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flee
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Wed May 06, 2020 11:23 am

Yes, it is all about aircraft utilisation - planes don't make money if they are not flying.
 
JonesNL
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Wed May 06, 2020 11:50 am

N14AZ wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
Didn't SQ retire some older A380s and no one took them? Can't they just convert those?

I don't think so 8-)

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bthebest
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Wed May 06, 2020 12:31 pm

Quote from Press Release:

"As the workscope comprises much more than just taking out seats, you need engineering experts who know exactly what the challenges are and how to document the technical solutions so correctly that the aviation authorities agree. The current exemption and our solution for it can be transferred to our Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) at a later point of time without major adjustments. This means that anyone who opts for Lufthansa Technik's exceptional solution now can easily switch to the permanent STC solution later."

So I interpret it as a comprehensive technical modification, but with little airframe changes, and a 2 part certification. Modification likely includes cargo handling & fire ex systems, and weight/loading substantiations. Certification is then 2 part with 1st being under the current temporary exemptions for use under passenger aircraft cert, with the 2nd being transferring to a cargo aircraft cert via an STC.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: First A380 passenger to cargo conversion

Wed May 06, 2020 1:53 pm

ELBOB wrote:
lightsaber wrote:

This isn't a conversion. It is legally flying without seats with cargo, of light weight, held down with straps secured by seat tracks. It is formalizing this for multiple aircraft types, not just the A380.


I wouldn't say it's doing it "legally" by the letter of the law since it doesn't meet cargo transport requirements.

It's documenting it in form of a temporary STC as an exemption. Pretty shoddy that authorities are allowing such exemptions instead of insisting on hold-only cargo carriage. I guess it's all fine until a cabin load of boxed PPE goes up in fire; a half-assed STC won't help then.

You are aware that there is a sanitary crisis worldwide and that, right now, a lot is done to control it, even if borderline as far as law is concerned?
Things need to be done right now; can't wait for every one and their brother to chime in.
 
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Revelation
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Wed May 06, 2020 3:23 pm

Stitch wrote:
As links have noted, this is a temporary conversion and likely only for the Economy Class section since those seats can be quickly removed. Since the upper deck is usually Premium Cabin seating, those seats will almost certainly be left untouched.

It's really hard to see how this temporary conversion works for any airline that doesn't have one of the big twins (777, A350) available to it.

You're still flying around the enormous weight of the A380 itself, and the weight of upper deck fit out and even some premium on the main deck, and dealing with its relatively limited space under the deck because of the huge wing box and unstretched fuse, and can't really put a lot of weight on the main deck since it's not built to take it and since you can't get stuff in and out the pax door.

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 47.article is up today and says:

While the modification is intended to comply with temporary passenger-to-freight regulatory exemptions drawn up to meet demand during the coronavirus crisis, the company indicates that it will offer the conversion as a permanent solution.

“The current exemption and our solution for it can be transferred to our supplemental type certificate at a later point in time without major adjustments,” says aircraft modification base maintenance senior director Henning Jochmann.

“Anyone who opts for Lufthansa Technik’s exceptional solution now can easily switch to the permanent [supplementary type certification] solution later.”

I suppose it's nice to be able to find something of use to do with otherwise unwanted A380s but as above I'm pretty dubious about the value they provide. The trip costs are going to be enormous for, what, maybe a 767F or A330F's load of freight?
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Stitch
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Wed May 06, 2020 3:36 pm

ELBOB wrote:
I wouldn't say it's doing it "legally" by the letter of the law since it doesn't meet cargo transport requirements. It's documenting it in form of a temporary STC as an exemption.


It sounds like they're making it an STC because the current process is based on exceptions that are being implemented on an ad hoc basis by airlines and local certifying authorities.
 
ltbewr
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Wed May 06, 2020 3:41 pm

With these exceptional conversions, they won't be able to transport stuff with lithium based batteries like computers, but there is plenty of time sensitive high value cargo they could. They could transport pharmaceutical drugs or component chemicals, medical equipment, PPE, some seasonal clothing, safety equipment, non-battery containing electronics, business paperwork, car parts, freeing full freighters to concentrate on more risky, bulky freight. Likely China, Taiwan, India, would be the sources of much of the freight demand for these limited conversions.
 
Ishrion
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:29 am

Is there any update on who the customer is?
 
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AECM
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:25 pm

Hifly posted today on Instagram the conversion of their A380 to cargo (removal of economy seats) to a total of 300 m3 and up to 60 tons of cargo

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CCVif-9lqK ... vfqo2apmc6
 
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lightsaber
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:16 pm

ltbewr wrote:
With these exceptional conversions, they won't be able to transport stuff with lithium based batteries like computers, but there is plenty of time sensitive high value cargo they could. They could transport pharmaceutical drugs or component chemicals, medical equipment, PPE, some seasonal clothing, safety equipment, non-battery containing electronics, business paperwork, car parts, freeing full freighters to concentrate on more risky, bulky freight. Likely China, Taiwan, India, would be the sources of much of the freight demand for these limited conversions.

I am personally well aware of the laptop shortage and how many are being air freighted. Catia takes more laptop with remote security than at the office.

The big hit is the long loading/unloading times.

The regular freighters will continue to go for the highest paying freight. If stuff not allowed on these conversions, that is great. If PPE or pharma pays more, than overall rates decline.

From what little I've seen, volume is low, this is just displacing belly freight.

A good short term use. Sometime we will return to normal.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
AndoAv8R
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:16 pm

I'd be interested in seeing a A380 Combi. Seems like it would be the best utilization, freight on main deck then a combination business/economy or all economy seating on the upper deck.
 
mxaxai
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm

AndoAv8R wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing a A380 Combi. Seems like it would be the best utilization, freight on main deck then a combination business/economy or all economy seating on the upper deck.

That would require additional fire safety systems and bulkheads. Not impossible, but a significant certification effort.
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:46 pm

mxaxai wrote:
AndoAv8R wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing a A380 Combi. Seems like it would be the best utilization, freight on main deck then a combination business/economy or all economy seating on the upper deck.

That would require additional fire safety systems and bulkheads. Not impossible, but a significant certification effort.

Even if a Combi conversion were figured out who would likely be able to build a business plan to make profit from running Combis across the world? The Combi pros were KLM. Air Canada made good profit on Combis in the old days. Is there a practical reason to even spend investigation time? There are a lot of A380s sitting idle. It could be a miraculous solution for some of the aircraft's second life or a waste of time.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: A380 passenger to 'auxilary freighter'

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:10 pm

aristoenigma wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
AndoAv8R wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing a A380 Combi. Seems like it would be the best utilization, freight on main deck then a combination business/economy or all economy seating on the upper deck.

That would require additional fire safety systems and bulkheads. Not impossible, but a significant certification effort.

Even if a Combi conversion were figured out who would likely be able to build a business plan to make profit from running Combis across the world? The Combi pros were KLM. Air Canada made good profit on Combis in the old days. Is there a practical reason to even spend investigation time? There are a lot of A380s sitting idle. It could be a miraculous solution for some of the aircraft's second life or a waste of time.

It would be great, but no Lithium batteries allowed. That would reduce the market. I think viable, but it isn't as if my money were at risk.

At least HiFly is making some revenue.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.

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