BN727227Ultra wrote:

Has there been any movement on coordination between these carriers? I was curious to see if DL will try to make some effort to ramp up MIA, or LATAM doing the same in ATL or even DTW.

Thanks!

On the contrary, LA’s first priority at the moment seems to be to sue DL and QR for the cancelled A350 orders.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptc ... xed-planes

“Latam Airlines Group SA creditors are trying to sue Delta Air Lines Inc. and Qatar Airways QCSC, alleging they ripped off Latam in the run-up to bankruptcy.”

onwFan wrote:

BN727227Ultra wrote:

Has there been any movement on coordination between these carriers? I was curious to see if DL will try to make some effort to ramp up MIA, or LATAM doing the same in ATL or even DTW.

Thanks!

On the contrary, LA’s first priority at the moment seems to be to sue DL and QR for the cancelled A350 orders.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptc ... xed-planes

“Latam Airlines Group SA creditors are trying to sue Delta Air Lines Inc. and Qatar Airways QCSC, alleging they ripped off Latam in the run-up to bankruptcy.”

Not sure I understand your point. It says LATAM's creditors, not LATAM - but you say it is LATAM themselves... is there something I missed? Can't read the article unless I pay I guess.

ALTF4 wrote:

onwFan wrote:

BN727227Ultra wrote:

Has there been any movement on coordination between these carriers? I was curious to see if DL will try to make some effort to ramp up MIA, or LATAM doing the same in ATL or even DTW.

Thanks!

On the contrary, LA’s first priority at the moment seems to be to sue DL and QR for the cancelled A350 orders.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptc ... xed-planes

“Latam Airlines Group SA creditors are trying to sue Delta Air Lines Inc. and Qatar Airways QCSC, alleging they ripped off Latam in the run-up to bankruptcy.”

Not sure I understand your point. It says LATAM's creditors, not LATAM - but you say it is LATAM themselves... is there something I missed? Can't read the article unless I pay I guess.

It is the creditors indeed who are suing, but it said 'on LATAM's behalf' - don't know what LATAM's stand is, they've declined to comment.

I have a hard time believing the current LATAM board has any beef with Delta or Qatar. The creditors might be mad though, but that's how these things roll when bankruptcy comes around, they can say on-behalf because they are owed money.

onwFan wrote:

ALTF4 wrote:

onwFan wrote:

On the contrary, LA’s first priority at the moment seems to be to sue DL and QR for the cancelled A350 orders.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptc ... xed-planes

“Latam Airlines Group SA creditors are trying to sue Delta Air Lines Inc. and Qatar Airways QCSC, alleging they ripped off Latam in the run-up to bankruptcy.”

Not sure I understand your point. It says LATAM's creditors, not LATAM - but you say it is LATAM themselves... is there something I missed? Can't read the article unless I pay I guess.

It is the creditors indeed who are suing, but it said 'on LATAM's behalf' - don't know what LATAM's stand is, they've declined to comment.

That's just how bankruptcy proceedings work, but make no mistake, its on the creditors' behalf. The creditors are effectively accusing LATAM management of fraud.

All things considered, I believe LATAM decided to leave oneworld at, possibly, the worst time ever.

onwFan wrote:

BN727227Ultra wrote:

Has there been any movement on coordination between these carriers? I was curious to see if DL will try to make some effort to ramp up MIA, or LATAM doing the same in ATL or even DTW.

Thanks!

On the contrary, LA’s first priority at the moment seems to be to sue DL and QR for the cancelled A350 orders.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptc ... xed-planes

“Latam Airlines Group SA creditors are trying to sue Delta Air Lines Inc. and Qatar Airways QCSC, alleging they ripped off Latam in the run-up to bankruptcy.”

A bit of a stretch to say LA is suing DL. It's LA's creditors..

Delta-LATAM summitted update to their JV-ATI request.

Much of their updated pleadings is persuading parties that the JV will be pro-consumer and will allow airlines to add capacity, introduce new routes and provide only effective competitive challenge to AA including plans to make MIA a key gateway for the partners.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0105-0022

Chilean National Economic Prosecutor’s Office submitted to the Chilean Competition Court an out-of-court settlement containing a set of remedies offered jointly by LATAM and Delta to safeguard competition. No real details about what the agreed remedies are.

https://www.fne.gob.cl/en/fne-delta-y-l ... erolineas/

Following the out-of-court agreement between Delta, LATAM & Chile's National Economic Prosecutor's Office, Chile's Court for the Defense of Free Competition has green lighted the JV between the two airlines. This is the same court that rejected the JV between LATAM, AA and IAG. Brazil, Colombia and Uruguay had already approved the JV, the US still needs to do so.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/10/ch ... m-y-delta/

wowowowo. after so much drama for the better part of a decade, LATAM has finally gotten Chile on board with a JV between the two continents and a major US carrier.

interesting that Canada - Chile is also included in the scope. LAN (and TAM) have repeatedly tried, and failed, to serve Toronto, ill-advisedly as a tag-on from JFK, while Air Canada has flown nonstop from Toronto to Santiago for decades.

also, interesting note in the document concerning the AeroMéxico risk.

Delta and LATAM expand their codesharing.

https://news.delta.com/delta-and-latam- ... th-america

DOT on Thursday issued tentative approval for the proposed ATI subject to a few conditions mostly related to ensuring the JV partners offer interline and codeshare access for unaligned carriers under the same commercial terms and availability, along with carriers restoring their networks to pre-pandemic levels and pursuing their promised consumer benefit via the network growth they envisaged in their application.

OST-2020-0105
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0105-0054

Those contingencies pretty much guarantee an expanded Miami presence, I would imagine.

TYWoolman wrote:

Those contingencies pretty much guarantee an expanded Miami presence, I would imagine.

I would agree, considering the condition requires the JV to meet its promises, including: "Provide new or expanded service on at least 18 nonstop routes."

Article with details.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... -approval/

And yes, DL will end up growing MIA based on the arguments it made in the JV application.

From the link in post directly above: "The remedies include the maintenance of current third-party interline agreements; the removal of exclusivity provisions that prohibit or limit Delta or LATAM from engaging in a business relationship with another carrier; a 10-year expiration and reassessment requirement; and the removal of a capacity constraint clause, which “artificially limits growth during the initial stages of the proposed relationship.”

Wonder what existing interline agreements are in place and in what markets?
Wonder if removal of exclusivity provisions sets a new precedent?
Wonder if removal of capacity constraint clause will affect any recent pilot grievance settlement pertaining to JV's?

Delta and Latam accept DOT JV conditions, pilots object to one item (removal of capacity constraint clause that Delta pilot's argue favors Latam flying rather than JV flying that can also include Delta). Astute move!

https://simpleflying.com/delta-latam-do ... onditions/

US DOT approves joint venture
https://news.delta.com/delta-and-latam- ... g-americas

Link to DOT order, and details on conditions imposed on the JV

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0105-0066

This could really be the only true threat to AA from MIA. All DL needs to add are flights to Central America and some domestic feed. After that, LATAM covers South America and AM covers Mexico. They will never be AA, but they will certainly be a a strong competitor.

So far with the JV, we have the following new routes/resumptions announced:
1) LA LAX-GRU
2) LA MCO-BOG
3) DL JFK-GIG (pre-COVID resumption)
4) Frequency increases on LIM-MIA/LAX/JFK, SCL-LAX, GRU-MCO (this was announced with LAX-GRU)
What do you think will be next?

When will we see a LATAM plane in Atlanta ? LATAM sticks to MIA, JFK & LAX, where is the synergy with Delta with that ?

rjbesikof wrote:

So far with the JV, we have the following new routes/resumptions announced:
1) LA LAX-GRU
2) LA MCO-BOG
3) DL JFK-GIG (pre-COVID resumption)
4) Frequency increases on LIM-MIA/LAX/JFK, SCL-LAX, GRU-MCO (this was announced with LAX-GRU)
What do you think will be next?

I get it we are still in a quasi pandemic affected world but LATAM is no where near what they were before with AA. Remember they had a daylight JFK-GRU flight plus a year round (I believe) JFK-GIG. DL’s JFK-GIG is like for two months in peace Christmas to carnival time (which is just using a plane during low travel to EU). Not really thinking they have pushed the envelope with the JV. But again Covid….

CaliguyNYC wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

So far with the JV, we have the following new routes/resumptions announced:
1) LA LAX-GRU
2) LA MCO-BOG
3) DL JFK-GIG (pre-COVID resumption)
4) Frequency increases on LIM-MIA/LAX/JFK, SCL-LAX, GRU-MCO (this was announced with LAX-GRU)
What do you think will be next?

I get it we are still in a quasi pandemic affected world but LATAM is no where near what they were before with AA. Remember they had a daylight JFK-GRU flight plus a year round (I believe) JFK-GIG. DL’s JFK-GIG is like for two months in peace Christmas to carnival time (which is just using a plane during low travel to EU). Not really thinking they have pushed the envelope with the JV. But again Covid….

Not just COVID, but LATAM's bankruptcy where they shed a lot of aircraft.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

So far with the JV, we have the following new routes/resumptions announced:
1) LA LAX-GRU
2) LA MCO-BOG
3) DL JFK-GIG (pre-COVID resumption)
4) Frequency increases on LIM-MIA/LAX/JFK, SCL-LAX, GRU-MCO (this was announced with LAX-GRU)
What do you think will be next?

I get it we are still in a quasi pandemic affected world but LATAM is no where near what they were before with AA. Remember they had a daylight JFK-GRU flight plus a year round (I believe) JFK-GIG. DL’s JFK-GIG is like for two months in peace Christmas to carnival time (which is just using a plane during low travel to EU). Not really thinking they have pushed the envelope with the JV. But again Covid….

LATAM closed their GIG hub well before COVID but DL actually flew a winter only JFKGIG (with a daytime GIGJFK flight) pre-COVID so it is really just a resumption for them.