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kaitak
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Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:56 pm

Well, maybe not flying so much, but at least it will bring some clue as to how this crisis will end.

The best description of April is probably something I'm borrowing/paraphrasing from Marvin (of Hitchhiker's fame!):

“The first week was the worst," said Marvin, "and the second week, it was the worst too. The third week I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline.”

So, highlights (highlights, he says!) from April?

- 83% drop in flights ex DUB; steep drops across all three major airports, reflecting steep drops across the world
- Flights remain suspended to most destinations; as at 30/4, no firm information as to when they will be reinstated; lockdown likely to be extended for another two weeks on 2nd May.
- Significant increase in cargo flights and several repatriation flights also being operated (by LY/SV/KU/MS, among others)
- Rows about cancellation/rebooking and refunding rumbling on; likely to do so for some considerable time; most airlines offering free rebooking; some offering vouchers. However, refunds remain a major sticking point.
- Avolon cancels 75 orders for 737 Max
- Row over FR flying manual workers from E Europe to Dublin
- Stobart Air acquired by Stobart Group
- DNATA (Dubai) takes over EI catering operation
- Cityjet loses EI LCY flights contract.
- IAG Group expects job losses of 12,000 across its carriers
- Just announced today: TXL (Berlin) will close on June 1, so EI/FR flights to Berlin will serve the new Brandenburg Airport from this date.

Well, as the saying goes, it's better to travel in hope than to arrive, so as our journey to the peak summer season (or what of it we'll see) continues, let's just hope that May brings some glimmer of hope.

Here's a link to the last thread, in case anyone wants a reason to feel depressed :https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1443831
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:47 pm

Lots of news despite the current crisis. Certainly DUB is getting some interesting carriers flying in. Summer is pretty much lost and we must look forward to gradual travel from October onwards with caution. Winter could bring more lockdowns if we see a new wave. I guess Summer 2021 is the season to look forward to. Good news is that a few Irish insurance companies are going to cover Covid-19 medical cover should you get sick while abroad so you will not end up with huge medical bills as long as you are not travelling against government advice. That should offer some relief to potential tourists . I certainly will feel happier having this cover.

It seems Aer Lingus will adopt the no mask no fly policy going forward similar to the LH group.
 
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sassiciai
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:06 pm

May? Here in Europe it is still April, yes it's the 30th, but just gone 7pm CET. In Ireland, it's just gone 6pm. What's the rush? Let's live in the here and now, says I!
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:11 pm

Thanks for the new thread as always Kaitak!

Not sure if it was reported in the last thread but I read elsewhere that Runway 16/34 was closed a month early to facilitate the joining of the new northern runway, the DAA taking the current quiet period as an opportunity to get the work done. Aerial photo evidence will be hard to find with less flying and fewer people around the airport but hopefully we'll see it in all its glory soon enough!
 
SeanM1997
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:52 pm

According to Aer Lingus' website, the following routes are "Sold Out" therefore can be deemed they have been dropped:
- Cork - Newquay
- Cork - Rennes
- Dublin - London City
- Dublin - Rennes
- Shannon - Edinburgh
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:57 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
According to Aer Lingus' website, the following routes are "Sold Out" therefore can be deemed they have been dropped:
- Dublin - London City


I was looking at flights just 48 hours ago DUB-LCY and they were on sale so yes it seems so unless in future they find a replacement partner.
 
DalRiada
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:36 pm

kaitak wrote:
Well, maybe not flying so much, but at least it will bring some clue as to how this crisis will end.

The best description of April is probably something I'm borrowing/paraphrasing from Marvin (of Hitchhiker's fame!):

“The first week was the worst," said Marvin, "and the second week, it was the worst too. The third week I didn't enjoy at all. After that I went into a bit of a decline.”

So, highlights (highlights, he says!) from April?

- 83% drop in flights ex DUB; steep drops across all three major airports, reflecting steep drops across the world
- Flights remain suspended to most destinations; as at 30/4, no firm information as to when they will be reinstated; lockdown likely to be extended for another two weeks on 2nd May.
- Significant increase in cargo flights and several repatriation flights also being operated (by LY/SV/KU/MS, among others)
- Rows about cancellation/rebooking and refunding rumbling on; likely to do so for some considerable time; most airlines offering free rebooking; some offering vouchers. However, refunds remain a major sticking point.
- Avolon cancels 75 orders for 737 Max
- Row over FR flying manual workers from E Europe to Dublin
- Stobart Air acquired by Stobart Group
- DNATA (Dubai) takes over EI catering operation
- Cityjet loses EI LCY flights contract.
- IAG Group expects job losses of 12,000 across its carriers
- Just announced today: TXL (Berlin) will close on June 1, so EI/FR flights to Berlin will serve the new Brandenburg Airport from this date.

Well, as the saying goes, it's better to travel in hope than to arrive, so as our journey to the peak summer season (or what of it we'll see) continues, let's just hope that May brings some glimmer of hope.

Here's a link to the last thread, in case anyone wants a reason to feel depressed :https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1443831


Reading through this reminded me of reading through posts from the hours and days following 9/11*. Hopefully aviation can make a strong recovery after Covid too - although it won’t be until after a vaccine is developed and distributed, as nobody will want to travel anywhere to be placed in quarantine for 14 days upon arrival and return.


*When I read through them in September 2019
 
Allanc1987
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:54 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
According to Aer Lingus' website, the following routes are "Sold Out" therefore can be deemed they have been dropped:
- Cork - Newquay
- Cork - Rennes
- Dublin - London City
- Dublin - Rennes
- Shannon - Edinburgh



- Cork - Newquay Seasonal Route Dropped
- Cork - Rennes Seasonal Route Dropped
- Dublin - London City ended Contract with CityJet likely to do with Avro RJ85 withdrawn and retired and having no replacement planes for London City Airport more likey be picked up with Storbot Air
- Dublin - Rennes Seasonal Route Dropped
- Shannon - Edinburgh Dropped Numbers might been low to run this?
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 6:10 am

https://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-air ... 0-Apr2020/

Taoiseach wants to see EI and FR flying ... by AUGUST! We're in for a long, long Summer, folks! (And it's very much conditional - there's no "will fly"; it's definitely "MAY")
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 6:33 am

 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 6:39 am

Ryanair to cut 3,000 jobs and Michael O'Leary to take 50pc paycut as airline says recovery will take two years

Ryanair has said it expects up to 3,000 jobs to be lost as part of a restructuring of the airline.
The airline said they expect the recovery of passenger demand and pricing to take two years.

"The Ryanair Airlines will shortly notify their trade unions about its restructuring and job loss program, which will commence from July 2020.

"These plans will be subject to consultation but will affect all Ryanair Airlines, and may result in the loss of up to 3,000 mainly pilot and cabin crew jobs, unpaid leave, and pay cuts of up to 20%, and the closure of a number of aircraft bases across Europe until traffic recovers. Job cuts and pay cuts will also be extended to Head Office and Back Office teams," a statement read.

www.independent.ie/business/ryanair-to- ... 72777.html
 
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Embajador3
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 6:45 am

I can see many of the smaller bases in Spain, Italy and Germany and perhaps UK and Ireland, to close down.
Flying Together
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 7:06 am

Embajador3 wrote:
I can see many of the smaller bases in Spain, Italy and Germany and perhaps UK and Ireland, to close down.


Only 6 days ago they were found in violation of the law and told to re employ staff at some Spanish bases I wonder what in reality will happen .
 
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Embajador3
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 7:43 am

Only 6 days ago they were found in violation of the law and told to re employ staff at some Spanish bases I wonder what in reality will happen .[/quote]

It was crystal clear that they were violating Spanish law. Going back to the topic, FR will have to downsize a lot to reduce costs.
Flying Together
 
bx737
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 9:09 am

Also on a joint Irish/Spanish news: SAS Ireland is closing its Malaga base.

This is discussed in the Spanish aviation thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1440883
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 9:23 am

TD calls for Aer Lingus to be renationalised in light of COVID-19 pandemic

Rise TD Paul Murphy says governments are currently propping up the airlines due to the coronavirus pandemic.

He told Pat Kenny changes may need to be made to save jobs.

"I think airlines globally are not going to survive the coronavirus crisis, they're going to go under.
"There's 4,000 Aer Lingus workers in this country now, a lot of their terms and conditions have been undermined through the process of privatisation in two successive waves.
"If those people are made unemployed at this time, it'll be very difficult for them to find new jobs.
"There are hundreds of thousands of people accessing the Pandemic Unemployment Payment, so we should not be making people unemployed - it's not good for those workers, but it's also not good for the economy as a whole."
"I think the question of renationalisation of British Airways by the British government, of Iberia by the Spanish government - and of Aer Lingus by the Irish Government - is going to come on to the agenda.

www.newstalk.com/news/td-calls-aer-ling ... ic-1007702
 
Eagleboy
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 9:56 am

That interview was a car crash. Murphy didn’t have actual facts to defend his statement. Pat Kenny even had to correct him by saying that WW had actually been a pilot after Murphy came out with “Willie Walsh doesn’t know what it’s like to be a worker in Aer Lingus”


BA announce almost 25% staff cuts, FR announce 3000 losses. Lufthansa pilots take 45% salary cut.
Even though EI were in a better position (as a leaner operation) than BA I’m thinking that the finance people in EI may see this as a great opportunity to “clean house”.
Similar to post 2008, businesses can restructure without undue flak from the public or protests by their staff.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 11:45 am

Aer Lingus seeks to cut 900 jobs - Breaking on RTE now.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 12:23 pm

Full story here;

Aer Lingus in talks with unions about 900 job cuts

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0 ... jobs-cuts/
 
Skyblue39
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 12:57 pm

Right now at DUB, there is an A350 operating today's QR17/18 from Doha. And a QR 777-3ER has just arrived in from LAX as well.
 
Allanc1987
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 12:58 pm

Coronavirus: £5.7m support package for remaining two London services operating from Belfast City and City of Derry airports.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52502929
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 12:59 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
Aer Lingus seeks to cut 900 jobs - Breaking on RTE now.


There were rumours on this a few days ago but friends of mine kind of expected it sadly. Thoughts with Aer Lingus staff .
 
Keano757
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 1:39 pm

[quote="Eagleboy"]That interview was a car crash. Murphy didn’t have actual facts to defend his statement. Pat Kenny even had to correct him by saying that WW had actually been a pilot after Murphy came out with “Willie Walsh doesn’t know what it’s like to be a worker in Aer Lingus”


My jaw dropped reading this. Is there a video of his interview? I mean, it's well documented that Willie Walsh was a pilot...a Wikipedia search covers it.
 
Eagleboy
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 3:00 pm

The link above to the Newstalk site has the audio of the interview,it’s about 9 mins long.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 3:42 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
Full story here;

Aer Lingus in talks with unions about 900 job cuts

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0 ... jobs-cuts/


The real take-away on this is they're going to try to achieve it with voluntary redundancy. Hopefully there are 900 people ready to retire early!

Either way, it's no big surprise, considering the way things are going.

Regarding the moron TD who advocates re-nationalising airlines... this isn't 1948 anymore. Not going to happen.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 9:27 pm

The government had launched its 5-phase roadmap for return to normality (or as close as we can get); it's not absolutely clear from it when flights will return to normal, though Phase 5 seems to be the most likely; it relates to a return to work for those employees not covered in the first four phases, which aviation and air travel doesn't seem to be. Clearly, as anyone who has been through either terminal at DUB on a busy day knows, there's going to be a lot of difficulty with social distancing, so presumably masks will be a requirement:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1445473

In other news, FR is said to have set a deadline of mid May to reach a deal with Boeing on a new deal for 737 Maxes
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Fri May 01, 2020 9:38 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
The real take-away on this is they're going to try to achieve it with voluntary redundancy. Hopefully there are 900 people ready to retire early!.


I think they will be hard pushed to find a quarter of that figure who will voluntary go unless the deal is impressive but I doubt it will be as generous as previous offers. In the past some have taken a very generous deal and then gone back under new contracts. In the current climate this would not be an option.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sat May 02, 2020 12:13 pm

kaitak wrote:
The government had launched its 5-phase roadmap for return to normality (or as close as we can get); it's not absolutely clear from it when flights will return to normal, though Phase 5 seems to be the most likely; it relates to a return to work for those employees not covered in the first four phases, which aviation and air travel doesn't seem to be. Clearly, as anyone who has been through either terminal at DUB on a busy day knows, there's going to be a lot of difficulty with social distancing, so presumably masks will be a requirement:

Masks alone won't do the job and I think all workplaces and public spaces (including airports) will be mandated to enforce physical distancing. DAA would be foolish not to be planning for this when non-essential commercial flying resumes to some extent later in the year. It won't be as big an issue at other Irish airports given the low level of demand projected. The situation on board aircraft is likely to be a different story. I don't see EI or FR blocking off seats and airlines may get an exemption to the physical distancing rules subject to other measures being put in place (e.g. mandatory mask-wearing, temperature screening checks pre- and post- flight, passenger health declarations, quarantine on arrival etc.).
 
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shamrock604
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sat May 02, 2020 12:30 pm

kaitak wrote:
The government had launched its 5-phase roadmap for return to normality (or as close as we can get); it's not absolutely clear from it when flights will return to normal, though Phase 5 seems to be the most likely; it relates to a return to work for those employees not covered in the first four phases, which aviation and air travel doesn't seem to be. Clearly, as anyone who has been through either terminal at DUB on a busy day knows, there's going to be a lot of difficulty with social distancing, so presumably masks will be a requirement:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1445473

In other news, FR is said to have set a deadline of mid May to reach a deal with Boeing on a new deal for 737 Maxes


The “return to work” provisions don’t apply to airline workers. As transport, it’s an essential service and staff could in theory, go back to work today.
 
wexfordflyer
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sat May 02, 2020 3:18 pm

AmricanShamrok wrote:
kaitak wrote:
The government had launched its 5-phase roadmap for return to normality (or as close as we can get); it's not absolutely clear from it when flights will return to normal, though Phase 5 seems to be the most likely; it relates to a return to work for those employees not covered in the first four phases, which aviation and air travel doesn't seem to be. Clearly, as anyone who has been through either terminal at DUB on a busy day knows, there's going to be a lot of difficulty with social distancing, so presumably masks will be a requirement:

Masks alone won't do the job and I think all workplaces and public spaces (including airports) will be mandated to enforce physical distancing. DAA would be foolish not to be planning for this when non-essential commercial flying resumes to some extent later in the year. It won't be as big an issue at other Irish airports given the low level of demand projected. The situation on board aircraft is likely to be a different story. I don't see EI or FR blocking off seats and airlines may get an exemption to the physical distancing rules subject to other measures being put in place (e.g. mandatory mask-wearing, temperature screening checks pre- and post- flight, passenger health declarations, quarantine on arrival etc.).


The thing about the physical distancing is that there's no point in doing it in airports, but then not on aircraft, and vice versa. I don't know how airlines will manage it, but I can't see them being given an outright exemption.
Come with me, there's a place I want you to see, where the leaves are dark, I've got a hiding place in central park.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sat May 02, 2020 6:22 pm

Foreign travel this year 'not looking good'

Orla O'Donnell
Minister for Health Simon Harris has said it is "not looking good" for foreign travel this year.

He said the advice at the moment was not to leave the island of Ireland and it was looking highly unlikely that people would be able to travel abroad for holidays later in the year.

www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0502/1136268-covid-19/
 
dstc47
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sat May 02, 2020 6:31 pm

[quote="
The thing about the physical distancing is that there's no point in doing it in airports, but then not on aircraft, and vice versa. I don't know how airlines will manage it, but I can't see them being given an outright exemption.[/quote]

Indeed.

A further problem is airport access, current seating limits make bus or coach services to/from the airport unlikely to be able to handle any reasonable level of demand that would support any level of profitable operation for air carriers. About 10% of previous bus capacity is available. So with the exception of taxis, still running while not meeting distancing in the main and private cars, getting to/from the airport becomes a problem also. With cars also, getting to and from the long term car park on socially distanced shuttle buses might be fun.

As for measuring temperature before flight, very many infected patients do not show any signs of high temperature at all.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sat May 02, 2020 7:26 pm

Keano757 wrote:
Eagleboy wrote:
That interview was a car crash. Murphy didn’t have actual facts to defend his statement. Pat Kenny even had to correct him by saying that WW had actually been a pilot after Murphy came out with “Willie Walsh doesn’t know what it’s like to be a worker in Aer Lingus”


My jaw dropped reading this. Is there a video of his interview? I mean, it's well documented that Willie Walsh was a pilot...a Wikipedia search covers it.


It's certainly well known and shouldn't need Wikipedia. In fairness however, it's been very long time since Walsh was an Aer Lingus pilot and it's certainly not the same Aer Lingus of those days.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sun May 03, 2020 12:35 pm

IAD-DUB is the latest route to hit the UA chopping block. It had been due to resume on 1st July but is pushed back to the winter now.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-02may20/

Also if anyone's on Instagram, there are a few very recent aerial shots of the new DUB runway which is coming along nicely. Use #dublinairport and choose the "Recent" option.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sun May 03, 2020 3:18 pm

Bigger reduction in Aer Lingus flights now expected for this summer

Aer Lingus expects to see a far bigger reduction in flights this summer than it had previously predicted, according to a report in the Sunday Independent.

Forecasts for June and July were revealed to union leaders by airline management at one of a number of crisis briefings. The airline had prepared a schedule for June that would see it fly 15 per cent of its normal flights, but the “realistic view is now closer to 5 per cent ”. The “best case” for July had been a less than 20 per cent schedule, but it would now be “significantly lower” than that

www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-m ... 0?mode=amp
 
kaitak
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sun May 03, 2020 5:13 pm

Based on what Simon Harris said, I don't see how they can plan on any increase at all. Hopefully things will change later in the year, but really, 2020 is pretty much a bust for all airlines and realistically, until a vaccine is available, I don't see flights resuming at anything more than a trickle.

That said, numbers of flights in Asia seem to be increasing; how are they coping and managing a return to higher frequencies?
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Sun May 03, 2020 8:12 pm

Third flight of U2-bought PPE for health workers lands in Dublin
Plane carrying 2.1 million face masks and 32,000 surgical gowns arrives from China

A third flight carrying two million face masks and 32,000 surgical gowns for Irish healthcare workers, purchased by rock band U2, landed at Dublin Airport from China on Sunday morning.

The shipment is the latest in a series of consignments paid for by the Dublin musicians from a €10 million donation, sourced from Chinese suppliers by Cork businessman Liam Casey of PCH International and flown back on a flight organised by Dublin aircraft leasing company Avolon.

The flight, an Airbus A330, arrived in Dublin Airport from Shenzhen in China on Sunday morning with the cargo belly space underneath and passenger cabin containing the personal protective equipment (PPE).

www.irishtimes.com/news/health/third-fl ... -1.4243887
 
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shamrock350
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 6:45 pm

Aer Lingus getting a lot of negative attention over this tweet.

https://twitter.com/KellyBonner/status/ ... 2400831491

Shows a packed BHD-LHR flight this morning. The airline is being accused of not implementing social distancing.

Personally, I'm not sure what people were expecting. There has been no government guidance on social distancing for air travel, and even if there was it's very unlikely any of it would be realistically possible or even effective in reducing transmission on board an aircraft.

In my opinion, if you make the decision to fly at this time, you are responsible for your own health and well being until governments, airlines and airport operators agree a suitable and realistic programme for social distancing which, in all honesty, may never happen due to the difficulty implementing it and the effectiveness or lack thereof.
 
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OA260
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 7:31 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
Aer Lingus getting a lot of negative attention over this tweet.

https://twitter.com/KellyBonner/status/ ... 2400831491

Shows a packed BHD-LHR flight this morning. The airline is being accused of not implementing social distancing.

Personally, I'm not sure what people were expecting. There has been no government guidance on social distancing for air travel, and even if there was it's very unlikely any of it would be realistically possible or even effective in reducing transmission on board an aircraft.

In my opinion, if you make the decision to fly at this time, you are responsible for your own health and well being until governments, airlines and airport operators agree a suitable and realistic programme for social distancing which, in all honesty, may never happen due to the difficulty implementing it and the effectiveness or lack thereof.


Firstly I wonder how many of those are essential journeys and the police should be interviewing people before they board. Anyone deemed not travelling for essential reasons should be turned back. Secondly the number of seats available to be booked could be reduced to keep middle seat free. Thirdly Aer Lingus could follow other airlines and have a no mask no fly policy. So quite a few things that could be done and two of them do not require any government direction. While most of us adhere to the rules and are split from family and loved ones seeing packed planes is a bit of a kick in the teeth. I do get the backlash this time to be honest. Most of it directed to the passengers themselves unless it really is essential travel which I doubt.
 
User001
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Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 7:44 pm

Cnt help but feel the Aer Lingus picture is another example of 'selective outrage'.

Blasting all those on the flight, questioning if they are essential travel, yet travelling yourself? Do as I say not as I do comes to mind.

It's like over here in the UK, small local take aways have been open throughout lockdown available for take-out, and no one bat's an eyelid. The second Mcdonalds say they want to do the same (just drive through) it's apparently a dangerous situation, thus selective outrage.

The simple fact is, the economy can't be on lockdown forever, the govts will run out of money, so, we have to find ways of living with this virus until a vaccine is found.

Social distancing cannot be achieved in an aircraft, the spaces are so small it's a near physical impossibility. Leaving the middle seat free is a folly, as it doesn't account for the seat behind you and its still less than 2m between A and C seats for example. People then have a right to use a bathroom, and thus have to walk past those in the aisle seats sometimes even touching them accidently, I travel a lot and see a lot of accidental touching as people put out legs or just happen to out stretch an arm at the wrong time. Leaving rows free for social distancing then also adds an unsubstantial economy element to it.

Simply, there is no right answer in all of this.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 24041
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 8:22 pm

User001 wrote:
Cnt help but feel the Aer Lingus picture is another example of 'selective outrage'.

Blasting all those on the flight, questioning if they are essential travel, yet travelling yourself? Do as I say not as I do comes to mind.

.


Agree with that generally she is a BBC NI Journalist but what was her reason to be on the flight also? Maybe she should clarify if it has not been done already. Despite journalists being classed as
essential that should not give people in those professions a free pass to just do what they want to. Also from what I can see and from what I have been told it does not seem that the cabin crew have any protection.

For the majority of right minded people they are taking it seriously and doing their bit to stay home and do the right thing but for a small selfish minority its all a bit of a joke. One cant help but wonder if these people need their own Boris Johnson moment to wake them up ! As for takeaways /Deliveroo/Justeat etc. I would not trust their hygiene in normal times let alone now!
 
marcogr12
Posts: 370
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 8:39 pm

This middle seat craze offers no protection at all and it's only gonna add to the cost of travelling resulting in higher airfares and no recovery of traffic numbers..The only thing pax can do is the same thing they have to do when travelling by public transport..Wear mask,gloves,sanitize..If Covid-tests start being offered at airports,like Vienna will do, it will be some sort of reassurance but there are certain parameters to be taken into account that complicate matters.. (will pax wait at the airport for the results?where will they wait as more keep coming? how long will these results be valid for? will pax pay for them?if so, a family of 4 for a 200euro test means 800euros added to the trip which makes it non-viable option..etc. etc..)
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
User001
Posts: 1051
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 9:00 pm

Wear mask,gloves,sanitize


Gloves is another misconception.

It's been stated quite extensively by medical professionals and scientists that gloves not being used correctly may actually help the spread.

You need to change gloves very very regularly for them to be effective, as you are less likely to sanitise or wash your hands wearing them, and thus anything you get on the gloves is then spread across several surfaces.
Gloves are best for cross contamination provention, such as touching something known to be covid positive and then taking gloves off and disposing of, then putting a new pair on.

So, without wanting to sound patronising, the majority of people would not know how to use gloves properly for them to be useful in preventing thr spread of covid.

Masks and hand sanitising/washing has be shown to be mostly sufficient in preventing spread. (sorry to go of thread)
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1794
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 9:42 pm

100% agree.
Ive have literally seen a passenger eating a sandwich while still wearing their gloves..... several wearing a mask so loosely that it was essentially on their chin, another 2-3 wearing gloves but taking their socks off.
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1762
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 10:22 pm

User001 wrote:
Wear mask,gloves,sanitize


Gloves is another misconception.

It's been stated quite extensively by medical professionals and scientists that gloves not being used correctly may actually help the spread.

You need to change gloves very very regularly for them to be effective, as you are less likely to sanitise or wash your hands wearing them, and thus anything you get on the gloves is then spread across several surfaces.
Gloves are best for cross contamination provention, such as touching something known to be covid positive and then taking gloves off and disposing of, then putting a new pair on.

So, without wanting to sound patronising, the majority of people would not know how to use gloves properly for them to be useful in preventing thr spread of covid.

Masks and hand sanitising/washing has be shown to be mostly sufficient in preventing spread. (sorry to go of thread)


Absolutely correct, folks just don't know how to use them.They are single use items and must be disposed of once used, just as if you were a chef (..as I now am), after handling raw chicken for example to prevent cross-contamination. I've know of folks putting gloves on at home, walking to the supermaket wearling them, then going indoors with them still on. Only for those same gloves to be removed and re-used the next time, pointless. Bizarrely, I've also seen folks wearing only ONE glove, that one baffles me.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
Hinkley
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:19 pm

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 10:35 pm

"Bizarrely, I've also seen folks wearing only ONE glove, that one baffles me."

M.J. fans?
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 24041
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 11:05 pm

Near-full flight without social distancing prompts Aer Lingus review

Airline reviewing processes after ‘unexpectedly high loads’ on Belfast-London service

In a statement, Aer Lingus said: “In light of the unexpectedly high loads on the Belfast-London Heathrow service this morning and the level of demand for the route, Aer Lingus is reviewing its processes and procedures applicable to the operation of this service.

“The safety and security of Aer Lingus’s customers and crew is our top priority and any process changes that are identified as being required will be implemented as a matter of urgency.” – Press Association

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-n ... 9?mode=amp
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Mon May 04, 2020 11:26 pm

OA260 wrote:
Near-full flight without social distancing prompts Aer Lingus review

Airline reviewing processes after ‘unexpectedly high loads’ on Belfast-London service

In a statement, Aer Lingus said: “In light of the unexpectedly high loads on the Belfast-London Heathrow service this morning and the level of demand for the route, Aer Lingus is reviewing its processes and procedures applicable to the operation of this service.

“The safety and security of Aer Lingus’s customers and crew is our top priority and any process changes that are identified as being required will be implemented as a matter of urgency.” – Press Association

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/ ... 9?mode=amp


With recent flights being combined some of the booked loads have been over 50% above fully booked. Granted at the moment it's fair to expect many may not be travelling now, but you need to be prepared for the small possibility of a lot of people "unexpectedly" turning up..
 
EI564
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:05 am

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Tue May 05, 2020 9:40 am

opticalilyushin wrote:
Granted at the moment it's fair to expect many may not be travelling now, but you need to be prepared for the small possibility of a lot of people "unexpectedly" turning up..

By not allowing half the people on the flight?
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Irish 5/20: April dragged, but May flies ...

Tue May 05, 2020 9:57 am

EI564 wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
Granted at the moment it's fair to expect many may not be travelling now, but you need to be prepared for the small possibility of a lot of people "unexpectedly" turning up..

By not allowing half the people on the flight?


The airline has to have an official policy on this first, rather than continuing to sell tickets. The flights have been busy like this for quite some time. It's only become an issue because someone decided to complain...plus even spacing passengers out doesn't get rid of the risk of catching the virus.

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