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brilondon
Posts: 3154
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 11:25 am

USAirALB wrote:
sandyb123 wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:

Of course it will.

The question, of course, is when.

Businesses are also waking up to the savings that video conferencing / home working and getting rid of offices will bring.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the short term, yes, but I think in the long term most companies that did engage in travel will likely go back to doing so. Video conferencing is great for small groups, but once you go over 10 or so people, it usually involves at least 1/3 if not more of the meeting going like this:

-Grace are you there?
-Johnny, we are having trouble hearing you, are you there?
-Rick is your audio on?
-I think we just lost Noelle. Noelle are you still there?
-Jillian, you are really echo-y.
-Kevin, we can see you but we can't hear you.
-Mike, I am going to mute you for a second because Susan is trying to talk.
-Can you repeat that?
-Chris, is there a kid talking in the background?

I was supposed to fly out to San Francisco for a meeting today. Around 2 hours of the meeting basically went as above. It was probably the biggest waste of time, and both my boss (and her boss) largely agreed. So unless they are going to invest in IT at everyone's residence and give everyone access to the same type of Wi-Fi connection and audio/video equipment, travel will resume for said events when all of this is over, and speaking with my friends I know my company is not the only one with this position.


Then you need better management who can moderate better. This type of meeting will be the normal way of doing business. It was already beginning to work that way before the pandemic. Now it just has been accelerated for business to work remotely. Alot of business is already conducted by phone and teleconferencing. Now it will have to be the norm.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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janders
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Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 5:25 pm

AA VP Customer Experience John Gustafson says the airline has paused all marketing efforts. Any messaging will instead be one-on-one (such as emails) to customers with focus on safety,
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
foxalphazulu
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:07 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 5:55 pm

brilondon wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
sandyb123 wrote:
Businesses are also waking up to the savings that video conferencing / home working and getting rid of offices will bring.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the short term, yes, but I think in the long term most companies that did engage in travel will likely go back to doing so. Video conferencing is great for small groups, but once you go over 10 or so people, it usually involves at least 1/3 if not more of the meeting going like this:

-Grace are you there?
-Johnny, we are having trouble hearing you, are you there?
-Rick is your audio on?
-I think we just lost Noelle. Noelle are you still there?
-Jillian, you are really echo-y.
-Kevin, we can see you but we can't hear you.
-Mike, I am going to mute you for a second because Susan is trying to talk.
-Can you repeat that?
-Chris, is there a kid talking in the background?

I was supposed to fly out to San Francisco for a meeting today. Around 2 hours of the meeting basically went as above. It was probably the biggest waste of time, and both my boss (and her boss) largely agreed. So unless they are going to invest in IT at everyone's residence and give everyone access to the same type of Wi-Fi connection and audio/video equipment, travel will resume for said events when all of this is over, and speaking with my friends I know my company is not the only one with this position.


Then you need better management who can moderate better. This type of meeting will be the normal way of doing business. It was already beginning to work that way before the pandemic. Now it just has been accelerated for business to work remotely. Alot of business is already conducted by phone and teleconferencing. Now it will have to be the norm.


New norm in the short term? Maybe.

Video conferencing is great, until it isn't. Granted more people are now using it, but nothing replaces personal meetings and that is not about to just disappear. The more we use web-based meeting tools, its pros and cons are becoming clearer. While you could hold a seminar on the web, group discussions to collaborate aren't so simple.

Corporate travel will be back albeit the last one to do so.

edited for grammar
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 19998
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 6:06 pm

foxalphazulu wrote:
brilondon wrote:
USAirALB wrote:

I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the short term, yes, but I think in the long term most companies that did engage in travel will likely go back to doing so. Video conferencing is great for small groups, but once you go over 10 or so people, it usually involves at least 1/3 if not more of the meeting going like this:

-Grace are you there?
-Johnny, we are having trouble hearing you, are you there?
-Rick is your audio on?
-I think we just lost Noelle. Noelle are you still there?
-Jillian, you are really echo-y.
-Kevin, we can see you but we can't hear you.
-Mike, I am going to mute you for a second because Susan is trying to talk.
-Can you repeat that?
-Chris, is there a kid talking in the background?

I was supposed to fly out to San Francisco for a meeting today. Around 2 hours of the meeting basically went as above. It was probably the biggest waste of time, and both my boss (and her boss) largely agreed. So unless they are going to invest in IT at everyone's residence and give everyone access to the same type of Wi-Fi connection and audio/video equipment, travel will resume for said events when all of this is over, and speaking with my friends I know my company is not the only one with this position.


Then you need better management who can moderate better. This type of meeting will be the normal way of doing business. It was already beginning to work that way before the pandemic. Now it just has been accelerated for business to work remotely. Alot of business is already conducted by phone and teleconferencing. Now it will have to be the norm.


New norm in the short term? Maybe.

Video conferencing is great, until it isn't. Granted more people are now using it, but nothing replaces personal meetings and that is not about to just disappear. The more we use web-based meeting tools, its pros and cons are becoming clearer. While you could hold a seminar on the web, group discussions to collaborate aren't so simple.

Corporate travel will be back albeit the last one to do so.

edited for grammar

My employer has suffered an unsustainable hit to productivity with telework. About 20% to 30% of the work will telework including skipping air travel for that fraction of employees. The rest had better go back to business as usual.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2301
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 6:28 pm

brilondon wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
sandyb123 wrote:
Businesses are also waking up to the savings that video conferencing / home working and getting rid of offices will bring.


I wouldn't be so sure about that. In the short term, yes, but I think in the long term most companies that did engage in travel will likely go back to doing so. Video conferencing is great for small groups, but once you go over 10 or so people, it usually involves at least 1/3 if not more of the meeting going like this:

-Grace are you there?
-Johnny, we are having trouble hearing you, are you there?
-Rick is your audio on?
-I think we just lost Noelle. Noelle are you still there?
-Jillian, you are really echo-y.
-Kevin, we can see you but we can't hear you.
-Mike, I am going to mute you for a second because Susan is trying to talk.
-Can you repeat that?
-Chris, is there a kid talking in the background?

I was supposed to fly out to San Francisco for a meeting today. Around 2 hours of the meeting basically went as above. It was probably the biggest waste of time, and both my boss (and her boss) largely agreed. So unless they are going to invest in IT at everyone's residence and give everyone access to the same type of Wi-Fi connection and audio/video equipment, travel will resume for said events when all of this is over, and speaking with my friends I know my company is not the only one with this position.


Then you need better management who can moderate better. This type of meeting will be the normal way of doing business. It was already beginning to work that way before the pandemic. Now it just has been accelerated for business to work remotely. Alot of business is already conducted by phone and teleconferencing. Now it will have to be the norm.

Um, not really. Maybe for your industry/firm but not mine. Collaborative meetings with 20+ people cannot be held successfully over digital means. No amount of "moderating" as you said can help insure that everyone's Wi-Fi system is secure and equal across the board, unless your management is going to go into everyone's house and install the same exact type of Wi-Fi service for everyone in your company.

We have been told that we will be able to resume most travel come 29 June. Those who do not feel comfortable traveling will not be forced to travel, however I haven't come across anyone that has told me they do not plan on traveling. I already have several trips scheduled throughout July and August. We will begin working onsite come 15 June in my city, and again, those who are fearful for working out of an office will be able to work from home. I for one cannot wait to go back to the office.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4957
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 6:29 pm

lightsaber wrote:
foxalphazulu wrote:
brilondon wrote:

Then you need better management who can moderate better. This type of meeting will be the normal way of doing business. It was already beginning to work that way before the pandemic. Now it just has been accelerated for business to work remotely. Alot of business is already conducted by phone and teleconferencing. Now it will have to be the norm.


New norm in the short term? Maybe.

Video conferencing is great, until it isn't. Granted more people are now using it, but nothing replaces personal meetings and that is not about to just disappear. The more we use web-based meeting tools, its pros and cons are becoming clearer. While you could hold a seminar on the web, group discussions to collaborate aren't so simple.

Corporate travel will be back albeit the last one to do so.

edited for grammar

My employer has suffered an unsustainable hit to productivity with telework. About 20% to 30% of the work will telework including skipping air travel for that fraction of employees. The rest had better go back to business as usual.

Lightsaber

I think someone made a good point. New businesses are going to just go out and drum up the customers of businesses that are trying to make a zoom sales pitch.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8048
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 6:41 pm

Yep exactly. With the large scale video conferencing and work from home grand experience we've had for the past 8-10 weeks we are clearly learning its strengths and weaknesses.

Great for one-on-ones, small group team meetings, status updates with few presenters or limited overlap
Poor for large meetings, lengthy meetings, collaboration, any sort of interactive or physical demos, ability to whiteboard, etc.

By and large, when someone is looking to close a multi-million dollar deal for goods or services the nominal cost of a few thousand dollars to enable an on-person meeting is not going away.
 
Exeiowa
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:49 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 7:40 pm

To be fair large meetings in groups are not that great for many of those things either there value is often in the mixing of people outside the formal part of the meeting. I have sat through so many in person meeting where the same could have been accomplished in 3 paragraph email. Decision based meetings always result in the same old people getting their way circumventing any collaboration or group innovation, and anyway nothing ever really changes after them. the people missing them are probably the one who have suddenly discovered they cannot hold center stage in an environment where they are easily muted.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4957
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 8:25 pm

Exeiowa wrote:
To be fair large meetings in groups are not that great for many of those things either there value is often in the mixing of people outside the formal part of the meeting. I have sat through so many in person meeting where the same could have been accomplished in 3 paragraph email. Decision based meetings always result in the same old people getting their way circumventing any collaboration or group innovation, and anyway nothing ever really changes after them. the people missing them are probably the one who have suddenly discovered they cannot hold center stage in an environment where they are easily muted.

That value is huge tho. When you get 2 blokes in a golf cart or some lady CEO having an affair at the conference bar business deals get made
 
brilondon
Posts: 3154
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Wed May 20, 2020 9:26 pm

edited for grammar[/quote]
My employer has suffered an unsustainable hit to productivity with telework. About 20% to 30% of the work will telework including skipping air travel for that fraction of employees. The rest had better go back to business as usual.

Lightsaber[/quote]
Your employer had better find a way to make it work. Otherwise you may find that not being able to do your work efficiently in the post covid era, if that happens, you maybe out of business.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3619
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 22, 2020 3:47 am

mercure1 wrote:
Advertising today would be a huge financial black hole when the world is on lockdown, most airlines are virtually shutdown and more folks than during the depression have been left jobless.
Unless you are so disconnected from reality, I don't see anyone really thinking about buying airline tickets and taking that family vacation.



Yes more people are jobless in total number. But compare the populations then and now and do some math. The percentages might surprise you.

122,775,046 in 1930. 24.9% unemployment

328.200,000 in 2019. 14.7% unemployment
 
brilondon
Posts: 3154
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 22, 2020 6:07 pm

rbavfan wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Advertising today would be a huge financial black hole when the world is on lockdown, most airlines are virtually shutdown and more folks than during the depression have been left jobless.
Unless you are so disconnected from reality, I don't see anyone really thinking about buying airline tickets and taking that family vacation.



Yes more people are jobless in total number. But compare the populations then and now and do some math. The percentages might surprise you.

122,775,046 in 1930. 24.9% unemployment

328.200,000 in 2019. 14.7% unemployment


That could be stated for any demographic. Plus you're really comparing apples to oranges. Different eras.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 22, 2020 10:06 pm

GZM1 wrote:
Ah, those airline ads that graced the pages of Time and Newsweek in the seventies and eighties..... a joy to look at! Will they ever be back? Of course I have a collection. Those were the days!


I hear you on that! Used to have a collection of Delta, Pan Am and American. I guess the internet stole the glory away.
 
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lightsaber
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Posts: 19998
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Fri May 22, 2020 11:11 pm

brilondon wrote:
edited for grammar
Lightsaber wrote:
My employer has suffered an unsustainable hit to productivity with telework. About 20% to 30% of the work will telework including skipping air travel for that fraction of employees. The rest had better go back to business as usual.

Lightsaber


Your employer had better find a way to make it work. Otherwise you may find that not being able to do your work efficiently in the post covid era, if that happens, you maybe out of business.
[/quote

Your employer had better find a way to make it work. Otherwise you may find that not being able to do your work efficiently in the post covid era, if that happens, you maybe out of business.

I see no reason we are less efficient than most. I believe most work is suffering huge inefficiency penalties.

We'll telework some. About a 20% to 30% reduction in travel. About the same in daily commute.

But there is reason to believe Covid19 went through work early this year. We had huge fractions of the workforce out with what is now identified as Covid19 symptoms. The hospitalization rate for healthy people is low and we have an open campus that requires us to walk miles every day in the sunlight (ok, you can walk indoors, but why in SoCal?). We all want to get tested.

Efficiency is relative. Engineering requires lots of small meetings. We're doing a telcon with our customer right now and it is taking hours more than an in room meeting.

We've benchmarked our progress. We have not furloughed. We increased our backlog. But we were not setup for 6 foot+ spacing.

Some of my employees has been incredibly efficient teleworking. If this continues, 40% will get furloughed as they aren't productive enough without the pace of meetings.

We've allowed telework since the late 1990s. Everyone was equiped for telework 5 years ago to reduce the Los Angeles commute fatigue.

How much has your employer productivity dropped? I can state within a 2 percent uncertainty. If you do not have the numbers, you will be surprised at how bad it is. Management cannot make decisions without information. Aerospace has earned value accounting which let's us quickly see changes. We address problems fast.

Seriously, we can estimate what happened to corporate profit pretty well. Which is why I can say the productivity hit is unsustainable.

But we are better off than:
medicine, Hollywood (TV, movies, advertising, Youtube production), live entertainment, automotive manufacturing, restaurants, retail, certainly airlines, education (it us a good thing the school year end next week, the kids are disengaging), food processing, real estate, construction, lumber, government (not productive, but paid),

The only business I know we trail is Amazon and supermarkets.

The handwaving away the economic catastrophe will stop soon. I personally believe the economic destruction will kill far more than the disease.

I'm not buying a car until January to let the lack of buyers sink in and I know what a huge fraction of US jobs disapear when Detroit stops spending. I laugh at current real estate prices, we'll see a correction.

What industry hasn't suffered a productivity hit? Few people are productive teleworking. If someone haven't had to manage a budget or make payroll, they cannot possibly understand what is coming.

This is why airlines advertising would be throwing money away. When the news is positive, then advertise.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
DFW17L
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: Time for the airlines to restart advertising

Sat May 23, 2020 1:22 am

If they do resume advertising, please avoid depressing music, and please, please, please, don’t start the narration with, “During these trying times..”.

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