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COVID-19 Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 1:51 pm

Welcome to Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020. Please continue to add your comments below

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Last edited by SQ22 on Sun May 10, 2020 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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smartplane
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 11:20 pm

Every dollar spent today hanging onto the past, is a dollar less to spend on the rebuild. Go hard and go early. Stop waiting for someone else to make the first Chapter 11 or similar move.

Major financial impact on strategic alliances and IATA, who rely on clipping high volume cents to fund operating costs. Export Import banks around the World are going to need financial assistance.

Two types of airports in the future? Domestic with lower levels of health checks / separation, and international with much higher levels (and higher costs for airlines and passengers). Physical separation of international and domestic terminals? Cost of airports approved for international flights will result in fewer airports globally handling international passengers, so reversal of P2P trend.
 
midway7
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Re: COVID-19 News and Reference Thread

Sun May 03, 2020 1:18 pm

I am not versed in the laws, but any chance Buffet is doing this so he is in a full unobstructed position to purchase an airline when the chance is right. Having a 10% interest in the largest airlines in the US could present a conflict of interest if he plans to purchase one in the future?
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: COVID-19 News and Reference Thread

Sun May 03, 2020 1:30 pm

Or my long time hope (post 787, 748, MAX, ethics lapses), Berkshire finds a management team and buys Boeing Commercial.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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Antaras
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 2:22 pm

Seems like VN has to delayed its two reppatriation flight IAD-ANC-HAN and SFO-HAN as it could not get enough licenses from US authorities.
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Aither
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 3:32 pm

smartplane wrote:
Two types of airports in the future? Domestic with lower levels of health checks / separation, and international with much higher levels (and higher costs for airlines and passengers). Physical separation of international and domestic terminals? Cost of airports approved for international flights will result in fewer airports globally handling international passengers, so reversal of P2P trend.


Preparing for the worst is not a useful scenario, because there will be nothing to be prepared for.
I however agree that there will be much less point to point on transcon even if in the short term passengers could prefer to avoid to connect. During times of crisis airlines retreat to their fortress hubs. That's not good for the 787 which has been advertised as the point to point aircraft. That's not saying the A380 will be back.
Never trust the obvious
 
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Re: COVID-19 News and Reference Thread

Sun May 03, 2020 7:07 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Or my long time hope (post 787, 748, MAX, ethics lapses), Berkshire finds a management team and buys Boeing Commercial.

Actually, you can already split out GoodCo and BadCo out of Boeing. Ch.11 is one option for this. Maybe there are other ways. Moneyed investor buys GoodCo, steers clear of BadCo.

GoodCo would own South Carolina 787 plant, 787 IP, and rights to lease Washington State 787 plant. Plus it could own legacy TC's and support network. Whatever accumulated losses from previous debacles (KC-46, MAX, whatever) need to stay on its balance sheet, to minimize future tax liabilities. And, of course, remaining brains in design and engineering, that remain after disciples of "Neutron Jack" have done their damage.
Brains would be immediately put, in overdrive mode, into designing a new decent narrowbody.

BadCo would own 737MAX program, 777 program, 748 program, and other Washington State assets, plus other "plum assets", like deferred production costs from previous programs (it's billions of dollars, isn't it?). Its priorities would include stabilizing the MAX program (difficult) and pushing sales of 777X (not easy). It would probably start to crumble fairly quickly, and apparently would end up, being bought piecemeal, by GoodCo: 777 program, after a large-ish write-off; then narrowbody assembly lines (maybe not all at once, but piecemeal again).
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 8:03 pm

The MAX, mended, will continue to be the money maker.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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calstanford
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Re: COVID-19 News and Reference Thread

Sun May 03, 2020 8:13 pm

GoodCo would own South Carolina 787 plant, 787 IP, and rights to lease Washington State 787 plant.


Hahaha. Putting South Carolina 787 into Good Co made me realise you meant this sarcastically.
Well done ;)
 
dcajet
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Sun May 03, 2020 10:47 pm

Interesting repatriation flight for 22 French retirees that were at El Calafate, Argentina. ASL Airlines 73G F-GZTD operated the 17+hr flight from FTE to CDG with technical stops at IGR and SID.

https://twitter.com/SpottersArg/status/ ... 1049509888

Image
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 3:07 am

I see a Latam 77W airborne departed from GRU.
No destination shown, probably AMS considering current position.

JJ9516 from Sao Paulo https://fr24.com/TAM9516/2471155f

Any thoughts?
 
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Antaras
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 3:49 am

Antaras wrote:
Seems like VN has to delayed its two reppatriation flight IAD-ANC-HAN and SFO-HAN as it could not get enough licenses from US authorities.

Update: US asked Vietnamese gov' to pay for the flight, not the passengers.

To be more specific, as VN operates those flights under "repatriation flight" tag, means that the government has to pay for all the fees and costs of the flights. However, VN sold tickets on those "repatriation flights" for $2000, so VN can't get the license from the US (?)
Things are getting weird.
Image
US authorities assumed those flights are commercial flights, not repatriation flights. And base on the rule, no license for commercial flights.


VN has operated lots of "repatriation flights", including VN8 (YVZ-YVR-HAN) and VN88 (DXB-HAN). Those mentioned two US "repatriation flights" are both registered VN1, "first priority" :D
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mercure1
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 4:32 am

Paris Orly may remain closed until the “autumn”.
For now flights consolidated at CDG but obviously will impact French domestic and overseas territories which are centered at ORY and the airlines based at ORY.

https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-servi ... ne-1199988
mercure f-wtcc
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Mon May 04, 2020 7:09 am

ojjunior wrote:
I see a Latam 77W airborne departed from GRU.
No destination shown, probably AMS considering current position.

JJ9516 from Sao Paulo https://fr24.com/TAM9516/2471155f

Any thoughts?


Over in the COVID-19 Cargo Discussion thread, post #329 (by factsonly) says that LATAM are starting cargo only ops with their 777-300ERs.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell BA/KL 744s
 
aireuropef100
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Re: COVID-19 News and Reference Thread

Tue May 05, 2020 1:53 pm

gunnerman wrote:
VS to close its LGW operation, make 3,150 of its 10,000 employees redundant and reduce its fleet to 36 twin-jets by immediately retiring its seven 744s and four 332s in early 2022.
https://corporate.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/media/press-releases/Our-post-Covid19-future.html



Read it carefully - they are retaining LGW slots as when things bounce back I doubt they will want hundreds of Mickey-Mouse fans clogging up LHR slots.
 
ProfH
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BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 5:52 am

It looks like BA, LH and KLM are still maintaining some service, even if bare-bones, in this crazy situation. KLM just started serving secondary cities like PRG and BUD, giving me hope that at least some travel is coming back, even if just for emergency and essential travel (I cannot imagine how many people are still in need of a flight home).

Are these three airlines going to be the lead survivors of the crisis in Europe? Are governments doing enough to keep them in business?
 
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seahawk
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 6:03 am

Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.
 
Blerg
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 6:05 am

What planes are they using to BUD and PRG? I suppose Wizz Air resumed BUD-EIN so that could be one reason why KLM resume BUD.

Are there any quarantine restrictions in Hungary and the Netherlands? I know they have them in The Czech Republic.
 
ProfH
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 6:40 am

Blerg wrote:
What planes are they using to BUD and PRG? I suppose Wizz Air resumed BUD-EIN so that could be one reason why KLM resume BUD.

Are there any quarantine restrictions in Hungary and the Netherlands? I know they have them in The Czech Republic.


Per airport (https://www.schiphol.nl/):
KL 1973 AMS-BUD Embraer 190 PH-EZY
KL 1351 AMS-PRG Embraer 175 PH-EXS

The Czech Republic allows nationals, permanent residents and EU students/work travelers and a few other categories (incl. emergency situations). Travelers are asked to show a negative PCR test to avoid a 14- day quarantine. More here: https://www.prg.aero/en

I am hopeful that more and more countries will start applying smart, targeted policies over general bans.

seahawk wrote:
Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.

Agreed it's a subjective call. My personal impression is that legacies are a vital part of the economy, and preserving key airlines (on an EU level, not within each country) will help in the economic recovery, even if that skews the competitive forces in the shorter-term.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 6:57 am

seahawk wrote:
Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.



But if they wouldn't do it, it would be political suicide. Airlines (especially the legacies) are such a part of the countries identity.

For many Dutch people, KLM feels like 'coming home' when they board the plane. I can only imagine this being the same for Germans or Brits when boarding a LH/BA flight.

I remember this articleabout the demise of Swissair in 2001, how that affected a whole country and the images its citizens had about themselves.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
Blerg
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 7:00 am

ProfH wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What planes are they using to BUD and PRG? I suppose Wizz Air resumed BUD-EIN so that could be one reason why KLM resume BUD.

Are there any quarantine restrictions in Hungary and the Netherlands? I know they have them in The Czech Republic.


Per airport (https://www.schiphol.nl/):
KL 1973 AMS-BUD Embraer 190 PH-EZY
KL 1351 AMS-PRG Embraer 175 PH-EXS

The Czech Republic allows nationals, permanent residents and EU students/work travelers and a few other categories (incl. emergency situations). Travelers are asked to show a negative PCR test to avoid a 14- day quarantine. More here: https://www.prg.aero/en

I am hopeful that more and more countries will start applying smart, targeted policies over general bans.

seahawk wrote:
Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.

Agreed it's a subjective call. My personal impression is that legacies are a vital part of the economy, and preserving key airlines (on an EU level, not within each country) will help in the economic recovery, even if that skews the competitive forces in the shorter-term.


With The Czech Republic requesting a negative test then travel should slowly start to return to normal, no wonder KL resumed PRG flights. Having Embraer in their fleet also helps.

What about The Netherlands, are there any quarantine requirements there?
 
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seahawk
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 7:46 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.



But if they wouldn't do it, it would be political suicide. Airlines (especially the legacies) are such a part of the countries identity.

For many Dutch people, KLM feels like 'coming home' when they board the plane. I can only imagine this being the same for Germans or Brits when boarding a LH/BA flight.

I remember this articleabout the demise of Swissair in 2001, how that affected a whole country and the images its citizens had about themselves.


That is no argument imho, the only valid argument is imho that a national airline is a strategic asset in a crisis. When you look at the repatriation flights or now flying in supplies, there is case to be made for that.
 
factsonly
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 7:48 am

Current operations by the three airlines:

BA - May 6, 2020 - in air at the time, so more scheduled:

BA 18 - Seoul/Incheon
BA 55 - Johannesburg
BA 87 - Beijing
BA 97 - Toronto
BA 159 - Shanghai
BA 167 - Shanghai
BA 191 - Dallas
BA 207 - Miami
BA 225 - Atlanta
BA 281 - Los Angeles
BA 283 - San Francisco
BA 293 - Chicago
BA 3587 - Edmonton
BA 430 - Amsterdam
BA 478 - Barcelona
BA - Aberdeen
BA - Manchester
BA - Paris
BA - Edinburgh
BA - Washington
BA - Gibraltar
BA - Boston
BA - New York
BA - Isle of Man
BA - Dhaka




KLM - May 6, 2020 - scheduled:

KL 862 Tokyo/Narita
KL 868 Osaka
KL 896 Shanghai Pudong
KL 897 Beijing Capital
KL 855 Seoul/Incheon
KL 611 Chicago O'Hare
KL 885 Bangkok/Suvarnabhumi
KL 887 Hong Kong/Chek Lap Kok
KL 836 Singapore Changi
KL 791 São Paulo
KL 743 Bogota
KL 758 Tocumen
KL 428 Dubai
KL 692 Toronto/Lester B. Pearson
KL 646 New York/John F Kennedy
KL 1724 Brussels
KL 1230 Paris/Charles de Gaulle
KL 1352 Prague/Ruzyně
KL 1008 London Heathrow
KL 1344 Billund
KL 1444 Aberdeen Dyce
KL 1766 Frankfurt-am-Main/Frankfurt am Main
KL 1128 Copenhagen Kastrup
KL 1794 Munich
KL 1870 Stuttgart
KL 1780 Hamburg
KL 1856 Düsseldorf
KL 1074 Manchester
KL 1156 Gothenburg-Landvetter
KL 1824 Berlin-Tegel
KL 1958 Zurich/Zürich
KL 1144 Oslo Gardermoen
KL 1846 Vienna
KL 1928 Geneva Cointrin
KL 946 Dublin
KL 1426 Birmingham
KL 1636 Milan/Malpensa
KL 1110 Stockholm-Arlanda
KL 1278 Edinburgh
KL 1974 Budapest Ferenc Liszt
KL 1630 Milan/Malpensa
KL 1670 Barcelona
KL 1168 Helsinki Vantaa
KL 1694 Lisbon Portela
KL 1602 Rome/Leonardo da Vinci–Fiumicino
KL 1702 Adolfo Suárez Madrid–Barajas
KL 686 Mexico City/Licenciado Benito Juarez
KL 808 Taipei/Taiwan Taoyuan

Lufthansa - Frankfurt May 6, 2020 in the air - so more scheduled:

LH - Amsterdam
LH - Berlin
LH - Brussels
LH - Copenhagen
LH - Hamburg
LH - Stockholm
LH - Lisbon
LH - London
LH - Helsinki
LH - Barcelona
LH - Madrid
LH - Geneva
LH - Milan
LH - Rome
LH - Paris
LH - Zurich
LH - Vienna
LH - Shanghai
LH - Beijing
LH - Bangkok
LH - Tokyo
LH - Chicago
LH - Nanjing
LH - Seoul/Incheon
LH - MUC - Shanghai
LH - MUC - Seoul/Incheon
LH - plus 1x A380 and 1x A346 heading towards Teruel ?
 
george77300
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 7:55 am

factsonly wrote:
Current operations by the three airlines:

BA - May 6, 2020 - in air at the time, so more scheduled:

BA 18 - Seoul/Incheon
BA 55 - Johannesburg
BA 87 - Beijing
BA 97 - Toronto
BA 159 - Shanghai
BA 167 - Shanghai
BA 191 - Dallas
BA 207 - Miami
BA 225 - Atlanta
BA 281 - Los Angeles
BA 283 - San Francisco
BA 293 - Chicago
BA 3587 - Edmonton
BA 430 - Amsterdam
BA 478 - Barcelona
BA - Aberdeen
BA - Manchester
BA - Paris
BA - Edinburgh
BA - Washington
BA - Gibraltar
BA - Boston
BA - New York
BA - Isle of Man
BA - Dhaka


I can’t comment on LH/KL as I don’t know, but a large portion of those BA Flights are cargo only. Seoul, Johannesburg, Beijing, both Shanghai, Edmonton and some of the US flights are cargo only.

Dhaka was a repatriation flight for British citizens. A few of the US flights have pax on. The rest of those mentioned are passenger flights. Albeit except Paris and Barcelona, are just domestic.
 
petertenthije
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 8:14 am

Blerg wrote:
What about The Netherlands, are there any quarantine requirements there?

All large events have been banned (sports, concerts, festivals etc)
Minimum distance of 1,5m
Businesses that require physical contact are closed, except of course medical (barbers, massage, dance schools...)
Schools are closed, but will reopen soon
No visitors allowed in nursing homes
No groups over 30, including weddings, funerals, religious
All places for social gatherings are closed (cafes, cinemas, museums, libraries)
Strong advice to work from home unless there is no alternative

So the quarantaine requirements are pretty tame compared to say Italy or Spain.
Attamottamotta!
 
lhrnue
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 8:37 am

Surprised by the number of KLM flights. Are they allowing PAX transferring through AMS? Or are they running Cargo transfer flights?
 
Eikie
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 8:44 am

lhrnue wrote:
Surprised by the number of KLM flights. Are they allowing PAX transferring through AMS? Or are they running Cargo transfer flights?

Both. Some are cargo to and pax from a destination, some are cargo or pax only.
A few, but it is decreasing, are flights to being back Dutch citizens stuck abroad.

seahawk wrote:
Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.

Can't speak for other airlines, but KLM does not get a subsidy, it will be loans from banks for which the government is collateral.

While a big help, it is not free money.
 
miegapele
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 8:53 am

Lufthansa has scheule posted online https://www.lufthansa.com/content/dam/l ... -08May.pdf
82 Flights today. Given that last year they had 1600 daily flights, just over 5% of regular schedule is flown.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 11:20 am

seahawk wrote:
Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.


I'm generally a free-markets guy by education but I have to ask: What do you think would happen in the absence of government support (including layoff wage subsidies)?
 
330lover
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 12:42 pm

Blerg wrote:
What planes are they using to BUD and PRG? I suppose Wizz Air resumed BUD-EIN so that could be one reason why KLM resume BUD.

Are there any quarantine restrictions in Hungary and the Netherlands? I know they have them in The Czech Republic.



Here in Hungary the rule is that people can enter the country if:
you are a Hungarian national or
you are a foreigner owning a house in Hungary AND have your permanent address here (lakcim kártya = address card)

But still, after entry, you have to remain in quarantine for 2 weeks after entry.
Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
 
Nickd92
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 1:16 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.


I'm generally a free-markets guy by education but I have to ask: What do you think would happen in the absence of government support (including layoff wage subsidies)?


A high unemployment bill and a very big drop in income to the government through not only tax collection of employees, but supply lies and tax of aviation. Oh and corporate tax. Some though would like a failure of airlines without seeng the much bigger and wider picture.
 
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enilria
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F9 to Charge $39-89 for Empty Seat Next to You

Wed May 06, 2020 2:06 pm

While I understand their desire to improve revenue, this is going to generate pretty bad media coverage.

“While we believe the best measure to keep everyone healthy is to require face coverings, for those who want an empty seat next to them for extra peace of mind or simply additional comfort, we are now offering ‘More Room,’” said Frontier CEO Barry Biffle.

Flights departing May 8 through August 31, 2020 will have 18 More Room seats available for passengers to select, including Stretch seats in the first three rows of the aircraft, which also provide extra legroom and recline as compared to standard seats. Frontier will announce at a later date whether the More Room program will be extended beyond August 31.


https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... ddle-seat/
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... n-flights/
 
chonetsao
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Re: F9 to Charge $39-89 for Empty Seat Next to You

Wed May 06, 2020 2:10 pm

well, IATA already said they support face mask but against middle seat free policy.

I agree media may not take it well, but somehow I can see passengers go for it.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 2:11 pm

Vietnam lifted the Social Distancing limit on aircraft: https://zingnews.vn/bo-quy-dinh-gian-cach-tren-xe-khach-may-bay-tu-ngay-mai-post1081687.html
In other words, Vietnamese carriers are now allowed to operate aircraft with full capacity.

Besides that, Vietnam Airlines Group (Vietnam Airlines + Jetstar Pacific VN + VASCO) plans to fully recover its domestic network from June: http://spirit.vietnamairlines.com/vi/tintuc/tin-tct-105/vietnam-airlines-group-tien-toi-phuc-hoi-toan-bo-mang-bay-noi-dia-7337.html
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eta unknown
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Re: F9 to Charge $39-89 for Empty Seat Next to You

Wed May 06, 2020 2:14 pm

With so few pax flying I'd take a chance the seat would be vacant anyway.
 
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seahawk
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Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 2:34 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.


I'm generally a free-markets guy by education but I have to ask: What do you think would happen in the absence of government support (including layoff wage subsidies)?


Oher players would take their place. As long as there is demand for the service, somebody will provide it.
 
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enilria
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Re: F9 to Charge $39-89 for Empty Seat Next to You

Wed May 06, 2020 2:38 pm

chonetsao wrote:
well, IATA already said they support face mask but against middle seat free policy.

I agree media may not take it well, but somehow I can see passengers go for it.

The airlines are desperate it not become law.
I have to wonder if they will prevent non-revs and stand-bys from taking those seats. The airlines that are doing it for free are still allowing these passengers into middle seats.
eta unknown wrote:
With so few pax flying I'd take a chance the seat would be vacant anyway.

They will likely pack people together unless they take this deal.
 
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enilria
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Re: F9 to Charge $39-89 for Empty Seat Next to You

Wed May 06, 2020 2:38 pm

chonetsao wrote:
well, IATA already said they support face mask but against middle seat free policy.

I agree media may not take it well, but somehow I can see passengers go for it.

The airlines are desperate it not become law.
I have to wonder if they will prevent non-revs and stand-bys from taking those seats. The airlines that are doing it for free are still allowing these passengers into middle seats.
eta unknown wrote:
With so few pax flying I'd take a chance the seat would be vacant anyway.

They will likely pack people together unless they take this deal.
 
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SR380
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:32 pm

Interesting article about the CORONA impact on aviation industry, and what government COULD request in exchange of these huge bailout:

https://www.climatechangenews.com/2020/ ... -bailouts/

Do you think the CORONA crises will be a turning point, such as the diesel gate was for the automotive industry?

Beside aircraft test bed, such as the Tupolev Tu-155, is there any other aircraft that actually flew with liquid hydrogen beside light turboprop?
 
Brickell305
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Doug Parker calls out airlines cutting work hours despite accepting CARES funding

Wed May 06, 2020 5:48 pm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 1631916efd

American Airlines CEO Says United Can’t Legally Shift Workers From Full-Time To Part-Time, Sources Say

American Airlines AAL does not agree with United Airlines’ UAL assertion that it is legal to shift full-time workers to part-time status on May 24 after accepting a CARES Act grant that forbids furloughs before Oct. 1, aviation sources say.

In a labor-management telephone meeting Tuesday, American CEO Doug Parker said United is incorrect in saying that it can shift workers from full-time to part-time after accepting the grant.

“Some airlines think it is OK to go and cut employees’ hours,” Parker said, according to notes and recollections from two people who listened to the meeting but asked not to be named.

“One [airline] is cutting full-time from 40 hours to 30, a 25% cut in pay,” Parker said. “I was there when we were working on CARES and that wasn’t the intent or meaning of it.

“And that is not just for union employees – it is for non-union, too,” Parker said, according to the two people. “We disagree with [United’s] position, and if anyone asks, we will let them know we disagree with their position. “

United said Friday that it plans to shift about 13,800 workers, including fleet service workers and passenger service agents, from full-time to part-time on May 24. The workers are members of the International Association of Machinists, which represents 28,000 workers at United, making it the largest union at the carrier.

(Continued in link)
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1481
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Doug Parker calls out airlines cutting work hours despite accepting CARES funding

Wed May 06, 2020 6:04 pm

United has (sorta) walked their plan back a bit:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... a8e0627b9f
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
OB1504
Posts: 3937
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Doug Parker calls out airlines cutting work hours despite accepting CARES funding

Wed May 06, 2020 6:14 pm

Doug “We will never lose money again” Parker has a tendency to say things that don’t age well.

I predict that he’s going to look like a huge hypocrite in the next few months.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Doug Parker calls out airlines cutting work hours despite accepting CARES funding

Wed May 06, 2020 6:17 pm

Just a heads up AAL Is cutting their part-time Fleet Service hours by roughly half at AA/Envoy/Piedmont so that equates to a 50% pay cut which seems like a violation of the cares act. They closed the Envoy station at MIA for the month of May do you think they are being paid 100% while they are at home?
 
tphuang
Posts: 5071
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 6:51 pm

Is this a situation where UA cannot get away with skirting rules due to union presence but DL and B6 can?
 
marcogr12
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 7:37 pm

factsonly wrote:
Current operations by the three airlines:

BA - May 6, 2020 - in air at the time, so more scheduled:

BA 18 - Seoul/Incheon
BA 55 - Johannesburg
BA 87 - Beijing
BA 97 - Toronto
BA 159 - Shanghai
BA 167 - Shanghai
BA 191 - Dallas
BA 207 - Miami
BA 225 - Atlanta
BA 281 - Los Angeles
BA 283 - San Francisco
BA 293 - Chicago
BA 3587 - Edmonton
BA 430 - Amsterdam
BA 478 - Barcelona
BA - Aberdeen
BA - Manchester
BA - Paris
BA - Edinburgh
BA - Washington
BA - Gibraltar
BA - Boston
BA - New York
BA - Isle of Man
BA - Dhaka




KLM - May 6, 2020 - scheduled:

KL 862 Tokyo/Narita
KL 868 Osaka
KL 896 Shanghai Pudong
KL 897 Beijing Capital
KL 855 Seoul/Incheon
KL 611 Chicago O'Hare
KL 885 Bangkok/Suvarnabhumi
KL 887 Hong Kong/Chek Lap Kok
KL 836 Singapore Changi
KL 791 São Paulo
KL 743 Bogota
KL 758 Tocumen
KL 428 Dubai
KL 692 Toronto/Lester B. Pearson
KL 646 New York/John F Kennedy
KL 1724 Brussels
KL 1230 Paris/Charles de Gaulle
KL 1352 Prague/Ruzyně
KL 1008 London Heathrow
KL 1344 Billund
KL 1444 Aberdeen Dyce
KL 1766 Frankfurt-am-Main/Frankfurt am Main
KL 1128 Copenhagen Kastrup
KL 1794 Munich
KL 1870 Stuttgart
KL 1780 Hamburg
KL 1856 Düsseldorf
KL 1074 Manchester
KL 1156 Gothenburg-Landvetter
KL 1824 Berlin-Tegel
KL 1958 Zurich/Zürich
KL 1144 Oslo Gardermoen
KL 1846 Vienna
KL 1928 Geneva Cointrin
KL 946 Dublin
KL 1426 Birmingham
KL 1636 Milan/Malpensa
KL 1110 Stockholm-Arlanda
KL 1278 Edinburgh
KL 1974 Budapest Ferenc Liszt
KL 1630 Milan/Malpensa
KL 1670 Barcelona
KL 1168 Helsinki Vantaa
KL 1694 Lisbon Portela
KL 1602 Rome/Leonardo da Vinci–Fiumicino
KL 1702 Adolfo Suárez Madrid–Barajas
KL 686 Mexico City/Licenciado Benito Juarez
KL 808 Taipei/Taiwan Taoyuan

Lufthansa - Frankfurt May 6, 2020 in the air - so more scheduled:

LH - Amsterdam
LH - Berlin
LH - Brussels
LH - Copenhagen
LH - Hamburg
LH - Stockholm
LH - Lisbon
LH - London
LH - Helsinki
LH - Barcelona
LH - Madrid
LH - Geneva
LH - Milan
LH - Rome
LH - Paris
LH - Zurich
LH - Vienna
LH - Shanghai
LH - Beijing
LH - Bangkok
LH - Tokyo
LH - Chicago
LH - Nanjing
LH - Seoul/Incheon
LH - MUC - Shanghai
LH - MUC - Seoul/Incheon
LH - plus 1x A380 and 1x A346 heading towards Teruel ?


I am surprised that these airlines maintain flights to virus worst-hit cities like Madrid, Milan,Barcelona,Rome,London etc when many others have suspended flights
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: BA, LH and KLM surviving crisis better than others?

Wed May 06, 2020 7:55 pm

seahawk wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Many would say governments are doing way too much and are dangerously influencing the the future aviation market by giving subsidies to the legacies.



But if they wouldn't do it, it would be political suicide. Airlines (especially the legacies) are such a part of the countries identity.

For many Dutch people, KLM feels like 'coming home' when they board the plane. I can only imagine this being the same for Germans or Brits when boarding a LH/BA flight.

I remember this articleabout the demise of Swissair in 2001, how that affected a whole country and the images its citizens had about themselves.


That is no argument imho, the only valid argument is imho that a national airline is a strategic asset in a crisis. When you look at the repatriation flights or now flying in supplies, there is case to be made for that.


You'll be surprised how 'feelings' can be one of the arguments to save (or to NOT save) an airline. There's still anger in Belgium about the demise of Sabena and why it wasn't saved. And in South Africa the voice to stop wasting money on a super unprofitable airline has grown very loudly. Look at Italy: the never ending saga of the never profitable Alitalia, everyone here agrees to let AZ go but the feelings in Italy however....
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 999
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - May 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 8:22 pm

tphuang wrote:
Is this a situation where UA cannot get away with skirting rules due to union presence but DL and B6 can?

The union filed a lawsuit against them and they began to walk back their initial memo.
 
User avatar
malaysia
Posts: 2661
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:26 am

Re: Doug Parker calls out airlines cutting work hours despite accepting CARES funding

Wed May 06, 2020 9:00 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2020/05/05/american-airlines-ceo-says-united-cannot-legally-shift-workers-from-fulltime-to-parttime-sources-say/#181631916efd

American Airlines CEO Says United Can’t Legally Shift Workers From Full-Time To Part-Time, Sources Say

American Airlines AAL does not agree with United Airlines’ UAL assertion that it is legal to shift full-time workers to part-time status on May 24 after accepting a CARES Act grant that forbids furloughs before Oct. 1, aviation sources say.

In a labor-management telephone meeting Tuesday, American CEO Doug Parker said United is incorrect in saying that it can shift workers from full-time to part-time after accepting the grant.

“Some airlines think it is OK to go and cut employees’ hours,” Parker said, according to notes and recollections from two people who listened to the meeting but asked not to be named.

“One [airline] is cutting full-time from 40 hours to 30, a 25% cut in pay,” Parker said. “I was there when we were working on CARES and that wasn’t the intent or meaning of it.

“And that is not just for union employees – it is for non-union, too,” Parker said, according to the two people. “We disagree with [United’s] position, and if anyone asks, we will let them know we disagree with their position. “

United said Friday that it plans to shift about 13,800 workers, including fleet service workers and passenger service agents, from full-time to part-time on May 24. The workers are members of the International Association of Machinists, which represents 28,000 workers at United, making it the largest union at the carrier.

(Continued in link)



Sounds like AA wants to make sure UA will lose more money thru September 30?
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4672
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Doug Parker calls out airlines cutting work hours despite accepting CARES funding

Wed May 06, 2020 9:03 pm

malaysia wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2020/05/05/american-airlines-ceo-says-united-cannot-legally-shift-workers-from-fulltime-to-parttime-sources-say/#181631916efd

American Airlines CEO Says United Can’t Legally Shift Workers From Full-Time To Part-Time, Sources Say

American Airlines AAL does not agree with United Airlines’ UAL assertion that it is legal to shift full-time workers to part-time status on May 24 after accepting a CARES Act grant that forbids furloughs before Oct. 1, aviation sources say.

In a labor-management telephone meeting Tuesday, American CEO Doug Parker said United is incorrect in saying that it can shift workers from full-time to part-time after accepting the grant.

“Some airlines think it is OK to go and cut employees’ hours,” Parker said, according to notes and recollections from two people who listened to the meeting but asked not to be named.

“One [airline] is cutting full-time from 40 hours to 30, a 25% cut in pay,” Parker said. “I was there when we were working on CARES and that wasn’t the intent or meaning of it.

“And that is not just for union employees – it is for non-union, too,” Parker said, according to the two people. “We disagree with [United’s] position, and if anyone asks, we will let them know we disagree with their position. “

United said Friday that it plans to shift about 13,800 workers, including fleet service workers and passenger service agents, from full-time to part-time on May 24. The workers are members of the International Association of Machinists, which represents 28,000 workers at United, making it the largest union at the carrier.

(Continued in link)



Sounds like AA wants to make sure UA will lose more money thru September 30?


Or he wants to hold them accountable and make sure everyone is playing by the same set of rules.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Doug Parker calls out airlines cutting work hours despite accepting CARES funding

Wed May 06, 2020 9:10 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
malaysia wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2020/05/05/american-airlines-ceo-says-united-cannot-legally-shift-workers-from-fulltime-to-parttime-sources-say/#181631916efd

American Airlines CEO Says United Can’t Legally Shift Workers From Full-Time To Part-Time, Sources Say

American Airlines AAL does not agree with United Airlines’ UAL assertion that it is legal to shift full-time workers to part-time status on May 24 after accepting a CARES Act grant that forbids furloughs before Oct. 1, aviation sources say.

In a labor-management telephone meeting Tuesday, American CEO Doug Parker said United is incorrect in saying that it can shift workers from full-time to part-time after accepting the grant.

“Some airlines think it is OK to go and cut employees’ hours,” Parker said, according to notes and recollections from two people who listened to the meeting but asked not to be named.

“One [airline] is cutting full-time from 40 hours to 30, a 25% cut in pay,” Parker said. “I was there when we were working on CARES and that wasn’t the intent or meaning of it.

“And that is not just for union employees – it is for non-union, too,” Parker said, according to the two people. “We disagree with [United’s] position, and if anyone asks, we will let them know we disagree with their position. “

United said Friday that it plans to shift about 13,800 workers, including fleet service workers and passenger service agents, from full-time to part-time on May 24. The workers are members of the International Association of Machinists, which represents 28,000 workers at United, making it the largest union at the carrier.

(Continued in link)



Sounds like AA wants to make sure UA will lose more money thru September 30?


Or he wants to hold them accountable and make sure everyone is playing by the same set of rules.


Will be interesting to see if Congress or the govt in general takes action or if this will all play out on its own... I’m sure the non-unionized employees at these companies won’t see any benefit until govt power steps in

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