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Sdmccray1984
Topic Author
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:07 am

Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 3:29 am

I’ve always been intrigued by HND’s enormous passenger throughput given the relatively low number of gates. Take a look at the overall infrastructure of HND, which actually seems smaller than neighboring NRT. How on earth are they able to turn over 87 million passengers per year?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3237
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 3:43 am

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
I’ve always been intrigued by HND’s enormous passenger throughput given the relatively low number of gates. Take a look at the overall infrastructure of HND, which actually seems smaller than neighboring NRT. How on earth are they able to turn over 87 million passengers per year?


How many narrowbody aircraft do you see at HND?

Also, according to OAG, FUK-HND was the fifth busiest domestic route in the world in 2019 with 39,406 flights, followed by CTS-HND in seventh place with 39,271 flights.

CTS-HND was mostly widebodies while FUK-HND still saw quite a few widebody aircraft.
 
United857
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:37 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 4:04 am

Ishrion wrote:
Sdmccray1984 wrote:
I’ve always been intrigued by HND’s enormous passenger throughput given the relatively low number of gates. Take a look at the overall infrastructure of HND, which actually seems smaller than neighboring NRT. How on earth are they able to turn over 87 million passengers per year?


How many narrowbody aircraft do you see at HND?

Also, according to OAG, FUK-HND was the fifth busiest domestic route in the world in 2019 with 39,406 flights, followed by CTS-HND in seventh place with 39,271 flights.

CTS-HND was mostly widebodies while FUK-HND still saw quite a few widebody aircraft.

Not just wide bodies, but extremely high density Japanese domestic config aircraft. For reference, ANA seats 405 on its 777-200, 514 on its 777-300, 335 on its 787-8, and 395 on its 787-9 on domestically configured aircraft.
A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A346 A388 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748 B752 B764 B772 B77L B77W B788 B789 CRJ2 E145 E75S E75L E190 MD88 MD90
AA AC B6 CA CX CZ DL EK FM HU JL KA LH LX MU NH NK TK UA US
 
747WanSui
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:06 pm

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 4:14 am

Remember that back when domestic flights were operated by 747s, those aircraft were also configured to seat over 500 passengers per flight.
Long live the Boeing 747!
 
Tokyo777
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:29 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 4:19 am

In addition, they can turn an aircraft in about 40 minutes. 400 people off, 400 people on, and out it goes. And, they have 4 runways. What will be remarkable is how much the numbers increase now that the airspace restrictions have changed and they can utilize more runways throughout the day. We won't know the true effect of that until travel returns to pre-Covid19 levels.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1310
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 4:22 am

Lots of high-density widebodies used on Domestic and short regional routes. It's closer to Downtown Tokyo area compared to Narita, so business people prefer this airport.

B777-200, B777-300 and B767 dominates the routes in this airport.
 
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centrair
Posts: 2899
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 5:31 am

Tokyo777 wrote:
In addition, they can turn an aircraft in about 40 minutes. 400 people off, 400 people on, and out it goes. And, they have 4 runways. What will be remarkable is how much the numbers increase now that the airspace restrictions have changed and they can utilize more runways throughout the day. We won't know the true effect of that until travel returns to pre-Covid19 levels.


There is now a small but growing number of people in Shinjuku, Shibuya and Minato areas of Tokyo who don't want the new afternoon arrival approach and are petitioning the government not to finalize it. Since Corona, this arrival approach has not gone forward as there isn't as much traffic.

As for the total pax numbers.
HND 24hr operations on 4 runways vs NRT's 16hr operations on 2 runways
Two domestic terminals with many high density routes like HND-FUK, HND-ITM, HND-CTS
One international terminal with multiple flights per day in higher density configurations on HND-SEL and HND-SHA
NH is expanding their domestic terminal to handle international arrivals and departures (Star to move most operations there).
Delta moved their operations from NRT to HND (except NRT-HNL)
Many other airlines are moving operations from NRT to HND or adding flights to HND; BA, AY, LH, and more
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
ewt340
Posts: 1310
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 1:31 pm

Also, even though shinkansen is nice. It's not as affordable as people think. Non-reserved is around $90 or more for one way ticket. Sometimes you could get $50/$60 for flight instead.
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 1:49 pm

centrair wrote:
Tokyo777 wrote:
In addition, they can turn an aircraft in about 40 minutes. 400 people off, 400 people on, and out it goes. And, they have 4 runways. What will be remarkable is how much the numbers increase now that the airspace restrictions have changed and they can utilize more runways throughout the day. We won't know the true effect of that until travel returns to pre-Covid19 levels.


There is now a small but growing number of people in Shinjuku, Shibuya and Minato areas of Tokyo who don't want the new afternoon arrival approach and are petitioning the government not to finalize it. Since Corona, this arrival approach has not gone forward as there isn't as much traffic.

As for the total pax numbers.
HND 24hr operations on 4 runways vs NRT's 16hr operations on 2 runways
Two domestic terminals with many high density routes like HND-FUK, HND-ITM, HND-CTS
One international terminal with multiple flights per day in higher density configurations on HND-SEL and HND-SHA
NH is expanding their domestic terminal to handle international arrivals and departures (Star to move most operations there).
Delta moved their operations from NRT to HND (except NRT-HNL)
Many other airlines are moving operations from NRT to HND or adding flights to HND; BA, AY, LH, and more


Both NH and JL use long-haul standard widebody to SHA/SEL
 
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Pudelhund
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 2:05 pm

The most efficient turnaround I have ever seen in my life was an Air Do 767. And it took about 20 minutes to board the entire aircraft. HND-CTS. Also it was much cleaner and in better condition than any US3 767 I had been on in the last decade, despite having old seats and projectors still... it was like a museum. I think the Japanese are really on another level with domestic air travel.
 
leader1
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:44 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 2:08 pm

HND is actually the bigger airport - more runways, more gates, bigger terminals and I think it occupies a greater area. NRT really isn’t all that big. Japanese airports also have tight slot restrictions because of the surrounding airspace and noise abatement. Because of the massive travel demand and tight restrictions, airlines are inclined to use large aircraft for their domestic routes, despite of the short distances flown. That runs up the numbers at HND.
Leader-1
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 2:23 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
centrair wrote:
Tokyo777 wrote:
In addition, they can turn an aircraft in about 40 minutes. 400 people off, 400 people on, and out it goes. And, they have 4 runways. What will be remarkable is how much the numbers increase now that the airspace restrictions have changed and they can utilize more runways throughout the day. We won't know the true effect of that until travel returns to pre-Covid19 levels.


There is now a small but growing number of people in Shinjuku, Shibuya and Minato areas of Tokyo who don't want the new afternoon arrival approach and are petitioning the government not to finalize it. Since Corona, this arrival approach has not gone forward as there isn't as much traffic.

As for the total pax numbers.
HND 24hr operations on 4 runways vs NRT's 16hr operations on 2 runways
Two domestic terminals with many high density routes like HND-FUK, HND-ITM, HND-CTS
One international terminal with multiple flights per day in higher density configurations on HND-SEL and HND-SHA
NH is expanding their domestic terminal to handle international arrivals and departures (Star to move most operations there).
Delta moved their operations from NRT to HND (except NRT-HNL)
Many other airlines are moving operations from NRT to HND or adding flights to HND; BA, AY, LH, and more


Both NH and JL use long-haul standard widebody to SHA/SEL


Not 100% true either as NH and JL has some very low density (i.e. 212 seats 77W) for some "premium" long-haul routes. But yes, JL and NH has a completely separate Domestic and Intl fleet, down to their 738s.

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
I’ve always been intrigued by HND’s enormous passenger throughput given the relatively low number of gates. Take a look at the overall infrastructure of HND, which actually seems smaller than neighboring NRT. How on earth are they able to turn over 87 million passengers per year?


Remote stands are the answer - that adds something like 10-12 gates easily per terminal.
 
Karlsands
Posts: 235
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:53 pm

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 2:53 pm

Remember the Tokyo metro area is the largest city by population in the world , lots of people in and out
 
SeoulIncheon
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:52 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sat May 02, 2020 3:36 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
centrair wrote:

There is now a small but growing number of people in Shinjuku, Shibuya and Minato areas of Tokyo who don't want the new afternoon arrival approach and are petitioning the government not to finalize it. Since Corona, this arrival approach has not gone forward as there isn't as much traffic.

As for the total pax numbers.
HND 24hr operations on 4 runways vs NRT's 16hr operations on 2 runways
Two domestic terminals with many high density routes like HND-FUK, HND-ITM, HND-CTS
One international terminal with multiple flights per day in higher density configurations on HND-SEL and HND-SHA
NH is expanding their domestic terminal to handle international arrivals and departures (Star to move most operations there).
Delta moved their operations from NRT to HND (except NRT-HNL)
Many other airlines are moving operations from NRT to HND or adding flights to HND; BA, AY, LH, and more


Both NH and JL use long-haul standard widebody to SHA/SEL


Not 100% true either as NH and JL has some very low density (i.e. 212 seats 77W) for some "premium" long-haul routes. But yes, JL and NH has a completely separate Domestic and Intl fleet, down to their 738s.

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
I’ve always been intrigued by HND’s enormous passenger throughput given the relatively low number of gates. Take a look at the overall infrastructure of HND, which actually seems smaller than neighboring NRT. How on earth are they able to turn over 87 million passengers per year?


Remote stands are the answer - that adds something like 10-12 gates easily per terminal.


Not always. JL 777s are long-haul configured, JL 788s flying to GMP and SHA are usually regionally configured (with angle-flat business class). NH 788/789s flying HND to East Asia are usually regionally configured.
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sun May 03, 2020 11:33 am

MLIT (DOT of Japan) consider building 5th runway of HND after Olympic
Image
 
blandy62
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:47 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sun May 03, 2020 12:27 pm

somehow HND doesn't look like it (at least T1 and T2) but it is a massive place
 
a19901213
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:38 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sun May 03, 2020 1:22 pm

Demand flying among big cities in Japan is huge. After all most population is concentrated in metropolitan areas like Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya etc.

In addition Japanese government has been notorious for putting too much resources in Tokyo and ignoring the development of rural Japan hence it makes HND even more prominent than ever.
 
leader1
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:44 am

Re: Tokyo-Haneda really does 87,098,683 passengers?

Sun May 03, 2020 2:24 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
MLIT (DOT of Japan) consider building 5th runway of HND after Olympic
Image

Where did you find that? I’ve been looking for that graphic for ages.
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