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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 5:51 am

Fiji Airways is planning on doing a repatriation flight to SYD this Friday

https://twitter.com/FijiAirways/status/ ... 21568?s=20
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 5:56 am

Qantas planning on resuming 50% of domestic flights in July

https://twitter.com/ironsider/status/12 ... 72065?s=20

Also Qantas has today announced their "Fly Well" program which will be introduced to all Qantas and Jetstar flights from 12 June 20. Includes giving all passengers masks on board aircraft and the use of hand sanitiser in lounges and departure gates

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... ns-easing/
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An767
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 6:11 am

There is no real reason that intra state travel is not allowed , especially here in Queensland. The only thing stopping it is a premier with an agenda. With a total of 13 cases all concentrated in the south east corner , and only 3 of them in hospital, the delay until September is bordering in stupidity. It is also a breach in the Australian constitution, but they got away with it at the height of the pandemic.
Airlines could be offering flights to tourist spots from Brisbane and regional areas pushing domestic travel. Currently from my local airport Emerald , we have 2 flights a day to Brisbane 1 by both carrier, don't bother using them as the fares are through the roof at the moment.

AN767
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a19901213
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 6:45 am

An767 wrote:
There is no real reason that intra state travel is not allowed , especially here in Queensland. The only thing stopping it is a premier with an agenda. With a total of 13 cases all concentrated in the south east corner , and only 3 of them in hospital, the delay until September is bordering in stupidity. It is also a breach in the Australian constitution, but they got away with it at the height of the pandemic.
Airlines could be offering flights to tourist spots from Brisbane and regional areas pushing domestic travel. Currently from my local airport Emerald , we have 2 flights a day to Brisbane 1 by both carrier, don't bother using them as the fares are through the roof at the moment.

AN767


As much as I believe the border closure is necessary for the time being, I absolutely have no idea how they come up with the time frame of September.

If we keep things under control and continue to see the decline in cases I don’t see why not reopen the border earlier as long as it’s safe to do so. (Maybe July or whatever timeframe that a REAL EXPERT said so)

Someone might want to remind the QLD premier that we’re all part of Australia and stop talking as if QLD is an independent country.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 6:48 am

An767 wrote:
There is no real reason that intra state travel is not allowed , especially here in Queensland. The only thing stopping it is a premier with an agenda. With a total of 13 cases all concentrated in the south east corner , and only 3 of them in hospital, the delay until September is bordering in stupidity. It is also a breach in the Australian constitution, but they got away with it at the height of the pandemic.
Airlines could be offering flights to tourist spots from Brisbane and regional areas pushing domestic travel. Currently from my local airport Emerald , we have 2 flights a day to Brisbane 1 by both carrier, don't bother using them as the fares are through the roof at the moment.

AN767

Intrastate is allowed but the volumes just aren't enough for the airlines or the hotels to make money. The population of Victoria, NSW and ACT is 57% of the national population. Excluding them from a service within QLD such as BNE-CNS or BNE-HTI destroys the economics.

It is a bit hard to work out what the Qld premier is waiting for. Even her CHO admits they can't completely eliminate the virus but we can manage it through test and trace. This is not going to change between now and September.
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Deano969
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 7:01 am

a19901213 wrote:
An767 wrote:
There is no real reason that intra state travel is not allowed , especially here in Queensland. The only thing stopping it is a premier with an agenda. With a total of 13 cases all concentrated in the south east corner , and only 3 of them in hospital, the delay until September is bordering in stupidity. It is also a breach in the Australian constitution, but they got away with it at the height of the pandemic.
Airlines could be offering flights to tourist spots from Brisbane and regional areas pushing domestic travel. Currently from my local airport Emerald , we have 2 flights a day to Brisbane 1 by both carrier, don't bother using them as the fares are through the roof at the moment.

AN767


As much as I believe the border closure is necessary for the time being, I absolutely have no idea how they come up with the time frame of September.

If we keep things under control and continue to see the decline in cases I don’t see why not reopen the border earlier as long as it’s safe to do so. (Maybe July or whatever timeframe that a REAL EXPERT said so)

Someone might want to remind the QLD premier that we’re all part of Australia and stop talking as if QLD is an independent country.


I think that with now 12 active cases in Queensland, we are waiting for states like N.S.W. to show similar numbers before we open our borders to this risk CV-19 being imported from other states or for that matter from overseas
Countries such as N.Z. most Pacific Island nations, Korea, Vietnam and Thailand could be considered safe for travel very soon
On the other hand U.S, Russia, Brazil and most of Europe for example may be years away, if ever....
No vaccine has ever been created for ANY corona virus ever and with countries like the U.S. looking down the barrel of 100% infections and some people having the virus reoccur, will a country like Australia, who may totally eliminate the virus, ever open their borders to them again for fear of bringing the virus to a vulnerable population ?
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 7:23 am

Deano969 wrote:

I think that with now 12 active cases in Queensland, we are waiting for states like N.S.W. to show similar numbers before we open our borders to this risk CV-19 being imported from other states or for that matter from overseas
Countries such as N.Z. most Pacific Island nations, Korea, Vietnam and Thailand could be considered safe for travel very soon


No chance International will open up while states are still having closed borders and imposing quarantine etc. Got to get our own house in order first.
 
Flyingsottsman
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 7:54 am

An767 wrote:
There is no real reason that intra state travel is not allowed , especially here in Queensland. The only thing stopping it is a premier with an agenda. With a total of 13 cases all concentrated in the south east corner , and only 3 of them in hospital, the delay until September is bordering in stupidity. It is also a breach in the Australian constitution, but they got away with it at the height of the pandemic.
Airlines could be offering flights to tourist spots from Brisbane and regional areas pushing domestic travel. Currently from my local airport Emerald , we have 2 flights a day to Brisbane 1 by both carrier, don't bother using them as the fares are through the roof at the moment.

AN767


That last sentence is the reason that we need Virgin or some one to compete against QF a monopoly is what Alan Joyce wants.
 
Deano969
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 7:57 am

anstar wrote:
Deano969 wrote:

I think that with now 12 active cases in Queensland, we are waiting for states like N.S.W. to show similar numbers before we open our borders to this risk CV-19 being imported from other states or for that matter from overseas
Countries such as N.Z. most Pacific Island nations, Korea, Vietnam and Thailand could be considered safe for travel very soon


No chance International will open up while states are still having closed borders and imposing quarantine etc. Got to get our own house in order first.


I was not implying that QLD would see international borders opening before domestic, just that some countries would be relatively safe to travel to and from whilst others may either never open up or there would be a mandatory 14 day isolation period making travel unattractive

This Covid-19 is a scary virus that we have not even seen mutate significantly as yet, some just think of it as a "boomer remover", but once mutated it will take the lives of many younger people as well
Some countries are showing around 20% death rate on closed cases
USA 21%
Spain 12%
Brazil 14%
France 31%
Even Germany 5%
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 8:38 am

Deano969 wrote:
No vaccine has ever been created for ANY corona virus ever and with countries like the U.S. looking down the barrel of 100% infections and some people having the virus reoccur, will a country like Australia, who may totally eliminate the virus, ever open their borders to them again for fear of bringing the virus to a vulnerable population ?


Way to exaggerate the situation. 1.5 million total COVID infections in the US so far, so a 100% infection rate means just another 300 odd million Americans left to get infected then :sarcastic:
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NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 9:14 am

eamondzhang wrote:
I do believe there's currently no restrictions between VIC, ACT and NSW if someone wants to travel between these three states/territories though?

Cheers,
Michael


Can't due to there still being stay at home orders. Can't just go on a a trip without a valid reason. Yes you could do it but you risk a substantial fine.
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 10:52 am

eamondzhang wrote:
I do believe there's currently no restrictions between VIC, ACT and NSW if someone wants to travel between these three states/territories though?

Cheers,
Michael


Current situation here in VIC is no overnight stays, either at friends or family, hotels or camping.

Strictly day tripping at the moment, and you still need a valid reason to travel (recreation is now a valid reason).
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
timtam
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 1:13 pm

Very poor form of one state to take another state to task over seeking to protect its population from the spread of Covid-19 based upon its own expert medical advice. Especially considering the involvement of one state's officials in the Ruby Princess disaster.

When a state opens its borders, it becomes vulnerable to the decision made in the other states - decision which it has no control upon and decisions which may not be consistent with its own expert medical advice.

.
 
Deano969
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 5:18 pm

SYDSpotter wrote:
Deano969 wrote:
No vaccine has ever been created for ANY corona virus ever and with countries like the U.S. looking down the barrel of 100% infections and some people having the virus reoccur, will a country like Australia, who may totally eliminate the virus, ever open their borders to them again for fear of bringing the virus to a vulnerable population ?


Way to exaggerate the situation. 1.5 million total COVID infections in the US so far, so a 100% infection rate means just another 300 odd million Americans left to get infected then :sarcastic:


Extra 20,000-30,000 new cases daily during lockdown
Now America is "back to business" so watch it climb to 50k or 100k per day
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 11:12 pm

tullamarine wrote:
It will obviously depend on the winning consortium but, even if SRB is not involved in winning consortium, it is possible a reduced fee will be negotiated so they can keep the name in the short to medium term. A full rebrand including launching a new name is an expensive exercise probably running into the tens of millions of dollars once advertising, repainting etc is considered. I doubt anyone would be keen to spend these sort of dollars on day one.


I would agree. Media reports suggest that SRB will wait until the winner is chosen and then join with them, but even if that wasn't the case I would expect he would want to keep the airline operating as Virgin Australia because of ego, attachment and that it makes him $15m per year in licensing fees. The cost of rebranding the airline would be massive, probably more than a year of that licensing fee, and it would go beyond money because the airline we know as 'Virgin' has already invested a decade in building that brand, to start again from scratch would be a massive undertaking. I think it's more likely that if money is what the new owners are concerned about, and of course they would be, then SRB would simply offer to waive his licensing fee for the first year or two until the airline is back on its feet and demand is heading back to normal, and then maybe make it $5m for the year 3, $10m for year 4 and back to $15m for year 5 because by then we're talking about 2025 and demand should be at 2019 levels and the new Virgin Australia 2.0 should be making enough money.
 
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allrite
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 11:23 pm

The major reasons for preventing travel are that it exposes people to a wider range of contacts and that contact tracing becomes a lot more difficult. Each state has its own health authority, so working together can be hard enough, but once you go out of the house you are exposed to more strangers. COVID-19 is highly infectious even when victims are asymptomatic and an outbreak can become unmanageable. The more people stay in a small geographic area, the easier it is to lock down that area without causing as much disruption to the rest of the country. Cautiously reopening gives authorities more time to monitor and respond to outbreaks.

Sadly I think there is political pressure to reopen early.

What has also become clear is that the virus doesn't just affect the elderly and there are potentially long term side effects. And that many people can't be trusted to do the right thing. I wonder if the Qantas policy of not making masks compulsory (in this case masks are believed to help prevent the spreading infection rather than directly protecting wearers) is because they don't believe that they can manage the backlash from non-complying passengers. I bet many of those would be of the higher fare paying entitled set.

I personally plan to wait a while before travelling and see how the virus spreads with the lifting of restrictions. My organisation is targeting September before looking at lifting the policies of "Work from home if you can and restrict travel if possible." I imagine that many other office based operations will be the same.
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melpax
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 12:18 am

[quote="allrite"][/quote]

I've been working from home for the past 8 weeks (public service), looks like this might be the case for some time to come. With the talk here in Melbourne of limiting numbers on public transport, I suspect a likely outcome might be working from the office 1-2 days a week, then WFH for the rest of the week. All staff travel has been basically put on hold for the duration.

Here in Melbourne, the city only started emptying out when the banks started sending staff home, and especially after Telstra told most of their staff to work from home.

A friend works in the head office of one of the major retailers. They've been spending 1 day a week in the office, they have been told that from June, 2 days at the office, WFH for the remainder of the week, and this will be until the end of the year at least. Suspect this sort of arrangement will be the norm in most offices for some time.
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tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 12:30 am

Each state has its own health authority, so working together can be hard enough, but once you go out of the house you are exposed to more strangers.

Each state's CHO as a member of the AHPPC (Australian Health Protection Principal Committee) along with the Federal CMO. They have advised that travel within Australia is basically OK but there is politics at play restricting this.

Total elimination is not achievable for the forseeable future so at some point interstate travel needs to reopen with test and trace. It is hard to see what will change between now and September so I cannot understand what the QLD premier is waiting for. There will still be occassional clusters that need to be managed. Keeping the complete interstate lockdown is creating incredible hardship for the QLD travel industry , many of them small businesses that will never recover, for very little gain.
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allrite
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 1:28 am

tullamarine wrote:
Each state has its own health authority, so working together can be hard enough, but once you go out of the house you are exposed to more strangers.

Each state's CHO as a member of the AHPPC (Australian Health Protection Principal Committee) along with the Federal CMO. They have advised that travel within Australia is basically OK but there is politics at play restricting this.

Total elimination is not achievable for the forseeable future so at some point interstate travel needs to reopen with test and trace. It is hard to see what will change between now and September so I cannot understand what the QLD premier is waiting for. There will still be occassional clusters that need to be managed. Keeping the complete interstate lockdown is creating incredible hardship for the QLD travel industry , many of them small businesses that will never recover, for very little gain.


Tracing is done at the state health authority level and is probably not well coordinated. For instance, at the moment the NSW authorities cannot even access the tracing data from the Covidsafe app, which is pretty much useless as is! September may be too long to wait, but I think it prudent to observe the effects of smaller scale opening first, especially as Qld is such a big tourist destination during winter that a huge influx could be difficult to manage and we are looking at infectious periods of over two weeks, so a lot of lag is possible. Better to be prepared for delays if things go sour than be too optimistic for peak travel season and then suddenly be shutdown again, which is what will happen if an outbreak is traced to a very popular sight or restaurant. The longer that covid-19 is active, the worse the effects of a loss of confidence will be on a venue.

I wonder how the airlines will cope if a cluster can be associated with a given flight. What will this do to passenger confidence? How many people will prefer to drive than fly over the next few months?
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timtam
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 2:14 am

tullamarine wrote:
They have advised that travel within Australia is basically OK but there is politics at play restricting this.
.


Just to counter that comment - there is politics at play in seeking to open up travel early - in advance of the expert medical advice being provided to some of the states. But some states are not bending to the politics at play and are sticking with keeping their borders closed.

In this era, every decision that was at first considered to be on the conservative side has proven to be the correct decision.

There is massive pressure on state governments to open early and it takes a lot of strength to ignore those calls from the various lobby groups who are usually influential and are also the source of a lot of political donations.
 
VHOGU
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 2:51 am

A couple of months ago someone was talking about non BSI VA 737’s being retrofitted with BSI interiors.. I can’t find a source on it and I really doubt that they’d bother changing the interiors on their aircraft for aesthetic purposes. Can anyone shed any light? I believe someone mentioned VUO had been retrofitted.. I don’t believe it has been.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 2:59 am

timtam wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
They have advised that travel within Australia is basically OK but there is politics at play restricting this.
.


Just to counter that comment - there is politics at play in seeking to open up travel early - in advance of the expert medical advice being provided to some of the states. But some states are not bending to the politics at play and are sticking with keeping their borders closed.

In this era, every decision that was at first considered to be on the conservative side has proven to be the correct decision.

There is massive pressure on state governments to open early and it takes a lot of strength to ignore those calls from the various lobby groups who are usually influential and are also the source of a lot of political donations.

You are right that there is a lot of politics but it still doesn't explain why delaying to September makes any sense. Nothing will materially change by September; there will be no vaccination and there will still be outbreaks.

The closedown was necessary but we can't stay permanently closed until a vaccination comes along which is by no means certain of ever happening. Australia has been incredibly successful in suppressing the virus and has world-leading test and trace methodologies. Covidsafe was used for the first time in VIctoria today to trace contacts of a sufferer. A reopening in Australia is very different from a US state where active cases continue to grow.

70% of revenue activity in the North Qld and Broome tourism sectors happens between June and September. If you wait because you are overly cautious you may find there is very little left to bother reopening.
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jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 3:17 am

tullamarine wrote:
timtam wrote:
tullamarine wrote:


Just to counter that comment - there is politics at play in seeking to open up travel early - in advance of the expert medical advice being provided to some of the states. But some states are not bending to the politics at play and are sticking with keeping their borders closed.

In this era, every decision that was at first considered to be on the conservative side has proven to be the correct decision.

There is massive pressure on state governments to open early and it takes a lot of strength to ignore those calls from the various lobby groups who are usually influential and are also the source of a lot of political donations.

You are right that there is a lot of politics but it still doesn't explain why delaying to September makes any sense. Nothing will materially change by September; there will be no vaccination and there will still be outbreaks.

The closedown was necessary but we can't stay permanently closed until a vaccination comes along which is by no means certain of ever happening. Australia has been incredibly successful in suppressing the virus and has world-leading test and trace methodologies. Covidsafe was used for the first time in VIctoria today to trace contacts of a sufferer. A reopening in Australia is very different from a US state where active cases continue to grow.

70% of revenue activity in the North Qld and Broome tourism sectors happens between June and September. If you wait because you are overly cautious you may find there is very little left to bother reopening.


North Qld, NT and northern WA are the prime winter sun domestic spots but also have significant indigenous populations who are at significant risk of coronavirus. We have seen how clusters in NSW and VIC have spread very quickly and this cannot be risked in these areas with high risk populations and also far away from significant ICU capacity....
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 3:36 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
timtam wrote:

Just to counter that comment - there is politics at play in seeking to open up travel early - in advance of the expert medical advice being provided to some of the states. But some states are not bending to the politics at play and are sticking with keeping their borders closed.

In this era, every decision that was at first considered to be on the conservative side has proven to be the correct decision.

There is massive pressure on state governments to open early and it takes a lot of strength to ignore those calls from the various lobby groups who are usually influential and are also the source of a lot of political donations.

You are right that there is a lot of politics but it still doesn't explain why delaying to September makes any sense. Nothing will materially change by September; there will be no vaccination and there will still be outbreaks.

The closedown was necessary but we can't stay permanently closed until a vaccination comes along which is by no means certain of ever happening. Australia has been incredibly successful in suppressing the virus and has world-leading test and trace methodologies. Covidsafe was used for the first time in VIctoria today to trace contacts of a sufferer. A reopening in Australia is very different from a US state where active cases continue to grow.

70% of revenue activity in the North Qld and Broome tourism sectors happens between June and September. If you wait because you are overly cautious you may find there is very little left to bother reopening.


North Qld, NT and northern WA are the prime winter sun domestic spots but also have significant indigenous populations who are at significant risk of coronavirus. We have seen how clusters in NSW and VIC have spread very quickly and this cannot be risked in these areas with high risk populations and also far away from significant ICU capacity....

Yes, you are correct but you will still be correct in September so on that basis, you are saying the borders stay closed until there is a vaccine which may be never.
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jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 4:20 am

tullamarine wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
You are right that there is a lot of politics but it still doesn't explain why delaying to September makes any sense. Nothing will materially change by September; there will be no vaccination and there will still be outbreaks.

The closedown was necessary but we can't stay permanently closed until a vaccination comes along which is by no means certain of ever happening. Australia has been incredibly successful in suppressing the virus and has world-leading test and trace methodologies. Covidsafe was used for the first time in VIctoria today to trace contacts of a sufferer. A reopening in Australia is very different from a US state where active cases continue to grow.

70% of revenue activity in the North Qld and Broome tourism sectors happens between June and September. If you wait because you are overly cautious you may find there is very little left to bother reopening.


North Qld, NT and northern WA are the prime winter sun domestic spots but also have significant indigenous populations who are at significant risk of coronavirus. We have seen how clusters in NSW and VIC have spread very quickly and this cannot be risked in these areas with high risk populations and also far away from significant ICU capacity....

Yes, you are correct but you will still be correct in September so on that basis, you are saying the borders stay closed until there is a vaccine which may be never.


What i'm saying is that the states with border closures are waiting to see if there will be an increase in cases once restrictions ease in VIC and NSW. Until that is known they will not open the borders. It is quite possible we will see a two tier system with travel allowed between states with no cases (WA, NT, SA, maybe QLD), which have essentially eradicated covid. Its also likely that northern WA and northern QLD will open for travel for residents of those states so tourism will not be completely lost for the winter season in those places. However until VIC and NSW have further suppressed their cases then the borders will remain closed, but i think this should be achieved by September.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 5:15 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:

North Qld, NT and northern WA are the prime winter sun domestic spots but also have significant indigenous populations who are at significant risk of coronavirus. We have seen how clusters in NSW and VIC have spread very quickly and this cannot be risked in these areas with high risk populations and also far away from significant ICU capacity....

Yes, you are correct but you will still be correct in September so on that basis, you are saying the borders stay closed until there is a vaccine which may be never.


What i'm saying is that the states with border closures are waiting to see if there will be an increase in cases once restrictions ease in VIC and NSW. Until that is known they will not open the borders. It is quite possible we will see a two tier system with travel allowed between states with no cases (WA, NT, SA, maybe QLD), which have essentially eradicated covid. Its also likely that northern WA and northern QLD will open for travel for residents of those states so tourism will not be completely lost for the winter season in those places. However until VIC and NSW have further suppressed their cases then the borders will remain closed, but i think this should be achieved by September.

Such a move doesn't make sense. Apart from being economically useless given the numbers involved (you are excluding 57% of the population), it seems to suggest that WA,SA, QLD can expect to continue to eradicate COVID. Even they admit that this is not possible. What happens if one state gets a case, is it kicked out of your bubble?

Eradication without a vaccine is only possible if you completely lock down your economy. For a state like Qld, this is unrealistic. Its own website claims that over 200,000 jobs directly are tied to tourism and obviously many more dependant on the industry. These jobs are currently gone. If the QLD government wait until after September, they will have completely missed the high-season so these jobs will be largely on hold until June next year. That is not a sustainable solution and will likely see the hollowing out the economies of regions up and down the Queensland coast.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 5:25 am

Domestic BITRE figures for March 2020

https://www.bitre.gov.au/sites/default/ ... h-2020.pdf

37.2% decrease in passenger numbers
16.9% decrease in flights
Load factors fell 16% to 62.7% compared to same time in 2019

MEL-SYD down 48%
SYD-BNE down 43.5%
BNE-MEL down 42.8%
OOL-SYD down 39.9%
ADL-MEL down 43.1%
MEL-PER down 33.2%
OOL-MEL down 35.6%
ADL-SYD down 40.5%
PER-SYD down 32.7%
HBA-MEL down 40%
BNE-CNS down 38.7%
CBR-MEL down 45.7%
BNE-PER down 25.1%
BNE-TSV down 33.3%
LST-MEL down 40.9%

Load factors for the top 15 routes above averaged 60-65% except for OOL-MEL and SYD-OOL which both were just over 70%. MEL-CBR barely averaged 50%

Other large drops
AYQ-SYD down 50.1%
BME-PER down 49.6%
ARM-SYD down 47.5%

PER-PHE was the only route to record an increase, being 1.5% of the month

Overall passenger number
SYD down 43.3%
MEL down 42.9%
BNE down 37.9%
ASP down 50.2%

Cargo movements fell 5.4%
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BAeRJ100
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 5:26 am

No link yet, but Qantas has agreed to fully acquire the Airline Services (B717) division of Cobham.
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
A223/320/321/332/333/346/359/388
MD82/MD88/717/F100/RJ85/RJ100/146-100/200/300
E175/190/CRJ700/900
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 5:37 am

tullamarine wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Yes, you are correct but you will still be correct in September so on that basis, you are saying the borders stay closed until there is a vaccine which may be never.


What i'm saying is that the states with border closures are waiting to see if there will be an increase in cases once restrictions ease in VIC and NSW. Until that is known they will not open the borders. It is quite possible we will see a two tier system with travel allowed between states with no cases (WA, NT, SA, maybe QLD), which have essentially eradicated covid. Its also likely that northern WA and northern QLD will open for travel for residents of those states so tourism will not be completely lost for the winter season in those places. However until VIC and NSW have further suppressed their cases then the borders will remain closed, but i think this should be achieved by September.

Such a move doesn't make sense. Apart from being economically useless given the numbers involved (you are excluding 57% of the population), it seems to suggest that WA,SA, QLD can expect to continue to eradicate COVID. Even they admit that this is not possible. What happens if one state gets a case, is it kicked out of your bubble?

Eradication without a vaccine is only possible if you completely lock down your economy. For a state like Qld, this is unrealistic. Its own website claims that over 200,000 jobs directly are tied to tourism and obviously many more dependant on the industry. These jobs are currently gone. If the QLD government wait until after September, they will have completely missed the high-season so these jobs will be largely on hold until June next year. That is not a sustainable solution and will likely see the hollowing out the economies of regions up and down the Queensland coast.


I think you'll find WA/SA/NT/ACT and New Zealand have essentially eradicated covid without a vaccine.

Economically useless......Well state border closures have enabled those states to loosen their restrictions more than those without.
The advantages of re opening other sectors of the economy in these states outweighs the tourism losses.
QLD is a bit more on the fence with greater dependence on tourism.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 5:50 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:

What i'm saying is that the states with border closures are waiting to see if there will be an increase in cases once restrictions ease in VIC and NSW. Until that is known they will not open the borders. It is quite possible we will see a two tier system with travel allowed between states with no cases (WA, NT, SA, maybe QLD), which have essentially eradicated covid. Its also likely that northern WA and northern QLD will open for travel for residents of those states so tourism will not be completely lost for the winter season in those places. However until VIC and NSW have further suppressed their cases then the borders will remain closed, but i think this should be achieved by September.

Such a move doesn't make sense. Apart from being economically useless given the numbers involved (you are excluding 57% of the population), it seems to suggest that WA,SA, QLD can expect to continue to eradicate COVID. Even they admit that this is not possible. What happens if one state gets a case, is it kicked out of your bubble?

Eradication without a vaccine is only possible if you completely lock down your economy. For a state like Qld, this is unrealistic. Its own website claims that over 200,000 jobs directly are tied to tourism and obviously many more dependant on the industry. These jobs are currently gone. If the QLD government wait until after September, they will have completely missed the high-season so these jobs will be largely on hold until June next year. That is not a sustainable solution and will likely see the hollowing out the economies of regions up and down the Queensland coast.


I think you'll find WA/SA/NT/ACT and New Zealand have essentially eradicated covid without a vaccine.

Economically useless......Well state border closures have enabled those states to loosen their restrictions more than those without.
The advantages of re opening other sectors of the economy in these states outweighs the tourism losses.
QLD is a bit more on the fence with greater dependence on tourism.


NSW/VIC remain at risk of being walled off, while the others get along with life at the moment.

I could see New Zealand being open to travel to certain states, if there was still issues with VIC/NSW.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 5:56 am

I think you'll find WA/SA/NT/ACT and New Zealand have essentially eradicated covid without a vaccine.

We're probably a bit off the aviation topic but, whilst successful, this is only ever a suppression not an eradication. The virus will recur at some point and every state must know know and accept that. Remember the lockdown was to smooth the curve so our hospital system was not overwhelmed and Australia has succeeded brilliantly at this. Unfortunately it seems to have descended into a pi$$ing contest about who can have zero cases for the most days. This was never the aim and the cure is now becoming more deadly than the disease. I support responsible action as the economy is restarted but I see absolutely no value in suppressing the economy for another 3 months for no obvious gain but with a huge obvious cost.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 6:14 am

tullamarine wrote:
I think you'll find WA/SA/NT/ACT and New Zealand have essentially eradicated covid without a vaccine.

We're probably a bit off the aviation topic but, whilst successful, this is only ever a suppression not an eradication.


Indeed, eradication was never the aim in Australia, but it has essentially been achieved in some states. But yes it has turned into a political issue between premiers. Im not sure there is a constitutional provision for state border closures but unless the Fed Gov steps in somehow its difficult to intervene. I know i've had to cancel lots of interstate trips and i cant wait to get back to flying.

Regardless i think even domestic flying may be somewhat different after this with VA / Tiger in the balance and potential for Rex to enter capital city routes. I worry that some of the thinner leisure routes may not return for quite a while.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 6:21 am

tullamarine wrote:
I think you'll find WA/SA/NT/ACT and New Zealand have essentially eradicated covid without a vaccine.

We're probably a bit off the aviation topic but, whilst successful, this is only ever a suppression not an eradication. The virus will recur at some point and every state must know know and accept that. Remember the lockdown was to smooth the curve so our hospital system was not overwhelmed and Australia has succeeded brilliantly at this. Unfortunately it seems to have descended into a pi$$ing contest about who can have zero cases for the most days. This was never the aim and the cure is now becoming more deadly than the disease. I support responsible action as the economy is restarted but I see absolutely no value in suppressing the economy for another 3 months for no obvious gain but with a huge obvious cost.


I agree. These intra/inter state closures now have become a chest thumping exercise by state premiers to prove to everyone how much better they are than other state premiers.
The country was asked to flatten the curve. We put our lives and livelihoods on hold, in the name of flattening the curve, we did that, now it’s time to go back to work.

I think some of the premiers overestimate how popular they are, and will be shocked as it plummets as more and more people lose their livelihoods in the next few months, while they boast about how awesome they are.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 6:27 am

While eradication may not have been the aim.
It is possibly achievable - or at least containing outbreaks to very low levels.
(The bulk of daily reported cases in the past week have been from people in quarantine, both overseas returns and known contacts like family)

The downside is it will likely require mandatory 14-day quarantine for some time, which will destroy our inbound tourism industry
 
timtam
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 6:33 am

tullamarine wrote:

70% of revenue activity in the North Qld and Broome tourism sectors happens between June and September. If you wait because you are overly cautious you may find there is very little left to bother reopening.


Its a pretty simple question. Do you put peoples lives first or do you put the economy first?

If you get it wrong in one direction - the cost is in peoples lives. If you get it wrong in the other direction - the cost is in peoples income. Whats the better choice? What value do you put on people's lives versus their livelihoods? Its a tough question and we all will have different answers.

We are not talking September right now. We are talking about June.NSW wants QLD to open its borders now. September is a long way away and a lot can happen and a lot might change between now and then.

Come July, Sept and December, North QLD and Broome will still be there.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 6:37 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
jrfspa320 wrote:

What i'm saying is that the states with border closures are waiting to see if there will be an increase in cases once restrictions ease in VIC and NSW. Until that is known they will not open the borders. It is quite possible we will see a two tier system with travel allowed between states with no cases (WA, NT, SA, maybe QLD), which have essentially eradicated covid. Its also likely that northern WA and northern QLD will open for travel for residents of those states so tourism will not be completely lost for the winter season in those places. However until VIC and NSW have further suppressed their cases then the borders will remain closed, but i think this should be achieved by September.

Such a move doesn't make sense. Apart from being economically useless given the numbers involved (you are excluding 57% of the population), it seems to suggest that WA,SA, QLD can expect to continue to eradicate COVID. Even they admit that this is not possible. What happens if one state gets a case, is it kicked out of your bubble?

Eradication without a vaccine is only possible if you completely lock down your economy. For a state like Qld, this is unrealistic. Its own website claims that over 200,000 jobs directly are tied to tourism and obviously many more dependant on the industry. These jobs are currently gone. If the QLD government wait until after September, they will have completely missed the high-season so these jobs will be largely on hold until June next year. That is not a sustainable solution and will likely see the hollowing out the economies of regions up and down the Queensland coast.



I think you'll find WA/SA/NT/ACT and New Zealand have essentially eradicated covid without a vaccine.

Economically useless......Well state border closures have enabled those states to loosen their restrictions more than those without.
The advantages of re opening other sectors of the economy in these states outweighs the tourism losses.
QLD is a bit more on the fence with greater dependence on tourism.


Including the ACT in this above is shows just how rediculous closing the border to NSW/VIC really is. ACT is effectively part of NSW, and has zero restrictions on interstate arrivals. At the peak of the virus the restrictions in place in the ACT were pretty slack compared to almost all other states/territories apart form NT, and those that were in place were not strictly enforced. Someone could turn up from Sydney or Melbourne and would not be prevented from walking around in the community, a community where (compared to Sydney etc) a lot of people were outside, socialising in public etc (relatively speaking, compared to Sydney). Yet ACT has zero cases.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
timtam
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 6:38 am

Whatsaptudo wrote:

These intra/inter state closures now have become a chest thumping exercise by state premiers to prove to everyone how much better they are than other state premiers.
The country was asked to flatten the curve. We put our lives and livelihoods on hold, in the name of flattening the curve, we did that, now it’s time to go back to work.

I think some of the premiers overestimate how popular they are, and will be shocked as it plummets as more and more people lose their livelihoods in the next few months, while they boast about how awesome they are.


Your completely misreading the public opinion in those locations. In South Australia there is widespread public support for keeping the borders closed. There is very little public support for opening the borders and the Premier's popularity has been steadily increasing through this crisis.

I suspect public opinion is even stronger in WA.
 
timtam
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 6:50 am

Taking a light hearted view - maybe we can have 2 bubbles in Australia.....

Bubble one for people who think their jobs are more important than peoples lives. Let them move between themselves freely.
Bubble two for people who think their lives are more important than their jobs. Let them keep the borders closed to Bubble one.

Another solution would be to fly everyone who wants to be in Bubble One to the US and Brasil......(only joking).

Enough from me - diverging to far away from the topic.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 7:37 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
It will obviously depend on the winning consortium but, even if SRB is not involved in winning consortium, it is possible a reduced fee will be negotiated so they can keep the name in the short to medium term. A full rebrand including launching a new name is an expensive exercise probably running into the tens of millions of dollars once advertising, repainting etc is considered. I doubt anyone would be keen to spend these sort of dollars on day one.


I would agree. Media reports suggest that SRB will wait until the winner is chosen and then join with them, but even if that wasn't the case I would expect he would want to keep the airline operating as Virgin Australia because of ego, attachment and that it makes him $15m per year in licensing fees. The cost of rebranding the airline would be massive, probably more than a year of that licensing fee, and it would go beyond money because the airline we know as 'Virgin' has already invested a decade in building that brand, to start again from scratch would be a massive undertaking. I think it's more likely that if money is what the new owners are concerned about, and of course they would be, then SRB would simply offer to waive his licensing fee for the first year or two until the airline is back on its feet and demand is heading back to normal, and then maybe make it $5m for the year 3, $10m for year 4 and back to $15m for year 5 because by then we're talking about 2025 and demand should be at 2019 levels and the new Virgin Australia 2.0 should be making enough money.


Apart from Virgin Atlantic, all the other Virgin Airlines are gone, the European Virgins, Virgin America (now Alaska Airlines), were they paying SRB fees to use the Virgin name and could he possibly do any thing to keep Virgin Australia flying?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 7:38 am

Seems that Qantas has bought out Cobham Australia's National Jet Systems, which operated the QantasLink B717s

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport ... 520-p54uup
 
FL420FT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 9:05 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Seems that Qantas has bought out Cobham Australia's National Jet Systems, which operated the QantasLink B717s

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport ... 520-p54uup


paywall free link ...

https://newsinfopark.com/economy/2020-0 ... desk-team/
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 9:24 am

timtam wrote:
[
Your completely misreading the public opinion in those locations. In South Australia there is widespread public support for keeping the borders closed. There is very little public support for opening the borders and the Premier's popularity has been steadily increasing through this crisis.

I suspect public opinion is even stronger in WA.


We are 2 months into border restrictions and social distancing measures, it's felt like an eternity, but it's still only 2 months. If the border restrictions last for a further 6 months, I think public opinion will turn pretty quickly. There is only so long, the State and Federal Governments can afford to prop up the economy. QLD has said it may be September before borders are re-opened on the premise that NSW/VIC transmission/cases will have dropped by then. I can't see that happening with NSW/VIC starting to ease restrictions which only increases the likelihood of further cases. So would QLD wait till March 2021 before re-opening borders? Yes they could, but their entire tourism industry will have disappeared by that point.

Short of there being a vaccine, the virus is going to be floating around for a little while. So a compromise will need to be made, close your borders and have 0 risk of transmissions but absolutely trash your state/territory economy, or open your borders and risk a level of COVID-19 transmission. The same applies for Australia and it's international borders.

So the QLD government can absolutely go ahead and invest in VA, but their hard stance on borders doesn't translate well to VA prospering if the borders are closed.
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
cx777fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 9:44 am

FL420FT wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Seems that Qantas has bought out Cobham Australia's National Jet Systems, which operated the QantasLink B717s

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport ... 520-p54uup


paywall free link ...

https://newsinfopark.com/economy/2020-0 ... desk-team/


A quote in the article says “Importantly, this is a back-office change which our customers won’t notice.” As a customer often subjected to sub-par in-flight service on SYD-OOL routes which in the past 12-18 months have increasingly shifted from mainline to QLink, I was rather hoping this acquisition would result in noticeable change! Particularly for pax in J where there is a very wide chasm between being looked after by a CSM with many years of experience (and in most cases) a well honed service style vs some very young and unpolished service from whoever is the designated "team leader" on a particular Qlink segment. Yes there are a few mainline CSMs who are jaded, but most at least can pronounce the wine they're pouring in J!
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 9:51 am

Just heard SriLankan Airlines will operate its’ first all-cargo flight to SYD starting 24th May 2020. The service will continue to operate with A330-200 on day 7 ex SYD-CMB providing cargo connectivity to Europe, Middle East, India, China, Pakistan & Bangladesh.

This first flight will be a special one as for the much awaited return of Srilankan Airlines to the Sydney market in almost 19 years.

Will provide a source once I’ve located one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 11:09 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:

Apart from Virgin Atlantic, all the other Virgin Airlines are gone, the European Virgins, Virgin America (now Alaska Airlines), were they paying SRB fees to use the Virgin name and could he possibly do any thing to keep Virgin Australia flying?


You can also add Virgin Nigeria to that list as well.
 
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a36001
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 11:27 am

cx777fan wrote:
FL420FT wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Seems that Qantas has bought out Cobham Australia's National Jet Systems, which operated the QantasLink B717s

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport ... 520-p54uup


paywall free link ...

https://newsinfopark.com/economy/2020-0 ... desk-team/


A quote in the article says “Importantly, this is a back-office change which our customers won’t notice.” As a customer often subjected to sub-par in-flight service on SYD-OOL routes which in the past 12-18 months have increasingly shifted from mainline to QLink, I was rather hoping this acquisition would result in noticeable change! Particularly for pax in J where there is a very wide chasm between being looked after by a CSM with many years of experience (and in most cases) a well honed service style vs some very young and unpolished service from whoever is the designated "team leader" on a particular Qlink segment. Yes there are a few mainline CSMs who are jaded, but most at least can pronounce the wine they're pouring in J!


Don’t take this wrong way but it really amuses me that with everything that is going on right now and thousands of crew stood down or possibly out of a job the pronunciation of beverages (past present or future) is of any importance. As long as the crew, unpolished or not, can save your life that really is all that matters. Isn’t it?
 
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allrite
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 12:49 pm

a36001 wrote:
Don’t take this wrong way but it really amuses me that with everything that is going on right now and thousands of crew stood down or possibly out of a job the pronunciation of beverages (past present or future) is of any importance. As long as the crew, unpolished or not, can save your life that really is all that matters. Isn’t it?


Now I've got this vision of a potential Queensland government investment into Virgin Australia going beyond the financial (and headquarters location) side and into the service side of operating the airline.

Passenger: I'd like a drink.
FA: Here's ya XXXX.
Passenger: Do you have any wine?
FA: Bloody 'el. What do ya think this is? South Australian Airlines? We don't serve that Mexican p!ss on our flights.

Not sure why people are worried about Queensland tourism jobs when they have a coal mine that'll employ everybody, reef or no reef.

:duck: :duck: :duck:
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 1:44 pm

So this has been bothering me for a while and I'm no closer to an answer. On May 6th, Brisbane Airport tweeted this image with the below caption:

Image

Story time: This Boeing 777-300 had been sitting in Alice Springs for the past 12-24 months until very recently. A four person crew of recently-retired or just-about-to-retire American Airlines staff retrieved the aircraft with a stop in BNE before flying back to Dallas.


https://twitter.com/BrisbaneAirport/sta ... 0697605127

And I've been struggling to identify the aircraft in question. It appears to be a 777-300. It's definitely a nonER based on the engines (although the engine looks so long I keep nearly convincing myself its a CF6). I wasn't aware of any 777-300s in storage at ASP (although I believe that SQ has a few 77Ws there currently) - according to the tweet this one was there for the past two years or so. AA doesn't have any 777-300nonERs. Noone else has a maintenance base at Dallas. It doesn't appear to be an aircraft ex SQ or Thai. CX hasn't retired any of their -300nonERs, all the ANA ones were scrapped in the US without being stored in ASP. JAL has retired a few -300s, but they were all scrapped in SBD. EK's -300nonERs were transferred to CX with heavy maintenance done in XMN. ANA hasn't retired any of their -300nonERs. The photo is pixelated so you can't see the registration, but it seems to be a US style one (all run together, no dash between the prefix and suffix). I downloaded the image and tried to adjust the lighting/contrast to see if there were fade marks of the tail which might give a clue as to a logo, but there isn't.

Any ideas?

JQ321 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
ACCC says it'll be keeping a very close eye on the $19 SYD-MEL JQ fares suggested by Alan Joyce to promote a restart of domestic travel in order to ensure this doesn't clash with the reborn and relaunched Virgin Australia and see that airline 'killed at birth' by cheap airfares.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/comp ... 54qgo.html

This is ridiculous. As long as QF isn't dumping capacity, allow them to stimulate the economy. If VA MKII can't survive allow a better financially competitive and viable airline take it's place.


It is the literal definition of capacity dumping. Unless you mean to suggest that JQ's cost base is low enough to break even with such a fare? :scratchchin:
First to fly the 787-9
 
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vhqpa
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 2:26 pm

zkojq wrote:
So this has been bothering me for a while and I'm no closer to an answer. On May 6th, Brisbane Airport tweeted this image with the below caption:

Image

Story time: This Boeing 777-300 had been sitting in Alice Springs for the past 12-24 months until very recently. A four person crew of recently-retired or just-about-to-retire American Airlines staff retrieved the aircraft with a stop in BNE before flying back to Dallas.


https://twitter.com/BrisbaneAirport/sta ... 0697605127

And I've been struggling to identify the aircraft in question. It appears to be a 777-300. It's definitely a nonER based on the engines (although the engine looks so long I keep nearly convincing myself its a CF6). I wasn't aware of any 777-300s in storage at ASP (although I believe that SQ has a few 77Ws there currently) - according to the tweet this one was there for the past two years or so. AA doesn't have any 777-300nonERs. Noone else has a maintenance base at Dallas. It doesn't appear to be an aircraft ex SQ or Thai. CX hasn't retired any of their -300nonERs, all the ANA ones were scrapped in the US without being stored in ASP. JAL has retired a few -300s, but they were all scrapped in SBD. EK's -300nonERs were transferred to CX with heavy maintenance done in XMN. ANA hasn't retired any of their -300nonERs. The photo is pixelated so you can't see the registration, but it seems to be a US style one (all run together, no dash between the prefix and suffix). I downloaded the image and tried to adjust the lighting/contrast to see if there were fade marks of the tail which might give a clue as to a logo, but there isn't.

Any ideas?



As far as I know there weren't any basic 777-300s powered by GE90, only PW4000 (KE/NH) and Trent 800 (Everyone else). I can almost make out the RR logo on the nacelle. Also what appears to be "BOEING 777-300" titles directly under the cockpit windows is consistent with where EK puts the aircraft type titles with every aircraft in their fleet. So I'm tipping it's ex EK. Although I'm not aware of any of their aircraft being stored in ASP. As to what AA want with a non ER 777-300, well I'd be very interested in knowing as well.
Last edited by vhqpa on Wed May 20, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 2:28 pm

Re above pic- my guess is an EK 777- if only because there aren't many operators with the aircraft type posted below the cockpit windows.
A6-EMO became N286AR and A6-EMP became N939AR.
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