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kalvado
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 12:51 pm

Sokes wrote:
kalvado wrote:
So what is the message? That a 30% shareholder gets a bigger say in business operations, even outside of annual events, via their director on the board? Sure. That a 0.0001% ownership gives 0.0001% rights? Sure. So what?
An owner of 0.0001% will gladly collect their part of income - so let them eat their fraction of loss when company goes belly up.

Nordex paid Acciona money and shares for a division whose business was totally collapsed. Why would Nordex want to do that? Why would Susanne Klatten want to do that?
Susanne Klatten wants to do that because Acciona was willing to use the money from the sale to buy Susanne Klatten's shares. Acciona wants to do it, because Nordex was still valuable and they ended up with a shareholding that enables them to control Nordex.
Susanne Klatten could have said no to the deal, Acciona could have said no to the deal, but other Nordex shareholders were not even asked.
So who profits here? At whose cost?
You got the last word.

I thought were talking about Boeing and 737max situation... Did I miss something?
 
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par13del
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 1:13 pm

Revelation wrote:
All this sounds like there will be new behaviors to be learned, plus we read the pilots weren't doing tremendously well following the old checklists, so it was felt more training will be needed. Even Boeing's CEO is saying sim training will be needed.

Which they previously said was not needed, so when he now says it is needed, is he responding to the regulators or did he suddenly have some great opening of his eyes?
Not sure the Boeing folks endorsement of any additional training is any great comfort, maybe we should just take it on the faith of the regulators - FAA et. al - doing their job and making sure the OEM's are in compliance with the rules / regs and responding to suggestions of additional safety.

If the safety bug is / was so great despite the fact that the 777X was just going in to flight testing, there should have been a greater push for this new cockpit human / machine interface, so we are left to speculate that the next new clean sheet will have this new interface which so far no one can define what it is but they can recognize it when they see it.
 
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SamYeager2016
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 4:57 pm

par13del wrote:
Revelation wrote:
All this sounds like there will be new behaviors to be learned, plus we read the pilots weren't doing tremendously well following the old checklists, so it was felt more training will be needed. Even Boeing's CEO is saying sim training will be needed.

Which they previously said was not needed, so when he now says it is needed, is he responding to the regulators or did he suddenly have some great opening of his eyes?

We're talking about two different CEOs. The former, who said not needed, got the boot. The latter wasn't going to lose face and just wants things sorted changed the official tune.
 
jetmechanicdave
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Fri May 22, 2020 6:48 pm

Please keep the discussion on topic or you may find your post to be removed....Thanks for understanding.
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keesje
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 4:20 pm

I think this weeks FAA report on 737MAX certification as discussed by Gates, could raise some red flags in Europe, Canada, China, Japan, Australia and within the FAA.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... /#comments

The JATR group is far more independent and authoritative expert group to review 737 MAX certification.
https://centreforaviation.com/news/us-f ... 019-897212.

The Elaine Chao assigned committee (ex US military, NASA, US government paid people) report seems made to address an election campaign full of flag waving supporters.

commercial aviation in the United States is a model of safety, efficiency, and innovation across the world.The statistics on passenger aviation are impressive

the United States to lead the world in aviation safety

The Committee applauds the remarkable gains in safety achieved by U.S. aviation

reforms must be adopted to help our extremely safe aviation system become even better at identifying and mitigating risk

the Committee seeks to make our safe aviation system even safer—to mitigate risk and bolster safety worldwide


Source: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... report.pdf

It's a bit awkward to read such a report in relation to a crash investigation, 350 deads caused by failing certification process. It's rather a Defend our National industry piece.
Not a very smart approach if you have to convince the Chinese and Europeans to allow your aircraft while you are repairing your weakened aircraft certification process.

The move the FAA statements makes, away from taking responsibility and making changes, telling all is ok, might further hurt Boeing / FAA credibility in aircraft certification.
It could delay ongoing programs like 737MAX and 777-9. The FAA should confirm the independent JATR recommendations are leading, not a supportive counter report by non independent consultants. This is not a national topic. JATR report: https://www.faa.gov/news/media/attachme ... t_2019.pdf
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morrisond
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 3:30 pm

Michael O'Leary is speaking on Bloomberg.

He says Boeing has been keeping him up to date.

He expects Joint FAA/EASA test flights in July.

RTS in North America Sep/Oct

Ryanair to receive first deliveries by Christmas.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding News and Reference Thread 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 4:17 pm

Finally someone spilled the beans on what's taking place behind the scenes

morrisond wrote:
Michael O'Leary is speaking on Bloomberg.

He says Boeing has been keeping him up to date.

He expects Joint FAA/EASA test flights in July.

RTS in North America Sep/Oct

Ryanair to receive first deliveries by Christmas.
 
oschkosch
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 5:42 pm

I wonder how much extra discount he got for saying that ;)
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par13del
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 6:00 pm

oschkosch wrote:
I wonder how much extra discount he got for saying that ;)

So people actually listen to him?
 
Wallsendmag
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 6:41 pm

morrisond wrote:
Michael O'Leary is speaking on Bloomberg.

He says Boeing has been keeping him up to date.

He expects Joint FAA/EASA test flights in July.

RTS in North America Sep/Oct

Ryanair to receive first deliveries by Christmas.

Did he say which year?


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Vicenza
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 6:53 pm

morrisond wrote:
Michael O'Leary is speaking on Bloomberg.

He says Boeing has been keeping him up to date.

He expects Joint FAA/EASA test flights in July.

RTS in North America Sep/Oct

Ryanair to receive first deliveries by Christmas.


Yet, interestingly, on this forum most of everything said my Michael O'Leary is ridiculed as doesn't know what he's talking about.......so why is what he says regarding this suddenly relevant?
 
m007j
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 8:11 pm

morrisond wrote:
Michael O'Leary is speaking on Bloomberg.

He says Boeing has been keeping him up to date.

He expects Joint FAA/EASA test flights in July.

RTS in North America Sep/Oct

Ryanair to receive first deliveries by Christmas.


This falls in line with what I heard today- a major US operator (one with a LOT of 737-qualified pilots) is beginning MAX sim training again in 3Q2020, and airplanes will be begun to be accepted again around that time.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 11:25 pm

I think it makes sense for US airlines to fly for a few months before the rest of the world. Good politics and messaging.
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 10:39 pm

Boeing has resumed Low Rate production of the 737 MAX as of today.

Based on talks with suppliers, production plans are:

    Rate 21 for May and June (I am guessing using stocked resources)
    Rate 14 from July to December (more indicative of what suppliers can provide)
    Rate 21 starting in January 2021
    Rate 28 starting in June 2021
    Rate 35 by the end of 2021
    Rate 42 by the end of June 2022
    Rate 47 by the end of 2022
    Rate 52 by the end of 2023

Of course, actual results will depend on how demand is.
 
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par13del
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 11:04 pm

So they are actually restarting production at the end of May or is this another initiative to put pressure on the FAA to complete the re-certification of the MAX, or on the government to pay something to Boeing to rehire and put to work a few thousand workers who are getting benefits to sit at home?

Waiting for the FAA chief to call a press conference in 3......2......1.....
 
sgrow787
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 10:39 pm

My take on the recent May 9 news re: FAA preserves Boeing's role in certification:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... wn-planes/

In a statement, the FAA said those recommendations confirmed that its existing safety protocols are “sound,” though there are “areas where we have opportunities to improve.”


Interesting they never want to allude to something being broken that needs fixing. Otherwise they would have to admit there’s a problem, and that someone’s to blame. No accountability.

Drawing on the lessons taken from the MAX crashes, the agency said, it will give more scrutiny to potential pilot errors associated with the increased automation of airliner flight controls. 


Back to pilot errors and fictional workload. If you don’t tell pilots about a new system, how can you blame it on workload? Geez.

In January, both DeFazio and Cantwell, as well as family members of those who died in the accidents, had criticized the advisory committee’s recommendations, saying it was defending the FAA’s current system of aircraft certification while playing down shortcomings that missed the flaws in the MAX flight control system that led to the two crashes.


I would’ve added “and propagated flaws”, since Boeing took deliberate action to conceal design flaws, overlook them, and push a program forward despite them.

In Tuesday’s response, the FAA welcomed this “endorsement of delegation as an effective and efficient method to enhance safety.”


What about “ensuring” safety? Isn’t that the responsibility here? What do they mean by “efficient”? Are they accepting Boeing’s answer that it wasn’t efficient for them to put more money into the plane in terms of a redesign of the FCCs (with more modern and robust chips and architecture) because their customers weren’t willing to pay for that (because Boeing promised them a certain level of capability compared to the competitor Airbus)? What happened to a company being held accountable to how they behave in the commercial market? Lying to the customer with promises you know you can’t keep should be way up on the list there.

Boeing engineers working to certify the MAX on behalf of the FAA faced “undue pressure” from their managers to limit safety analysis and testing so the company could meet its schedule and keep down costs.

And
In response, the FAA said Tuesday it will work to educate Boeing managers about the need to avoid exerting “undue pressure” on engineers  overseeing the certification work.


That’s incredible. They want us to believe that their engineers were under so much pressure, that they either didn’t see the single point of failure to begin with, or they saw it but didn’t want anyone to know about it for fear of retribution. I’m curious what action they consider these “Boeing managers” partook of that forced undue pressure on engineers workload. There’s a big difference in that kind of pressure and what’s more likely to have occurred in the Max case - program compartmentalization created by upper management so that issues could me mitigated on a compressed schedule with little blowback from critical engineering input.

(The recommendations refer only generally to any airplane manufacturer applying to certify any new plane. However, the report explicitly discusses the MAX crashes, so it’s very clear Boeing and its certification processes are the main subject of the report.)


This is not the issue. Designing airplanes is not efficient if you prioritize catching problems during the later certification phase. Engineering folks know this. Not pilots. Not congressmen. You have an efficient design process when you catch problems early in that process, long before the certification phase - (a) It’s cheaper to fix. (b) there’s a tremendous amount of pressure you put on the FAA people to look the other way near the end of the process, when deadlines loom.

In a statement, Boeing said “we are reviewing these actions closely and remain committed to working with government and industry stakeholders to enhance safety and the certification process.”


Wait. When were they committed to begin with? When they concealed critical information from regulators, customers and pilots? Amazing! I guess the only hope now for those of us in the industry is we either have another crash, or we don’t buy the Max, thereby forcing Boeing to scrap it and do things right with a clean sheet design. And of course it wouldn’t hurt to see the top management being prosecuted and seeing jail time.
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Aviator34ID
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 11:40 am

Feel better now?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 7:39 pm

Aviator34ID wrote:
Feel better now?

Personally, I value the opinion but I feel I could use a TL;DR summation, minus the outrage.
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KarlB737
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Sun May 31, 2020 11:53 pm

Doesn't it strike you as odd that 737MAX production is to be restarted to a limited degree and yet there is no report on any software correction. What am I missing?
 
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par13del
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:52 am

There have been a number of software corrections, they just got lost in all the other disclaimer rhetoric required for proper response. The fix for MCAS was delivered and tested in June-2019, what we all remember about that was the FAA chose to do their bit flip at that time, so the MCAS software fix was lost. The mandated change of the computers from alternate to simultaneous was an outcome of the bit flip and delivered late Nov or Dec-2019, however, since the computers were slow and they found some other errors those were also lost in the shuffle of the wire bundles, nacelle, Covid, etc etc etc.
However, the ultimate is that since the FAA has not yet re-certified the MAX, nothing has been done, so we continue to wait.
 
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:28 pm

par13del wrote:
since the FAA has not yet re-certified the MAX, nothing has been done, so we continue to wait.


And yet the production line has been restarted.

Courtesy: Airways

Boeing Resumes 737MAX Production

https://airwaysmag.com/manufacturer/boeing-resumes-737max-production/
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:00 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
par13del wrote:
since the FAA has not yet re-certified the MAX, nothing has been done, so we continue to wait.


And yet the production line has been restarted.

Courtesy: Airways

Boeing Resumes 737MAX Production

https://airwaysmag.com/manufacturer/boeing-resumes-737max-production/

There’s nothing stopping Boeing from building all they want. Their customers just can’t use them.
 
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enzo011
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:06 am

This was posted in the general thread on the groundings,

TUI and Boeing reach a comprehensive agreement to resolve 737 MAX grounding impacts

TUI and Boeing have agreed on a comprehensive package of measures to offset the consequences of the grounding of the 737 MAX. While the details of the agreement are confidential, it provides compensation which covers a significant portion of the financial impact, as well as credits for future aircraft orders. The compensation will be realised over the next two years. In addition, both parties have agreed to a revised delivery schedule for the 61 737 MAX aircraft on order, meaning that TUI will get fewer 737 MAX deliveries from Boeing than previously planned in the next several years. The associated payment schedules have been adapted accordingly.


So they received compensation for most of the damage suffered and future credits. That will harm not just the program finances but other programs as well.
 
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par13del
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:35 am

KarlB737 wrote:
par13del wrote:
since the FAA has not yet re-certified the MAX, nothing has been done, so we continue to wait.


And yet the production line has been restarted.

Courtesy: Airways

Boeing Resumes 737MAX Production

https://airwaysmag.com/manufacturer/boeing-resumes-737max-production/

Yes and it will be interesting to see if the head of the FAA has his inspectors check to see if any of the changes Boeing has so far submitted but the FAA has not officially approved are included in the production, imagine the additional delays on frames that had unapproved repairs. Similar to what is taking place with WN and the used a/c they purchased.
 
TaromA380
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:09 pm

Boeing restarting Max production without positive feedback from major international regulators regarding the modifications package? Maybe they know more than they are willing to tell.
 
SWADawg
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:43 pm

FAA Flight Testing still scheduled to happen in July. Expect RTS in August. WN planning to bring MAX back by Q4.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
oschkosch
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:45 pm

enzo011 wrote:
This was posted in the general thread on the groundings,

TUI and Boeing reach a comprehensive agreement to resolve 737 MAX grounding impacts

TUI and Boeing have agreed on a comprehensive package of measures to offset the consequences of the grounding of the 737 MAX. While the details of the agreement are confidential, it provides compensation which covers a significant portion of the financial impact, as well as credits for future aircraft orders. The compensation will be realised over the next two years. In addition, both parties have agreed to a revised delivery schedule for the 61 737 MAX aircraft on order, meaning that TUI will get fewer 737 MAX deliveries from Boeing than previously planned in the next several years. The associated payment schedules have been adapted accordingly.


So they received compensation for most of the damage suffered and future credits. That will harm not just the program finances but other programs as well.
According to German language media, TUI claims ca. 500 Million US$ in max related damages and Boeing is paying a large part of that over the next 2 years, plus additional credits on future purchases etc.

That is basically what is written here:

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/einigung- ... re-spaeter

Insgesamt wird ihn der Ausfall des neuen Flugzeugmodells also mehr als eine halbe Milliarde Euro kosten.
Einen großen Teil des Betrages bekommt Tui allerdings zurück. Man habe mit Boeing eine Kompensation vereinbart, «die einen erheblichen Teil des Schadens abdeckt», teilte der Konzern am Mittwoch (3. Juni) mit. Das Geld werde schrittweise über die kommenden zwei Jahre ausbezahlt. Zudem erhalte man Guthaben für künftige Flugzeugbestellungen


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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:34 pm

oschkosch wrote:
enzo011 wrote:
TUI and Boeing have agreed on a comprehensive package of measures to offset the consequences of the grounding of the 737 MAX. While the details of the agreement are confidential, it provides compensation which covers a significant portion of the financial impact, as well as credits for future aircraft orders. The compensation will be realised over the next two years. In addition, both parties have agreed to a revised delivery schedule for the 61 737 MAX aircraft on order, meaning that TUI will get fewer 737 MAX deliveries from Boeing than previously planned in the next several years. The associated payment schedules have been adapted accordingly.

So they received compensation for most of the damage suffered and future credits. That will harm not just the program finances but other programs as well.
According to German language media, TUI claims ca. 500 Million US$ in max related damages and Boeing is paying a large part of that over the next 2 years, plus additional credits on future purchases etc.

The impairment is a given. What to me is more interesting is deferments rather than cancellations, and agreement to accept some future discounts rather than all cash, which will keep them likely to stay a MAX customer going forward.
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par13del
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:07 pm

Revelation wrote:
The impairment is a given. What to me is more interesting is deferments rather than cancellations, and agreement to accept some future discounts rather than all cash, which will keep them likely to stay a MAX customer going forward.

Which is Boeing's preferred option, however, I expect our resident accounting experts to weigh in shortly to confirm that the penalty for cancellation was till more than the damage and compensation amounts being received.
 
smartplane
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:28 pm

par13del wrote:
Revelation wrote:
The impairment is a given. What to me is more interesting is deferments rather than cancellations, and agreement to accept some future discounts rather than all cash, which will keep them likely to stay a MAX customer going forward.

Which is Boeing's preferred option, however, I expect our resident accounting experts to weigh in shortly to confirm that the penalty for cancellation was till more than the damage and compensation amounts being received.

Penalty cancellation costs are not the driver. Boeing offer MAX RTS retrospective credits, on top of usual credits negotiated at time of order, which attach to undelivered AND delivered aircraft. Additional credits adjust up each quarter RTS is delayed, start to erode from a prescribed period after RTS, and can be transferred to other models (at a discount). Customer must agree to retire or waive any legal action for compensation.

An elegant solution - further RTS delays won't trigger a new contract, discourages legal action, firms orders, reduces the likelihood of deferrals, increases top-up orders, contingent for reporting purposes, and encourages volume production / economies of scale for Boeing, GE and Spirit sooner.
 
StTim
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:45 pm

smartplane wrote:
par13del wrote:
Revelation wrote:
The impairment is a given. What to me is more interesting is deferments rather than cancellations, and agreement to accept some future discounts rather than all cash, which will keep them likely to stay a MAX customer going forward.

Which is Boeing's preferred option, however, I expect our resident accounting experts to weigh in shortly to confirm that the penalty for cancellation was till more than the damage and compensation amounts being received.

Penalty cancellation costs are not the driver. Boeing offer MAX RTS retrospective credits, on top of usual credits negotiated at time of order, which attach to undelivered AND delivered aircraft. Additional credits adjust up each quarter RTS is delayed, start to erode from a prescribed period after RTS, and can be transferred to other models (at a discount). Customer must agree to retire or waive any legal action for compensation.

An elegant solution - further RTS delays won't trigger a new contract, discourages legal action, firms orders, reduces the likelihood of deferrals, increases top-up orders, contingent for reporting purposes, and encourages volume production / economies of scale for Boeing, GE and Spirit sooner.

I see lots of advantages to Boeing here - I am not so clear what is the advantage to the airline. I see some but it looks asymmetric.
 
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:57 pm

StTim wrote:
I see lots of advantages to Boeing here - I am not so clear what is the advantage to the airline. I see some but it looks asymmetric.

How can you say that without knowing the details? Additional credits/discounts on things you were planning to purchase and retroactive credits sound valuable to me. Given that they, and many other airlines, have signed this kind of deal, I presume they see the advantages.
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par13del
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:14 pm

...also since they are in no position to use the new a/c, anything that allows them to delay with no penalty is great.
 
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:08 pm

par13del wrote:
...also since they are in no position to use the new a/c, anything that allows them to delay with no penalty is great.

Indeed, and since Boeing has so many to pull out of storage they don't need airlines to take them sooner than they want. Seems Boeing will restart production to get the ball rolling, then as soon as they have approval they will target stuff coming off the line to customers who want frames soonest (yes, some still do) then prioritize shipping the stored frames based on time to recondition and customer desire.
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889091
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:30 pm

Where is Boeing going to park these new frames? Pre Covid-19 they had already started using the staff car park.
 
KarlB737
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:46 pm

889091 wrote:
Where is Boeing going to park these new frames?


This is the best unanswered question of the week.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:51 pm

889091 wrote:
Where is Boeing going to park these new frames? Pre Covid-19 they had already started using the staff car park.


I'm sure they're starting by squeezing them as much as possible on land they already own or lease, and that is close to where they have operations to make in-storage maintenance, as well as preparation for delivery much easier. One source counted 250 parked at Moses Lake. Obviously there are a significant number in Renton and Seattle, and I know there were some going to San Antonio (Kelly Field?).

If they need to, they can lease land in other locations, perhaps including Mojave, Victorville, or Kingman.

But the production rates mentioned above indicate they would only accumulate about 60 more airframes by the time of return to service. As long as they can make delivery (and customers accept) of more than the number produced each month, the storage expenses will start to decline at that point.

oschkosch wrote:
According to German language media, TUI claims ca. 500 Million US$ in max related damages and Boeing is paying a large part of that over the next 2 years, plus additional credits on future purchases etc.


So about $7 million per aircraft, if spread out evenly over their whole order, or about $13,000 per day on the ground.

I wonder how that cost is actually divided up between grounded aircraft and delayed deliveries.The most simplistic extrapolation I can do with that number says $5 billion in total penalties for all the grounded or built and undelivered aircraft, but there's also a large number of aircraft yet to be built that will be late.

Getting those unbuilt aircraft ready to deliver changes the penalty picture significantly.

They also have the the workforce expense to consider. They need to retain those employees, and naturally it's better that the expenses of doing so build up inventory than simply go to waste.
 
StTim
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:29 am

I presume that until approved these new frames will be built to the existing MAX specification and so will require rework post any lifting of the grounding?
 
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ADent
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:51 am

They have to build to a documented configuration, so presumably rework will be required.

There were reports of them fixing the wire separation issue on some planes, so they should incorporate that during production.
 
StTim
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:58 am

I have another question - when they stopped production did they flush all the part worked frames through - or is the line stocked with frames in various stages of assembly?
 
pugman211
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:21 am

StTim wrote:
I have another question - when they stopped production did they flush all the part worked frames through - or is the line stocked with frames in various stages of assembly?


Iirc, the line was emptied. So I imagine it will all start from scratch again
 
morrisond
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:30 pm

Boeing is saying they expect the certification flight before the end of June.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/boeing- ... -june.html
 
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par13del
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:53 pm

I like the comment from the article, they should have told that to Boeing back in June-2019 when they sprung the bit flip on them, I have to see what bets I want to take on something new being bought up in the next test.

"Boeing, not the FAA, determines when the plane is ready for this critical step in getting the plane approved to fly. That said, the company has been in constant communication with the FAA and would not propose a recertification flight if it were not certain it would pass."
 
Aviator34ID
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:54 am

Whatever has happened in the past, all aviation enthusiasts will celebrate with Boeing when this aircraft takes to the skies again.
 
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qf789
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:57 pm

Could we please just discuss the topic without the flamebait and off topic comments
Forum Moderator
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:03 pm

So what happens after certification flight?
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:27 pm

Opus99 wrote:
So what happens after certification flight?

Change incorporation on the production line and training of customer pilots in simulators and on actual planes (can be done concurrently), and then change incorporation of stored planes.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:55 pm

This cannot be good news...fuselage production stopped. A major change needing to be made?

https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing ... bcZpCh6iz4
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:58 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
This cannot be good news...fuselage production stopped. A major change needing to be made?

https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing ... bcZpCh6iz4

Probably less design change and more Boeing is planning to produce fewer MAXes than initially anticipated (due to certification delays, Covid, or combination of both).
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 737MAX Grounding, General Discussion Thread, May 2020

Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:05 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
This cannot be good news...fuselage production stopped. A major change needing to be made?

https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing ... bcZpCh6iz4

I don’t think so because Boeing has already started implementing the changes on all the aircrafts they’ve built as well as sending out the steps to customers

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