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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 pm

zkncj wrote:
Then they aren’t making it simple to get to the airport, SkyBus still isn’t operating (hopefully an reason for them to have there contract axed). AKL isn’t doing any parking deals, Park and Ride is closed.

The faster than New Zealand moves to Level 1 one, the better than chance of us still having an travel industry in 6months time.

Skybus doesn't have a contract. It operates as it pleases "in association with AT", but it's a very loose association that gives pretty much zero public control over one of the key public transport routes. Blame the National party, who exempted Skybus and the Devonport and Waiheke ferries from the legislative requirements that all other PT had to adhere to because they were lobbied by their business mates. With a bit of luck they'll voluntarily go cap in hand to AT and ask for the public subsidy and give up their control in exchange. As happened with Fullers and the Stanley Bay ferry a few years ago. Then we might get comparable fares to the airport that people going to other destinations get.

I agree that the faster we get to Level 1, the better the chance of having an airline industry in the future. But let's not put the future of the airline industry (or any industry) ahead of public health. That's the kind of Trumpian response to the virus that has led to the USA becoming the world champion of coronavirus. And we have to remember that a second wave would arguably do even more damage to the industry should that occur. Caution and slow deliberate steps are the best way forward both for the airline industry and public health.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 11:28 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Skybus doesn't have a contract. It operates as it pleases "in association with AT", but it's a very loose association that gives pretty much zero public control over one of the key public transport routes. Blame the National party, who exempted Skybus and the Devonport and Waiheke ferries from the legislative requirements that all other PT had to adhere to because they were lobbied by their business mates. With a bit of luck they'll voluntarily go cap in hand to AT and ask for the public subsidy and give up their control in exchange. As happened with Fullers and the Stanley Bay ferry a few years ago. Then we might get comparable fares to the airport that people going to other destinations get.


Is there anything that would prevent AT from operating there own service to AKL? Or would that be in breach of some hand shake agreements ?

Surely AT could extend 2 per hour of its Mount Eden Services onto the Domestic terminal, and probably get good loads.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 11:29 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
I agree that the faster we get to Level 1, the better the chance of having an airline industry in the future. But let's not put the future of the airline industry (or any industry) ahead of public health. That's the kind of Trumpian response to the virus that has led to the USA becoming the world champion of coronavirus. And we have to remember that a second wave would arguably do even more damage to the industry should that occur. Caution and slow deliberate steps are the best way forward both for the airline industry and public health.


There will always be an Air New Zealand. It's as crucial a part of our basic infrastructure as is our roading network, education system and health system. Okay, the airline might not be a cash cow for a while - if ever - but it will always be "there".

There was a lot of understandable panic, and a small amount of irrational behaviour surrounding this virus. Human nature is similarly going to tend towards being over cautious when it comes time to switch the restrictions off. That tendency is going to take real strength from our leaders to overcome; but I sincerely hope that strength is there. Otherwise recovery from Covid-19 will be a lot harder and slower than it needs to be.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 11:37 pm

Gasman wrote:
There will always be an Air New Zealand. It's as crucial a part of our basic infrastructure as is our roading network, education system and health system. Okay, the airline might not be a cash cow for a while - if ever - but it will always be "there".




Always through this paint job would look good on A320/321, would be well suited to an Government controlled airline.



And NAC did do physical distancing pretty well on there 732s
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 11:44 pm

Ha!

Although don't forget "government owned" doesn't have to mean "government run". I'd love to see a government owned airline where all profits are reinvested in the airline, and the running of the airline is free of political interference.

Dreams are free.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 1:50 am

zkncj wrote:
Is there anything that would prevent AT from operating there own service to AKL? Or would that be in breach of some hand shake agreements ?

Surely AT could extend 2 per hour of its Mount Eden Services onto the Domestic terminal, and probably get good loads.

Not sure about the obstacles where you may have a public transport enterprise moving in on a private transport company's sole route and undercutting them. But that is in effect what AT proposes with light rail duplicating Skybus' route (sort of) in future. Given LR appears to be on the back burner in the post-covid world, a publicly-run bus alternative could be an interim step. But it would probably face some sort of legal challenge (on what grounds I've no idea) from Skybus, who wouldn't just roll over and cede their patronage. More likely that Skybus will find survival tough and ask to be let in to the AT network, but even that seems less likely than keeping their independence.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 2:00 am

DavidByrne wrote:
But it would probably face some sort of legal challenge (on what grounds I've no idea) from Skybus, who wouldn't just roll over and cede their patronage. More likely that Skybus will find survival tough and ask to be let in to the AT network, but even that seems less likely than keeping their independence.


What kind of farce is this when a private *bus company* has a stranglehold on transport to a country's major international airport?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 4:43 am

Gasman wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
But it would probably face some sort of legal challenge (on what grounds I've no idea) from Skybus, who wouldn't just roll over and cede their patronage. More likely that Skybus will find survival tough and ask to be let in to the AT network, but even that seems less likely than keeping their independence.


What kind of farce is this when a private *bus company* has a stranglehold on transport to a country's major international airport?

Agree - and it's just as ridiculous as having two major ferry routes like Devonport and Waiheke outside public control.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
dc10s2hnl
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 4:47 am

Gasman wrote:

Although don't forget "government owned" doesn't have to mean "government run". I'd love to see a government owned airline where all profits are reinvested in the airline, and the running of the airline is free of political interference.



...free of political interference AND myopic, short-term shareholder influence? What a dream!
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 5:33 am

Skybus doesn't have a stranglehold on transport to AKL, maybe in the sense of a "non stop/express" type service but AT provide a very competitive 380 Airporter service roughly 20hrs of the day connecting to the rail network with journey times comparable to Skybus if the final destination is the CBD at a lower cost as well. One seat journeys come at a premium, this is not unique to NZ.
 
Some1Somewhere
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 5:38 am

Gasman wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
But it would probably face some sort of legal challenge (on what grounds I've no idea) from Skybus, who wouldn't just roll over and cede their patronage. More likely that Skybus will find survival tough and ask to be let in to the AT network, but even that seems less likely than keeping their independence.


What kind of farce is this when a private *bus company* has a stranglehold on transport to a country's major international airport?

In what way do they have a 'stranglehold'?

AT still runs Route 380 from Papatoetoe to the airport. So CBD to airport needs one transfer at the train station - not that onerous.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 6:24 am

NPL8800 wrote:
Skybus doesn't have a stranglehold on transport to AKL, maybe in the sense of a "non stop/express" type service but AT provide a very competitive 380 Airporter service roughly 20hrs of the day connecting to the rail network with journey times comparable to Skybus if the final destination is the CBD at a lower cost as well. One seat journeys come at a premium, this is not unique to NZ.


Which is great for some parts of Auckland, others not so much e.g Mount Eden to the Airport currently requires 4 connections on buses.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 7:22 am

AT. Is also planning a link from New Lynn to the airport, it's written into their 2018 10-year plan. In 2018 it was proposed that this would start from next year, but given the covid-19 cost overruns and a much lower demand to and from the airport, it would not surprise me if it was delayed a little. The proposal was to start it with 15 min peak frequency and 30 min off-peak. At a guess it will be route 690.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 7:30 am

zkncj wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
Skybus doesn't have a stranglehold on transport to AKL, maybe in the sense of a "non stop/express" type service but AT provide a very competitive 380 Airporter service roughly 20hrs of the day connecting to the rail network with journey times comparable to Skybus if the final destination is the CBD at a lower cost as well. One seat journeys come at a premium, this is not unique to NZ.


Which is great for some parts of Auckland, others not so much e.g Mount Eden to the Airport currently requires 4 connections on buses.


The same logic applies to Skybus, great for the parts of Auckland it serves not so much for the parts it doesn't. At the end of the day, where we choose to live comes with benefits and draw backs. Anyway with the way domestic travel is ramping up and flights increasing every week with loads getting stronger and stronger given the new definition of what "full" is, I imagine Skybus will resume in the near future, albeit not necessarily at the previous high frequency let alone 24/7.
 
Unclekoru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 10:37 pm

zkncj wrote:
Gasman wrote:
There will always be an Air New Zealand. It's as crucial a part of our basic infrastructure as is our roading network, education system and health system. Okay, the airline might not be a cash cow for a while - if ever - but it will always be "there".




Always through this paint job would look good on A320/321, would be well suited to an Government controlled airline.



And NAC did do physical distancing pretty well on there 732s


This is a great photo. I wonder at what point the open hat racks were replaced by the closing overhead bins on the NAC 737 fleet? It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 11:55 pm

Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.

IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.
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Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 12:12 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.

IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.


My first ever flight on any aircraft was in 1973 WLG-AKL on one when I was six. I vividly recall our family of five occupied one entire row.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 1:26 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.

IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.


Does anyone know what the motivation was behind such an luxury configuration?

Was it simply NAC, didn’t think they could fill 112 seats on an 732? Or things were just way more nicer back then?

Did they use to operate the 90 seaters, with just two cabin crew back then? Or was that predating they rules of 1-50z
 
Unclekoru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 4:00 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.

IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.


Yes it was intially a 90 seat configuration, and I believe the final configuraton at NAC was 117. Am I correct in recalling that Air New Zealand operated the 737-200's in a 121 seat configuration up until there reconfiguration in 1987?

zkncj wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.


IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.


Does anyone know what the motivation was behind such an luxury configuration?

Was it simply NAC, didn’t think they could fill 112 seats on an 732? Or things were just way more nicer back then?

Did they use to operate the 90 seaters, with just two cabin crew back then? Or was that predating they rules of 1-50z


There's a great interview with Simon Nixon, who at the time was a business analyst at NAC, in one of the videos produced by Airside TV (IIRC). He discusses the resistance to reconfiguring the 737's with more seats as the airline struggled to deal with growth, they were a quality airline and this wasn't the way to do things. Obviously that resistance was overcome eventually.

I believe that three cabin crew was the standard (and minimum) crew compliment at NAC.
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 9:18 am

Air Chathams resumed scheduled service to Kapiti Coast, Whakatane, and Whanganui today. Good to see them back doing what they do well! Alas some nitwit kicked up a fuss on the flight to Whanganui and got a welcoming committee for his trouble: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12334359

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 11:02 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
Air Chathams resumed scheduled service to Kapiti Coast, Whakatane, and Whanganui today. Good to see them back doing what they do well! Alas some nitwit kicked up a fuss on the flight to Whanganui and got a welcoming committee for his trouble: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12334359

V/F


"Nitwit" is being kind. I'm sure we've all seen several examples of the fringes of human behaviour playing out recently.
 
tom90
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 8:20 pm

Is it correct AirNZ are re-opening their domestic lounges today? Their website says still closed as at 25 March
 
wstakl
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 5:15 am

tom90 wrote:
Is it correct AirNZ are re-opening their domestic lounges today? Their website says still closed as at 25 March


Yep, open today.

NZ has extended it's minimal international schedule until 31AUG

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... -to-august
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 6:45 am

wstakl wrote:
tom90 wrote:
Is it correct AirNZ are re-opening their domestic lounges today? Their website says still closed as at 25 March


Yep, open today.

NZ has extended it's minimal international schedule until 31AUG

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... -to-august


Look forward to getting more credit from NZ then.... It’s becoming an pretty bad deal for everyone that booked the $69 Tasman fares in that sale in early March!

Credits should be valid for either dollar amount or an ticket on the route than you booked.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 7:37 am

The NZ executive team has been streamlined with the following positions to be abolished: Chief Strategy Networks and Alliances, Chief Air Operations and People Safety Officer, Chief Marketing and Customer Officer. A review of middle management will now be undertaken.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 10:17 pm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121625 ... -necessary

30% of staff to go at Air NZ, or about 4000 people. Ouch.
 
bonzolab
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 12:16 am

I'm hoping he's got his numbers confused as this is the first time Foran has said 4000 people. Was always previously 3500.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 1:37 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121625414/air-nz-projects-loss-says-job-cuts-necessary

30% of staff to go at Air NZ, or about 4000 people. Ouch.


This feels wrong. 15, even 20% I could understand. But 30% suggests to me that there is absolute conviction there will not be a recovery in air travel in even the medium term - and I'm just not sure we have that level of certainty. It really concerns me that expertise will be gone for good.

I'm sure they know what they're doing, but yikes.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 5:45 am

The story did have this comment:

the airline is preparing to be 30 per cent smaller than pre-Covid-19 levels in two years’ time.


So a 4000 staff cut might have been on the light side due to the long term recovery of the airline even as far out as 2022!
 
Some1Somewhere
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 6:18 am

Gasman wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Air Chathams resumed scheduled service to Kapiti Coast, Whakatane, and Whanganui today. Good to see them back doing what they do well! Alas some nitwit kicked up a fuss on the flight to Whanganui and got a welcoming committee for his trouble: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12334359

V/F


"Nitwit" is being kind. I'm sure we've all seen several examples of the fringes of human behaviour playing out recently.

Red cap, white text on the front...

No bets on what kind of hat it is.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 10:28 am

Gasman wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121625414/air-nz-projects-loss-says-job-cuts-necessary

30% of staff to go at Air NZ, or about 4000 people. Ouch.


This feels wrong. 15, even 20% I could understand. But 30% suggests to me that there is absolute conviction there will not be a recovery in air travel in even the medium term - and I'm just not sure we have that level of certainty. It really concerns me that expertise will be gone for good.

I'm sure they know what they're doing, but yikes.

It’s a clearing House operation. Cut 4000 then hire half of them back on cheaper contracts and get to pick which ones you want for the most part.
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 12:27 pm

Some1Somewhere wrote:
Gasman wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Air Chathams resumed scheduled service to Kapiti Coast, Whakatane, and Whanganui today. Good to see them back doing what they do well! Alas some nitwit kicked up a fuss on the flight to Whanganui and got a welcoming committee for his trouble: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12334359

V/F


"Nitwit" is being kind. I'm sure we've all seen several examples of the fringes of human behaviour playing out recently.

Red cap, white text on the front...

No bets on what kind of hat it is.

You’d probably be wrong, even if you did want to make hats useful again...

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
GW54
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 6:07 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Gasman wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121625414/air-nz-projects-loss-says-job-cuts-necessary

30% of staff to go at Air NZ, or about 4000 people. Ouch.


This feels wrong. 15, even 20% I could understand. But 30% suggests to me that there is absolute conviction there will not be a recovery in air travel in even the medium term - and I'm just not sure we have that level of certainty. It really concerns me that expertise will be gone for good.

I'm sure they know what they're doing, but yikes.

It’s a clearing House operation. Cut 4000 then hire half of them back on cheaper contracts and get to pick which ones you want for the most part.


Foran was brought in for a reason. Covid has just made it easier for him. I think you are 100% correct. Retrench and then recruit again on new contracts with lessor conditions. As ex Air NZ have seen it happen many times back in the 'old' days.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 6:49 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Gasman wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121625414/air-nz-projects-loss-says-job-cuts-necessary

30% of staff to go at Air NZ, or about 4000 people. Ouch.


This feels wrong. 15, even 20% I could understand. But 30% suggests to me that there is absolute conviction there will not be a recovery in air travel in even the medium term - and I'm just not sure we have that level of certainty. It really concerns me that expertise will be gone for good.

I'm sure they know what they're doing, but yikes.

It’s a clearing House operation. Cut 4000 then hire half of them back on cheaper contracts and get to pick which ones you want for the most part.


They are not hiring any one from the story there is a recruitment freeze for a year. They would not have spent $160 million on redundancies only to rehire straight away. I can see them still with just 8000 staff in 2022 going by their forecast. They still have excess staff in the meantime.it was discussed earlier this month in this thread.
 
Mr AirNZ
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 10:18 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Gasman wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121625414/air-nz-projects-loss-says-job-cuts-necessary

30% of staff to go at Air NZ, or about 4000 people. Ouch.


This feels wrong. 15, even 20% I could understand. But 30% suggests to me that there is absolute conviction there will not be a recovery in air travel in even the medium term - and I'm just not sure we have that level of certainty. It really concerns me that expertise will be gone for good.

I'm sure they know what they're doing, but yikes.

It’s a clearing House operation. Cut 4000 then hire half of them back on cheaper contracts and get to pick which ones you want for the most part.

And yet if we consider Cabin Crew, the majority of the "expensive" ones remain due to the protection clauses they had in their contracts. The one's down the road are mostly the newer hires on the cheaper contracts!
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 10:20 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Gasman wrote:

This feels wrong. 15, even 20% I could understand. But 30% suggests to me that there is absolute conviction there will not be a recovery in air travel in even the medium term - and I'm just not sure we have that level of certainty. It really concerns me that expertise will be gone for good.

I'm sure they know what they're doing, but yikes.

It’s a clearing House operation. Cut 4000 then hire half of them back on cheaper contracts and get to pick which ones you want for the most part.


They are not hiring any one from the story there is a recruitment freeze for a year. They would not have spent $160 million on redundancies only to rehire straight away. I can see them still with just 8000 staff in 2022 going by their forecast. They still have excess staff in the meantime.it was discussed earlier this month in this thread.

That’s the headline. Nothing to stop them changing their mind. Also while paying out redundancy does cost, being able to cut “dead wood” and then hire back the ones you want on lesser conditions down the track is certainly something that will be considered and has been done in the past. It was only last year that NZ struggled to hire people at the operational (rather than Head Office) end of the business and will still planning further growth. Times have changed but I simply don’t accept that there won’t be 50% less international flying (in a years time).
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
Brumans
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 10:26 pm

GW54 is absolutely correct. I was made redundant a number of years ago from NZ due to the necessity to save $NZ500K in my department. I was at the time pushing for process changes that would have added between $2.5m and $NZ8m year on year to the bottom line, (depending on the degree of integration.) Admittedly, expenditure of $NZ750K to $NZ2m one off would have been required. (Peanuts perhaps?)
I was offered my same position back with a new title, the same responsibilities plus extra's, at a salary reduction of 40%, but chose to leave after I set my own exit date a full 11months after I was scheduled to finish. (Another department was reduced by about 50 staff, and then hired 62 to do the same work.) But I guess at the end of the day shareholders are more important to companies these days than a social conscience, even if the Govt is the majority shareholder. Still miss my job though, and the company.

Bru.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 7:10 am

Or let's not forget the number of times NZ has sacked it's Australian based Sales Dept. staff due to "the need to restructure" or "to control distribution costs". IIRC 3 times over 20 years- it was the reason I didn't put my hat in the ring during the last recruitment drive.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 8:52 am

Air New Zealand adds business timed flights to regional schedule

Air New Zealand will operate business-timed flights in and out of a number of its regional destinations from next month after suspending them during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The flights will allow customers in Hamilton, Tauranga, Napier, New Plymouth, Palmerston North, Nelson, Dunedin and Invercargill to undertake a day of business in either Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch, and return home in the evening.
Air NZ's general manager of networks Scott Carr says the timings of the flights mean travellers from Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch will also be able to fly to the majority of these regions and back within a day too.
"Since publishing our domestic schedule for alert level 2, we've seen a good initial response from leisure travellers. As we further build our domestic schedule, we’re looking to cater for resumed business travel which we know helps support economic activity in regional New Zealand," he said.

more:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... ZjAgbE54G4

This is good development, just not see the return of the IVC to AKL 320 service in the list. Also no NPE to CHC flight yet but good to see many familiar routes returning back.

.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 5:23 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Times have changed but I simply don’t accept that there won’t be 50% less international flying (in a years time).


I beg to differ because the market will be a slow long recovery it won't bounce back straight away in a year. Foran was expecting it to take 2 years to get back and recently pointed out the 777-300 fleet along with the 200 fleet will be grounded a year. So just 787s for long haul. LHR and EZE capacity has gone and won't be back. If we look at the US market its been hammered by Covid with 38 million jobs lost and will be years before demand returns. Just before Covid Air NZ had 39 weekly flights to the US. With 15 to LAX ( 7 continued onto LHR), daily to SFO, daily to IAH. 5 pw to ORD and 5 pw to HNL. I am hopeful that in a years time there will be 12 flights to the US. Daily to Lax and 5 weekly to HNL catering for the outbound NZ market mostly. So will be well less than 50% of pre Covid capacity in the market. Demand is going to take a long time to recover and only if the country is safe to visit as that will be a huge factor affecting demand going forward.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 5:27 am

This is good step for to help start off the recovery. Interesting the first flight will be from Canberra to Wellington in July 1:

Australian tourism taskforce says travel to New Zealand 'good to go' from July 1

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... BQrZroBxbQ
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 5:49 am

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121563 ... app-iPhone

Invercargill Airport control tower closure 'kick in guts'

The Airways New Zealand decision to close Invercargill Airport's air traffic control tower is a ''kick in the guts'' when the city is looking to rebuild, the deputy mayor says.

Airways New Zealand this week announced it would close air traffic control towers from regional airports in Invercargill, Hawkes Bay, Gisborne, New Plymouth and Rotorua.

Invercargill deputy mayor Toni Biddle said the announcement was a shock and had come at a time when Invercargill, like many other regions, was trying to rebuild.

She questioned whether Invercargill would keep its jet service from Auckland when the tower closed.



So it is possible that 320s could return to IVC without air traffic control tower available this is good news.
Having a look at the schedules AKL to IVC resumes 5 weekly on 6 July daily except Tue and Sat.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3868
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 7:13 am

NZ516 wrote:
This is good step for to help start off the recovery. Interesting the first flight will be from Canberra to Wellington in July 1:

Australian tourism taskforce says travel to New Zealand 'good to go' from July 1

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... BQrZroBxbQ


Will be interesting to see who gets to operate this one-off flight, maybe it might be two flights NZ oneway and QF the other way both leaving around the same time.

Wondering what NZ will do fleet wise on the Tasman? the A321NEO are fast becoming an domestic staple.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 7:47 am

NZ516 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Times have changed but I simply don’t accept that there won’t be 50% less international flying (in a years time).


I beg to differ because the market will be a slow long recovery it won't bounce back straight away in a year. Foran was expecting it to take 2 years to get back and recently pointed out the 777-300 fleet along with the 200 fleet will be grounded a year. So just 787s for long haul. LHR and EZE capacity has gone and won't be back. If we look at the US market its been hammered by Covid with 38 million jobs lost and will be years before demand returns. Just before Covid Air NZ had 39 weekly flights to the US. With 15 to LAX ( 7 continued onto LHR), daily to SFO, daily to IAH. 5 pw to ORD and 5 pw to HNL. I am hopeful that in a years time there will be 12 flights to the US. Daily to Lax and 5 weekly to HNL catering for the outbound NZ market mostly. So will be well less than 50% of pre Covid capacity in the market. Demand is going to take a long time to recover and only if the country is safe to visit as that will be a huge factor affecting demand going forward.

I agree. I understand that many on this forum are really anxious to see “normal life” resume for air travellers but if you look at the rest of the world, there’s little chance that we’ll be welcoming visitors from anywhere except Australia and possibly the Pacific any time soon. As far as the US is concerned, there’s a huge distance to go before anything approaching normal travel will be possible. And without a vaccine (which is still a long way in the future) most other markets will not open.

NZ has 29 WB aircraft, but it seems only the 14 787s have a future. Right now, the international schedule could be run with just two WBs. To reach 50% in a year’s time all 14 787s would need to be in use. To run 3x weekly to each of the main Asian ports (IMO a realistic but possibly an optimistic target for a year from now) would require three aircraft, HNL, PER and PPT perhaps another two - but there would still be seven 787s waiting for North America to reopen. I’d be astonished if all seven aircraft have work in a year’s time.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 8:11 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
This is good step for to help start off the recovery. Interesting the first flight will be from Canberra to Wellington in July 1:

Australian tourism taskforce says travel to New Zealand 'good to go' from July 1

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2 ... BQrZroBxbQ


Will be interesting to see who gets to operate this one-off flight, maybe it might be two flights NZ oneway and QF the other way both leaving around the same time.

Wondering what NZ will do fleet wise on the Tasman? the A321NEO are fast becoming an domestic staple.


So the Capital Connection will make a come back it seems.
Regarding the A321neos I am sure they will return to the Tasman market and the domestic 320s currently parked up will be brought back in.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 9:05 am

NZ516 wrote:
So the Capital Connection will make a come back it seems.

You may find that its will be an one off - from more of an political stance, than an normal regular service.

NZ516 wrote:
Regarding the A321neos I am sure they will return to the Tasman market and the domestic 320s currently parked up will be brought back in.


Will depend on how long NZ is required to provide social distancing onboard, an A320 fills up too fast when restricted to being sold to 65% of seats.

I suspect that social distancing requirement currently is what is preventing JQ from restarting here, they currently have two a320s sitting in AKL just waiting since March.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:15 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Times have changed but I simply don’t accept that there won’t be 50% less international flying (in a years time).


I beg to differ because the market will be a slow long recovery it won't bounce back straight away in a year. Foran was expecting it to take 2 years to get back and recently pointed out the 777-300 fleet along with the 200 fleet will be grounded a year. So just 787s for long haul. LHR and EZE capacity has gone and won't be back. If we look at the US market its been hammered by Covid with 38 million jobs lost and will be years before demand returns. Just before Covid Air NZ had 39 weekly flights to the US. With 15 to LAX ( 7 continued onto LHR), daily to SFO, daily to IAH. 5 pw to ORD and 5 pw to HNL. I am hopeful that in a years time there will be 12 flights to the US. Daily to Lax and 5 weekly to HNL catering for the outbound NZ market mostly. So will be well less than 50% of pre Covid capacity in the market. Demand is going to take a long time to recover and only if the country is safe to visit as that will be a huge factor affecting demand going forward.

You’re not taking into account the pent up demand for Tasman and PI flights. On top of that there will be extra demand from Australia in particular to travel to the PI and NZL since they can’t go elsewhere (and a bit of money floating around means premium demand = widebody).
There’s also Taiwan which is a likely candidate for expanding bubble - could go daily there.
You still have the LAX and HKG flights (mostly freight), if Japan can get under control then that’s another destination as in YVR. All of that is well over half the widebody fleet (when including increased Tasman flying).
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 8:41 pm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121655 ... of-covid19

Looks like there's a fair chance the B777-200ERs will never carry another passenger.
 
DavidByrne
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Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 9:00 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
You’re not taking into account the pent up demand for Tasman and PI flights. On top of that there will be extra demand from Australia in particular to travel to the PI and NZL since they can’t go elsewhere (and a bit of money floating around means premium demand = widebody).

There’s also Taiwan which is a likely candidate for expanding bubble - could go daily there.
You still have the LAX and HKG flights (mostly freight), if Japan can get under control then that’s another destination as in YVR. All of that is well over half the widebody fleet (when including increased Tasman flying).

I think you’re vastly overestimating the impact of a resumption to Asia on overall fleet utilisation. As I noted above, even with almost complete resumption on Asian routes at reduced frequency (frequencies will be way down for some time to come) there are still only around 7 WBs required, leaving 7 sitting idle. The key to getting back even to 50% of capacity will be the opening up of North America, which (with LHR and EZE which are not resuming) used 14 WBs or thereabouts on its own. Currently there are about 1.5 aircraft out of those 14 on North America and that number won’t grow significantly for the foreseeable future - until there’s a vaccine at least. And even then it will be a long, slow haul back.

I don’t expect Canada to come back that soon either. Although it’s not in the league of the USA, it has around the same number of active cases as Turkey and 50% more than Iran is reporting. Not sure I’d risk a trip to Turkey or Iran right now, and on that basis I’d steer clear of all of the Americas - north and south - for the meantime.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 11:12 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
You’re not taking into account the pent up demand for Tasman and PI flights. On top of that there will be extra demand from Australia in particular to travel to the PI and NZL since they can’t go elsewhere (and a bit of money floating around means premium demand = widebody).

There’s also Taiwan which is a likely candidate for expanding bubble - could go daily there.
You still have the LAX and HKG flights (mostly freight), if Japan can get under control then that’s another destination as in YVR. All of that is well over half the widebody fleet (when including increased Tasman flying).

I think you’re vastly overestimating the impact of a resumption to Asia on overall fleet utilisation. As I noted above, even with almost complete resumption on Asian routes at reduced frequency (frequencies will be way down for some time to come) there are still only around 7 WBs required, leaving 7 sitting idle. The key to getting back even to 50% of capacity will be the opening up of North America, which (with LHR and EZE which are not resuming) used 14 WBs or thereabouts on its own. Currently there are about 1.5 aircraft out of those 14 on North America and that number won’t grow significantly for the foreseeable future - until there’s a vaccine at least. And even then it will be a long, slow haul back.

I don’t expect Canada to come back that soon either. Although it’s not in the league of the USA, it has around the same number of active cases as Turkey and 50% more than Iran is reporting. Not sure I’d risk a trip to Turkey or Iran right now, and on that basis I’d steer clear of all of the Americas - north and south - for the meantime.


That is correct regarding Asia a very slow recovery in demand. Air NZ were to resume Shanghai flights 3 weekly but in the new update it is not listed only 2 weekly to HKG and 5 weekly to LAX to Aug 31 and that is it!. With all the international flying scheduled it can be operated with just two 787s amazing! No wonder why the airline is hurting so bad. Some people don't understand the scale of the situation.

Air New Zealand July/August 2020 International operations as of 28MAY20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... e-20200528

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