Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
QF7
Topic Author
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:42 pm

DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:25 am

A few times over the last several days I have looked at DFW on PlaneFinder or FlightAware and it appears that all landings and takeoffs have been on the 17s/35s.

While it makes sense to me that with reduced traffic they’d shut down one side I am curious why they’d choose the east side vs. the west.

Yes, you have the AA traffic using the A and C terminals, but you still have the AA regionals using B, and of course D is still active. FedEx and UPS should be about evenly split. But all the heavy cargo operators use the west side but have long taxis to get to/from the east runways.

So, am I correct in my observation, and if so, why east vs. west?
QF7
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:30 am

because more traffic originates on the east side terminals
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1901
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:54 am

The west control tower is being kept as a back up in case the east control tower becomes contaminated or infected.

To avoid a repeat of Las Vegas.

The center control tower is serving as the back up to the tracon, in case the tracon needs to get disinfected.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
747fan
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:02 am

The east side has more capacity. 3 parallel runways versus 2 on the west side. 17L/35R and 17C/35C for arrivals, 17R/35L for departures.
To add to this, I'll mention that I live several miles south of the 18's/36's in Euless and for the most part its been almost eerily quiet compared to normal for the last month or so. From what I've noticed, the west runways have only been used by a select few departing freighters that park on the west cargo ramp (I assume DFW Ground is handling these guys). Basically China Cargo 744F's, EVA 777F's, etc to ANC and UPS westbounds in the afternoon during their mini-wave.
However, I'll still been getting some westbound traffic on the RNAV departures headed toward BPARK from 17R occasionally overflying my place when DFW is on south flow.
If DFW is operating on north flow, I now get zero traffic over my area. So even those freighters don't seem to be using the 18's/36's for arrivals.
 
deltaffindfw
Posts: 1520
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:23 pm

Nothing to do with capacity or terminals on the east side.

It's the FAA and COVID: https://www.dfwairport.com/aircraftnois ... uBRAijqeVg

The FAA has advised DFW Airport it is taking steps nationally to ensure the health and safety of employees while also ensuring continuity of operations is maintained to support response to the COVID-19 pandemic. At DFW the FAA will be transitioning to a reduced staffing schedule and operating solely out of FAA’s East Tower to ensure essential air service is maintained. As a result, the majority of air traffic will be directed to utilize the airport’s east runway complex.

By moving to a single tower, the West Tower will be reserved should an evacuation of the East Tower be required. This plan is intended to limit the number of air traffic controllers working in the same building while still maintaining DFW Airport operations as well as other operations in the Metroplex.
 
DFW17L
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:43 pm

I am surprised at what appears to be a heavier than expected use of the 17s/35s. However, when I am working in the yard or look out the window to the west, I still see arrivals/departures on the 18s/36s. I live to the NE of DFW in Coppell.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8612
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:51 pm

DFW has 3 FAA towers? WOW

Any other airports have more than one?

When I was there about October 2018...I saw plenty of West cargo stuff land on the east side. Also, 3 BA 747s,...they all used the East side. This was very disappointing being over @ Founders Plaza.


So Founders Plaza is currently no good? Is it even open?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
DFW17L
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:31 pm

727LOVER wrote:
...So Founders Plaza is currently no good? Is it even open?


Yep, 7 - 7. But without QF 7 since 3/25, and AA cutting frequency from ~1,000 flights to ~300 flights per day, it's not much fun. :(

Image
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2692
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:29 pm

DFW17L wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
...So Founders Plaza is currently no good? Is it even open?


Yep, 7 - 7. But without QF 7 since 3/25, and AA cutting frequency from ~1,000 flights to ~300 flights per day, it's not much fun. :(

Image


Great place to catch a nap, but that's about it right now :)
 
747fan
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:46 pm

Update: DFW is actually using the 18's this morning. Hearing numerous departures flying over my place in Euless. A quick check of Flightradar24 just confirmed this.
Curious to see if this will continue or is just a temporary occurrence.
 
DFW17L
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:04 pm

About 20 minutes ago, a 787 (not AA) was on final 17L, then at the outer marker, they turned west and cut across the 17s and 18s. Very strange.
 
sdh9
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:08 pm

727LOVER wrote:
DFW has 3 FAA towers? WOW

Any other airports have more than one?


ORD has 3 as well.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:11 pm

This was happening even 3 weeks ago, I connected in DFW and on departure we were piled into 3 rows on taxi and waited almost 35 minutes to depart as I counted easily 25 aircraft in front of us. With 5-20 people on airplanes back then I though that was a great use of extra fuel.
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4 F9
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:33 pm

Since (generally speaking and under normal operations) the choice to depart on the east side vs west side is based on the destination (east side for departures going eastbound and west side for west bound departures) -- wouldn't the fact that most of DFW's destinations are eastbound be the reason they chose to keep east open vs. west?

AA mainline (again generally and under normal operations) even seems to allocate gates based on direction of destination as most domestic departures from D and B are westbound. A big exception to this would be inbound international aircraft that are destined for domestic destinations that are east bound.
 
QF7
Topic Author
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:42 pm

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:08 pm

Very interesting responses. Thanks.

Just one thing. Terminal B (west side) is almost exclusively AA regional. Are the Terminal E (east side) gates sufficient to equalize the east-bound vs. west-bound departures to smaller markets?
QF7
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1071
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:16 pm

727LOVER wrote:
When I was there about October 2018...I saw plenty of West cargo stuff land on the east side. Also, 3 BA 747s,...they all used the East side. This was very disappointing being over @ Founders Plaza.

So Founders Plaza is currently no good? Is it even open?


Was down there around 10:30 this morning. Pretty much all AA narrowbodies and regionals, though an Eva Air Cargo 777 appeared to have gone around prior to landing on their second attempt. Doesn't really seem worth doing down there for now.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
deltaffindfw
Posts: 1520
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:29 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Since (generally speaking and under normal operations) the choice to depart on the east side vs west side is based on the destination (east side for departures going eastbound and west side for west bound departures) -- wouldn't the fact that most of DFW's destinations are eastbound be the reason they chose to keep east open vs. west?

AA mainline (again generally and under normal operations) even seems to allocate gates based on direction of destination as most domestic departures from D and B are westbound. A big exception to this would be inbound international aircraft that are destined for domestic destinations that are east bound.


Most AA destinations are Eastbound? Do you happen know where DFW is?

Also, operations does not generally allocate based on direction. There is no way that mainline could operate almost all westbound domestic traffic from the few narrowbody gates that D has (especially when all the 777s and 787s are there. Yes, there are a few gates in lower B, but that's definitely not enough.

For regional, all CR9/E175s are in B - regardless of destination. And all E140/145/CR7 are in E - regardless of destination.
 
747fan
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:40 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:57 pm

QF7 wrote:
Very interesting responses. Thanks.

Just one thing. Terminal B (west side) is almost exclusively AA regional. Are the Terminal E (east side) gates sufficient to equalize the east-bound vs. west-bound departures to smaller markets?


In terms of AA ops, Terminal E (high E gates and the satellite) is for American Eagle flights operated Skywest CR7's and Envoy E-140/145's. Terminal B handles the Envoy E-175's and Mesa CR9's, with AA mainline now using B5-B12.

AA's gate assignments don't have anything to do with eastbounds parked on the east side or westbounds parked on the west side. Its based on operational need, much of it having to do with which airplanes fit on certain gates, with widebodies only being able to park on certain gates in Terminal A (A21/23/24/34) and Terminal D, and only Terminal D being able to handle international arrivals (of course there's very few widebody and/or international flights operating right now). Then the gaps are filled in once those restrictions are met. Connecting flows are optimized, so for example a 7AM flight to LAX that has 20 passengers connecting from a redeye from GRU will be gated in D if possible.
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Fri May 01, 2020 4:06 am

deltaffindfw wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Since (generally speaking and under normal operations) the choice to depart on the east side vs west side is based on the destination (east side for departures going eastbound and west side for west bound departures) -- wouldn't the fact that most of DFW's destinations are eastbound be the reason they chose to keep east open vs. west?

AA mainline (again generally and under normal operations) even seems to allocate gates based on direction of destination as most domestic departures from D and B are westbound. A big exception to this would be inbound international aircraft that are destined for domestic destinations that are east bound.


Most AA destinations are Eastbound? Do you happen know where DFW is?

Also, operations does not generally allocate based on direction. There is no way that mainline could operate almost all westbound domestic traffic from the few narrowbody gates that D has (especially when all the 777s and 787s are there. Yes, there are a few gates in lower B, but that's definitely not enough.

For regional, all CR9/E175s are in B - regardless of destination. And all E140/145/CR7 are in E - regardless of destination.


Yes, I know where it is; I live in Dallas. Although we are centrally located, I was under the impression that (under normal operations) that there are more domestic flights eastbound than westbound because I thought that there’s more population, airports, and traffic demand east of us than west of us. Another reason I assumed this is that the runways and taxiways always seem busier than the westside. Is none of this the case?

Also, regarding the gate allocation, (and I was just referring to mainline not Eagle) of course there’s not enough mainline gates on the westside to accommodate all westbound flights. I wasn’t trying to say that this is the sole decision of gate allocation. Rather, it’s just been my observation that ever since AA moved into the expanded then terminal 2W in the 90s and then when D opened, and now that they’re back in low B, that the majority of domestic flights on the westside gates are heading westbound (not necessarily that all westbound flights are allocated to westside gates but that they utilize them in this manner as much as they can) . I just assumed that this was for operational efficiency to minimize trips across the bridges since westbound flight typically depart from the westside.
Again, this is all anecdotal, so I could be completely off base. These are just my observations after decades of heavy flying out of DFW.
 
usairways787
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:42 pm

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Fri May 01, 2020 8:12 am

QF7 wrote:
Very interesting responses. Thanks.

Just one thing. Terminal B (west side) is almost exclusively AA regional. Are the Terminal E (east side) gates sufficient to equalize the east-bound vs. west-bound departures to smaller markets?


We closed the mainline gates and gave them back to eagle on the low Bs for the time being. Not enough mainline demand.
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Fri May 01, 2020 1:51 pm

usairways787 wrote:
QF7 wrote:
Very interesting responses. Thanks.

Just one thing. Terminal B (west side) is almost exclusively AA regional. Are the Terminal E (east side) gates sufficient to equalize the east-bound vs. west-bound departures to smaller markets?


We closed the mainline gates and gave them back to eagle on the low Bs for the time being. Not enough mainline demand.


No big surprise there. Any other consolidation of gates in the other terminals, or are they still using all of A,C, and their portion of D?
 
usairways787
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:42 pm

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Mon May 04, 2020 8:16 am

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
usairways787 wrote:
QF7 wrote:
Very interesting responses. Thanks.

Just one thing. Terminal B (west side) is almost exclusively AA regional. Are the Terminal E (east side) gates sufficient to equalize the east-bound vs. west-bound departures to smaller markets?


We closed the mainline gates and gave them back to eagle on the low Bs for the time being. Not enough mainline demand.


No big surprise there. Any other consolidation of gates in the other terminals, or are they still using all of A,C, and their portion of D?


High C's are closed. All other portions are continuing to be run normally.
 
User avatar
pilotkev1
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:53 pm

Re: DFW Operating Only East Side?

Mon May 04, 2020 9:21 am

The West ATCT has been operating normally in the afternoons until about 1800 or 1900L. From that point East Tower assumes West Towers control of traffic on the West side of the airport.

Departures and Arrivals requesting 18L/36R 18R/36L outside of West ATCT hours of operation are being told takeoff/landing 'at your own risk' and regular runway inspections are not being carried out. This normally persuades the requesting traffic to accept 17R/35L 17C/35C or 17L/35R with exception of the occasional Cowboy flight crew.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ajs123uk, Asiaflyer, Baidu [Spider], David_itl, Gemuser, Google Adsense [Bot], HA_DC9, Iksu, Imperialhill, indywa, Jack, KIRFlyer, MD80MKE, mke717spotter, MoKa777, N649DL, qf789, sabenapilot, skyymarc, Toinou and 240 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos