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readytotaxi
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Thu May 07, 2020 4:41 pm

Image

Should HSBC be looking for a refund from all those empty gates? :stirthepot:
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
Max Q
Topic Author
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Thu May 07, 2020 9:43 pm

Exeiowa wrote:
I will give you the script for the only advert worth running at this time.

Roll Stock footage of the spacious part of the plane make sure no one is too close together and with a smooth voice over read the following line

"When you're ready we will be there..."

Show outside shot of plane above clouds or dramatic sparsely populated scenery (mountain range?)

Put up corporate logo.

You can have that for free.

Reminds people you exist, gives warm fuzzy feeling about the after time, no stupid platitudes.




This is exactly what I mean, the advert should include shots of all the cabin cleaning measures undertaken daily and the voice over should mention that every possible precaution is being taken for the cleanest traveling environment available



I think this is the message that should be put out and on a daily basis


‘When you’re ready we’ll be there’

Brilliant
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
usa330300
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:29 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Thu May 07, 2020 10:03 pm

CALMSP wrote:
agree with above, outside of social media and emails, no need to spend money on advertising. It would serve no purpose and bring in no real revenue.

Wholeheartedly disagree. They need to begin advertising through mainstream media channels, TV, Radio and Print.
 
stlgph
Posts: 11221
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Thu May 07, 2020 10:16 pm

usa330300 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
agree with above, outside of social media and emails, no need to spend money on advertising. It would serve no purpose and bring in no real revenue.

Wholeheartedly disagree. They need to begin advertising through mainstream media channels, TV, Radio and Print.


You don't advertise just to advertise. You target a specific audience type, a key demo of that type, etc. etc. and you drill down with a specific message for that service which goes out on the best channels and then broken out into subchannels and beyond in order to reach that audience. Since right now flight loads are a total abortion and most travel is out of necessity of some form, there is no clear audience or good channel to go on. You'll get absolutely *nothing* in return for all the investment made into research, development, concept, production, execution and so on and so forth. The largest and most receptive markets for advertising dollars are still in stay-at-home mode.

Airlines right now are in the news for all the wrong reasons. It's completely stupid to have a headline come out about how carrier XX is requiring this, that, cutting back such service, laying off people, etc. etc., then having that be followed with paid advertising for "come fly us to somewhere - we're not sure where, but somewhere!" It's a total waste of money, time and effort.

So again, as I posted earlier. No, now is not the time for paid advertising.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Thu May 07, 2020 10:32 pm

I think A4A as a trade group should put together an ad of the "When you're ready..." variety. In the meantime, social media content like this will be the norm:

https://youtu.be/L2p8pLOzKyc
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
jreeves96
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Thu May 07, 2020 10:58 pm

Had the opportunity to fly both Delta and American this week.

Delta is blowing American out of the water right now. Delta already requires masks at the gate and in flight. The gate agent checked everybody's seat to make sure there the middle seat was empty. First leg was a 737-800 and second was a MD-88. Both gate agents did a good job and if they missed someone, the flight attendants would move people. After walking on the aircraft one flight attendant handed us a sanitary wipe. I used mine for the belt buckle, arm rests, try table, and the 737 IFE. We then got a zip lock bag with a small water, cookies, cheez its, a napkin, and another sanitary wipe. The aircraft also smelled clean and was clean. Seat belts placed on their seat in a nice fashion.

Then came American who literally isn't doing anything. First leg was a 737. No sanitary wipes, honestly don't think the aircraft was cleaned. Had a weird musty smell. Seat back pockets were a mess and the seat belts were thrown everywhere. No sanitary wipes, no service. I was lucky enough to have wet wipes in my back pack and had the whole row by myself. On the second leg, a CRJ-700, I initially had the seat next to me empty. I was in the second to last row and a passenger sat behind me. The flight attendant was in the last row also across the aisle and made the passenger behind me move to next to me to social distance. All she did was move the passenger away from her and closer to me and other passengers. There were empty rows but the flight attendants wouldn't allow people to move.

American preached social distancing and safety all throughout Charlotte but didn't uphold their own practice on the airplanes.
 
Max Q
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 1:00 am

Perception will trail reality considerably coming out of this which WILL happen


The public will understandably remain wary of travel for quite a while after theres no increased risk to


So this is the time to start putting the message out there, perhaps a collaborative effort from all airlines would be more effective (and save individual advertising costs) a steady, consistent campaign to highlighting the precautions taken by the airlines AND what rules passengers must follow such as distancing and face masks


This will help reassure passengers, allow them to at least start considering travel and provide increased awareness of the reality of air travel in this environment



It’s definitely not too early, it’s going to be a long road back and it’s important to get on it
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
mpsrent
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 2:27 am

The elephant in the room is the unknown real potential of a second Covid-19 wave later this year. All efforts to return to normalcy may go out the window if countries are forced to reintroduce tough controls. Consequently, what exactly can an airline advertise if they really don't know when they can provide consumers with their services? Until there is some certainty, the low cost option of using your consumer contact database is likely the best option.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 4:01 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Trust me anyone who is spending all day and every day on video conference and conference calls actually wants to be back in the office and/or travel to some extent.
Its painful.
The novelty has worn-off after nearly 8 weeks of this.

I am all for flexibility and working from home/remote when it makes sense, but most positions aren't effective for extended periods of time under these conditions.


Exactly right. The current conditions are an impediment to creativity, to teamwork, to focus and clarity of thought, and to employee morale. The occasional "I need to work from home for a day or two" is not remotely the same as doing so permanently.
 
brilondon
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 7:04 pm

Galore wrote:
Didn’t a downturn trigger the plane lounge wars in the early 1970s? I’d say, bring back the coach lounges and piano bars on widebodies. Make people enjoy flying again!

I don't know if you have traveled in the last 10 years but airlines aren't really able to free up that space. Most have been trying to figure out how to generate more revenue from the same airplanes as before.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
brilondon
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 7:05 pm

Galore wrote:
Didn’t a downturn trigger the plane lounge wars in the early 1970s? I’d say, bring back the coach lounges and piano bars on widebodies. Make people enjoy flying again!

I don't know if you have traveled in the last 10 years but airlines aren't really able to free up that space. Most have been trying to figure out how to generate more revenue from the same airplanes as before.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 7:31 pm

Max Q wrote:
It’s definitely not too early, it’s going to be a long road back and it’s important to get on it


It's not? Not that long ago a U.S. carrier CEO said 'There's no demand at any price.' Advertising needs to pay for itself - particularly at a time when carriers are really, really cash-poor. 1Q20 is going to look sweet compared to 2Q20.

What's the evidence that prospective passengers lack awareness but are really ready to buy?

AA cited more search activity - but said specifically it wasn't translating to bookings.

B6 said its load factor was up a bit - but they've cut a lot more flights. They didn't say passenger numbers were up.

UA said that net bookings -- (new minus cancellations) -- were zero, with no signs of uptick on its earnings conference call.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 7:58 pm

What about the advertising for branded cards, these have been a considerable money maker for airlines in recent years, hard to attract users of said card, if perk is of questionable lure.
 
catiii
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 8:02 pm

Max Q wrote:
I think people are so wary (rightfully) of travel right now that reaching out to them via advertising of any form, but especially TV is important


It may cost money but it’s important, it needs to be communicated what measures are being undertaken to keep passengers as safe as possible



With awareness, the beginning of a road back can begin


TV advertising isn’t effective, especially given the number of cord cutters.
 
catiii
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 8:05 pm

usa330300 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
agree with above, outside of social media and emails, no need to spend money on advertising. It would serve no purpose and bring in no real revenue.

Wholeheartedly disagree. They need to begin advertising through mainstream media channels, TV, Radio and Print.


Print and TV?! Maybe, maybe if you’re targeting a crowd of a certain age, call it 65 and over. Taking out a newspaper ad is a waste of money.
 
Exeiowa
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 8:13 pm

Right now there is a vertical ad either side of where I am typing I did not even know what it was until I actively looked at it. Their targeting sucks. Just because I am interested in aviation I am not buying a bowser, I do not own a cat, I never will get another credit card and I cant say I have never clicked on an ad (intentionally) and definitely never bought a product through one. I think its some kind of myth that its actually that effective, or maybe it doesn't really work on me.

Nope not buying a Galaxy watch but nice try...
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 08, 2020 10:03 pm

evank516 wrote:

I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the short term, yes, but I think in the long term most companies that did engage in travel will likely go back to doing so. Video conferencing is great for small groups, but once you go over 10 or so people, it usually involves at least 1/3 if not more of the meeting going like this:

-Grace are you there?
-Johnny, we are having trouble hearing you, are you there?
-Rick is your audio on?
-I think we just lost Noelle. Noelle are you still there?
-Jillian, you are really echo-y.
-Kevin, we can see you but we can't hear you.
-Mike, I am going to mute you for a second because Susan is trying to talk.
-Can you repeat that?
-Chris, is there a kid talking in the background?

I was supposed to fly out to San Francisco for a meeting today. Around 2 hours of the meeting basically went as above. It was probably the biggest waste of time, and both my boss (and her boss) largely agreed. So unless they are going to invest in IT at everyone's residence and give everyone access to the same type of Wi-Fi connection and audio/video equipment, travel will resume for said events when all of this is over, and speaking with my friends I know my company is not the only one with this position.


All that says is that you all really need to commit to doing better job with that. Our company has had a regular conference, twice weekly, for as long as I can remember. Typically, there are between 30 - 70 participants. Often with new faces.

If you have someone running a meeting who knows what they are doing, this is not an issue. If that is somehow unavailable to your team, your leadership needs to look into getting new personnel. As there are no real technical issues present, this indicates that personnel are either unable or unwilling to learn new things. For most careers, that is a resume grave.

In any case, even if these non-existent issues were to somehow present themselves, none of that comes remotely close to what it would cost to fly, accommodate, and per diem all those bodies. Especially if that is a regular occurrence.

There will always be some need for travel, but this idea that investors will be happy to start funding the huge amount of fat they've been living without —for what will probably be a year— is thoroughly divorced from any reality, to the point of being fiduciary malfeasance going forward.

I am sorry of that sucks for you personally —though it should not under normal circumstances— but the idea of being able to Holiday half the working year away is a thing of the past now. You can quote me on this in the future, if you like.





Midwestindy wrote:
Agreed, I am getting kind of tired of the people arguing that this will lead to the collapse of business travel, as if most offices weren't already using video conferencing before the pandemic....

This is from an Oxford Economics report
Image
Image

"And an overwhelming majority of corporate executives (81%) believe a slow economy calls for more contact with clients, not less."
https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/Media/D ... Travel.pdf

People have been predicting the demise of corporate travel for decades.....



I will refer you to the case of Forrest v Trees.

First off, you need to look at where that income is disappearing to. You can say '28%' lost revenue all day, but if that revenue costs a travel desk and a stupid amount of air fare to maintain, and you are my competitor, congratulations. You just inherited a bunch of clients I do not want. And you will soon find out why as I am able to underbid you almost everywhere else.

And your retention of that pie slice will be expensive and short lived as well as most of that clientele finds themselves at a competitive disadvantage too. Travel is not free or even cheap. You will have to either absorb that of bill for it. If I am doing neither, and my identical widgets are 15 - 25% more afforable than yours, you have a problem.
This is not a static situation and with enough movement the "need" for handshakes an in-persons will quickly go the way of faxes and ink signatures. The more business that do without, the more that will do without.


It is worth noting —and I am not seeing people properly recognize this here, though plenty elsewhere— that there are some unique opportunities and hazards at work in this situation.

First, yes, people have been saying that for decades. But the extreme reliability of communications we now have has not been a factor for decades. Nor has its affordability.
The smarter companies are already capitalizing on this, to the extent possible. You will have a real hard shift if you suddenly find yourself unable or not willing to adapt to that in a year from now.

SurlyBonds wrote:

Exactly right. The current conditions are an impediment to creativity, to teamwork, to focus and clarity of thought, and to employee morale. The occasional "I need to work from home for a day or two" is not remotely the same as doing so permanently.


Things change. Sometimes with a shock, like this. Sometimes over a longer period. The fact is that a lot of business have been looking for ways to cut this for a while now. It is an excuse, but as a lot of companies are suddenly doing it, there is no real 'bad guy' to point at.

I mentioned this earlier, but there was a time when Ink Signatures were sacred. In many places, they still are. However, last week we were able to close a real estate purchase, involving multiple countries, no less, with no travel or in person signatures involved. A lot of excuses are falling away and most companies will take the approach of simply hiring a replacement team if there are issues with creativity, focus, etc, rather than spending huge sums of money to comfort employees. That is the general trend of things these days.

I certainly do not believe business travel will go away, but it will be boiled down quite a bit. If there is not an outstanding talent requirement, look for it to go the way of the fax.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sat May 09, 2020 2:19 pm

Wacker1000 wrote:
Advertising didn't get people booking flights after the last recession - cheap tickets did. The best ticket price and having a departure time customers want are 90% of the game.

If history is any indicator, the legacies will fall behind again due to cost structure and people will be flocking to Spirit and Allegiant.


Yes, but at the same time a packed plane full of low fare low fare passengers does not sound too appealing either. A half full plane with normal fares might be better for a while if it produces the same income.
Cornucopia
 
brilondon
Posts: 3157
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 1:10 pm

catiii wrote:
Max Q wrote:
I think people are so wary (rightfully) of travel right now that reaching out to them via advertising of any form, but especially TV is important


It may cost money but it’s important, it needs to be communicated what measures are being undertaken to keep passengers as safe as possible



With awareness, the beginning of a road back can begin


TV advertising isn’t effective, especially given the number of cord cutters.


TV is wasted money. Fewer people are watching network TV and are streaming their content. It is like advertising in newspapers or magazines. The economy will open up and the airlines will be back but I don't see them operating in the same fashion as before.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
brilondon
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 1:27 pm

evank516 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
sandyb123 wrote:
Businesses are also waking up to the savings that video conferencing / home working and getting rid of offices will bring.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the short term, yes, but I think in the long term most companies that did engage in travel will likely go back to doing so. Video conferencing is great for small groups, but once you go over 10 or so people, it usually involves at least 1/3 if not more of the meeting going like this:

-Grace are you there?
-Johnny, we are having trouble hearing you, are you there?
-Rick is your audio on?
-I think we just lost Noelle. Noelle are you still there?
-Jillian, you are really echo-y.
-Kevin, we can see you but we can't hear you.
-Mike, I am going to mute you for a second because Susan is trying to talk.
-Can you repeat that?
-Chris, is there a kid talking in the background?

I was supposed to fly out to San Francisco for a meeting today. Around 2 hours of the meeting basically went as above. It was probably the biggest waste of time, and both my boss (and her boss) largely agreed. So unless they are going to invest in IT at everyone's residence and give everyone access to the same type of Wi-Fi connection and audio/video equipment, travel will resume for said events when all of this is over, and speaking with my friends I know my company is not the only one with this position.


BINGO! No household has perfect internet connection, heck not even offices do. Business travel will be needed again. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, but at some point in the next 6-8 months it will be.


You are right. People will need to travel again. Airlines will have to be able to accommodate passengers and passengers will have to adjust to the requirements. Everyone will have to have a mask. If this is not the case then brace yourself for the second wave which will be more serious and longer lasting than the first wave.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 1:35 pm

curlowl wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Slowly but surely, around the world airline traffic will start coming back


That’s an incredibly optimistic statement.


Is

why is it optimistic? look at TSA numbers. they are up up up week over week!
 
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par13del
Posts: 10337
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 2:22 pm

So in our political world, if the airlines do start advertising, who will be the first to say they are trying to pressure governments to open their borders?
Folks are already saying that China should pay a price, what about the airlines who facilitated the quick spread of the virus? Thankfully, since most governments are now supporting their local airlines, the pot cannot say too much about the kettle.
 
PRFlyer
Posts: 144
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 4:45 pm

IATA posted this on their Facebook page. What do you think would be the effect of this posting? https://www.facebook.com/iata.org/photos/pcb.3129893460410104/3129890297077087/?type=3&theater
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 5:14 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
First off, you need to look at where that income is disappearing to. You can say '28%' lost revenue all day, but if that revenue costs a travel desk and a stupid amount of air fare to maintain, and you are my competitor, congratulations. You just inherited a bunch of clients I do not want. And you will soon find out why as I am able to underbid you almost everywhere else.

And your retention of that pie slice will be expensive and short lived as well as most of that clientele finds themselves at a competitive disadvantage too. Travel is not free or even cheap. You will have to either absorb that of bill for it. If I am doing neither, and my identical widgets are 15 - 25% more afforable than yours, you have a problem.
This is not a static situation and with enough movement the "need" for handshakes an in-persons will quickly go the way of faxes and ink signatures. The more business that do without, the more that will do without.


It is worth noting —and I am not seeing people properly recognize this here, though plenty elsewhere— that there are some unique opportunities and hazards at work in this situation.

First, yes, people have been saying that for decades. But the extreme reliability of communications we now have has not been a factor for decades. Nor has its affordability.
The smarter companies are already capitalizing on this, to the extent possible. You will have a real hard shift if you suddenly find yourself unable or not willing to adapt to that in a year from now.


Image
Image

In-person meetings are king
Image

You can capitalize on the reliability of communications AND still require a significant amount of travel, its not a one thing or the other type deal. I happen to work for one of these companies you are referring to, we are a F500 company & before this pandemic we had dozens of people who worked remotely in my department. I had dozens of Webex meetings a week with customers & counterparts in other parts of the country, and yet many in my department still needed to travel weekly/bi-weekly.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
curlowl
Posts: 18
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Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 6:48 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
curlowl wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Slowly but surely, around the world airline traffic will start coming back


That’s an incredibly optimistic statement.


Is

why is it optimistic? look at TSA numbers. they are up up up week over week!


Sounds like you haven't watched the news in a long time. Civil aviation worldwide is on life support for at least the next 18-24 months.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5957
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 7:14 pm

curlowl wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
curlowl wrote:

That’s an incredibly optimistic statement.


Is

why is it optimistic? look at TSA numbers. they are up up up week over week!


Sounds like you haven't watched the news in a long time. Civil aviation worldwide is on life support for at least the next 18-24 months.



“The news” cant even tell you what the weather will be like tomorrow without a percentage next to it.

No one, and I mean no one, on this planet can tell you what things will look like in the future beyond a guesstimate.

What I can tell you, in the United States, we are two months into coronville, and there has been a marked increase in pax over the last two weeks.

How do I know that?

One, anecdotal. I see the loads on my flights. My airline just instituted Positive Space commuting to get pilots to work because the limited flights we have are filling up.

Two, factual. The TSA numbers confirm what my eyes are seeing.

So there is reason for optimism.
 
curlowl
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:48 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 7:34 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
curlowl wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:

Is

why is it optimistic? look at TSA numbers. they are up up up week over week!


Sounds like you haven't watched the news in a long time. Civil aviation worldwide is on life support for at least the next 18-24 months.



“The news” cant even tell you what the weather will be like tomorrow without a percentage next to it.

No one, and I mean no one, on this planet can tell you what things will look like in the future beyond a guesstimate.

What I can tell you, in the United States, we are two months into coronville, and there has been a marked increase in pax over the last two weeks.

How do I know that?

One, anecdotal. I see the loads on my flights. My airline just instituted Positive Space commuting to get pilots to work because the limited flights we have are filling up.

Two, factual. The TSA numbers confirm what my eyes are seeing.

So there is reason for optimism.


South Korea and China raised concerns today over a 'second wave', and Germany just announced >1.1 infection rates. The United States doesn't have the testing capacity, social safety net, public adherence to social distancing nor the amounts of PPE that those countries have. You can repeat some TSA number that's obvious to be higher day by day and your anecdotal evidence, but the future looks very grim.

And finally, let's assume the best case: If someone came up with a COVID-19 vaccine today, it would take at least 10-12 months to distribute it.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 665
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 10:43 pm

Most companies no longer give a damn about the quality of the “meeting”, mine included. Corporate suits & bean counters have become addicted to the cost savings virtue provides. Just like the way in which airline management no longer gives a flying fig about the comfort of coach passengers.

Airlines will be much smaller and sadly airline crews will see a massacre in October if not before.
 
Aither
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:43 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sun May 10, 2020 11:17 pm

curlowl wrote:

South Korea and China raised concerns today over a 'second wave', and Germany just announced >1.1 infection rates. The United States doesn't have the testing capacity, social safety net, public adherence to social distancing nor the amounts of PPE that those countries have. You can repeat some TSA number that's obvious to be higher day by day and your anecdotal evidence, but the future looks very grim.

And finally, let's assume the best case: If someone came up with a COVID-19 vaccine today, it would take at least 10-12 months to distribute it.


It's more clusters than "second wave".
As we better understand who are the people the most at risks and what are the enormous consequences of failing economies if confinements come back we will be asked to live with the virus. I'm fine flying between 2 green zones that would allow air travel as long as good repatriation policies are put in place and I think today that's the kind of thing we need more than advertising. I want airlines/IATA to offer a covid insurance saying they will bring me back home in a medical charter if I get into trouble at destination. That's all I need to start travelling again.
Never trust the obvious
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5957
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 12:12 am

curlowl wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
curlowl wrote:

Sounds like you haven't watched the news in a long time. Civil aviation worldwide is on life support for at least the next 18-24 months.



“The news” cant even tell you what the weather will be like tomorrow without a percentage next to it.

No one, and I mean no one, on this planet can tell you what things will look like in the future beyond a guesstimate.

What I can tell you, in the United States, we are two months into coronville, and there has been a marked increase in pax over the last two weeks.

How do I know that?

One, anecdotal. I see the loads on my flights. My airline just instituted Positive Space commuting to get pilots to work because the limited flights we have are filling up.

Two, factual. The TSA numbers confirm what my eyes are seeing.

So there is reason for optimism.


South Korea and China raised concerns today over a 'second wave', and Germany just announced >1.1 infection rates. The United States doesn't have the testing capacity, social safety net, public adherence to social distancing nor the amounts of PPE that those countries have. You can repeat some TSA number that's obvious to be higher day by day and your anecdotal evidence, but the future looks very grim.

And finally, let's assume the best case: If someone came up with a COVID-19 vaccine today, it would take at least 10-12 months to distribute it.


I feel bad for the person locked in the basement with you.

I actually have the positive TSA numbers to back up my statement. Let’s see if that trend holds. I believe domestically it will
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 1:47 am

Some people on here seem almost excited at the idea of the industry collapsing.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
oldJoe
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 2:00 am

jfklganyc wrote:
curlowl wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


“The news” cant even tell you what the weather will be like tomorrow without a percentage next to it.

No one, and I mean no one, on this planet can tell you what things will look like in the future beyond a guesstimate.

What I can tell you, in the United States, we are two months into coronville, and there has been a marked increase in pax over the last two weeks.

How do I know that?

One, anecdotal. I see the loads on my flights. My airline just instituted Positive Space commuting to get pilots to work because the limited flights we have are filling up.

Two, factual. The TSA numbers confirm what my eyes are seeing.

So there is reason for optimism.


South Korea and China raised concerns today over a 'second wave', and Germany just announced >1.1 infection rates. The United States doesn't have the testing capacity, social safety net, public adherence to social distancing nor the amounts of PPE that those countries have. You can repeat some TSA number that's obvious to be higher day by day and your anecdotal evidence, but the future looks very grim.

And finally, let's assume the best case: If someone came up with a COVID-19 vaccine today, it would take at least 10-12 months to distribute it.


I feel bad for the person locked in the basement with you.

I actually have the positive TSA numbers to back up my statement. Let’s see if that trend holds. I believe domestically it will


What the positive TSA numbers tells you at all ? Domestically flying goes up and what else ?
I think you are not able to realize what is going up on this planet ?
If you only believe in the numbers you can see , can you see the numbers of viruses around you ? For sure you can`t `
At the end of the day the winner will be the virus and say thank you for flying as much as you can to spreading me around !
 
Akiestar
Posts: 970
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 6:51 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 2:02 am

If airlines are going to advertise in any capacity, I imagine it will highlight the airline's commitment to keep flying during and after the pandemic, while also encouraging people to stay home.

LATAM has done this with its Further, Together campaign, and it seems to be effective: the original Spanish version has nearly 840,000 views, while the Portuguese version has double that. Aerolíneas Argentinas has an even more successful video (sorry, video is in Spanish), with over five million views.

I'd argue that the U.S. airlines might want to take pitches from these, aside from just advertising how they've upped protective measures in light of the pandemic.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5280
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 4:00 am

oldJoe wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
curlowl wrote:

South Korea and China raised concerns today over a 'second wave', and Germany just announced >1.1 infection rates. The United States doesn't have the testing capacity, social safety net, public adherence to social distancing nor the amounts of PPE that those countries have. You can repeat some TSA number that's obvious to be higher day by day and your anecdotal evidence, but the future looks very grim.

And finally, let's assume the best case: If someone came up with a COVID-19 vaccine today, it would take at least 10-12 months to distribute it.


I feel bad for the person locked in the basement with you.

I actually have the positive TSA numbers to back up my statement. Let’s see if that trend holds. I believe domestically it will


What the positive TSA numbers tells you at all ? Domestically flying goes up and what else ?
I think you are not able to realize what is going up on this planet ?
If you only believe in the numbers you can see , can you see the numbers of viruses around you ? For sure you can`t `
At the end of the day the winner will be the virus and say thank you for flying as much as you can to spreading me around !


Nearly every carrier was reporting a sizable uptick in future bookings as of the earnings calls late last month, they have all likely seen additional growth since then.

AA is already up to nearly 15% of last years passengers as of Friday, compared 5-6% a few weeks ago
https://twitter.com/krisvancleave/statu ... 64512?s=20

Travel is returning, its just a matter of whether it will be slowed down by a second wave of the outbreak
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
curlowl
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:48 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 7:46 am

jfklganyc wrote:

I feel bad for the person locked in the basement with you.

I actually have the positive TSA numbers to back up my statement. Let’s see if that trend holds. I believe domestically it will


I feel bad for whoever has to validate facile and one-dimensional takes like that on a daily basis.

NWAESC wrote:
Some people on here seem almost excited at the idea of the industry collapsing.


The 2nd stage of the Kübler-Ross model everyone.
 
KFTG
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 8:04 am

NWAESC wrote:
Some people on here seem almost excited at the idea of the industry collapsing.

But at least I'll "feel safe"!
 
KFTG
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 8:05 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Travel is returning, its just a matter of whether it will be slowed down by a second wave of the outbreak

Or an upcoming onslaught of "fear porn" by the media aimed ad generating more ad revenue.
 
avek00
Posts: 3251
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 12:53 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
[...]
In any case, even if these non-existent issues were to somehow present themselves, none of that comes remotely close to what it would cost to fly, accommodate, and per diem all those bodies. Especially if that is a regular occurrence.

There will always be some need for travel, but this idea that investors will be happy to start funding the huge amount of fat they've been living without —for what will probably be a year— is thoroughly divorced from any reality, to the point of being fiduciary malfeasance going forward.

I am sorry of that sucks for you personally —though it should not under normal circumstances— but the idea of being able to Holiday half the working year away is a thing of the past now. You can quote me on this in the future, if you like.

[...]
And your retention of that pie slice will be expensive and short lived as well as most of that clientele finds themselves at a competitive disadvantage too. Travel is not free or even cheap. You will have to either absorb that of bill for it. If I am doing neither, and my identical widgets are 15 - 25% more afforable than yours, you have a problem.
This is not a static situation and with enough movement the "need" for handshakes an in-persons will quickly go the way of faxes and ink signatures. The more business that do without, the more that will do without.

[...]
The smarter companies are already capitalizing on this, to the extent possible. You will have a real hard shift if you suddenly find yourself unable or not willing to adapt to that in a year from now.

[...]
I mentioned this earlier, but there was a time when Ink Signatures were sacred. In many places, they still are. However, last week we were able to close a real estate purchase, involving multiple countries, no less, with no travel or in person signatures involved. A lot of excuses are falling away and most companies will take the approach of simply hiring a replacement team if there are issues with creativity, focus, etc, rather than spending huge sums of money to comfort employees. That is the general trend of things these days.

I certainly do not believe business travel will go away, but it will be boiled down quite a bit. If there is not an outstanding talent requirement, look for it to go the way of the fax.


You are 110% correct. This is not just a recessionary time for airlines, it is an evolutionary moment in commercial aviation. As someone who works for a tech company that has become a major competitor to airlines since February 2020, I can tell you formerly resistant executives, companies, and institutions have seen the light and made major SaaS and server purchases for a videoconferencing "New Normal". Sure, once it's safe to travel again there will be in-person travel for the big deal signings and the most important corporate activities. The hitherto routine consultant milk runs, staff meetings, etc., however, will largely fail the basic test of delivering tangible ROI for the travel dollars spent (vs. videoconferencing sunk costs). To the point about advertising, it will take some time for airlines to adapt their advertising strategies to address this unprecedented competition.
Live life to the fullest.
 
blockski
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 1:16 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
curlowl wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:

Is

why is it optimistic? look at TSA numbers. they are up up up week over week!


Sounds like you haven't watched the news in a long time. Civil aviation worldwide is on life support for at least the next 18-24 months.



“The news” cant even tell you what the weather will be like tomorrow without a percentage next to it.

No one, and I mean no one, on this planet can tell you what things will look like in the future beyond a guesstimate.

What I can tell you, in the United States, we are two months into coronville, and there has been a marked increase in pax over the last two weeks.

How do I know that?

One, anecdotal. I see the loads on my flights. My airline just instituted Positive Space commuting to get pilots to work because the limited flights we have are filling up.

Two, factual. The TSA numbers confirm what my eyes are seeing.

So there is reason for optimism.


I don't doubt that the numbers are rising.

I also don't see any reason for that to spark optimism.
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 1:31 pm

I don't think anyone really believes we're out of the woods yet, but I don't see anything wrong with a little cautious optimism.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
asdf
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:03 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 1:35 pm

acavpics wrote:
curlowl wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Slowly but surely, around the world airline traffic will start coming back


That’s an incredibly optimistic statement.


Are you really expecting it to stay like this forever?


not forever
but for a lot of months

and if they find no vaccination it will stay for years

in confined spaces such as trains, buses or airplanes, there is a likelihood of being infected. It is not known whether the HEPA filters really work for the CV19 virus.

Before airlines advertise again, they will want to wait and see how they can offer their transport services again in the future.
 
Exeiowa
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:49 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Mon May 11, 2020 2:24 pm

Okay number one no advertising where you remind people of the virus is going to help your brand.

See the tag line "You are never alone with a " a cigarette brand that was signle handedly destroyed by association with a negative emotional state.

People are suggestible, as a graduate student when I was a TA I joked that I didn't know what I was doing, end of year assessment said didn't know what they were doing. So then I would tell them I was the world's greatest TA, end of year assessment said world's greatest TA.

Secondly the world has changed, we can now do more than in the past remotely. In the adapting world we have serviced equipment that previously required a visit with overnighted parts, equipment remote access and a video link. Did it take longer than the service guy ? Yes but a lot less of his time than if he had to travel.

And we get into a discussion of relative vs absolute value. Is in person better? Yes but how much better? That gap is narrower than in the past, and also the distinction between better and good enough.

In technical buying of equipment it has never come down to the sales person but always the price and capability of the equipment being considered. If you have technical questions you often end up on the phone back to their base anyway for the guy you really need to talk too.

For someone at my level, my travel was already curtailed. For people at a higher levels I imagine their travel comfort level might be diminished making them less eager to travel if they can find alternatives.

Eventually we will all forget this and go back to how it was before, but that will be longer than in previous disruptions.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3157
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Tue May 12, 2020 12:46 pm

usa330300 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
agree with above, outside of social media and emails, no need to spend money on advertising. It would serve no purpose and bring in no real revenue.

Wholeheartedly disagree. They need to begin advertising through mainstream media channels, TV, Radio and Print.

Print is a black hole of advertising dollars. TV is very limited in its reach, especially with streaming services. Radio is only useful during drive times. Basically "mainstream media" is not going to give you the reach it once did.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
brilondon
Posts: 3157
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Tue May 12, 2020 12:57 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Most companies no longer give a damn about the quality of the “meeting”, mine included. Corporate suits & bean counters have become addicted to the cost savings virtue provides. Just like the way in which airline management no longer gives a flying fig about the comfort of coach passengers.

Airlines will be much smaller and sadly airline crews will see a massacre in October if not before.


Airline crews are already being delt heavy blows. There are thousands of airline staff that will never get their jobs back. Flying will be so different and expensive in the near term. Long term effects of this virus have yet to be realised and you will see negative trends for the next year at least.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
sgbroimp
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:35 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Tue May 12, 2020 2:58 pm

I used to be in the advertising business myself. Basic rule: Unless a company or airline has an overwhelming market share (50%+) a market building campaign makes no sense even in normal times. When a market has fallen apart for reasons of safely, illness, fear, etc. even a market building campaign shared by all the airlines would likely also be a waste (not that they would do that). And of course a airline's normal campaign activity to build market share makes no sense when there is almost no market. And, of course, they need to have a lot of money to do that, something there is a big shortage of at the moment. Gonna be a while, sadly. Tough on them and their agencies as well.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3157
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Tue May 12, 2020 3:44 pm

NWAESC wrote:
Some people on here seem almost excited at the idea of the industry collapsing.


I've been reading that myself. But then I remember why I stopped responding to people on here and just read trip reports that interest me. I saw your comment and thought that it's accurate.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24620
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Thu May 14, 2020 3:27 am

From United employee townhall last week

Q. Why isn’t United showcasing the aircraft cleaning efforts on TV commercials?
A. Its probably not the right time to launch costly national TV commercials as they would unlikely provide a return in any meaningful new passenger revenue. Instead United has been aggressively using cost free social media outlets to communicate the cleaning programs we have implemented.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ELBOB
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Thu May 14, 2020 7:28 am

acavpics wrote:

Are you really expecting it to stay like this forever?


Austerity is going to be the name of the game in most countries for the foreseeable future; all these state-level lockdown expenses and medical costs need to be recouped by governments. Increases in personal income tax, VAT, fuel duty... all those are going to steal money from peoples' "holiday fund".

Staycationing will be popular almost immediately, but medium-haul foreign travel will be very, very slow to return.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9645
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Thu May 14, 2020 9:38 am

avek00 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
[...]
In any case, even if these non-existent issues were to somehow present themselves, none of that comes remotely close to what it would cost to fly, accommodate, and per diem all those bodies. Especially if that is a regular occurrence.

There will always be some need for travel, but this idea that investors will be happy to start funding the huge amount of fat they've been living without —for what will probably be a year— is thoroughly divorced from any reality, to the point of being fiduciary malfeasance going forward.

I am sorry of that sucks for you personally —though it should not under normal circumstances— but the idea of being able to Holiday half the working year away is a thing of the past now. You can quote me on this in the future, if you like.

[...]
And your retention of that pie slice will be expensive and short lived as well as most of that clientele finds themselves at a competitive disadvantage too. Travel is not free or even cheap. You will have to either absorb that of bill for it. If I am doing neither, and my identical widgets are 15 - 25% more afforable than yours, you have a problem.
This is not a static situation and with enough movement the "need" for handshakes an in-persons will quickly go the way of faxes and ink signatures. The more business that do without, the more that will do without.

[...]
The smarter companies are already capitalizing on this, to the extent possible. You will have a real hard shift if you suddenly find yourself unable or not willing to adapt to that in a year from now.

[...]
I mentioned this earlier, but there was a time when Ink Signatures were sacred. In many places, they still are. However, last week we were able to close a real estate purchase, involving multiple countries, no less, with no travel or in person signatures involved. A lot of excuses are falling away and most companies will take the approach of simply hiring a replacement team if there are issues with creativity, focus, etc, rather than spending huge sums of money to comfort employees. That is the general trend of things these days.

I certainly do not believe business travel will go away, but it will be boiled down quite a bit. If there is not an outstanding talent requirement, look for it to go the way of the fax.


You are 110% correct. This is not just a recessionary time for airlines, it is an evolutionary moment in commercial aviation. As someone who works for a tech company that has become a major competitor to airlines since February 2020, I can tell you formerly resistant executives, companies, and institutions have seen the light and made major SaaS and server purchases for a videoconferencing "New Normal". Sure, once it's safe to travel again there will be in-person travel for the big deal signings and the most important corporate activities. The hitherto routine consultant milk runs, staff meetings, etc., however, will largely fail the basic test of delivering tangible ROI for the travel dollars spent (vs. videoconferencing sunk costs). To the point about advertising, it will take some time for airlines to adapt their advertising strategies to address this unprecedented competition.


All predictions I saw, show the same.

First to pick up again will be personal travel. (family / ethnic travel)
Then leisure travel will pick up.
Business travel is expected to stay low for a long time.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3157
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 15, 2020 7:40 pm

seahawk wrote:
avek00 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
[...]
In any case, even if these non-existent issues were to somehow present themselves, none of that comes remotely close to what it would cost to fly, accommodate, and per diem all those bodies. Especially if that is a regular occurrence.

There will always be some need for travel, but this idea that investors will be happy to start funding the huge amount of fat they've been living without —for what will probably be a year— is thoroughly divorced from any reality, to the point of being fiduciary malfeasance going forward.

I am sorry of that sucks for you personally —though it should not under normal circumstances— but the idea of being able to Holiday half the working year away is a thing of the past now. You can quote me on this in the future, if you like.

[...]
And your retention of that pie slice will be expensive and short lived as well as most of that clientele finds themselves at a competitive disadvantage too. Travel is not free or even cheap. You will have to either absorb that of bill for it. If I am doing neither, and my identical widgets are 15 - 25% more afforable than yours, you have a problem.
This is not a static situation and with enough movement the "need" for handshakes an in-persons will quickly go the way of faxes and ink signatures. The more business that do without, the more that will do without.

[...]
The smarter companies are already capitalizing on this, to the extent possible. You will have a real hard shift if you suddenly find yourself unable or not willing to adapt to that in a year from now.

[...]
I mentioned this earlier, but there was a time when Ink Signatures were sacred. In many places, they still are. However, last week we were able to close a real estate purchase, involving multiple countries, no less, with no travel or in person signatures involved. A lot of excuses are falling away and most companies will take the approach of simply hiring a replacement team if there are issues with creativity, focus, etc, rather than spending huge sums of money to comfort employees. That is the general trend of things these days.

I certainly do not believe business travel will go away, but it will be boiled down quite a bit. If there is not an outstanding talent requirement, look for it to go the way of the fax.


You are 110% correct. This is not just a recessionary time for airlines, it is an evolutionary moment in commercial aviation. As someone who works for a tech company that has become a major competitor to airlines since February 2020, I can tell you formerly resistant executives, companies, and institutions have seen the light and made major SaaS and server purchases for a videoconferencing "New Normal". Sure, once it's safe to travel again there will be in-person travel for the big deal signings and the most important corporate activities. The hitherto routine consultant milk runs, staff meetings, etc., however, will largely fail the basic test of delivering tangible ROI for the travel dollars spent (vs. videoconferencing sunk costs). To the point about advertising, it will take some time for airlines to adapt their advertising strategies to address this unprecedented competition.


All predictions I saw, show the same.

First to pick up again will be personal travel. (family / ethnic travel)
Then leisure travel will pick up.
Business travel is expected to stay low for a long time.


Business in general will be curtailed for at least 6 months to a year at least. The travel industry will be very different. People will be forced to operate differently. This will impact the way the travel requirements of businesses will be done. It will come back but it will be different.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart

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