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jetlanta
Posts: 1664
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:09 pm

tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:

All that back and forth network add out of MIA and SEA right before COVID struck is a pretty indication at the bad blood between DL and AA. And you can bet that if DL continues with its plans to expand at MIA, it will face retaliations from AA elsewhere (even with AA in economic difficulties).

Also, it's quite telling that DL is bringing back SEA faster than all their other coastal hubs. It looks to be 100% committed to a long term war at SEA with AS and AA.


I'm not saying DL and AA are on friendly terms. They're not. I'm just saying DL isn't making major network planning decisions (like opening a new focus city/gateway) based primarily on a rivalry. With the Latam partnership they see an opportunity in MIA to build their brand. That's what's driving this.


I guess what I'm saying is that I believe some of the more recent moves are due to their ongoing feud. They may be giving things higher priorities due to the recent events starting with LA.

viewtopic.php?p=22316741
I do tend to agree with this a little bit. I don't think some of these moves like AA re-inserting itself in BOS/AUS or DL sticking with MIA expansion if there isn't some of grudge match going on. Before this, seemed to me DL saved all its animosity for AS and B6.


It is not a feud. Can we stop acting like these people are petulant babies. It is competition. Each airline is making moves it thinks will make it more successful. Delta has wanted a MIA presence for years and years. Its not about AA. It is about DL.
 
kondoo
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:34 am

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:01 pm

jetlanta wrote:
tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I'm not saying DL and AA are on friendly terms. They're not. I'm just saying DL isn't making major network planning decisions (like opening a new focus city/gateway) based primarily on a rivalry. With the Latam partnership they see an opportunity in MIA to build their brand. That's what's driving this.


I guess what I'm saying is that I believe some of the more recent moves are due to their ongoing feud. They may be giving things higher priorities due to the recent events starting with LA.

viewtopic.php?p=22316741
I do tend to agree with this a little bit. I don't think some of these moves like AA re-inserting itself in BOS/AUS or DL sticking with MIA expansion if there isn't some of grudge match going on. Before this, seemed to me DL saved all its animosity for AS and B6.


It is not a feud. Can we stop acting like these people are petulant babies. It is competition. Each airline is making moves it thinks will make it more successful. Delta has wanted a MIA presence for years and years. Its not about AA. It is about DL.



ALL of this would make a lot of sense 5 months ago. Why would they want to be losing tons of money right now fighting each other (or in a few months) when they are trying to save money everywhere else by layoff people, etc.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4708
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:20 pm

jetlanta wrote:
tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I'm not saying DL and AA are on friendly terms. They're not. I'm just saying DL isn't making major network planning decisions (like opening a new focus city/gateway) based primarily on a rivalry. With the Latam partnership they see an opportunity in MIA to build their brand. That's what's driving this.


I guess what I'm saying is that I believe some of the more recent moves are due to their ongoing feud. They may be giving things higher priorities due to the recent events starting with LA.

viewtopic.php?p=22316741
I do tend to agree with this a little bit. I don't think some of these moves like AA re-inserting itself in BOS/AUS or DL sticking with MIA expansion if there isn't some of grudge match going on. Before this, seemed to me DL saved all its animosity for AS and B6.


It is not a feud. Can we stop acting like these people are petulant babies. It is competition. Each airline is making moves it thinks will make it more successful. Delta has wanted a MIA presence for years and years. Its not about AA. It is about DL.


:checkmark: :checkmark:

After reading some posters on here, one could be forgiven for thinking AA v. DL is just another season of Beverly Hills 90210!
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26253
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:19 pm

kondoo wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I guess what I'm saying is that I believe some of the more recent moves are due to their ongoing feud. They may be giving things higher priorities due to the recent events starting with LA.

viewtopic.php?p=22316741
I do tend to agree with this a little bit. I don't think some of these moves like AA re-inserting itself in BOS/AUS or DL sticking with MIA expansion if there isn't some of grudge match going on. Before this, seemed to me DL saved all its animosity for AS and B6.


It is not a feud. Can we stop acting like these people are petulant babies. It is competition. Each airline is making moves it thinks will make it more successful. Delta has wanted a MIA presence for years and years. Its not about AA. It is about DL.



ALL of this would make a lot of sense 5 months ago. Why would they want to be losing tons of money right now fighting each other (or in a few months) when they are trying to save money everywhere else by layoff people, etc.


Short term losses for long term gains. There is certainly an expectation that travel will swing back up in the next few years. I mean, that’s a given. We’ll probably be back to 2020 traffic levels in less than three years.
a.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:19 am

jetlanta wrote:
tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I'm not saying DL and AA are on friendly terms. They're not. I'm just saying DL isn't making major network planning decisions (like opening a new focus city/gateway) based primarily on a rivalry. With the Latam partnership they see an opportunity in MIA to build their brand. That's what's driving this.


I guess what I'm saying is that I believe some of the more recent moves are due to their ongoing feud. They may be giving things higher priorities due to the recent events starting with LA.

viewtopic.php?p=22316741
I do tend to agree with this a little bit. I don't think some of these moves like AA re-inserting itself in BOS/AUS or DL sticking with MIA expansion if there isn't some of grudge match going on. Before this, seemed to me DL saved all its animosity for AS and B6.


It is not a feud. Can we stop acting like these people are petulant babies. It is competition. Each airline is making moves it thinks will make it more successful. Delta has wanted a MIA presence for years and years. Its not about AA. It is about DL.


Delta wanting a Miami presence for years and years is because of it being the Latin American fortress city that it is. The reason it didn't set up tent there all this time was for four reasons: Eastern. American. Pan Am. And lack of Latin American feed of its own. (It would have had the latter had times been better and sunk 1.9B into a Pan Am South American division, with due respect to the brilliant legacy of Pan Am). Delta also expressed interest in Dallas and Miami during American's bankruptcy. So I would have to say Delta's Miami move is very much about American, in that American has and has had a strong position there (brand, facilities and network) ever since purchasing Delta's archrival's S.A. division. To put it another way: Delta is now playing in American's southern sandbox, but now has its own LATAM bully to protect it. (Sorry for keeping it in the petulant baby theme, but have to say that airline decision making is at least half that mentality, IMO, and is a bit why the airline industry can be so personal to us fans)!
 
Lootess
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:23 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
kondoo wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

It is not a feud. Can we stop acting like these people are petulant babies. It is competition. Each airline is making moves it thinks will make it more successful. Delta has wanted a MIA presence for years and years. Its not about AA. It is about DL.



ALL of this would make a lot of sense 5 months ago. Why would they want to be losing tons of money right now fighting each other (or in a few months) when they are trying to save money everywhere else by layoff people, etc.


Short term losses for long term gains. There is certainly an expectation that travel will swing back up in the next few years. I mean, that’s a given. We’ll probably be back to 2020 traffic levels in less than three years.


Yep, even WN's Gary Kelly admits this is a good time to plan on getting gains coming out of the pandemic. You still have to run a business and figure out how through the looking glass how to grow and make money after the payroll support ends. I just look back at what DL did at SEA with AS, they really didn't let their partnership stop them from growing domestically and they kindly brushed off each other as doing their own thing.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7369
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:26 am

TYWoolman wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I guess what I'm saying is that I believe some of the more recent moves are due to their ongoing feud. They may be giving things higher priorities due to the recent events starting with LA.

viewtopic.php?p=22316741
I do tend to agree with this a little bit. I don't think some of these moves like AA re-inserting itself in BOS/AUS or DL sticking with MIA expansion if there isn't some of grudge match going on. Before this, seemed to me DL saved all its animosity for AS and B6.


It is not a feud. Can we stop acting like these people are petulant babies. It is competition. Each airline is making moves it thinks will make it more successful. Delta has wanted a MIA presence for years and years. Its not about AA. It is about DL.


Delta wanting a Miami presence for years and years is because of it being the Latin American fortress city that it is. The reason it didn't set up tent there all this time was for four reasons: Eastern. American. Pan Am. And lack of Latin American feed of its own. (It would have had the latter had times been better and sunk 1.9B into a Pan Am South American division, with due respect to the brilliant legacy of Pan Am). Delta also expressed interest in Dallas and Miami during American's bankruptcy. So I would have to say Delta's Miami move is very much about American, in that American has and has had a strong position there (brand, facilities and network) ever since purchasing Delta's archrival's S.A. division. To put it another way: Delta is now playing in American's southern sandbox, but now has its own LATAM bully to protect it. (Sorry for keeping it in the petulant baby theme, but have to say that airline decision making is at least half that mentality, IMO, and is a bit why the airline industry can be so personal to us fans)!


Why is Delta so in love with Miami, 30 years ago they didn't fly from ATL to South America, in 1996 an MD-11 flight to GRU started changing that. Delta now flies to all major cities and shows not flying to Miami is viable. People have this "Miami" mentality, the MIA airport sucks and should be avoided unless your destination is Miami. Delta should leave the Miami flying to LATAM and try to have the bulk of the connecting traffic over ATL, how cool would it be if the LATAM Star Wars 777 flew to ATL regularly.

LATAM should also have its own flights to Atlanta in parallel with Delta from Sao Paulo, Lima and Santiago. For this JV to work well, LATAM has to fly outside the Miami & JFK "comfort zone" so many Latin airlines stick too. IF Delta flew A330's from Miami to Latin America that would really choke AA, so lets see who flinches first.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:44 am

jfk777 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

It is not a feud. Can we stop acting like these people are petulant babies. It is competition. Each airline is making moves it thinks will make it more successful. Delta has wanted a MIA presence for years and years. Its not about AA. It is about DL.


Delta wanting a Miami presence for years and years is because of it being the Latin American fortress city that it is. The reason it didn't set up tent there all this time was for four reasons: Eastern. American. Pan Am. And lack of Latin American feed of its own. (It would have had the latter had times been better and sunk 1.9B into a Pan Am South American division, with due respect to the brilliant legacy of Pan Am). Delta also expressed interest in Dallas and Miami during American's bankruptcy. So I would have to say Delta's Miami move is very much about American, in that American has and has had a strong position there (brand, facilities and network) ever since purchasing Delta's archrival's S.A. division. To put it another way: Delta is now playing in American's southern sandbox, but now has its own LATAM bully to protect it. (Sorry for keeping it in the petulant baby theme, but have to say that airline decision making is at least half that mentality, IMO, and is a bit why the airline industry can be so personal to us fans)!


Why is Delta so in love with Miami, 30 years ago they didn't fly from ATL to South America, in 1996 an MD-11 flight to GRU started changing that. Delta now flies to all major cities and shows not flying to Miami is viable. People have this "Miami" mentality, the MIA airport sucks and should be avoided unless your destination is Miami. Delta should leave the Miami flying to LATAM and try to have the bulk of the connecting traffic over ATL, how cool would it be if the LATAM Star Wars 777 flew to ATL regularly.

LATAM should also have its own flights to Atlanta in parallel with Delta from Sao Paulo, Lima and Santiago. For this JV to work well, LATAM has to fly outside the Miami & JFK "comfort zone" so many Latin airlines stick too. IF Delta flew A330's from Miami to Latin America that would really choke AA, so lets see who flinches first.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:51 am

Delta's original plan with Latam is a dual hub strategy: Atlanta and Miami, for pretty much the reasons you mentioned. Sure they made Atlanta work, but a Miami presense broadens the network, while going directly after a little of American's traffic.
 
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LAXintl
Topic Author
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Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:51 pm

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Trippe747
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:22 pm

Re: Delta-LATAM sign JV Agreement

Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:57 pm

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