to the daily KIN POS flights. Less sure about their FLL/MCO POS routes. Nothing is happening until the summer. Likely that T&T mightn't trust the foreign carriers to provide adequate service.

Reduced size US carriers will see more focus on the big markets like DR, PR, Jamaica and The Bahamas. It is not totally beyond thinking that some of the smaller islands might lose loads of major carrier service and might wish that BW can help out. Especially true for the islands that have to pay to get service. I think that GND and SKB have to be very worried.


" Likely that T&T mightn't trust the foreign carriers to provide adequate service."

If T&T open their airport it cannot only be to BW alone. That I suspect would be in violation of air services agreement. There will be no legal reason to stop AA, UA or B6 from resuming flights to T&T and allow only BW to operate. if that were the case I suspect that the USA can retaliate in like fashion. if the three US carriers decided they are not coming back that is another story.

Regarding your comment on SKB and GND even if BW were to the USA it would be strictly VFR only as they do not cater to US originating leisure traffic.



My statement wasn't about T&T stopping foreign carriers. Indeed it isnt even in their interests to do that. It is the fact that foreign carriers will be reducing their size, and routes served and maybe T&T doesnt want to risk them cutting service to the bone and then charging high prices. POS isnt high on the radar when it comes to US carriers and the last thing they will want is AA running just a daily flight and then charging $1,000. BW has a huge share of the POS market, and so T&T will definitely support them as a strategic move. Otherwise they risk a double whammy, no BW and limited service by AA and B6.

As to GND they already received service from BW when they needed it and indeed during peak periods they still get it. If B6 drops GND from its JFK you bet that BW will be back. They will need the business.

SKB is another story but they might figure that a tourist will sooner fly JFK SKB nonstop than have to use LIAT/Winair via ANU or SXM. AA might return with very inadequate service from MIA with poor connectivity to NYC. DL and UA aren't returning to most of the Eastern Caribbean.

The point is that at a time when these islands will be begging for US tourists no one wants to go back to LIAT. We dont even know what is going to happen to them.
 
caribny
Posts: 475
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:12 pm

Also if some of the smaller islands need service from BW on the JFK it will be a stop over on an existing JFK route. That is how SVD is served as well as GND during the peak periods. It is easy to see GND back on the JFK GND full time if B6 drops them. So GND only needs to fill seats that POS cannot.
 
OB1504
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Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:35 pm

caribny wrote:
AA might return with very inadequate service from MIA with poor connectivity to NYC.


I don't think "inadequate" is the right word. If the market can't support anything else anymore, then the service is by definition sufficient.
 
caribny
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Airlines’ new livery: only for ATRs?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:40 am

OB1504 wrote:
caribny wrote:
AA might return with very inadequate service from MIA with poor connectivity to NYC.


I don't think "inadequate" is the right word. If the market can't support anything else anymore, then the service is by definition sufficient.



What is inadequate for SKB might be quite adequate for AA. If AA decides that their planes are best deployed elsewhere and that they can get away with charging $1,000 that is what they will do. That doesnt mean that this is good for SKB, as clearly high fares will scare away travel.

These smaller islands have limited bargaining choice and the airlines might well feel that they are lucky to get service at all. I expect that AA will once again regain its monopoly into that island as I doubt that DL or UA will be back.

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