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777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 11:56 am

Just been looking at WLG departures for the morning and Sounds Air have 12 departures between 6am-12pm. Two NSN services at 6am and two BHE services within 5mins of each other at 7.20am! Sounds Air put out a facebook post on Monday with a request for info and it looks like they have had a good response back. No Picton services were planned for the time being but there is now a Picton service at 8.05am.

NZs first WLG departure is CHC at 8.15am with a few AKL NZ12** services. WLG-HLZ is already cancelled.
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zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 6:36 pm

Having just seen an Facebook post from AKL, about all the physical distancing requirements they have put in at the domestic terminal.

Makes me wonder why for the next couple of months they haven’t moved domestic over to the International terminal?

There is so few International flights It seems such as waste to tame everyone into the small domestic Terminal.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 6:47 pm

zkncj wrote:
Having just seen an Facebook post from AKL, about all the physical distancing requirements they have put in at the domestic terminal.

Makes me wonder why for the next couple of months they haven’t moved domestic over to the International terminal?

There is so few International flights It seems such as waste to tame everyone into the small domestic Terminal.

How would you do it though? Where would domestic aircraft go? What about regional? How would baggage systems work? Where would security screening go? Plus a number of other issues.

The simple fact is the international terminal is not set up to be split into a domestic and an international zone, and would require a fair bit of work to be able to do that. Given capacity is still going to be significantly reduced compared to pre-COVID-19 levels, there’s no reason to think the existing domestic terminal can’t handle the traffic that will be anticipated in the coming months.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 7:31 pm

Plus it would add confusion to the flying public who are so used to taking domestic flights already from the domestic terminal and not from the international terminal. Also domestic flights use specific kinds of ground handling equipment that is not available over at international so moving the flights is a very complicated situation to undertake.
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 12:06 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Air New Zealand adds further domestic flights for Alert Level 2

Additional routes to resume during Level 2 (in addition to what was announced on Friday 8 May) include
Auckland to/from Christchurch to/from Wellington to/from
Blenheim (from 1 June) Hamilton (from 18 May) Dunedin (from 1 June)
Dunedin (from 1 June) Hokitika (from 25 May)
Rotorua (from 25 May) Tauranga (from 1 June)

more:
https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-r ... rt-level-2

So the only two centers without a service is Taupo and Timaru. I see the schedules have really increased from June 1. With the CHC to WLG route at 14 ATRs per day wow must be a big increase in demand, wonder if we will be at level 1 by then hopefully!!!


Hopefully that should help some of the pricing too! defiantly going up with demand very fast the moment.

Seems like all the AKL-WLG should really be A321NEO's instead of A320s.


I just booked AKL-CHC-AKL for end of May, and NZ519 is now A321NEO :-)
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 5:03 am

777ER wrote:
Just been looking at WLG departures for the morning and Sounds Air have 12 departures between 6am-12pm. Two NSN services at 6am and two BHE services within 5mins of each other at 7.20am! Sounds Air put out a facebook post on Monday with a request for info and it looks like they have had a good response back. No Picton services were planned for the time being but there is now a Picton service at 8.05am.

NZs first WLG departure is CHC at 8.15am with a few AKL NZ12** services. WLG-HLZ is already cancelled.


There has been a scheduling error with Soundsair so they're actually operating significantly less services than it looks, usually 1-2am services and 1pm service on weekdays
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 7:28 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
There is so few International flights It seems such as waste to tame everyone into the small domestic Terminal.

How would you do it though? Where would domestic aircraft go? What about regional? How would baggage systems work? Where would security screening go? Plus a number of other issues.

The simple fact is the international terminal is not set up to be split into a domestic and an international zone, and would require a fair bit of work to be able to do that. Given capacity is still going to be significantly reduced compared to pre-COVID-19 levels, there’s no reason to think the existing domestic terminal can’t handle the traffic that will be anticipated in the coming months.
[/quote]

The international facilities are simply not required at the moment, some days there is current zero International passenger flights others there is an max of two flights.

International flights could be handled with buses an pop-up customs area at Peer B when required.

Regional flights could simply use the gate 4A-D, while parking the props over gates 1-4 etc.

NZ516 wrote:
Plus it would add confusion to the flying public who are so used to taking domestic flights already from the domestic terminal and not from the international terminal. Also domestic flights use specific kinds of ground handling equipment that is not available over at international so moving the flights is a very complicated situation to undertake.


Wouldn't cause confusion if they blocked the access road to the domestic terminal, with clear signage.

What ground equipment is so special at domestic? most of it can be driven the 1km to the other terminal.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 12:57 am

What ground equipment is so special at domestic? most of it can be driven the 1km to the other terminal.


There is specific equipment used on domestic flights like trolleys, barrows, people in guidance (PIGS), ramps PBRs, stairs, signs etc its a lot that is not so obvious to the travelling public. Too much to re establish at the intl terminal and it is reconfigured differently as well. So best to run with the current set up not all can be driven over would have to be loaded onto trucks a secured down even for that short hop. Especially if International tasman might come back in a months time.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 8:24 am

NZ516 wrote:
What ground equipment is so special at domestic? most of it can be driven the 1km to the other terminal.


There is specific equipment used on domestic flights like trolleys, barrows, people in guidance (PIGS), ramps PBRs, stairs, signs etc its a lot that is not so obvious to the travelling public. Too much to re establish at the intl terminal and it is reconfigured differently as well. So best to run with the current set up not all can be driven over would have to be loaded onto trucks a secured down even for that short hop. Especially if International tasman might come back in a months time.


I'd be shocked if international Tasman.is coming back in a months time. Best case scenario being discussed on this side of the ditch is September. We're not likely to have all states open to interstate travel in the next couple of months.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 8:33 am

NTLDaz wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
What ground equipment is so special at domestic? most of it can be driven the 1km to the other terminal.


There is specific equipment used on domestic flights like trolleys, barrows, people in guidance (PIGS), ramps PBRs, stairs, signs etc its a lot that is not so obvious to the travelling public. Too much to re establish at the intl terminal and it is reconfigured differently as well. So best to run with the current set up not all can be driven over would have to be loaded onto trucks a secured down even for that short hop. Especially if International tasman might come back in a months time.


I'd be shocked if international Tasman.is coming back in a months time. Best case scenario being discussed on this side of the ditch is September. We're not likely to have all states open to interstate travel in the next couple of months.

Discussion in industry on this side of the ditch is pointing to July, but presumably this is the best-case scenario.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
anstar
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 8:42 am

Australian states won't open up until July based on all the premiers talk and the 3 step plan. So I cant see Trans Tasman opening up before that. I'd expect it to be 3-4 weeks after the states open up. So Late August, September.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 10:21 am

Air New Zealand will restart flights to and from Taupo and Timaru on 8 June.

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-r ... u-services

Both destinations will be served 3 weekly which is less than what Hokitika is getting. Surely I thought at least a daily service would be the minimum perhaps more flights will come in July. With this move all 20 domestic destinations will all be served.
 
Whoopeecock
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 10:50 am

 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 11:10 am

Air Kaikoura is to start a new service linking the town to Wellington the tickets seem very reasonable $150 each way for an adult.

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2020/05/ ... ll-be.html
 
LYuen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 11:14 am

anstar wrote:
Australian states won't open up until July based on all the premiers talk and the 3 step plan. So I cant see Trans Tasman opening up before that. I'd expect it to be 3-4 weeks after the states open up. So Late August, September.

If the earliest possible time is late August, I think our labour-lead government will not risk it until after the general election.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 15, 2020 11:33 pm

Sounds Air outlines reduced initial operation from mid-May 2020

New Zealand’s Sounds Air yesterday (14MAY20) resumed operation, as New Zealand moved to Alert Level 2. Initially the airline will operate 5 scheduled routes with reduced frequencies.

Blenheim – Christchurch eff 18MAY20 3 weekly
Wellington – Blenheim eff 14MAY20 19 weekly
Wellington – Nelson eff 14MAY20 13 weekly
Wellington – Taupo eff 18MAY20 3 weekly
Wellington – Westport eff 15MAY20 3 weekly

The airlie’s following service will be served on ad-hoc by demand basis, according to the airline:
Blenheim – Paraparaumu
Nelson – Paraparaumu
Wellington – Picton

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -may-2020/


First time that I have seen a update and entry from Airlineroute on Sounds air normally it is only reserved for the big airlines around the world.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 1:05 am

Whoopeecock wrote:


CHC would of had an lot of capacity free up recently, one would assume there bussiness of servicing VA’s 738s has disappeared recently.

Do also expect the regional fleet to take an massive hit soon, the 8 times an day on some regional routes surely requires allot of international tourism demand to make them break even.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 16, 2020 2:26 am

Photo of Etihad's first visit to NZ, the flight also departed NZ with 35 tonnes of meat and fresh produce bound for the UAE

Image

https://twitter.com/SpeedBird_NCL/statu ... 13824?s=20
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NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 3:06 am

Christchurch Airport is having a doubling of flights from 12 departures today and going to 25 departures tomorrow. Demand must be taking off literally. This is a good start to the recovery hopefully it will continue going up every bit helps.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 3:46 am

NZ516 wrote:
Christchurch Airport is having a doubling of flights from 12 departures today and going to 25 departures tomorrow. Demand must be taking off literally. This is a good start to the recovery hopefully it will continue going up every bit helps.


Now we just need JQ back (as much as I love to hate them), they are an important part of keeping the New Zealand market fare.

Even more to help encourage domestic tourism to re-boot, and NZ not keeping up with demand on some routes.

If JQ was back I’m sure NZ would be providing allot more seats than they are currently are, and people travelling in the next week would almost double.

Allot of companies an very happy for employee’s to be using A/L at the moment as it’s helps there balance sheets, along with an bunch of Aucklanders willing to escape the city for an break. There are great deals on hotels etc, now we just need the flights to be able to get to these spots.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 4:24 am

NZ516 wrote:
Christchurch Airport is having a doubling of flights from 12 departures today and going to 25 departures tomorrow. Demand must be taking off literally. This is a good start to the recovery hopefully it will continue going up every bit helps.


Given NZ are required to serve all ports it's likely more the point that several routes are resuming, more will resume over the next few weeks, how full some flights are remains to be seen though I concede I actually have no idea with travel now allowed but I personally would read to much into the increase in flights yet.
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 5:09 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Christchurch Airport is having a doubling of flights from 12 departures today and going to 25 departures tomorrow. Demand must be taking off literally. This is a good start to the recovery hopefully it will continue going up every bit helps.


Given NZ are required to serve all ports it's likely more the point that several routes are resuming, more will resume over the next few weeks, how full some flights are remains to be seen though I concede I actually have no idea with travel now allowed but I personally would read to much into the increase in flights yet.

Only CHC-HLZ is restarting this week, so the rest would have to be service increases
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Whoopeecock
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 11:57 am

zkncj wrote:
Allot of companies an very happy for employee’s to be using A/L at the moment as it’s helps there balance sheets, along with an bunch of Aucklanders willing to escape the city for an break. There are great deals on hotels etc, now we just need the flights to be able to get to these spots.


It’s the same with the ferries. With one sailing a day, they’re sold out weeks in advance. How can Kiwis travel domestically and support tourism if there’s no seats, or at least at reasonable rates?
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 8:37 pm

777ER wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Christchurch Airport is having a doubling of flights from 12 departures today and going to 25 departures tomorrow. Demand must be taking off literally. This is a good start to the recovery hopefully it will continue going up every bit helps.


Given NZ are required to serve all ports it's likely more the point that several routes are resuming, more will resume over the next few weeks, how full some flights are remains to be seen though I concede I actually have no idea with travel now allowed but I personally would read to much into the increase in flights yet.

Only CHC-HLZ is restarting this week, so the rest would have to be service increases


Certainly a few extra services added lately with all the NZ12XX flight numbers which are not listed on the schedules. With the restrictions it doesn't take long to fill up the flights eg 25 max for a Q300 and 33 for the ATR and around 100 for a 320. The restricted flying will be hardly breaking even though. The same running costs spread over less sold seats.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 17, 2020 9:25 pm

Whoopeecock wrote:
It’s the same with the ferries. With one sailing a day, they’re sold out weeks in advance. How can Kiwis travel domestically and support tourism if there’s no seats, or at least at reasonable rates?

I guess it depends on what you think are "reasonable" rates. IMO we have become used to unsustainably low fares on a means of transport which has de facto been heavily subsidised for ever and which is now facing a crunch point. If we were serious about sustainability we'd have a heavy tax on aviation fuel, just like we do on road transport and emissions offsets would be compulsory and built into fares and controlled by central government.

I love the fact that you can (used to be able to) fly from one end of the country to the other for little more than an hour or two or three's worth of income. But we all know deep down that this is not a viable model for the survival of the planet. You could argue that covid-19 has done us all a favour by putting a much-needed focus on aviation. Of course as an av-and-travel-geek I'm disappointed at the lost opportunities to travel, which I have in the past utilised to the max in getting to many faraway places that I'd never have otherwise gone. But we now know that (1) it IS possible to do business remotely and it's also cheaper, and (2) that air travel is inherently risky from a health perspective. Time also to call it out for what it is: a squandering of global resources that has few parallels in modern society. I know it's heresy to suggest it in this environment, but it would actually be a good thing for air travel not to return to "normal" and for fares not to incentivise wasteful behavior.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 18, 2020 9:24 pm

Fun question for people. Do we think the new Cessna SkyCourier could be a good fit for regional NZ use? From memory one of the reasons that Air NZ dropped the B1900D is that it was too expensive to operate for what it was able to earn. Something appreciably cheaper designed for short lower altitude hops could fit really well for NZ.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437387
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 18, 2020 11:09 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Fun question for people. Do we think the new Cessna SkyCourier could be a good fit for regional NZ use? From memory one of the reasons that Air NZ dropped the B1900D is that it was too expensive to operate for what it was able to earn. Something appreciably cheaper designed for short lower altitude hops could fit really well for NZ.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437387


I was thinking about this, definitely potential. 16 seater pax, 9 seater combi 1x LD3 and 3x LD3 containers for freight. Ideal for flexibility of operating whatever suits on the day demand. Also think about the fact that FX has a contracted 734F to SYD, extend that out to a fleet of these that can accept 3x LD3 AKE cans and you have an aircraft capable of transporting perishable export freight out of the provinces. LD3 AKE cans are standard fitment on widebodies so they could easily come off a Cessna and straight onto any 787/777 or FX/SQ/DHL/Atlas freighter. In fact there is real potential for an operator of the full freighter to maintain supply contracts to the regions for any of those big operators. 1x daily flight might have a booking of 3 LD3s 1x DHL 1x FX 1x NZ Post. AC yesterday for example had a number of LD3s capable of being packed with dry ice and loaded with perishable produce/meat/seafood. Very useful for BHE/NSN and a number of other ports with a significant demand from exporters. The aircraft has the range to fly from anywhere in NZ including CHT (900nm).
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Brucekn
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 1:06 am

I’m an ex-pat Kiwi in the US. We were planning a trip down there to see family in June, and we know that won’t happen. Is there any visibility to when flight from the US to AKL will resume? I imagine the presence of a vaccine would be a requirement. Just wondering what people in New Zealand are hearing. Thanks.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 1:57 am

IIRC flights between US and NZ are still going.

The thing stopping more passengers is that we're unlikely to open our borders to non-residents until a treatment or vaccine is found.
 
Some1Somewhere
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 9:38 am

Not just found, but found, tested, approved, manufactured, and rolled out to most of the population. We also might not be the first to get it, assuming there are places with substantial ongoing outbreaks when it starts becoming available in moderate quantities.

You might be able to get in earlier than that if you go through a 2-3 week quarantine and repeated testing... but not yet and not for a while.
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 10:22 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Whoopeecock wrote:
It’s the same with the ferries. With one sailing a day, they’re sold out weeks in advance. How can Kiwis travel domestically and support tourism if there’s no seats, or at least at reasonable rates?

I guess it depends on what you think are "reasonable" rates. IMO we have become used to unsustainably low fares on a means of transport which has de facto been heavily subsidised for ever and which is now facing a crunch point. If we were serious about sustainability we'd have a heavy tax on aviation fuel, just like we do on road transport and emissions offsets would be compulsory and built into fares and controlled by central government.

I love the fact that you can (used to be able to) fly from one end of the country to the other for little more than an hour or two or three's worth of income. But we all know deep down that this is not a viable model for the survival of the planet. You could argue that covid-19 has done us all a favour by putting a much-needed focus on aviation. Of course as an av-and-travel-geek I'm disappointed at the lost opportunities to travel, which I have in the past utilised to the max in getting to many faraway places that I'd never have otherwise gone. But we now know that (1) it IS possible to do business remotely and it's also cheaper, and (2) that air travel is inherently risky from a health perspective. Time also to call it out for what it is: a squandering of global resources that has few parallels in modern society. I know it's heresy to suggest it in this environment, but it would actually be a good thing for air travel not to return to "normal" and for fares not to incentivise wasteful behavior.


Totally with you here, David! I love to travel, and I am also generally very conscious about sustainability (local buying, EV, solar panels, on tank water, etc.). So my love for flying and travelling has always been my ethical dilemma. We need to be "forced" to travel more sustainably, which is a tricky issue. Especially for all those people who do this as a once-a-year saved up main holiday or even a longer saved up once-in-a-lifetime trip. I would not want those to be restricted too much. But those who are doing multiple trips a year, often relatively over long distances for very short periods of time (from a weekend in OZ to just a few days in Japan), or in the case of Europe all those LCC flights from London to Paris for a coffee, from Frankfurt to Rome for shopping, all the stag/hen's trips, etc (just examples).

In terms of business, I agree that some business can be done online/remotely, and replace travel. But I know many colleagues (myself included) that are already getting very tired of, and frustrated with, endless zoom/teams/skype meetings. People feel exhausted after online meetings and classes, much more than after face-to-face meetings/classes. Having said that, the current situation showed us what is indeed possible, and I see a mix in the future, i.e. some face-to-face contact and some remote contact. Lastly, in another thread somebody made a good point: We tend to think that "business travel" is for meetings and negotiations, but that is only a part of it. There are lots of experts (mechanics, engineers, etc) that need to be on the ground and physically work on the actual project, so that part of business travel cannot be replaced by online meetings.

So, I totally agree with you - we need to have a good look at what we want and need for the future of (air) travel, and make some tough decisions. My fear is that because all economies are/will be in dire straits in the near future, the opposite will be that case, i.e. for the sake of getting the economy going again, environmental (and social/cultural) concerns will be put aside...

Thanks for the great post!
micha
 
reboundnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 11:03 pm

Brucekn wrote:
I’m an ex-pat Kiwi in the US. We were planning a trip down there to see family in June, and we know that won’t happen. Is there any visibility to when flight from the US to AKL will resume? I imagine the presence of a vaccine would be a requirement. Just wondering what people in New Zealand are hearing. Thanks.


I doubt the boarders outside of a AU-NZ-PI bubble will open in 2020
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 11:12 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
If we were serious about sustainability we'd have a heavy tax on aviation fuel, just like we do on road transport and emissions offsets would be compulsory and built into fares and controlled by central government.

I love the fact that you can (used to be able to) fly from one end of the country to the other for little more than an hour or two or three's worth of income. But we all know deep down that this is not a viable model for the survival of the planet.


We actually don't. I love science, and the scientific model. Science gave us air travel. Science is the best we have. But "modelling" science is the most unreliable branch of science there is and the best scientific models are often still pretty bad. Look at Covid-19 modelling if you need an example. Yeah, right now the weight of opinion & evidence suggests anthropogenic CO2 production is detrimental to the planet. But do we KNOW this? No.

davidbyrne wrote:
You could argue that covid-19 has done us all a favour by putting a much-needed focus on aviation. Of course as an av-and-travel-geek I'm disappointed at the lost opportunities to travel, which I have in the past utilised to the max in getting to many faraway places that I'd never have otherwise gone. But we now know that (1) it IS possible to do business remotely and it's also cheaper, and (2) that air travel is inherently risky from a health perspective.


I'm with you here. As I said in an earlier month - and got lambasted by NZ6 - airlines have long sacrificed hygiene and health for the sake of money. Pre-Covid, airline cleanliness standards had declined over time to a disgusting standard in the interests of speeding turnaround and increasing revenue. Surfaces including tray tables rarely, if ever wiped. Food preparation surfaces dirty. Galleys located right next to toilets. Toilets uninhabitable 1 hour into a flight. Airlines cashed in on the fact that the diseases one would get from such lapses - ie. E.Coli diarrhea, a cold or flu would be unlikely to cause major morbidity. So they got away with it. Covid-19 will hopefully have a long lasting positive impact on a lot of these practices.

davidbyrne wrote:
Time also to call it out for what it is: a squandering of global resources that has few parallels in modern society. I know it's heresy to suggest it in this environment, but it would actually be a good thing for air travel not to return to "normal" and for fares not to incentivise wasteful behavior.


I think you're being a *little* bit "Old Testament" here. It's also disingenuous to assume that everyone on a $99 fare to OOL is popping over for a weekend to play pokies or smoke meth, and wouldn't otherwise do so were the fares not so cheap. What constitutes "wasteful behaviour" in terms of travel is a hugely subjective judgement call and we are in dangerous ground as a society if that's a call we start to make. I do, however applaud the fact the fact that airlines won't be seen as bottomless revenue generators for shareholders for some time yet - if ever again. As a fare paying passenger with zero interest in the airline sharemarket, this can only be good news.
 
User avatar
MillwallSean
Posts: 973
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:07 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 3:01 am

DavidByrne wrote:
I love the fact that you can (used to be able to) fly from one end of the country to the other for little more than an hour or two or three's worth of income. But we all know deep down that this is not a viable model for the survival of the planet.


I don't know that this is a viable model, to the contrary I think travel essential for the survival of our planet. the industralisation has brought enormous technological leaps and travel is a key facilitator for this. we need more not less travel.
What we can discuss is why there has not been the same pressure on aviation as it has been on some other industries in regards to efficiency improvements of its products. However thats at an intra governmental level and well, were an island in the pacific of 5 million depending on airtravel for our economy.

Gasman wrote:
I'm with you here. As I said in an earlier month - and got lambasted by NZ6 - airlines have long sacrificed hygiene and health for the sake of money. Pre-Covid, airline cleanliness standards had declined over time to a disgusting standard in the interests of speeding turnaround and increasing revenue. Surfaces including tray tables rarely, if ever wiped. Food preparation surfaces dirty. Galleys located right next to toilets. Toilets uninhabitable 1 hour into a flight. Airlines cashed in on the fact that the diseases one would get from such lapses - ie. E.Coli diarrhea, a cold or flu would be unlikely to cause major morbidity. So they got away with it. Covid-19 will hopefully have a long lasting positive impact on a lot of these practices.


This is so true. The cleanliness of passenger areas are bordering on criminal and airlines have gotten away with it. All in the name of the short turnarounds that is sought. c;leaning after one passenger seem to be crew emptying seatpockets rather than cleaning and wiping down ALL contact areas. Wed never accept this at a restaurant but in planes we are supposed to find this ok. Strange world and I believe we need some government regulation introduced here. The flying staff is likely to get additional duties added to their position descriptions.

davidbyrne wrote:
Time also to call it out for what it is: a squandering of global resources that has few parallels in modern society. I know it's heresy to suggest it in this environment, but it would actually be a good thing for air travel not to return to "normal" and for fares not to incentivise wasteful behavior.


Thats politics, your wasteful behaviour is my economic growth. ideologies differ and I see ravel as something we should encourage rathger than see as wasteful but each to their own.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2202
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 4:43 am

MillwallSean wrote:
This is so true. The cleanliness of passenger areas are bordering on criminal and airlines have gotten away with it.


And that's the point. It's NOT criminal, but it should be. Maybe now customers - and the regulatory authorities - will start to wake up to it.

MillwallSean wrote:
davidbyrne wrote:
Time also to call it out for what it is: a squandering of global resources that has few parallels in modern society. I know it's heresy to suggest it in this environment, but it would actually be a good thing for air travel not to return to "normal" and for fares not to incentivise wasteful behavior.


Thats politics, your wasteful behaviour is my economic growth. ideologies differ and I see ravel as something we should encourage rathger than see as wasteful but each to their own.


I'm with you MillwallSean, it would be disturbingly Orwellian to go down a path of "my travel is noble and valid; but yours isn't". No thanks. Although on some level, one can also concede David has a point. The tour operators who opened up the Spanish coast to hordes of English bogans must surely have some talking to do come judgement day.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3867
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 5:53 am

With conformation this afternoon, that the Tasman boarders could open at Level 2.

Could we expect an anncoument in the next week?
 
jimmyah
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:53 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 6:25 am

zkncj wrote:
With conformation this afternoon, that the Tasman boarders could open at Level 2.

Could we expect an anncoument in the next week?


Nah, Aussie still haven't sorted out their state borders yet. Until they are on the same page nothing will happen trans-tasman.
 
anstar
Posts: 3274
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 7:16 am

zkncj wrote:
With conformation this afternoon, that the Tasman boarders could open at Level 2.

Could we expect an anncoument in the next week?


Doubt TT will open until August/September once Aus states open up.
 
avier
Posts: 1108
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 11:46 am

Air India will operate a repatriation flight to Auckland in the first week of June '20. Dep from DEL on 4th June, and from AKL on 7th. The earlier schedule reflected Delhi - Wellington, but was updated yesterday to DEL-AKL.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 11:53 am

When do we expect passenger flights to reopen to Singapore /KL ? Any news?
Plane mad!
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1227
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 9:27 pm

Gasman wrote:
MillwallSean wrote:
This is so true. The cleanliness of passenger areas are bordering on criminal and airlines have gotten away with it.


And that's the point. It's NOT criminal, but it should be. Maybe now customers - and the regulatory authorities - will start to wake up to it.

MillwallSean wrote:
davidbyrne wrote:
Time also to call it out for what it is: a squandering of global resources that has few parallels in modern society. I know it's heresy to suggest it in this environment, but it would actually be a good thing for air travel not to return to "normal" and for fares not to incentivise wasteful behavior.


Thats politics, your wasteful behaviour is my economic growth. ideologies differ and I see ravel as something we should encourage rathger than see as wasteful but each to their own.


I'm with you MillwallSean, it would be disturbingly Orwellian to go down a path of "my travel is noble and valid; but yours isn't". No thanks. Although on some level, one can also concede David has a point. The tour operators who opened up the Spanish coast to hordes of English bogans must surely have some talking to do come judgement day.


wow - so your travel in/to/from NZ is noble, but the bogans travelling from the UK to Spain is not? Couldn't be more of a contradiction and judgement in one short paragraph... :sarcastic:
 
GW54
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:05 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 9:32 pm

Some1Somewhere wrote:
Not just found, but found, tested, approved, manufactured, and rolled out to most of the population. We also might not be the first to get it, assuming there are places with substantial ongoing outbreaks when it starts becoming available in moderate quantities.

You might be able to get in earlier than that if you go through a 2-3 week quarantine and repeated testing... but not yet and not for a while.


There is alot of work going into development of a vaccine. Equally there is also alot of work being done on testing which if successfull would allow screening of passengers at the departure point. Indications are that those developments may be available and provide a interim solution until a vaccine is available. Testing prior to departure and screening on arrival combined with rigourous contact tracing could be sufficient to see a relaxation at the border?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1031
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 11:07 pm

Jetstar is wanting to restart NZ domestic operations from July. https://rnz.liveblog.pro/lb-rnz/blogs/5 ... Eeditorial

The Qantas subsidiary Jetstar is hoping to restart domestic flights from July, but says that will depend on what regulations still apply.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8346
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 21, 2020 1:33 am

I have been back at the airport this week after 6 weeks away, stuck watching doom saying media reports and wondering what will come of the aviation/tourism industry and the millions of people of the world that rely on it for their careers and what I would return to work to find (or even if I would return at all). I have to say that I was expecting the worst and yes a sizeable number of colleagues will no longer have jobs by the end of this month. Now I am back at the airport working again for the time being, I feel far more positive that the moment the people are able they will choose to travel, and there are already signs of that. I was expecting US bound flights to be empty, but far from it. The US border is not closed except for ex UK.EU and China (and land borders of course)
Australia is also partially open, but individual approval for each passenger is required from Canberra before check in, I would expect the loads to be super light, but again for the reduced frequency that exists, the loads are not so bad, I had an A320 earlier in the week with 160 out of 165 seats booked! Already we see individuals making their own decisions to travel for a variety of reasons, My parents are in the 'at risk' age range, and they trialed a garden centre cafe with me having been self imposed housebound lock down since before it went to Level 4, and they had become very nervous about the outside world. But they wanted to gain undersranding/confidence in the new restrictions. They have since done it by themselves several times, and are talking of domestic travel in the space of 6 days. People are resilient and they like feeling good about themselves. That drives them to seek out activities that enable that to happen. I think you will see many using domestic flying as a trial run to build confidence on, once they are comfortable with the adjustments that have been made I feel confident they will look to quickly climb back on the international travel horse. Those of us that are compulsive travelers are already chomping at the bit even if we have to self quarantine on return for a while, especially if you have already cancelled travel plans and received travel credit for airlines around the world that we need to use asap. I personally have about $3000 tied up in credit for the airlines that refused outright refunds.

I have seen a few opinions regarding air travel on here that I disagree with, I say live and let people live the way they want to live. If you don't like to travel don't do it, or if you do like to travel fly as much or as little as you want to wherever takes your fancy. If you want to pay for carbon credits, good for you but that doesn't mean I have to - it's a choice and one size doesn't fit all. Don't expect the rest of us to be miserable without the choice to live our own lives the way we want as well. Freedom and self destiny is a right of everyone, friends, allies and foe included to choose what is best for themselves and their circumstances and self-manage the risk accordingly.
Those advocating we apply more authoritarian restrictions during this depression will just prolong the agony and amplify the financial and psychological impact far beyond the viral impact on the populationr. Anyone who is currently under the cloud of redundancy can attest to already feeling out of control without the ignominy of not being able to choose the life they want to lead once they are back on their feet.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 21, 2020 4:48 am

Air New Zealand announces 3500 job losses due to Covid-19 pandemic

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zea ... 7D6SmSSXd8

This was a bleak statement.:
They are trying their very best to keep the last remaining 9000 jobs from going. Fingers crossed they will be successful!!!
 
zkncj
Posts: 3867
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 21, 2020 6:19 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Jetstar is wanting to restart NZ domestic operations from July. https://rnz.liveblog.pro/lb-rnz/blogs/5 ... Eeditorial

The Qantas subsidiary Jetstar is hoping to restart domestic flights from July, but says that will depend on what regulations still apply.


Hopefully they do, NZ needs the motivation to keep things moving.

Take they are wanting not to leave the middle seat empty like Qantas is planning domesticity in Australia. With passengers in Y required to wear face masks instead.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2834
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 21, 2020 7:34 am

NZ516 wrote:
Air New Zealand announces 3500 job losses due to Covid-19 pandemic
This was a bleak statement.:
They are trying their very best to keep the last remaining 9000 jobs from going. Fingers crossed they will be successful!!!

I'm sure someone here can put a positive spin on the above- unicorns and all. Then again, the Shanghai crew base closure wasn't deemed important...
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8346
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 21, 2020 1:36 pm

eta unknown wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Air New Zealand announces 3500 job losses due to Covid-19 pandemic
This was a bleak statement.:
They are trying their very best to keep the last remaining 9000 jobs from going. Fingers crossed they will be successful!!!

I'm sure someone here can put a positive spin on the above- unicorns and all. Then again, the Shanghai crew base closure wasn't deemed important...

Nothing positive to say about the numbers. It's a bloodbath and probably the first of several rounds. I hope it was all completely necessary. Let's see over time whether the right decisions have been made.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Gasman
Posts: 2202
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 21, 2020 6:09 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
Nothing positive to say about the numbers. It's a bloodbath and probably the first of several rounds. I hope it was all completely necessary. Let's see over time whether the right decisions have been made.


It seems on surface that the proclamations of the doomsayers have been accepted at face value. It's not impossible, for example, for Covid-19 to be a distant memory in six months.

But while NZ loves to portray itself as some sort of family business, the reality is it's answerable to the shareholders, and no one else. Taking a risk on a big picture long view is simply not permitted. If you're hemorrhaging money with an uncertain medium term future, you shut it down.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 8:42 pm

Gasman wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
Nothing positive to say about the numbers. It's a bloodbath and probably the first of several rounds. I hope it was all completely necessary. Let's see over time whether the right decisions have been made.


It seems on surface that the proclamations of the doomsayers have been accepted at face value. It's not impossible, for example, for Covid-19 to be a distant memory in six months.

But while NZ loves to portray itself as some sort of family business, the reality is it's answerable to the shareholders, and no one else. Taking a risk on a big picture long view is simply not permitted. If you're hemorrhaging money with an uncertain medium term future, you shut it down.


Certainly hemorrhaging money now with the social distance requirements but I would not agree with the shut it down statement. More like a downsizing to meet up with the new demand curve.

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