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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 21, 2020 1:36 pm

eta unknown wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Air New Zealand announces 3500 job losses due to Covid-19 pandemic
This was a bleak statement.:
They are trying their very best to keep the last remaining 9000 jobs from going. Fingers crossed they will be successful!!!

I'm sure someone here can put a positive spin on the above- unicorns and all. Then again, the Shanghai crew base closure wasn't deemed important...

Nothing positive to say about the numbers. It's a bloodbath and probably the first of several rounds. I hope it was all completely necessary. Let's see over time whether the right decisions have been made.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Thu May 21, 2020 6:09 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
Nothing positive to say about the numbers. It's a bloodbath and probably the first of several rounds. I hope it was all completely necessary. Let's see over time whether the right decisions have been made.


It seems on surface that the proclamations of the doomsayers have been accepted at face value. It's not impossible, for example, for Covid-19 to be a distant memory in six months.

But while NZ loves to portray itself as some sort of family business, the reality is it's answerable to the shareholders, and no one else. Taking a risk on a big picture long view is simply not permitted. If you're hemorrhaging money with an uncertain medium term future, you shut it down.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 8:42 pm

Gasman wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
Nothing positive to say about the numbers. It's a bloodbath and probably the first of several rounds. I hope it was all completely necessary. Let's see over time whether the right decisions have been made.


It seems on surface that the proclamations of the doomsayers have been accepted at face value. It's not impossible, for example, for Covid-19 to be a distant memory in six months.

But while NZ loves to portray itself as some sort of family business, the reality is it's answerable to the shareholders, and no one else. Taking a risk on a big picture long view is simply not permitted. If you're hemorrhaging money with an uncertain medium term future, you shut it down.


Certainly hemorrhaging money now with the social distance requirements but I would not agree with the shut it down statement. More like a downsizing to meet up with the new demand curve.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 9:12 pm

Gasman wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
Nothing positive to say about the numbers. It's a bloodbath and probably the first of several rounds. I hope it was all completely necessary. Let's see over time whether the right decisions have been made.


It seems on surface that the proclamations of the doomsayers have been accepted at face value. It's not impossible, for example, for Covid-19 to be a distant memory in six months.

But while NZ loves to portray itself as some sort of family business, the reality is it's answerable to the shareholders, and no one else. Taking a risk on a big picture long view is simply not permitted. If you're hemorrhaging money with an uncertain medium term future, you shut it down.


It could be an distance memory in 6 months, the biggest risk will be governments that hold onto restrictions far longer than needed eg New Zealand.... there is only so long that NZ can go on operating with 65% capacity on there A320/321s.

The economy is needing people to travel domesticity, but the social distancing is pushing the costs up prevent people to travel. An weekend in welling for an family of four from Auckland can set you back $1500-2000 in fares at the moment. Where pre-covid you could do this for $500 at an months notice.

Then they aren’t making it simple to get to the airport, SkyBus still isn’t operating (hopefully an reason for them to have there contract axed). AKL isn’t doing any parking deals, Park and Ride is closed.

The faster than New Zealand moves to Level 1 one, the better than chance of us still having an travel industry in 6months time.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 9:37 pm

zkncj wrote:
Then they aren’t making it simple to get to the airport, SkyBus still isn’t operating (hopefully an reason for them to have there contract axed). AKL isn’t doing any parking deals, Park and Ride is closed.

The faster than New Zealand moves to Level 1 one, the better than chance of us still having an travel industry in 6months time.

Skybus doesn't have a contract. It operates as it pleases "in association with AT", but it's a very loose association that gives pretty much zero public control over one of the key public transport routes. Blame the National party, who exempted Skybus and the Devonport and Waiheke ferries from the legislative requirements that all other PT had to adhere to because they were lobbied by their business mates. With a bit of luck they'll voluntarily go cap in hand to AT and ask for the public subsidy and give up their control in exchange. As happened with Fullers and the Stanley Bay ferry a few years ago. Then we might get comparable fares to the airport that people going to other destinations get.

I agree that the faster we get to Level 1, the better the chance of having an airline industry in the future. But let's not put the future of the airline industry (or any industry) ahead of public health. That's the kind of Trumpian response to the virus that has led to the USA becoming the world champion of coronavirus. And we have to remember that a second wave would arguably do even more damage to the industry should that occur. Caution and slow deliberate steps are the best way forward both for the airline industry and public health.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 11:28 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Skybus doesn't have a contract. It operates as it pleases "in association with AT", but it's a very loose association that gives pretty much zero public control over one of the key public transport routes. Blame the National party, who exempted Skybus and the Devonport and Waiheke ferries from the legislative requirements that all other PT had to adhere to because they were lobbied by their business mates. With a bit of luck they'll voluntarily go cap in hand to AT and ask for the public subsidy and give up their control in exchange. As happened with Fullers and the Stanley Bay ferry a few years ago. Then we might get comparable fares to the airport that people going to other destinations get.


Is there anything that would prevent AT from operating there own service to AKL? Or would that be in breach of some hand shake agreements ?

Surely AT could extend 2 per hour of its Mount Eden Services onto the Domestic terminal, and probably get good loads.
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 11:29 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
I agree that the faster we get to Level 1, the better the chance of having an airline industry in the future. But let's not put the future of the airline industry (or any industry) ahead of public health. That's the kind of Trumpian response to the virus that has led to the USA becoming the world champion of coronavirus. And we have to remember that a second wave would arguably do even more damage to the industry should that occur. Caution and slow deliberate steps are the best way forward both for the airline industry and public health.


There will always be an Air New Zealand. It's as crucial a part of our basic infrastructure as is our roading network, education system and health system. Okay, the airline might not be a cash cow for a while - if ever - but it will always be "there".

There was a lot of understandable panic, and a small amount of irrational behaviour surrounding this virus. Human nature is similarly going to tend towards being over cautious when it comes time to switch the restrictions off. That tendency is going to take real strength from our leaders to overcome; but I sincerely hope that strength is there. Otherwise recovery from Covid-19 will be a lot harder and slower than it needs to be.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 11:37 pm

Gasman wrote:
There will always be an Air New Zealand. It's as crucial a part of our basic infrastructure as is our roading network, education system and health system. Okay, the airline might not be a cash cow for a while - if ever - but it will always be "there".




Always through this paint job would look good on A320/321, would be well suited to an Government controlled airline.



And NAC did do physical distancing pretty well on there 732s
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 11:44 pm

Ha!

Although don't forget "government owned" doesn't have to mean "government run". I'd love to see a government owned airline where all profits are reinvested in the airline, and the running of the airline is free of political interference.

Dreams are free.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 1:50 am

zkncj wrote:
Is there anything that would prevent AT from operating there own service to AKL? Or would that be in breach of some hand shake agreements ?

Surely AT could extend 2 per hour of its Mount Eden Services onto the Domestic terminal, and probably get good loads.

Not sure about the obstacles where you may have a public transport enterprise moving in on a private transport company's sole route and undercutting them. But that is in effect what AT proposes with light rail duplicating Skybus' route (sort of) in future. Given LR appears to be on the back burner in the post-covid world, a publicly-run bus alternative could be an interim step. But it would probably face some sort of legal challenge (on what grounds I've no idea) from Skybus, who wouldn't just roll over and cede their patronage. More likely that Skybus will find survival tough and ask to be let in to the AT network, but even that seems less likely than keeping their independence.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 2:00 am

DavidByrne wrote:
But it would probably face some sort of legal challenge (on what grounds I've no idea) from Skybus, who wouldn't just roll over and cede their patronage. More likely that Skybus will find survival tough and ask to be let in to the AT network, but even that seems less likely than keeping their independence.


What kind of farce is this when a private *bus company* has a stranglehold on transport to a country's major international airport?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 4:43 am

Gasman wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
But it would probably face some sort of legal challenge (on what grounds I've no idea) from Skybus, who wouldn't just roll over and cede their patronage. More likely that Skybus will find survival tough and ask to be let in to the AT network, but even that seems less likely than keeping their independence.


What kind of farce is this when a private *bus company* has a stranglehold on transport to a country's major international airport?

Agree - and it's just as ridiculous as having two major ferry routes like Devonport and Waiheke outside public control.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
dc10s2hnl
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 4:47 am

Gasman wrote:

Although don't forget "government owned" doesn't have to mean "government run". I'd love to see a government owned airline where all profits are reinvested in the airline, and the running of the airline is free of political interference.



...free of political interference AND myopic, short-term shareholder influence? What a dream!
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 5:33 am

Skybus doesn't have a stranglehold on transport to AKL, maybe in the sense of a "non stop/express" type service but AT provide a very competitive 380 Airporter service roughly 20hrs of the day connecting to the rail network with journey times comparable to Skybus if the final destination is the CBD at a lower cost as well. One seat journeys come at a premium, this is not unique to NZ.
 
Some1Somewhere
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 5:38 am

Gasman wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
But it would probably face some sort of legal challenge (on what grounds I've no idea) from Skybus, who wouldn't just roll over and cede their patronage. More likely that Skybus will find survival tough and ask to be let in to the AT network, but even that seems less likely than keeping their independence.


What kind of farce is this when a private *bus company* has a stranglehold on transport to a country's major international airport?

In what way do they have a 'stranglehold'?

AT still runs Route 380 from Papatoetoe to the airport. So CBD to airport needs one transfer at the train station - not that onerous.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 6:24 am

NPL8800 wrote:
Skybus doesn't have a stranglehold on transport to AKL, maybe in the sense of a "non stop/express" type service but AT provide a very competitive 380 Airporter service roughly 20hrs of the day connecting to the rail network with journey times comparable to Skybus if the final destination is the CBD at a lower cost as well. One seat journeys come at a premium, this is not unique to NZ.


Which is great for some parts of Auckland, others not so much e.g Mount Eden to the Airport currently requires 4 connections on buses.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 7:22 am

AT. Is also planning a link from New Lynn to the airport, it's written into their 2018 10-year plan. In 2018 it was proposed that this would start from next year, but given the covid-19 cost overruns and a much lower demand to and from the airport, it would not surprise me if it was delayed a little. The proposal was to start it with 15 min peak frequency and 30 min off-peak. At a guess it will be route 690.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 7:30 am

zkncj wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
Skybus doesn't have a stranglehold on transport to AKL, maybe in the sense of a "non stop/express" type service but AT provide a very competitive 380 Airporter service roughly 20hrs of the day connecting to the rail network with journey times comparable to Skybus if the final destination is the CBD at a lower cost as well. One seat journeys come at a premium, this is not unique to NZ.


Which is great for some parts of Auckland, others not so much e.g Mount Eden to the Airport currently requires 4 connections on buses.


The same logic applies to Skybus, great for the parts of Auckland it serves not so much for the parts it doesn't. At the end of the day, where we choose to live comes with benefits and draw backs. Anyway with the way domestic travel is ramping up and flights increasing every week with loads getting stronger and stronger given the new definition of what "full" is, I imagine Skybus will resume in the near future, albeit not necessarily at the previous high frequency let alone 24/7.
 
Unclekoru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 10:37 pm

zkncj wrote:
Gasman wrote:
There will always be an Air New Zealand. It's as crucial a part of our basic infrastructure as is our roading network, education system and health system. Okay, the airline might not be a cash cow for a while - if ever - but it will always be "there".




Always through this paint job would look good on A320/321, would be well suited to an Government controlled airline.



And NAC did do physical distancing pretty well on there 732s


This is a great photo. I wonder at what point the open hat racks were replaced by the closing overhead bins on the NAC 737 fleet? It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sat May 23, 2020 11:55 pm

Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.

IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 12:12 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.

IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.


My first ever flight on any aircraft was in 1973 WLG-AKL on one when I was six. I vividly recall our family of five occupied one entire row.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 1:26 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.

IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.


Does anyone know what the motivation was behind such an luxury configuration?

Was it simply NAC, didn’t think they could fill 112 seats on an 732? Or things were just way more nicer back then?

Did they use to operate the 90 seaters, with just two cabin crew back then? Or was that predating they rules of 1-50z
 
Unclekoru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 4:00 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.

IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.


Yes it was intially a 90 seat configuration, and I believe the final configuraton at NAC was 117. Am I correct in recalling that Air New Zealand operated the 737-200's in a 121 seat configuration up until there reconfiguration in 1987?

zkncj wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
It looks like the cabin was reconfigured on a number of occasions (1969 and 1975 plus one other time that I have been unable to locate). I don't believe that the 5 abreast seating lasted too long.


IIRC the NAC 737-200 originally had a seating capacity of just 90 in 5-abreast configuration.


Does anyone know what the motivation was behind such an luxury configuration?

Was it simply NAC, didn’t think they could fill 112 seats on an 732? Or things were just way more nicer back then?

Did they use to operate the 90 seaters, with just two cabin crew back then? Or was that predating they rules of 1-50z


There's a great interview with Simon Nixon, who at the time was a business analyst at NAC, in one of the videos produced by Airside TV (IIRC). He discusses the resistance to reconfiguring the 737's with more seats as the airline struggled to deal with growth, they were a quality airline and this wasn't the way to do things. Obviously that resistance was overcome eventually.

I believe that three cabin crew was the standard (and minimum) crew compliment at NAC.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 9:18 am

Air Chathams resumed scheduled service to Kapiti Coast, Whakatane, and Whanganui today. Good to see them back doing what they do well! Alas some nitwit kicked up a fuss on the flight to Whanganui and got a welcoming committee for his trouble: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12334359

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
Gasman
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 11:02 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
Air Chathams resumed scheduled service to Kapiti Coast, Whakatane, and Whanganui today. Good to see them back doing what they do well! Alas some nitwit kicked up a fuss on the flight to Whanganui and got a welcoming committee for his trouble: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12334359

V/F


"Nitwit" is being kind. I'm sure we've all seen several examples of the fringes of human behaviour playing out recently.
 
tom90
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 8:20 pm

Is it correct AirNZ are re-opening their domestic lounges today? Their website says still closed as at 25 March
 
wstakl
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 5:15 am

tom90 wrote:
Is it correct AirNZ are re-opening their domestic lounges today? Their website says still closed as at 25 March


Yep, open today.

NZ has extended it's minimal international schedule until 31AUG

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... -to-august
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 6:45 am

wstakl wrote:
tom90 wrote:
Is it correct AirNZ are re-opening their domestic lounges today? Their website says still closed as at 25 March


Yep, open today.

NZ has extended it's minimal international schedule until 31AUG

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300 ... -to-august


Look forward to getting more credit from NZ then.... It’s becoming an pretty bad deal for everyone that booked the $69 Tasman fares in that sale in early March!

Credits should be valid for either dollar amount or an ticket on the route than you booked.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 7:37 am

The NZ executive team has been streamlined with the following positions to be abolished: Chief Strategy Networks and Alliances, Chief Air Operations and People Safety Officer, Chief Marketing and Customer Officer. A review of middle management will now be undertaken.

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